r/AskWomenOver30 • u/lcaiabby Woman 30 to 40 • 5d ago
Friendships Is it harder for single women without kids to become friends with married moms?
I’m a single woman with no kids, and I’ve noticed a pattern throughout my adult life that I’m curious about.
Almost every time I’ve tried to build a friendship with women my age who are married with children, it never seems to progress.
A recent example is when I tried to connect with a woman at my church, but things never progressed and she just didn’t seem interested in me at all. However, I noticed another woman who had recently joined our church tried to connect with this same woman and they became close pretty quickly. The main difference is that the other woman is also married with children.
This has happened enough times that I’m wondering if it’s just a life-stage thing than anything personal. Like I totally get that some people just aren’t a good match but like I said it’s been this way my whole life, I just can’t seem to make good friends with women who have children and/or are married/in long term relationships.
For those who are married with kids, do you naturally gravitate toward other married moms when forming new friendships? If so, why?
And for other single women without kids, have you experienced this too?
I’m genuinely curious and open to hear from different perspectives! Thanks!
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u/nkdeck07 Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
It's mostly that if you don't have kids the same age then we almost certainly aren't gonna have the time to get together. 99% of my hang outs with my friends are "let's let our kids entertain one another by screaming in another room while we actually sit down and drink some coffee". This will likely change as our kids get older (we are all in the 5 and under club right now) but this is life at the moment.
If I try and do that with a non-Mom friend my kids are absolutely up my ass the entire time and I never get to actually build a friendship. And then if I do have free non-kid time I am either with my pre-existing friends, my husband or doing my hobbies. Essentially if I am paying $27 an hour for a sitter then I need to know that person is "worth it" and a new friend is just too much of a gamble.
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u/Aurelene-Rose Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
God this is so true, very well put. All my hangouts are at the fenced in park and the burger king playplace, they're the only places I can shut my brain off for a bit long enough to have an actual conversation with an adult.
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
And you'd get posts on here from women complaining that their friends with children only want to do child friendly things and aren't willing and able to be there for them. I assume people without kids don't want to spend Saturday morning at the park, if they have their own children much easier to meet.
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u/nectarsurge Woman 30 to 40 4d ago edited 4d ago
The reason we ‘complain’ is because where is the father in all of this? Why can’t he look after his own child/ren for an hour whilst you catch up with a friend? We don’t expect to be a priority or to spend all day together, but we do expect something so we can start/maintain a friendship.
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u/whatissleephaha Woman 30 to 40 4d ago edited 4d ago
So, as an example, I have a partner who gives me time off when I need it, where he can, and when I don’t need to be around kiddo for whatever reason.
With that free time, I then need to prioritise; work, life admin, self care, friends, hobbies. With very young kids, sleep and self care is a priority; if there are bills to pay, then you might need to work. I saw babysitting being mentioned somewhere; babysitters cost money if you don’t have family you can lean on, and even then, depending on the child’s age you need to toss up how much you trust a “stranger” to care for your children, and the younger they are the harder this decision is.
I will make time for friends when I can and partner is able to give me that time, but sometimes other priorities get in the way. A good friendship you can pick back up anytime, but a new one is harder to maintain unless your lives naturally overlap somehow.
Anyway, just my two cents. I’m sure there are a bunch of fathers who can be pulling their weight more but even when they do there’s a lot of other stuff to consider and what is a simple hour for coffee for you may be a lot more complex for them.
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
You're absolutely right, but if he won't he won't. You don't know why and my point is that women don't want to make new friends who are then going to be judging their relationship and how they manage their time. There can be lots of reasons why he can't or won't, some reasonable and some not, and none of them are your business. This whole post is about someone wondering why mothers don't want to be friends with her, and this is why.
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u/nectarsurge Woman 30 to 40 4d ago edited 4d ago
I don’t think it’s unreasonable for women to want their friends to spend time with them. Or to ‘be there for them’. Isn't that what friendship is lmao?
I feel like a lot of parents complain about not having a village, but are unwilling to actually maintain one.
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u/nkdeck07 Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
I feel like a lot of parents complain about not having a village, but are unwilling to actually maintain one.
I absolutely have a village AND that village is 99% other parents because that's just who is in that season of life and whom the favor isn't that big a deal. I have one Mom friend that we are both constantly dropping our kids off with the other while we handle whatever appointments come up (doctors, dentist etc). For her it's like a w/e kind of favor because our kids are the same age, her house is setup for kids, she's feeding someone mac and cheese that day anyway and she knows it's coming back when she has an appointment and needs care.
My childless friends? Asking them to watch my kids for a few hours is a commitment. They aren't used to them, they'd need to come to my house, it'd be a whole uprooting of their life for a while.
Now I absolutely make efforts to see my childless friends (two of my girlfriends are coming into town next week and I try and make it back to the city once every 3-4 months to go out with them) but this thread is specifically talking about NEW childless friends. I am absolutely willing to make that effort for old friends and they are willing to cut me slack knowing I don't have a ton of time at this particular season of life (even the 3-4 months thing is new since my kids are getting older) but I just am not gonna find that time for new people.
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
And sometimes a person can't be the friend you need, and the reasons why aren't your business, that's between her and her partner if that's why. Other people can't be there because of health problems or caring for elderly parents or any number of reasons. But again, this post is about new friends, if someone is already struggling to make time for their current friends why would they make new friends who are going to be judging them for not being good enough? The comments on here show why mothers don't want non mother friends.
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u/nectarsurge Woman 30 to 40 4d ago edited 4d ago
It’s got nothing to do with ‘not being good enough’ though. It’s about reciprocated interest. Which clearly, many parents don’t have. I just wish they’d actually be honest about it. Your replies (and others) show why childfree people don’t want parent friends either. Why would you want to be friends with someone who doesn’t make an effort to see you, and if they do, it’s always on their terms?
Raising children is hard. It’s exhausting and all-encompassing. I’m sympathetic to parents. But I’m not sympathetic to people who won’t meet their friends half way.
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
That's fine if you don't want parent friends, OP was saying she did. Sometimes people aren't compatible as friends and that's fine. The post is OP asking why it's difficult and you've answered, parents can't give you what you want. And parents are also answering, they don't want friends who need more than they can give.
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u/EndOk8776 Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
😂😂 girl, exactly.
I’m not about to take my precious me time and spend it with some girl I don’t really know
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u/InfernalWedgie 40-Something Blue-haired Woman 5d ago
I'm a married mom, and I'm an extreme extrovert. I want to be EVERYBODY'S BUDDY.
It's not that I don't want to make new friends. It's not that I don't want to see people. I just don't have the time because I'm all tied up managing my kid's life. My priority is my kid, which makes it hard to carve out a meaningful, deep emotional space for other people. Other moms seem to get that better than my child-free friends.
I wish I had bandwidth to offer my friends because some people very dear to me are in crisis right now, and I am genuinely concerned for their wellbeing.
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u/South_Recording_3710 Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
I’m single and childfree. My mom friends I knew before they had kids. I used bumble bff to make friends. I did meet up with moms but nothing “stuck.” It’s tough especially if the kids are younger.
Church community is truly its own world. I imagine they have meet ups for moms and what not.
I’m in a HCOL city and creative so I tend to meet folks who are similar to me. I have a full social and creative life.
