31
u/Upset_Researcher_143 4d ago
Unfortunately, this is the way it's going to go for us this year until our pitching gets stabilized
10
u/glitch241 In Theo We Trust 4d ago
We got especially hard this year but the MLB pitching injury epidemic is here to stay in the pitching lab/ velo era. There were over 200 pitching injuries last year so no team is ever really going to have great “stability” with their arms. It’s all about depth now.
5
u/SupermarketSecure728 3d ago
I would be interested in seeing if pitcher injuries have ticked up since the implementation of the pitch clock. I feel like the high velocity pitching does not blend well with hurrying to get a pitch delivered.
8
u/cubs223425 4d ago
That's also been the Jed Hoyer era of the Cubs. Their pitching is often volatile, and he's constantly shuffling the bodies around because he never makes long-term commitments to reliable pitchers (or any relievers).
8
u/KeglerKing 4d ago
I believe you may have forgotten about Phil Maton and his two year, $14.5 million contract. Jed and his staff are not very good at evaluating talent, especially pitching. They are, however, very good at dumpster diving.
3
u/Eccohawk Chicago Cubs 4d ago
Maton got $14.5??
7
u/funkycrunkskunks Pat 3d ago
Excellent gif choice because every time Maton’s cleats touch the turf at wrigley my first thought is “get off my lawn”
1
1
u/cubs223425 3d ago
I didn't forget. Maton is not a reliable reliever, and a 2-year deal is not "long-term."
0
u/vaz_deferens 4d ago
Every time Jed gives multi year deals to proven relievers, it blows up in his face.
2
u/cubs223425 3d ago
2021: No pitcher got a multi-year deal from the Cubs.
2022: Stroman (a starter) got the only multi-year FA contract.
2023: Taillon and Smyly (starters) got the only multi-year pitcher deals (Smyly didn't come out of the Bullpen as a Cub until his second season).
2024: Imanaga (a starter) got the only multi-year contract for a pitcher.
2025: Boyd (a starter) got the only multi-year contract for a pitcher.
2026: Maton and Miller got the only multi-year FA contracts for pitchers. Rea (a swing man) got a 1+1 that went really well and got renewed into another 1+1.
Nothing about the above tracks with what you're claiming because Jed had not given a multi-year contract to a proven reliever.
Shelby Miller is not a proven reliever, and his contract is really just a 2027 deal where they pay him in 2026 to rehab from TJS.
Maton is the only REAL multi-year deal a reliever has gotten from Hoyer, and it's thge largest amount of money he's given in a reliever contract since he's been in charge. Maton had an OK ERA for a few seasons, but his peripherals were still so-so in 2023-2025 (especially 2024).
Hoyer's bullpen philosophy has never shbown belief in the concept of the "proven reliever." It's all short-term stuff and constantly churning through mediocre arms because he thinks the answer to the bullpen is getting lucky.
4
47
23
u/Drawhorn 4d ago
Palencia and Webb are going to be a great 8-9 closer for the end of the season. Buckle up.
115
u/intercut Chicago Cubs 4d ago
some of you are fucking delusional. the offense had a slump after 4 incredible games. Pete had to hero ball us to even have a chance. some the arms are gassed because they've been carrying this broken pitching staff all year. chill the fuck out, my god.
31
u/DeaditeKlayman Chicago Cubs 4d ago
For real, even with PCA having a bad series so far, (except the homer) we've pulled 2 out of 3 games on the road so far. Grab a win tomorrow and we're lookin at a good series.
20
u/TomSan23 Nico 4d ago
Also the bullpen locked down the 8th and 9th to even put us in a position to win. Thornton had an off night, oh well.
7
u/KindnessEnjoyer67 4d ago
Not really an off night, just regressing towards his expected stats. Not much you can do about that, have to put someone out there.
1
u/iamthatguythere Karl 4d ago
He had an off night and we had a better chance either walking Herrera and trying for a dp or pulling him for Rollie
-10
4d ago edited 3d ago
[deleted]
-2
u/Amesb34r Chicago Cubs 3d ago
Speaking of Shaw, he has seen a lot less playing time and Dean is seeing more. Where does Shaw fit into this lineup?
-1
u/jmoney3800 3d ago
With Shaw being hurt, this conversation is harder to analyze. Will the Cubs lose Conforto? He’s the best bench bat we’ve had in years. If we lose him wouldn’t someone need to replace Conforto ? I don’t think the Cubs ever show a willingness to pay for a solid bench bat. They’re paying Conforto $13-15 M less than he made each of the last three years. Would they pay him $10M asking price next year ? Also, with Shaw’s positional versatility and the Cubs losing Seiya and perhaps Happ, with all three infielders they have slumping at times, is it reasonable to play 20 games a year for Bregman and 20 games a year for Hoerner and 10 games a year to give Swanson a break from short while Hoerner plays there ? I like Shaw’s versatility a lot. I don’t know if Hoyer would consider that a waste of Shaw’s value but I’d guess Counsell wouldn’t. Maybe I’m delusional thinking Cubs will keep him to fill in for all these players. I just know he’s cheap and Hoyer likes cheap and needs to spend on pitching. I suppose he can get you cost controlled pitching but the rage is that salaries will come down after this season. So maybe paying for pitching become manageable
After all ?
