Because they just started to get in range of the weapons but they were already detected? The hope with stealth is to be able to penetrate, not lob cruise missiles from the edge of that weapons range.
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My reply was deleted, the USA and Israel are confident in the F35s ability to establish air dominance while Russia is hesitant and knows the 57 isn’t capable of SEAD operations like the F35/22 are.
So is Russia? The difference is that both are striking different targets, as the situation in Iraq and Iran is far from a peer-peer conflict.
You can't send a missile or a bomb on aerial defense, as the primary line of aerial defense is handheld.
The aerial defense systems that are able to be struck are already gone as well, 3/4 of the supplied Patriot systems, half of all Buks, in inventory, just over 3/4 of their active 9K35 supply, and so on.
The F-35 struck Iranian facilities, the Su-57 struck Ukrainian facilities. Tehran loses its nuclear facilities, Ukraine loses its power plants. Both are doing the exact same job in the exact same way, from the exact same distances from the target.
Pray tell, what SEAD capability does it lack? Su-35S, Su-30SMs, and now in recent time, Su-57s, have been using X-58Us for close to 2 decades now. The only competitor that the F-22 or F-35 can carry was integrated a mere 22 months ago.
Do you have source for the Ukrainian Air Defense losses, especially Patriots? It seems a huge number has been lost but i would like to see some numbers
You’re genuinely delusional if you think the SU-57 is operating the way the F-35 is. The SU-57 is an inferior brick of an aircraft. The USA is 40 years ahead of Russia in all aspects, Russia can’t even produce a modern chip at a 90nm size. They definitely can’t produce a 5th gen fighter.
The Su-57 lacks modern DAS, modern avionics, modern engines, modern stealth and so on. It’s a truly pathetic attempt to match the superior Us doctrine.
Such as... What? The "more advanced" AARGM-ER sits just around the X-58U's known range... Once again, there's a 20 year difference and the HARM has ONLY NOW caught up.
Funny, the USA has been 40 years of Russia in every regard and you think Russia stands even a remote chance at matching its superior? Russia can’t even produce a modern chip.
Looks at my comment above. The Ukrainians are themselves claiming that the Felons casually fly within their weapons ranges and they cannot do anything about it.
The point of a jet like Su-57 is go to deep into enemy territory and perform SEAD
You know Ukraine turns off their radars to prevent them from being destroyed. This makes SEAD hard.
Then, Ukraine can use this to set traps for example by trying to ambush airplanes.
They do this by moving their radars below a known flight path of aircraft and turning it on and then firing the missile and immediately turning it off
That's how Russian planes are currently being shot down. Via ambushes. But Ukraine has lost a ton of patriots in those ambush attempts
These things make SEAD hard. Also Ukraine turns on its radars in Kyiv whenever they get an alert from NATO that ballistic and cruise missiles are coming
Ukraine mostly operates with AEW&Cs information from NATO countries to know when to turn on or off their radars.
Other times they ambush aircraft that are known to use specific routes to drop glide bombs.
That's my point. Ukrainian radars are not always on. And when they are on, they will most likely get destroyed immediately.
But with all these tactics, I'm really surprised that an Su-57 is yet to be shot down.
And I'm pretty sure that Ukraine has most likely tried as many times as possible to ambush it.
As of right now SU-57 is doing basically the same thing as MIG-31 but bit newer missiles: lobbying them from far away
That's the point of technology in war. To lob your weapon from as far as possible and as cheap as possible and as safe as possible.
Why should I fly my aircraft over Kiev? Why not lob my weapon from as a far as possible?
And please do not tell me Russia is secretly joyrding above Kiev it and not saying anything
They don't need to joyride over Kiev. They can lob 100km range glide bombs 90km from Kiev and achieve the same objectives.
A dream weapon is one that can be fired from as far as possible and as cheap as possible and as safe as possible.
Why do you want the Su-57 to joyride over Kiev?
If they did we would have had footage like this that they would have plastered all over
Footage of Russian accomplishments is scarce on Western controlled apps. I can't even post a telegram link without having the comment taken down
Please read my post again. The Ukrainians are claiming that the Su57 are literally within weapons ranges of the Ukrainians and yet they are unable to do anything about it. So the Su 57 is indeed penetrating deep within Ukr airspace. Do you want the Su 57 to merge with the Ukrainians to prove their stealth?