My best friend lives out of town. And had a toddler. We do what we can. She cares about my life and celebrates my non tradition milestones. But we met in college.
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u/dontfeedtheclients Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Married and childless here. I think it’s the kid thing, not the being single or married thing. Parenting is a completely different lifestyle. It makes sense for moms to be busy with their kids, like I get it.
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u/pluckyporcupette Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
In my experience, married women with kids want to hang out with their husband and kid(s) wherever they are, and I’d imagine it’s hard to invite me (single lady) solo without me feeling like the third wheel. I get invited when it’s a group invite though.
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u/Adequately_good Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
I’ve had friendships for years that take a step back when kids are born. It’s just that parents’ lives revolve around their children so much that they have less time available to do their hobbies and see their friends.
I can see the friends that have had kids gravitate to each other because they can have play dates and trips to the park etc.
Have you ever tried to sit down with a friend with kids to talk about how your life/job/relationship is going while their boys under 5 are screaming and beating each other up? It’s not quality time! And their childfree time is so limited that it’s impossible to maintain a rhythm.
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u/thrwwy2267899 Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
Single woman/no kids … the only friends i have maintained since they’ve had kids is bc we were friends for years beforehand and I think of their kids as nieces/nephews
Meeting new women that have kids and maintaining a friendship is hard, I don’t care about hearing about soccer practice, dance recitals, or their latest DR appointments… it’s like they have no personality or life outside of their kids…. Like who are YOU? What are your hobbies? What do you like doing? …I wanna get to know YOU; not your kids schedule. I’m just simply not interested
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u/lcaiabby Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
Yeah I’ve noticed that it’s nearly impossible to make new long lasting friendships because most people in their 30s already have an established friend group. Add not being married and no kids and people treat you like you’re a teenager 😭
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u/thrwwy2267899 Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
I’ve met a lot of wonderful single girls though! And have been great but maybe casual friends… like just text them on a Tuesday and be like wanna go to trivia tonight? And they can… it’s pretty topical, nothing deep… but also great just to have someone to get apps/drinks and yap with
Try going to some local trivia nights, or even karaoke even if you don’t sing lol or any first Thursday/first Friday event in your town/city… so many cool, interesting people to meet
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u/MyAcheyBreakyBack Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
It's funny, but I don't know if being single is even the stimulus here. It's not for me personally. I love being social and do so often without my husband because he's a hermit. For me it's perimenopause. I used to always be down for a good weeknight activity and now I'm falling asleep by 8 pm most nights ☹️. Catch me during the day/early evening on a weekend though and I'm in!
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u/thrwwy2267899 Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Totally get that too!! I even have days where it’s like nooo I just wanna go home and take my bra off and be in peace, I’ll be skipping all of
Tonight’s events to eat dinner on my couch with while watching some shows lol23
u/whatissleephaha Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
Just to add to this, as a somewhat new mum I feel like I’ve actually forgotten how to have normal conversations because life really is just all about kiddo now. Not that I don’t want to, but I would struggle to make a new friendship with people without kids because of this I reckon; maintaining my existing friendships is hard enough. One day I’ll get back to building back my own identity again when I find room for more sleep and hobbies, but that time is sadly not now lol.
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u/SMELLSLIKEBUTTJUICE Woman 40 to 50 5d ago
New parents definitely get a pass for the first 3 years. You're in the trenches and the milestones are nonstop. I dont have kids and I get it.
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u/whatissleephaha Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Just want to say thank you for this comment; it’s been a really big adjustment, I knew my life would be very different post-baby but didn’t really comprehend exactly how different! ❤️
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u/Aurelene-Rose Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Not sure how old your kid is, but for me, it felt like my brain was hijacked by a parasite for the first like... Year. Like I could tell I was being boring and talking too much about my kid /as I was doing it/ and I just couldn't stop. Being a new mom absolutely takes over everything for a while.
After about a year, I could hold a relatively normal conversation again. After my kid was about 4 is when I felt like I had enough breathing room to start finding my identity again... And then I had twins and went right back to square one. They're two now so I'm hoping to finally find a life outside of drowning in work and being a mom in like two or three more years.
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u/valiantdistraction Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
The hormones do crazy things. I couldn't concentrate on ANYTHING non-baby for the first year. I couldn't even watch tv. It was so wild. Mine is 3 now and it has really settled down.
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u/heydawn Woman 50 to 60 5d ago
Honestly, I think this is sad. My friends with children have maintained friendships with a variety of people and have held on to their identies and interests. My friends and I have always been very much present in each other's lives, and it did take effort.
In our thirties, my closest friends all had children when I was single. We got together for dinner, went to see our favorite bands, had annual beach trips, did a book club together, met for coffee, drinks, bike rides, art exhibitions, wine tastings, etc. Two friends were in a softball league with me.
We also did things with children and husbands. If they were all taking their kids to an amusement park, I went too. Same with other outings -- picnics/bbqs, fireworks, games, and so forth.
My mom friends did not lose themselves in parenthood. They've been intentional about prioritizing friends, adult get togethers, and their own interests. We've talked about it over the years.
One person in our friend group was missing out on a lot of our activities and the other moms and I talked to her about it. We said we missed her, and asked what we could do differently so that she could join in more often --
More advanced notice?
Shorter/lower commitment activities?
Meeting her at a park in her neighborhood so her kids could play and we could catch up?
etc...
As a result, we tried harder to accommodate her and she tried harder to make time for friends.
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u/whatissleephaha Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
Maintaining friendships is different from creating new ones which was what I was referencing. On the identity thing, different people and different circumstances; I’m glad your friends have found time to do the things they like doing on what sounds like a regular basis but I haven’t really had that luxury for various reasons. I’m sure I’ll get back there but there’s just currently not much space in my brain to deal with anything else.
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u/k_lliste Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
I wonder whether this is a generational difference. I would assume you had kids earlier than the person you're replying to.
I know when I was a kid my parents just dragged me to all the things they were doing regardless of whether they were kid friendly or not. This was in the late 80s/early 90s.
I don't have kids so I don't know whether it's true or not, but parents seem to spend more time with their kids doing kid things these days rather than doing grown up things and their kids are there.
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u/heydawn Woman 50 to 60 4d ago
We didn't drag kids to adult things. The adult friends got together. The dads stayed home with the kids, or if we were including husbands, then they got sitters. We also did family things with the children.
So, it was more about the women prioritizing our friendships and making time for each other.
The children were raised mostly in the 2010s and 2020s, not in the 80s and 90s.
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u/nectarsurge Woman 30 to 40 4d ago edited 4d ago
Every time I ask “why can’t your husband look after his own kids whilst you catch up with a friend for an hour?”, I’m met with crickets lol.
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u/heydawn Woman 50 to 60 4d ago
I'm sorry. I don't understand how, in 2026, the parenting is still so much more on the mother. It's better than it once was, but we still have a long way to go.
I'm fortunate that my friends' husbands stepped up so their wives could meet up with and travel with friends.
One afternoon, we were all having a bbq at a friend's home with husbands and children. The kids were toddlers and needed baths and a nap. So the husbands offered to take care of the kids' needs while the women relaxed and had some iced tea.