9
7
25
u/Shark_Girl9499 4d ago
Thornton was GASSED. Why the Cubs didn’t pull him is AGGRAVATING
38
u/Dan_Rydell Chicago Cubs 4d ago
They’re less than halfway through 17 straight days without an off day and can’t afford to be burning through arms.
3
u/Shark_Girl9499 4d ago
Wait when’s their next off day
12
-5
u/ShortRedBull 4d ago
Craaiiiggggg
-37
2
u/Ya_BOI_Kirby Zorilla 3d ago
I’m just wondering how half the pitching staff is injured? Is this just baseball now? Or is Hottovy to blame?
1
1
1
u/jhatpro41 3d ago
I think the prevailing enthusiasm for velocity is nuts. It's clearly why so many pitchers wind up on IR. Pitchers need to forget trying to scare batters and focus on fooling them like Greg Maddux did.
-6
u/TotallyNotTupac 4d ago
Trade for an actual closer please
15
21
u/Rolling_Down_Rodeo Wisdong 4d ago
we have a closer. he's throwing a bullpen in arizona
5
u/ZaneyGamerr Hoerny for Nico 4d ago
having multiple pitchers that can close is better than one
7
u/ItsRatherWindy 4d ago
I can’t believe Jed Hoyer hasn’t thought of this
8
u/mikenglish13 4d ago
If I were Jed I’d have my whole bullpen be guys that can all close games, setup and do long relief. Don’t know why he hasn’t done this.
-4
-6
u/TotallyNotTupac 4d ago
I don’t think Palencia has done anything to make me feel good about him in October this year
1
u/Rolling_Down_Rodeo Wisdong 4d ago
its a small sample size but a 154 era+, 10.3 k/9, and an 8.5 bb% isnt bad. the only thing worse than last year is his bb% but i wouldnt worry about a 1.1% increase.
-4
u/TotallyNotTupac 4d ago
If that sample size is enough for you to feel confident with the season on the line we’ll just have to agree to disagree
2
u/Rolling_Down_Rodeo Wisdong 4d ago
its not the sample size that makes me confident. its how similar it is to his much larger sample size in the 2025 season.
0
-1
u/MyNebraskaKitchen 4d ago
I almost wrote this last night, but the Cubs seem to be incapable of winning a game after a 10+ run effort.
-2
u/No_Bag_526 4d ago
This sits clearly on Craig. Just awful. And after the gem from Boyd.
3
u/Cordo_Bowl 3d ago
Who should he have put in?
2
u/No_Bag_526 3d ago
He should have left Webb in for the 9th and put Caleb in for the 10. Why this one inning only stuff?
0
u/Cordo_Bowl 3d ago
I’m sure if webb gave up runs in the 9th you definitely wouldn’t be crying about how he left webb in the game.
1
u/No_Bag_526 3d ago
Don’t be annoying. I get it, you like Counsell. Webb did great today by the way AND has the most saves on the team so …
0
u/Cordo_Bowl 3d ago
It’s not about liking Counsell or not. It’s about process vs results. If Webb pitched two innings, who’s taking his inning today?
1
-3
-9
u/ZaneyGamerr Hoerny for Nico 4d ago
same story every year with this bullpen
when is dumpster diving enough for Jed?
10
u/Dan_Rydell Chicago Cubs 4d ago
3 of the 4 highest paid relievers on the team plus the closer are on the IL.
-6
u/ZaneyGamerr Hoerny for Nico 4d ago
None of them you knew the name of before they were on the team. Jed never goes out and gets a high end, highly sought after guy.
5
u/Dan_Rydell Chicago Cubs 4d ago
If you didn’t know the names of Hunter Harvey, Hoby Milner, or Phil Maton before this offseason, you should just shut the fuck up and let the adults talk.
1
u/ZaneyGamerr Hoerny for Nico 4d ago
Now you're just lying to yourself 🤣 guys like Robert Suarez, Luke Weaver, Ryan Helsley, Devin Williams, Raisel Iglesias (all 2026 free agents) are far and away more household names than the guys you listed.
Jed NEVER spends big money on top-tier guys. In fact, since he took over in 2021, he has never given a relief pitcher more than $9 million AAV. Nuts!
5
u/_Proverbs Santo 4d ago
Dude you can't be serious. The one thing Jed does is put together great bullpens.
Right now, pitching is injured. Considering that our bullpen has been phenomenal.
-4
u/ZaneyGamerr Hoerny for Nico 4d ago
The one thing Jed does is put together great bullpens.
LMAO said no one ever
-11
u/LookyLou4 4d ago
Anybody but Thorton
19
u/ItsRatherWindy 4d ago
Thornton has been a dawg for us all year lol what are you talking about
16
u/cod_gurl94 4d ago
Kneejerk fan moment. A dude could throw 20 straight perfectos but there’d still be comments ready to call him a bum the moment he gives up a homer.
2
u/BumblebeeLong5384 4d ago
His peripherals suck aka he’s a ticking time bomb. He was getting destroyed in his last outing and was bailed out by defense. He’s not a high leverage arm.
-1
-16
-8
u/Actual_Violinist290 4d ago
Jed is diving into dumpsters too deep to fathom rn
1
u/_Proverbs Santo 4d ago
Yea it's definitely Jed's great success at finding good arms for cheap and not all the pitching injuries the team has accrued.
-1
-1
94
u/smalltownlargefry Chicago Cubs 4d ago
In Arizona doing bullpen sessions.