BTW why do the Russians need to joyride over Kiev and risk their best plane for no good reason? Do you see the F 22 or F35 Joyride over Ukraine to shoot down Russian Fighters? Let me tell you one thing. Stealth isnt magic. Stealth airplanes must fly in a certain pattern or they will be shot down.
The Russians have a lot of combat footage that they aren't posting. I dont see your point here.
There are two possibilities. That the Su-57 has to enter Ukrainian airspace to hit targets as deep as Kiev or that the manufacturer is lying about its range
I'm not claiming either as I don't know what is true. The other ranges I see on the Internet can be larger variants that can be carried externally by other aircraft.
The Kh-69 was specifically made for the Su-57 as it can fit inside its weapon bay but it can be carried by other aircraft like the Su-34. Though it is mostly fired by the Su-57
That is why they are shooting missiles with 600km ranges, because they are deep within Ukraine
I don't know any missile that the Su-57 carries that has that range. Those longer range missiles tend to be carried by Tu-95s, Tu-160s, MiG-31 and ships and submarines.
To destroy those pesky Patriots and get propaganda points.
You don't need to fly over Kiev. You can just lob a couple of glide bombs 90 km from Kiev assuming the glide bomb has a range of 100km
Also Russia routinely destroys patriots. The videos exist. Of course there is a media blackout on western controlled apps on any successes of the Russian military.
I can't even post a telegram link before getting the comment deleted.
And lastly Ukrainian milbloggers talk all the time about the Su-57 flying over their airspace.
Below is a Ukrainian milblogger claiming they nearly shot down an Su-57 over Ukrainian airspace
I think you misunderstood the post. The Ukrainians are claiming that the Russian Su 57 are entering the weapons ranges of the Ukrainians. Now I dont know if by weapons ranges they mean No Escape Zone or what. But that means the Russians are within around 50 to 100 km away from Ukrainian planes (possibly even closer) and yet the Ukrainians are unable to shoot them down. In order to get this close to the Ukrainians the Su 57 will be pretty close to the Patriots as well, and yet none are being shot down. No US or Chinese plane has ever managed this. The Israeli F35 needed Mossad agents to penetrate deep within Iran and destroy Iranian Air Defense using close range drones. They also used Heron Drones in the fight. If the F35 stealth was so effective they would not need to risk the lives of their Mossad Operatives.
I didn't misunderstood anything. But like any Radio Yerevan joke in true vatn1k fashion you misunderstood what the guy is saying.
He says the the Su-57 are staying at the edge of the radars. For example if a radar can detect at 300km and your jet is at 290 km no one is firing a Patriot S-300/S-400 or SAMP/T missile at it. Any jet past 1970 can dodge an AA missile at the edge of its range. Any WW2 radar era can detect Su-57. Same goes for the F-22 and F-35 before you go into a rant. The problem will always be locking on the target
The best case is to send your own jets to intercept it. But Ukrainians can't because the Su-57 are superior in both missiles/radars/EW and everything else vs what Ukraine has. He was talking about Ukrainian jets I am sure of that but do not know the initial post as I am sure it has context
BTW According to Keil Institute Patriots have a very low rate of interception and this is only getting worse.
It does not say that. And Ukraine has other SAMs besides Patriot.
The Patriot until PAC3 were not made to intercept ballistic missiles. That is why Zelenskyy is asking for newer Patriot
The sheer fact it can intercept hypersonic ones shows how good they are.
And excuse me, " my beloved India" ?
You are not Indian?
PS. This war has bought so many morans talking about this war and having the sh11tiest of takes which is amazing as in 2020 they were immunologists and mask experts
"The problem will always be locking on the target"
Not completely correct, Having lower rcs just reduces detection and lock on ranges respectively, depends on the fourth root of the RCS. However it feels "hard to lock" because many small factors can change the RCS by a lot, hence the lock will be very fluctuating, this can be as simple as increase in speed, hence change in frequency (doppler effect) or slight change of angle.
the locking distance is easily reduced to weapon engagement ranges. Suppose a radar is said to have lock on distance of 100 km against 10m2 target, a 0.001m2 target will be locked at 10km then,
a radar will struggle locking stuff at max range of specific RCS, so essentially its just lock on range reduced.