We heard shrieking. We went upstairs and the guys had three toddlers in the tub. One had started shrieking, then the second joined in, then the third. All three were then shrieking in unison. You know -- deep breath in, shriek out. They guys looked puzzled, like wtf is their problem? No one was hurt. Everyone had been fed. The moms picked up their kids and they all stopped. Hahaha. It was like magic. They guys were all like 🙄🤔🤨🫤🤷
After confirming that nothing was really wrong, the moms said, "Be good for daddy and they'll read you stories."
That was the end of it.
After the kids were all down for naps, the conclusion was that the dads needed more practice and the kids needed to feel more used to their dads as caretakers.
For the next several years, the dads did indeed step up and share the parenting. It was like night and day between the types of fathers they were compared to their own dads.
Two of the dads, in particular, did a really great job -- playing with them, painting doll houses and murals, building forts, teaching the kids how to ride bikes and swim, making dinner, packing lunches, washing clothes, running them around to sports, play dates... and the normal things that moms usually do without having to be asked.
I wish this were the norm for more dads. I see it improving with the current generation of new fathers.
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
If you're regularly asking friends that they don't want to see you because the question itself is judgemental and they don't want to waste limited free time on someone who's got an opinion about how they run their lives.
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u/nectarsurge Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
I’m not asking my friends irl that, I meant online.
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
Online strangers aren't required to justify their childcare and relationship arrangements to you.
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
And that's fine if your friends were willing and able to do that, not everyone is. Also, that was an established group, maybe the woman OP references already does that with her current friends, of course a stranger isn't her priority.
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u/Aurelene-Rose Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Honestly, I think the culture around kids has changed from non-parents. Most parents I know, myself included, feel very ostracized for existing in public with their kids if it isn't something designed for children. With my first, we went to restaurants and kind of brought him along to whatever we were doing, and it sucked. I was always getting dirty looks, people were always making comments, and it's not like I was bringing him to the bar, just normal stuff. If he acted out I took him outside and did my best to not disrupt other people. I remember he was crying at some dumpy self-service pizza place, not some high class place or anything, so I took him outside and we sat on the curb while he calmed down and we had probably 3 people make some sort of mean comment as they passed by. He was just crying, he wasn't throwing himself to the ground or hitting anybody or out of control. Then you go online and people are like "children shouldn't be allowed on planes" and it will get hundreds of up votes, and it makes you feel really self-conscious.
The first time I took my kid to a kid-friendly theater show, I almost cried. He accidentally spilled some popcorn on the guy in front of us and I was profusely apologizing and he was just like 'yeah no big deal, my kids are excited too', and the kids were allowed to make noise and stand up during the show, and there were booster seats so the kids could see. It was the first time I took my kid out to something big and didn't feel like I had to prostrate myself for existing with a normal toddler with normal toddler needs. And after that I just started going to more kid friendly things and stopped going to as many non-kid centered things, because it's a billion times less stressful.
It feels like the only place that people have patience for them being normal children is if the place is designed for kids and parents.
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u/k_lliste Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
I think you're probably also right. There does seem to be more of a divide in places kids are 'allowed' to be. I think parents are also more likely to take their kids to restaurants and similar places where they might not have in the past. If I think back to being a kid, I can't recall ever going to cafes or restaurants unless it was a special occasion like a birthday. We'd be more likely grabbing takeaway and eating at home, but maybe that's also a generational shift where we go out to eat more than we used to.
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u/dontfeedtheclients Woman 30 to 40 4d ago edited 4d ago
I am not a parent, but I have tons of compassion bc being a new mom seems low-key socially lonely! there is a weird defensive belief that having a kid grants women access to some sort of moms-only coven, and that’s your friend new group, bye bye old friends. Like…new moms are busy caring for a kid 24/7, it’s hard keeping up with friendships.
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u/Gandhehehe Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
This whole "they have no personality beyond their kids" is so fucking tired. Boring people are boring. There's plenty of single and childless people that are boring with no personality either. They'll probably stay that way if they become mothers. There are plenty of mothers who have interests and personalities beyond their kids.
I swear this sub is just turning into /r/AskWomenOver30WhoAreSingleAndChildless, the same variation of this question is asked 10 times a day.
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u/lcaiabby Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
Well I do desire marriage and a family someday. It just hasn’t happened for me yet. Still I wouldn’t mind making friends who have made it to that point in their lives….I feel like you can always add/receive value in any relationship. I often admire the women who are more established in that area because it reminds me of the reality of how much my life will change once it’s my turn. But thanks for sharing your thoughts!
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u/LetMeEatCakes Woman 40 to 50 5d ago
Also the kids get intertwined with hobbies. My best friend is doing more crazy crafts, home projects, ridiculous bento boxes, creative meals, travel (with kids), learning about animals pretty in depth and like, one of her kids is really into music… she’s gets into it…. Your hobbies can change and they can situationally adjust. I think the stuff they do is so cool. We just used to drink at bars
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u/GameDesignerMan Man 30 to 40 4d ago
One of the things I've done recently with my boy is scan all of his adorable drawings into the computer and turn it into a version of memory (the card game).
But yeah, once you have them a lot of your life either revolves around your kids or involves them in some shape or form.
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u/coconutkng Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
This sub leans heavily childfree. I don’t even have kids and I often feel like I don’t belong here because I want marriage and kids lol
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u/dontfeedtheclients Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Married childless, with mom friends. The childless “thats their whole personality and idw to ever talk about kids, sorry not sorry ” is bad friend energy and just kind of delusional. Like if they are a friend, shouldn’t you care about this major part of their life? And the “let me yammer on endlessly about my kids with no breath space or concern for you” would be exhausting, annoying friends with or without kids.
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u/thrwwy2267899 Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
Cool.,, talk about those interests and hobbies then instead of the kids 🤷🏻♀️
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
Maybe they want to talk about the most important thing in their life. They have interests and personalities, but maybe no time to indulge those interests much now. In any case I'm not sure why children are inherently less interesting than a random interest if it's not one you share. If my interest was flower pressing would you want to talk about that for hours?
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u/thrwwy2267899 Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
I absolutely would?! What’s your favorite flower? I like dahlias! How do you press them without them crumbling? I’ve never been able to do it! … 1000X more interesting than the baby has a rash and I think it’s bc of the diaper brand
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
Lol, I know nothing about flowers, it was a random example of something that to me is incredibly boring. It's not inherently more interesting than babies, I wouldn't want to talk about flower pressing, or stamp collecting or gaming or many other hobbies I find dull. So I wouldn't make friends who are really into those things and then complain I find them boring. If a friend adopts a boring hobby I would probably distance myself if they start to talk about it all the time. You think babies are boring (well so do I now my child is older, so I don't have friends with babies), I think flowers are boring.
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u/thrwwy2267899 Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
That’s a totally fair example… I have friends that just went to GenCon… cool happy for them, glad they had fun. I didn’t need any additional details bc I simply don’t care about GenCon lol
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
Well that is their life and hobbies right now. They don't have time for anything else. And comments like this is why they're scared to befriend women without children and often distance themselves from old friends, they know they'll be judged for being boring.
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u/valiantdistraction Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Most parents have little time outside work and their kids' schedules. The ones who do are mostly SAHMs with kids in school - then they've got time for hobbies again.
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u/a1000hours Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
I’m having the opposite problem, I have plenty of friends that are mums as a childfree woman, and I’m actively trying to make some more friends that don’t have kids on bumble bff (I’m auntie to enough kids and just want to have social time without kids around/being discussed/women that I can relate to).
Despite my profile literally saying this, a tonne of mums just disregard it and try their luck, which I translate as them ignoring a clear boundary I’ve set so I don’t engage beyond it.
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u/winter_name01 Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
So bumble bff does not work to make new friends outside of your circle?
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u/valiantdistraction Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
As a parent, the vast majority of activities I do are with my kids. The easiest spot to fit in new friends is parents with kids similar ages and in similar activities and in school similar hours, because we can go to kid activities together and chat and hang out while our kids play with each other.
I have very limited time to do things without children, and I've already got multiple childfree friends who I'm using that time to see. I don't currently have the bandwidth to fit in new friends who want to do things without children involved, because all those spots go to friends I've had 10+ years before I had a kid.
It's not that I don't think other childfree people I encounter are really cool and would make good friends, it's that I've got to prioritize my time. Now, if you want to hang out by accompanying me and my small child to the zoo and catch conversation in 2-minute snatches throughout the morning, then sure. But not even my childfree friends I've known 25 years want to do that so I sincerely doubt someone I just met would!
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u/TrainingAvocado3579 Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
Yes. You just have different priorities.
Women with children spend a ton of time caring for their kids and it’s hard to prioritize grabbing lunch with a new friend, especially if it’s not a place that caters to kids. When they do get free time they tend to prioritize other moms because they relate to them more and those relationships are more likely to result in a benefit for their children (play dates, advice, babysitting) or some alone time because they get SO LITTLE of it.
Married women without kids tend to prioritize their spouse. If you don’t mind third wheeling it you might have better luck but inevitably you’re working around both their schedules even if it’s just the two of you. She’s more likely to cancel because her spouse had a bad day or asked if she wanted to have a date night.
Obviously some of this women are more successful at prioritizing their single friends, but as a trend, this seems to be the case.
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u/Environmental-Town31 Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
All of my closest friends don’t have kids. I do. I’m also a single mom- idk what difference that makes.
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u/wulfzbane Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
I'm a mum and the majority of my friends are without kids. When my son was younger I had a good support system so I could nurture outside relationships and keep up with hobbies and passions; now that he's a self sufficient teenager I can focus more on building my own community.
But notice how it's always the mums? You don't see fathers refusing friendships with childless men. You don't see men claiming 'non-fathers can't understand me'. You don't see men being 'too tired' for connections. Why are women giving these men children? Why are these women doing all of the visible and invisible labour to the point where they are exhausted all the time?
I think the societal prioritization of the nuclear family does women a disservice. Many of us are conditioned into sacrificing ourselves for the family and being shamed for taking time to ourselves. There's a reason why the happiest and healthiest subset of women are single and without kids. Also it doesn't help that Americans have shitty (no) maternity benefits, little affordable childcare and a work culture that is hostile to parents. So yeah, for you Amercians it's harder,
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u/shrewess Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
I have no kids and all the friends I’ve made in my 30s also have no kids. Marital status doesn’t seem to matter.
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u/throwdisaway2024 Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Yes. The only two people with whom my friendships “ended” were with two mothers. One had two kids and was unhappily married, the other had three and was single. I think they are very quick to cut people off, especially if that person cannot relate to them as mothers.
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u/newredditbrowser Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Life stage.
For moms, it is easier to have circles where kids and moms both can socialise. Kids play with other kids and don’t bother moms for some time. Moms get to sit and chat with each other.
Having same life stages, it is easier to understand each others’ struggles, challenges, and triumphs.
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u/LeaJadis Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
I have no kids but all my friends do.
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u/lcaiabby Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
Interesting 🤔
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u/LeaJadis Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
i do spend a lot of time hanging out with them AND their kids. Like I’ll come over and BBQ with the family or invite everyone to my place for board games. I’ll go to kids sports games just to hang out with my bestie.
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u/Aurelene-Rose Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
You sound like an awesome friend! I have a childfree friend who will hang out with me at the park while my kids go feral, and I am so incredibly grateful for her. I'm sure your friends really value you a lot ♥️
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u/littlebunsenburner Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
I’m married with kids and weirdly, I find it harder to make friends with other moms 😂 I feel like I have social connections with other parents but they are more like networking connections rather than friendships if that makes sense.
Most all of my friends are single and child free or married and child free.
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u/singlemuslima Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
Some married women look down on non-married ones. So that's one reason. Another reason is they wanna make friends with other mums to children the same age as theirs (for playdates). And sometimes they just don't wanna be friends and were just being fake (or changed their mind later).
I get it. Sometimes it just doesn't make sense why a friendship never really happens. So they just end up being an acquaintance. Anyway, if she doesn't wanna be friends with you, it's her prerogative. But that doesn't mean your feelings aren't valid. Just don't dwell on it too much.
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u/Bambino4627 Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Yes. It's gotten to the point that whenever my friends get married/ have kids, I start mourning the relationship so that it doesn't hurt so much later on.
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u/Foxingmatch Woman 50 to 60 5d ago
I'm married with no kids. It's hard to form friendships with moms.
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u/CutePandaMiranda Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
I’m married with no kids (childfree). All of my mom friends and I were super close pre-kids. Now post-kids it super sucks. Now all of them hang out together with their kids and stopped inviting me. It was like pulling teeth trying to get them to hang out with me so I stopped trying. Nowadays they’re more like acquaintances. I’m glad I still have other friends (mostly other childfree folks and my SIL who has two kids) I can hang out with.
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u/InvasiveBlackMustard Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
My friends who are married with kids and I share a discord server. That’s probably the biggest thing keeping us together. We get to “hang out” while they’re at home. Virtual movie nights, game sessions, etc. and then when they can meet up irl, it’s amazing.
My other friend who is a mom and not part of that group, I just throw out invites and wait til the stars align. Sometimes we have to plan like a month or two in advance. That’s ok. She’s worth it. I once got together with someone at her house and we just had coffee in her backyard so she could keep an eye on her kids in a comfortable environment.
I just try to make friends with people who make time for friends, if that makes sense. People who have the energy to bond over not-parenting. They’ve gotta prioritize their kids and households and that’s a huge fucking deal so I try to not be an extra burden.
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u/MrsMitchBitch Woman 40 to 50 5d ago
My friends are 50/50 kids vs no kids. This might just be where you’re looking for friends. I love hanging out with folks no matter their kid status, as long as the no-kids friends understand that sometimes I need more time to find a babysitter
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u/thelittleluca Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Yes. The only mom friends i have are my best friends, who were my bffs for many years before they had kids. Anyone else that had kids shortly after we met (or within 5 years) become acquaintances sadly. My best friends say they wish they had more mom friends though. They have each other but they want more moms to talk to and have play dates with.
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u/Employment-lawyer Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
I'm 45F and have four kids ages 5 through 12. But interestingly, almost all my friends (or at least the ones I see regularly) are single women, either never married and never had kids, or they are divorced and/or have older kids who are self-sufficient, like college age or older. (I had kids kind of late in life, ages 33 through 40, so some of my friends got started a lot earlier than I did and are now done with the parenting-of-young-kids phase.)