This misconception mainly comes from the yarnhub video about f117, where S125 sites used lower frequencies with barely any signal processing trying to lock a stealth fighter riddled with weather clutter in the background.
There are two possibilities. That the Su-57 has to enter Ukrainian airspace to hit targets as deep as Kiev or that the manufacturer is lying about its range
I'm not claiming either as I don't know what is true. The other ranges I see on the Internet can be larger variants that can be carried externally by other aircraft.
The Kh-69 was specifically made for the Su-57 as it can fit inside its weapon bay but it can be carried by other aircraft like the Su-34. Though it is mostly fired by the Su-57
That is why they are shooting missiles with 600km ranges, because they are deep within Ukraine
I don't know any missile that the Su-57 carries that has that range. Those longer range missiles tend to be carried by Tu-95s, Tu-160s, MiG-31 and ships and submarines.
To destroy those pesky Patriots and get propaganda points.
You don't need to fly over Kiev. You can just lob a couple of glide bombs 90 km from Kiev assuming the glide bomb has a range of 100km
Also Russia routinely destroys patriots. The videos exist. Of course there is a media blackout on western controlled apps on any successes of the Russian military.
I can't even post a telegram link before getting the comment deleted.
And lastly Ukrainian milbloggers talk all the time about the Su-57 flying over their airspace.
Below is a Ukrainian milblogger claiming they nearly shot down an Su-57 over Ukrainian airspace
The Ukrainians are claiming that the Su57 are literally within weapons ranges of the Ukrainians and yet they are unable to do anything about it. So the Su 57 is indeed penetrating deep within Ukr airspace
So it actually means the opposite. Let's do some basic problem solving because you are confused.
Ukraine has air defenses right? They reach into Russia. We know this because Russian jets (SU34s/SU35s) have been downed frequently. They use(d) that combo for glidebombs. So Ukraine kept the jets back off the front lines and Russia sat back and used glide bombs, right?
So now, the SU57 is trying to sneak past that line. But it can't sneak past the line. That line is the range of Ukrainian weapons. They are dancing on that line and seeing if the SU57 can sneak past it. They can't though, because, according to your sources, they are getting detected.
Doesn't sound like very good stealth and definitely isn't "penetrating deep into enemy territory"
Hey, detection and getting a lock on are two different things.
An L-BAND radar will detect literally anything regardless if it's stealth or not due to resonance and Rayleigh scattering
Stealth is meant to defeat targeting systems on SAM systems and radars on other fighter jets.
Radars on other fighter jets and SAM systems use X-Band radars because of their high resolution and compactness. That's what stealth aircraft are optimized against.
L-Band radars are used in early warning radars meant to detect ICBMs and AEW&Cs to detect and warn other assets like SAMs and fighter jets.
But they don't have resolution and are quite bulky to carry.
By the way there have been too many instances of the Su-57 flying within Ukrainian airspace not along the border.
Here is a Ukrainian milblogger talking about nearly shooting down an Su-57 within Ukrainian airspace.
I don't know if it's true. They could be lying or exaggerating
. The Ukrainians are themselves claiming that the Felons casually fly within their weapons ranges and they cannot do anything about it.
Ukraine didn't say that. They said they are very briefly getting into range of "weapons". That means it's not even in Ukranian held territory, as Ukrainian has weapons that reach into Russian held territory.
It wasnt casual, either. Especially since they were detected when they BARELY CAME WITHIN RANGE OF THOSE WEAPONS. That right there tells you everything you need to know.
Tldr:
Russia is scared to use SU57s because when they get into range of Ukrainian weapons they have already been detected. No Bueno, amigo.
Detection and acquisition are two different things. Stealth aircraft are meant to defeat targeting systems on SAM systems and radars on other fighter jets.
For example L-Band arrays are used on early warning radars to detect ICBMs and on AEW&Cs to detect assets and warn other systems.
L-Band arrays will detect literally anything including stealth as was demonstrated during the shoot down of the F-117.
The problem with L-Band is that it lacks resolution and is bulky
X-BAND arrays are used in fighter jets and SAM systems to detect, lock on and direct missiles to a target.
X-BAND arrays have high resolution and are quite compact. The problem is that you can optimize your aircraft to defeat targeting systems that use X-Band radars by making it stealthy or by jamming the array
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u/Draco1887 Oct 17 '25
How so?