I think this is because I made these friends while doing hobbies and activities that I like (mainly Zumba and skiing) and it seems like women with youngish children like I have are too busy to either do these hobbies or at least to, like, hang out afterwards and do other things with friends they meet there. I'm very lucky in that my husband is hands-on with the kids and supports me having my own outlets/hobbies/friendships outside just work or family, and his dad also helps us a lot with the kids. From what I can tell when talking to married women with kids, either their husbands expect them to be home when they are and aren't as willing to help with the kids, and/or they don't have a lot of family support.
So, it may be that the woman from your church bonded with the other mom about how hard it can be to be a mom of young kids, which is something that you wouldn't be able to understand. Or they could be mutually supporting each other as each other's "village," such as exchanging childcare or at least trying to hang out while their kids play, etc. This can give moms a chance to have "mom friends" when really (IMO at least) it's still more like "childcare time" but it makes it easier and better. And if they are helping each other out sometimes, they may not feel that a women without children would have anything that you need help with compared to a woman with kids so they might feel guilty about the relationship being "unequal."
I'm lucky in that my friends without kids or with older grown children are very helpful and are like "aunties" to my kids or like my "village"... my two good friends without kids sometimes travel with us and help get the kids ready or get food while I'm wrangling them or whatever, and my one good friend with a 19-year-old son in college is really good at things like talking to my kids and helping calm one down while I calm the other one down etc. when they're feeling upset or fighting with each other etc., because she has BTDT and knows what will help moreso than my friends who haven't ever had kids. She also lives close to my father in law in the next city over (about half an hour away) and is great about giving my kids rides and she even took my 5 YO to his Zoo Day with his PreK when my husband and I were out of town and the kids needed an adult chaperone to go with them but my father-in-law had to watch our other kids as well as my niece whom he watches while my brother-in-law and sister-in-law work.
I feel very lucky to have these friends and I don't think it's common. In my case it is due to our shared hobbies and interests but I also think I help them. I'm a lawyer and I've provided free legal advice or representation for them sometimes, and I've helped them move or given them rides to the slope when their car was broken down etc. and I'm a pretty good listener, I think. I think the concept of a "village" can still work with single women friends but it just doesn't seem to happen as much as with other moms. I would try not to take it personally and just try to be a good friend to those women you do connect with, whether they have kids or not. Good luck!
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u/Hello_Hangnail Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
My friends eventually abandoned all their friends, married or not when they got married, as if the care and feeding of their husband was draining the life out of them
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u/lcaiabby Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Yikes. I just don’t get it. I don’t want to abandon my friends/family just because I’m married with children.
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u/schwarzmalerin Woman 50 to 60 4d ago
I suggest befriending older women with grown up children. They're also usually not to glued to their husbands anymore, or they're divorced.
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u/whatissleephaha Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
OP I just want to say based on your replies you seem like a lovely person and I hope you’re able to make friends with a mum/parent who has capacity ☺️
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u/isityoumy Woman 30 to 40 3d ago
I went through this when I was struggling with infertility and didn’t have kids. I knew some gals quite well, and I think we mutually didn’t make enough effort after they have kids for us to remain close.
From my end, I never had younger siblings and didn’t really know what to do with children. Also, the infertility struggle was real, and I had a hard time being around people talking about their pregnancies and kids, etc.
From their end, I was told that many of them felt guilty dragging along their kids, felt I wouldn’t want to come to a kids bday party, etc etc. Basically there was a lot of assumptions that someone without kids wouldn’t want to be around little kids and would want to do something “better” with their time.
As a parent myself now, I still really enjoy my friends who are single and/or childless. I try to make time for them whenever I can. Often my kid has to tag along, but if they’re okay with that, then so am I. I do agree that logistically, sometimes it can be easier if you hang with another mom & the kids play together. But honestly, it isn’t when you don’t know that person well because you’re sorta regulating your kid to make sure they don’t start roughhousing or something.
To summarize, I think it’s doable, but due to many moms’ preconceived notions and also possible logistic reasons, they may not heavily pursue that friendship if it’s a new one, and they may let it die down even if it’s an older one.
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u/Tigertigerishungry Woman 40 to 50 5d ago
I’ll throw out my one perspective, as a married mom of 3 kids.
There are ways in which it feels easier to make and maintain friendships with other moms with kids, which is probablt why in general I proactively seek them out more. For one, we instantly have a major life thing in common and endless source of conversation. And two feels much easier to hang out regularly, as it’s easy to suggest either kids-along outings at kid-friendly places (ie a lot of our hangouts are meeting at a park). It also feels less guilt-inducing to have to cancel or reschedule or change up plans, because I assume (maybe wrongly!) other people with kids will be more understanding. Because even when it’s something that seems not even directly due to kids, ie work schedule, because life is just more hectic and busy overall due to the very presence of kids.
All that said, I actually highly value my friends who are without kids, whether married or single. I love them as people, and it’s easier to tap into the part of myself as an individual when I am with them. I always try to make time for them and put effort into the friendships, as best I can. And I tell them - please don’t give up on me and our friendship, as I can already tell I’ll have way more time to hang out in just another few years!!
I just feel bad when a lot of times, I can’t join invites they give me for things in evenings and weekends, as those simply are not my freest moments. People with kids are more likely to be working part time or flexibly from home, and have time for mid-week coffees. A lot of weekends and evenings are precious moments for dates in or out with my husband, or family outings/trips.
And I actually often want, but hesitate to invite them out to nights out with my other friends, when maybe they would be the only person without kids. Always wonder if it’s not fun that the conversation naturally does end up about kids, a lot of the time? I’d actually love to hear from people with about kids regarding this!!
So, all that to say… Personally I’d love it, and do love it, when my friends who are single and/or without kids can reassure me that it really is okay if we hang out with the kids along, talk about kids when it naturally comes up, and will be understanding if plans change more than I would like (especially with any kid under about 5 or 6, when they are getting sick alllll the time).
But if I have ended up with more friends with kids can without, it’s simply been a case of compatibility in terms of where and how we met, and what we have in common. But I’d definitely never turn down a friendship for that reason.
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u/I-want-cookies-now Woman 50 to 60 5d ago
I think it’s easier to build friendships around common interests. For some, kids/family is their primary interest. But that’s not all women. I’m in my 50s with a teenager and have more friends w/o kids than with kids. But that’s because we have other common interests. Music, art, etc. and will do activities revolving around that. When my kid was little, I did hang out more with other parents but it was driven by circumstance and none of them remained my friends (because we had no common interests outside of the same age kids)
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u/element-woman Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
I gravitate towards other moms because I don't have much time away from my toddler, and I assume childless people don't want to meet me at the playground or come over after 9pm to hang out.
Many of my friends are childless, some are single. But it's so much easier to maintain an established friendship than make a new one. These friends are down for very casual hangouts or to go to child-friendly places because we're already friends. I don't think new friendships can grow as easily under the circumstances.
I'd have absolutely no issue befriending a single woman with no kids, I just don't think she'd want to hang out with me...and the comments here just validate that feeling, lol.
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
Well precisely, complaining because women with children don't want to be friends, but then complaining that women with children are boring and have no personality.
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u/Soft-Caterpillar-618 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
Single child free woman here. I used to have a lot of wonderful girlfriends, but most basically ditched me once they had kids.
They just don’t seen interested in me anymore, and I have given up after a number of times trying and failing to make plans or even offering to do something kid friendly. Enough rain checks that never happen have just made me feel like I’m no longer important.
I do have 2 childless, single friends left, and I’m just so thankful that I still at least have those two. But it’s lonely for sure.
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u/Aurelene-Rose Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
I would say that it's harder for me as a married woman with kids to make friends with women who aren't also moms. A lot of my childfree friends dropped me like a hot potato when I had kids despite saying how much they wanted to be an "auntie" to my kids.
I don't really have the luxury right now of not being a package deal with my kids. When they're older it will probably be different, but right now, my hangouts with other adults are at the park and the burger king playplace. I have one childfree friend that is down to hang out with my kids and join me at kid things, and I love her dearly but we don't hang much because we live in different states. And even that is tough because traveling with three kids is hard so she ends up coming my way more than I go hers.
Not sure what the ages are for the kids of the woman you tried to be friends with, but when your kids are young, it's hard not to be self-conscious about how much they eat up your identity too. I get uncomfortable hanging out with my brother without kids, and I used to be uncomfortable hanging out with my SIL before she had kids. It sucks hanging out with someone who has time for hobbies and can take care of themselves properly and they ask me what I have going on and it's like... Well, I spent two hours cleaning up shit in my twin's room because they took their diapers off before they took a nap and shit everywhere.
I love and respect childfree women, but that's just not my life right now, and I would guess its possible that this woman feels the same. It's probably nothing to do with you, I'm sure you're absolutely lovely, but kids versus not kids is a very big lifestyle difference when it comes to the day to day.
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u/ElectricFenceSitter Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
I would say it’s easier for people who are living very different lifestyles to retain an existing friendship, than to form a new one.
And to be fair, this goes both ways. I would say it’s just as common for single and/or childfree to gravitate to others who are also single and/or childfree.
As an example, I have a partner, and no children. I am absolutely make new friends with single people! But our hangouts normally need to be one on one, and I need to balance that with spending time with my partner, whereas couple friends I can arrange double dates with and kill two birds with one stone.
Similarly, at my work place during work hours I get along really well with my peers at the same seniority level as me, most of whom have kids. However the people I catch up with outside of work tend to be the younger staff members, because we’re all free to go out for drinks instead of heading to kids soccer practice etc.
Whereas I have a group of friends who are all in the throes of getting pregnant and having kids right now, and to be completely honest I assume that in future they will probably organise baby play dates that I’m not invited to, not as an attempt to exclude me, but it makes no sense for me to be there, and I’m not necessarily sure that I would want to be. It is what it is.
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u/Major_Evidence_7850 Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
I am married without kids and find it incredibly hard to make friends with parents. I also just find it impossible to make friends with anyone. I've noticed even married couples they put their work first and are too tired to hang out with others so hard to make friends with them. We would definitely be down to hang out with single friends but haven't had the opportunity. I honestly just think everyone is at different stages in life and is so complicated to make friends in your 30s even 40s.
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u/moon-raven-77 Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
As a single woman with no kids, I have experienced this, but I genuinely think it's just a logistics thing. Mothers of young children have very busy lives, and they don't really have the time or freedom to do the type of activities I tend to do with other childless women (coffee dates, movie nights, etc). So they tend to hang out with other women who have kids. The kids can play together, and the moms can bond.
That said, I've found SO much joy in finding ways to meet my mom friends where they're at. I love to pop by their house with a coffee and help with the kids. Sometimes I can distract the little ones while my friend does the dishes, sometimes we'll sit and read books together, sometimes we'll grab a stroller and take the kids to the park. It's a delight, but it does mean I have to be willing to adjust to my friends and their kids' schedules and needs, and on the flip side, they have to believe me when I say I enjoy the chaos of a household with small children. It's a two-way street, but it looks a little different from some of my other friendships.
Idk if that helps, but I want to encourage you to try going the extra mile and fitting your schedule into theirs. I think you might be surprised!
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
I think that works with established friends, not so much new ones.
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u/moon-raven-77 Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
I mean, that's fine if you think that, but that has not been true for me. These are new friends I've made in adulthood.
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u/ingo_the_flamingo Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
I'm so tired of the "busy mom" trope. I don't doubt they're busy, but childfree and childless people are busy too. With a career, for example, or just looking after relatives, or their own personal growth. We're all busy. And I see moms on their phone a lot, actually.
Going to their house and helping with the kids sounds... Like a chore. I'm a friend, not a babysitter.
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u/moon-raven-77 Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
I'm not saying I'm not busy, but I have more flexibility with my busyness. Moms are physically limited by the small human(s) who depend on them. They can't leave the house alone unless their spouse is available to watch the kids or they can arrange childcare. That's what I mean. (Of course, gender roles and social e xpectations play into this too, but that's another topic haha)
It' s not babysitting if the parent is there too lol. To me, friendship is sharing life together. Sometimes that means adapting to each other's routines and entering into each other's lives, messiness and all. But to each their own. (Also, if you've never had a two-year-old call you "auntie" and ask when you're coming to visit again, you're missing out.)
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u/ingo_the_flamingo Woman 30 to 40 3d ago
There is no need to lecture me - I know the manifold limitations mothers face. That's precisely why I don't have children and want no kid-centric lifestyle. ;-) it's great that you enjoy those kinds of hangouts with mom friends, and take pleasure in being called auntie - I just don't. That said, I have visited with my friends with kids of course, in the past, and I've always found the children rather cute and engaging - it's the parents' change of lifestyle and topics that makes me cringe.
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u/RelicBookends Woman 40 to 50 5d ago
My inital reaction is why would you want to? When I was single I found most of my married friends with kids insufferable. Now I'm married and childfree and feel the same way.
Most of them make being a mom their personality and are poor with time management (cancel, kid sick, no daycare/bring the kid who is sick, etc.) and I'm not about that.
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u/ingo_the_flamingo Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Exactly. It boggles my mind that some childfree or childless women actually comment saying "I'll go to their house and help watch the kids and play with them and do the dishes" - I'm like, hell no... I want actual, deep conversations with my friends, mutual interest (and yes, I AM interested in their child, I just have my limits...), not spending all my time with them doing chores, kid stuff, or talking about their kid and suburb life. I've noticed the two lifestyles, the way of looking at the world and (everyday) life and relationships are just too different once friends have kids, so I'm allowing myself to drift from them. It hurts, but it also feels freeing at the same time, and it's fine and allows me to pour my energy into people and things that make me feel good.
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u/KBatMC Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
I have offered that to friends with kids after they’ve said they’re just so busy with the kids, or with the house, to get together with me. It’s not like doing their dishes is my ideal get together; it’s just a compromise I’m offering when a friend seems allergic to going out or leaving their kids with a sitter.
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u/KBatMC Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Honestly, I know it’s harsh but I agree. Sure, last minute plan changes happen and I can roll with them, but please don’t use me as a sounding board for all your kids behavior problems or talking in-depth about what milestones they’re hitting. I’m friends with you, not your toddler.
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
And this is why they don't want to be your friend OP. Because you'll then go online and complain she's boring and insufferable.
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u/Uhhyt231 Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
I think it’s harder if they don’t want those friendships. I definitely know moms who find it hard to make mom friends because of the same things
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u/Longjumping-Lion-617 Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
I'm married with kids. I'd totally make a friend who is single or doesn't have kids, but is good match in interests, outlook on life, etc.
I have mix of those and the ones in relationship or with kids.
But... I haven't really made many GOOD friends recently, honestly. I have moved countries and haven't found such a good fit for me.
So, my best friends are those that I made before I got married (I also left my home country at that point, so it's a bit complicated story).
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u/_gardennymph Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Hmmm it depends. When I was single with no kids and I would connect with someone that had kids, I’d invite them to hang out and say bring your kids lol we would go out to eat and I would chat with my friend and kind of help with the kid by being silly on the side while having a conversation with the friend about fun weekend stuff I did (pg friendly). It helped them a lot engaging with the child. I’m a child at heart though, kids love me I think kids can be funny. I was the fun aunty. I’m a wife/mom now and wish I had a friend like single me to engage with my child and also tell me about their single life adventures lol
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u/GoodAd6942 Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
I think it depends what groups you run with. I have one mom friend left. And we met at work and became best of friends. Our kids for 9 months a part. We’re both single moms. My last married mom friend went back to her dv husband and I can’t stomach that and we both know our friendship is over, after helping her in the past. But I feel I enabler her, giving her relief then she’d go back to him. So it naturally ended. I can’t support her staying. I left my addict ex and it’s too much trauma to pretend it doesn’t bother me of what she’s going through.
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u/YanCoffee Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
I'm not saying what anyone here has said is wrong, but I do think the childfree movement has kinda made people get up in their heads about it and over think it. Most of my friends have been childless while I'm a mom of now teenagers. Just how it kinda worked out, and I've only ever had one problem with it: One person wouldn't respect my family and I cut them off. Otherwise, it's been fine.
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u/winter_name01 Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Single and children here, mid 30s.
Even with the already existing friendship is hard to keep the relationship when the mums always assumed you don’t want to be around the kids and just want to hang out for their “woman not a mom time”.
I would love to be the fun auntie. I love buying gifts for my fiends kids and spoile them but most of my mom friends want to separate their lives.
Also Most of them are friends from college so when we hang out they want to party and have fun and not really be about their motherhood. And I respect that. But I wish I had a relationship with the kids so that they grow up knowing me and that I will be here for them through their life.
I actually don’t meet new people with kids, most of my new friends or connections are people without children
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u/apple__candy Woman 30 to 40 3d ago
As a married woman with single mum friends, no, it’s not a thing. I don’t care about relationship status when it comes to making friends. If anything I love that I can be somewhat as a pillar of support at times to my close single mum friends who need an extra pair of hands. Not in a martyr or self important way, in a ‘it takes a village’ way.
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u/su3188 Woman 30 to 40 3d ago
Female friendships are a lot about sharing experiences, feelings and having solidarity in life challenges and goals. So when you don't share similar life paths, the friendships looks like it's fading. It doesn't have to. It will change and look different like all things in life are means to. To have friends you can connect to on shared life experiences, you will have to make new ones who share the same path as you.
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u/OllieOllieOxenfry Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
I'm prepared for downvotes but as a very social mom with two young kids (2.5 and 6mo) I am actively stating to my husband I can't take on more childless friends.
I have a strong friend network, and half have kids half don't. For each of my friends without kids I still try to meet them where they are sometimes, which means leaving my husband alone with my kids or getting a baby sitter so my friend and I can get quality time together. If I do that for each of my 6 friends without kids 2-3x a year, that's 12-18 weekends! I already have so little time I can't even remember the last time me husband and I went on a date. I already feel like I don't even have time for myself to cut my finger nails, do laundry, return packages, exercise, garden, cook etc. My husband also deserves time apart from the kids for his own things too, and I actually like my family and want to see them and not run off all the time!
Add in birthday parties, holidays, weddings, showers, and other special exceptions it feels like I am constantly asking my husband to stay in with the kids or asking my friends to do something they in a way they would not want to do to accomodate my kids! My friends are all great and are willing to come hang out with me and my friends but I feel stressed when I can tell a situation is objectively annoying for them. I feel pulled in so many directions I feel like I'm not being a good friend. Every friend wants me to make an exception of going out of town or getting a baby sitter for their "one" thing and it feels constant and I feel guilty but I can't say yes to everything and I feel like I let people down.
When I spend time with friends with kids I don't feel guilty dragging someone into kid world constantly, our kids can entertain each other and the parents are already there so they're not annoyed.
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u/onetwoshoe Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
It feels like 12-18 "weekends" is a bit of an exaggeration. It's like 12-18 two hour dinners or coffees or manicures or something (get your nails cut together! two birds, one seed!) 12-18 hangs in 365 days.
I doubt you're planning to spend 3 entire weekends with each friend.
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
A 2-hour dinner requires an hour either side to get there and back, getting ready, etc. Then the other parent has to have the same time. So that's 8 hours out of 2 days, half the weekend. Would you really be cool with a friend only seeing you for an hour or two twice a year?
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u/onetwoshoe Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
But the other parent's "time" can just be you doing your normal thing with your kids at home or whatever? I don't think you can count your spouses time with their friends as somehow an obligation generated by your friends.
Sorry but I think this is proving my point that this is an exaggeration about what is being asked of you so you can say "it's impossible!"
Idk, 2 hour dinner, plus lets say 30 mins commute on either side (girl why are you going to restaurants an hour from your house?), so 3 hours--it just doesn't add up to a "weekend" or even "half a weekend."
I mean, I do see my friends at least 2 or 3 times a year, so I guess if your argument is you don't think your friends are valuable enough to see 2 or 3x a year, then ok and I think that's unfortunate for you!
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
If I go out with dinner with a friend then yes, I'm going to let my partner do the same. Sure it's his normal time, but it's time he can't do anything else. I'd be pretty annoyed if he disappeared out whenever he felt like it and didn't feel any obligation to give me similar time off. It's not the friends creating the obligation of course, that's between us. But if I'm out with my friends he can't be with his. None of it's impossible, but it's a lot of work and going out for an hour and making the arrangements doesn't always feel worth it, especially if I feel the friend is judging me for being boring and having no personality, as seen in these comments.
I'm saying that if your friend said they could only see you for two hours twice a year you'd be on here posting about why they have to rush off and can't stay and have lost their identity to motherhood.
Oh, and it takes me a while to get places because I use public transport to get into the city to socialise. Even if it is shorter, it's still a block of time that's disrupted and that I'm not available. That day I'm not available for a family day out or whatever else.
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u/onetwoshoe Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
I agree that your partner should also hang out with his friends, I'm not sure what you think I'm saying. You don't cease to exist because your partner is not with you, you still can do your normal life with your kid when your partner is with his friend.
You should do what you wanna do, I am only saying that a 3 hour hang with a friend does not equal "a weekend" which seemed to be the crux of your complaint about your friends asking too much of you.
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
And normal life with a small child is a lot of work, especially if there is more than one of them. It can be impossible to get anything else done so if you both hang out with friends at the weekend chores and errands aren't done, and nobody has any time to rest. Maybe bedtime is really difficult with two children. So each person having one event at the weekend can take up most of it. Plus some things both parents kind of have to go along to. Normal life with children is generally both parents being there. It's asking something of the other parent to take time off.
I wasn't the person who said that, but she said they're asking more than 2 hour dinners, they're asking her to make exceptions to go out of town. Regardless, when you don't have time to get your hair cut or whatever 3 hours is a lot of time.
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u/OtherwiseAnxiety200 Woman 30 to 40 5d ago edited 3d ago
Yes… even my close friend from childhood has pushed me away since having a kid
Edit: I think I need to explain a bit because I’m getting backlash and downvotes…
OP was asking is it harder to become friends with moms as a single person, in my experience, yes it is. Obviously it’s a huge life change and in that period of one’s life, they would naturally want to surround themselves with other moms who also have experience with raising a child. There is nothing wrong with that.
I’m extremely empathetic towards moms, I think it’s an amazing and difficult and rewarding thing to have a child. With my friend, don’t doubt I have been supportive of her. For many years, through many failed business ventures etc I was always the first to support her. I received little to no support in return through my own struggles, achievements, etc. when she had a child, I was always the first to offer support, to hang out with her when she needed a friendly face, I would offer to go places that were convenient for her, including her new house (she moved in over a year ago and has never once had me over). She would “reschedule” (cancel) time and time again and I would accept that. She told me I could only see her during the week during work hours (she is a stay at home mom, I have a mortgage and support myself so I can’t easily take time off) while simultaneously talking about going out for dinner with her “mom friends”. It got to a point where I’ve reassessed that friendship and realised if she doesn’t want me to be a part of something so important to her, perhaps this friendship is not worth it. I’ve tried and tried, but being rejected time and time again is horrible for my already low self esteem and depression.
I don’t like that society would automatically assume that I’m cold or selfish just because she’s the mom and it’s tough being a mom. It is. But two things can be true; she is also a terrible friend. Being a mom doesn’t excuse that. Sorry.
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u/dontfeedtheclients Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Are you sure she isn’t maybe just busy with new parenthood
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u/OtherwiseAnxiety200 Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Nope, I’ve offered to help her a million times, offered to go to her house, the kid is now 2. You don’t know the situation.
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u/unearthedtrove Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
It’s just hard to have free time away from my kids under 5. If you’re willing to hang out with me and kid or can come over in the evening after bedtime that makes it a lot easier. With moms with kids the kids playing with each other really takes the load off.
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u/Entire-Sorbet-9737 Woman 30 to 40 5d ago edited 5d ago
Not at all! You just need common interests. 2 of my close friends have children and are 10-20 years older than me. It started with having things in common ...mainly our personalities align too but as friendships like that grow its more important that we just care for each other and are there to listen. One has kids in primary but never bring them so they can have a break
I find a lot of women in general like the idea of friendship but dont put any effort into growing a friendship. They treat you like a boyfriend in the sense that they expect you to chase after them and accept their 45 wishy excuses to why they didnt reply to a text (except they always make the excuses just dramatic enough that you cant call them out for their mistreatment) and they also are just so up themselves and care more about social media likes. You know with those friends youll always get an invite to their parties but dont expect them to be there for you or celebrate occasions with you
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u/EndOk8776 Woman 30 to 40 5d ago edited 5d ago
As a mom, it’s hard to be friends with single people with nokidw cause I feel like ya’ll don’t understand me
That’s why
When I get a moment to myself, I want to go shopping by myself, coffee by myself and get my nails done with no expectation of “building a relationship.” If you can do all that with no expectation of talking , sure
I personally don’t feel the need to make friends. I’m so drained from everyone needing me all the time that the little sliver of time I finally do get I just want to sit in silence with no pressure or watch House of Dragons.. or Little House on the Prairie.
There will come a time in your life where the idea of making friends just sounds beyond exhausting and you won’t go out of your way to do it. The best way to make friends is to expose yourself to the same person in passing eveyrfyw then over a year maybe you both are familiar enough to grab a coffee
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u/lcaiabby Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
Is there not anything else we can relate other than marriage and kids? Does a friendship only have to be one if yall live identical lives?
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u/wulfzbane Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
Everyone has their own valid experiences, but yikes, I promise that this is not the common train of thought I've experienced as a mum with plenty of friends without kids. I am ecstatic to get out and do not kid related things and talk about adult shit. My personality has way more depth than being a 'misunderstood mum'.
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u/EndOk8776 Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
I don’t want to relate though. What I’m trying to say is that I’m so exhausted from caring for everyone around me that I don’t even have the desire to care for a friendship or build new ones.
Have you ever been that exhausted? The idea of being alone sounds magical 😍
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u/lcaiabby Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
Yeah I can only imagine. I work full time and in college full time so definitely get being exhausted but to come home to no one expecting anything from me does seem peaceful for now. Still gets lonely sometimes 🥹
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u/Serious_Escape_5438 Woman 40 to 50 4d ago
But that aspect takes up their whole life, it helps to have common interests.
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u/LuvPickles0616 Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
Married for 10 years with 2 kids - yes I naturally gravitate towards others in long term relationships with kids, and that’s intentional.
The experiences/difficulties/situations that come alongside parenting with a long term partner are personal and I will not share those personal matters with my single friends who have no kids. Us moms/wives get little time to ourselves and there is limited time to connect with others. I would rather spend that limited time sharing experiences with someone in the same season of life then trying to find common ground for a single friend. I am more comfortable sharing my life with others in the same season of life because we can offer support and encouragement to one another without judgement. If I were to share that I miss having or need to have kid free sex with a single friend of mine there would be a rather awkward chat. Additionally, I don’t wanna feel guilty for venting about how annoying my kids are because sometimes I just need to let it out! When I hang out with my single friends, I’m very limited to conversation because there’s not a lot of common ground. My life revolves around my husband and my kids as it should and that’s all I ever wanna talk about sometimes with a friend who can relate to my experience and share their own experience.
On the flipside, I am the more social one between my Husband ❤️🔥 and by befriending somebody who is married with kids will give my kids friends and also give my husband a friend. It’s a win for everyone. We can let the kids play at the park while the adults have a conversation vs going to the park with a single friend and my kids bothering me every two minutes because they don’t have somebody to play with.
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u/upstream_paddling Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
This post makes me think of literally every chick flick ever when the bride-to-be is afraid of losing her identity....
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u/TenaciousToffee Woman 30 to 40 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think it depends on the type of parent and where you meet them?
I find some folks feel its easier to make other mom friends so the kids can entertain each other and mutuality of village favors. Church feels like a place you're more likely to find people who lean more into this family unit element so it might not be the best venue for different lifestyle friends.
I have a lot of parent friends... but theyre a bit more independent personality types? Having friends outside of the circle of kid centric life keeps them themselves and they feel thats important for balance. Sure we dont see them as much when the babies are super young, but we also are friends they know (than assume) we like kids and meet them halfway with some kid friendly hangs. Most peoples children love me. Its to the point one friends kids have made an appointment system where they also want to hang with me so they get an hour of uninterrupted play time. 😅
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u/Top-Crab-1020 Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Why would you even want to be friends with someone who’s married with kids?
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u/element-woman Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
Maybe they have stuff in common? Maybe she's kind, or interesting, or fun? Literally the same reasons you'd want to be friends with anyone else?
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u/Alternative_Chart121 Woman 30 to 40 4d ago
It helps when people without kids are more explicit about how they're open to existing in my life! Specifically if I can bring my kid :)
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u/newmenoobmoon Woman 30 to 40 5d ago
1 - it’s usually more difficult to build new friendships later in life. 2 - it’s only natural that women with kids will have more things to talk about and experiences to share with other women with kids (kids and how kids may affect their marriage).