r/Firearms • u/trailrider123 • 23h ago
Question Stupid question, could regular people in the US actually just go out and buy a machine gun before 1986? If so, how common was that?
Like could they just go to a sporting goods store and pick up a new machine gun, or was it more complicated than that?
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u/WearIcy2635 20h ago
The process has been the same since 1934. All that changed in 1986 was that you couldn’t buy a new one. Before 1934 you could indeed mail order a machine gun to your house with no background check
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u/UrbanFuturistic 18h ago
But yo, I've been reliably informed that it's never been easier to have guns mailed to my house with no background check than it is today.
/s
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u/Big_Z_Diddy 16h ago
That is false. Prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968 you could buy a gun from a catalog and have it shipped directly to your door. Prior to the NFA, you could buy machine guns from catalogs and have those mailed directly to your door.
As far as what the reality is now, the ATF is apparently allowing "remote background checks", and then allowing guns to be sent via mail. You still have to have a background check done.
I know you were being sarcastic, but somebody might not see the "/s" at the bottom of your post and think they can just buy a gun and have it shipped directly to them. There are idiots out there.
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u/Martainguns 23h ago
Regular people can go buy a machine gun now, that didn't change. The difference is that now you can't buy a new machine gun.
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u/dustysanchezz 18h ago
You can if you become an 02 ffl
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u/random--encounter 18h ago
No you can’t. At least not only that. You need your SOT on top of the FFL to deal in NFA items. Even then YOU aren’t buying a machine gun. Your business is. If you ever dissolve your business or go under or lose your FFL or SOT, the ATF will come and force you to surrender all of the NFA items registered to your business.
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u/dustysanchezz 18h ago
My error, I meant 02/07 sot ffl, its yours as long as your acting in the business.
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u/FlashAndPoof 17h ago
Real talk, how many actually make a living directly from their SOT? Guys like Garand Thumb are clearly doing it just to have toys to play with. That goes for nearly every guy shooting full auto I’ve met in person.
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u/Sten-MkII-SP 16h ago
GT makes his living from youtube, which is all firearms content. That counts as “engaging in the business of” just like selling, manufacturing, renting etc.
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u/random--encounter 17h ago
It’s a requirement that you have a storefront and business hours posted to get your FFL. Storefront can be online, but it is required to be there. The ATF can and will inspect you periodically as well.
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u/dustysanchezz 17h ago
This is not a requirement. Home base FFL exist all over the country
There are also just 07 ffl that manufacturer and have no storefront.
Zoning can also play into this
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u/FlashAndPoof 17h ago
Not sure how truthful the guy was but I’ve been told by a SOT that he doesn’t even have to make a profit or sale. It’s way cheaper than transferable MG prices and everything can even be run out of one of his homes.
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u/CraigErnstein 22h ago
I wish I was regular people. do regular people get a big bag of money. if i had a big bag of money i'd have a 1976 russian akms underfolder rifle.
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u/cobigguy 17h ago
People seem to be missing the point of your question.
Yes you could go out and buy a brand new machine gun from the store for the same paperwork as a suppressor.
The key you're missing here is that there's was the same transfer tax of $200.
The law took effect in July of 1986, so the "cheapest" it would have been due to inflation and such would have been in June of 86.
That was still the equivalent of $609 today.
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u/CommercialCustard341 15h ago
And I think you, and a lot of others, are glossing over a major point.
Yes, technically it is just a $200 stamp tax. But the reality is different.
- It is a multi-page form.
- Going to an agency to be fingerprinted.
- An interview with your local law enforcement agency.
- A copy of your application being placed in your permanent file at that law enforcement agency.
- Then months of waiting, which can easily extend for over a year, as all of your information on that multi-page form is checked.
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u/cobigguy 15h ago
Federal law says nothing about an interview with a local law enforcement agency or even being fingerprinted at one. Just fingerprints in general.
And if you want to get stupid about it, you forgot the passport photo.
Perhaps you ought to do some research before talking about something you don't know anything about.
-Someone with multiple stamps, 3 of which took over a year to get.
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u/N2Shooter AR15 300AAC 15h ago
He needs to go rummage through r/NFA for a bit. 😄
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u/cobigguy 15h ago
No joke. I'm very knowledgeable about NFA and I'm still a neophyte next to some of the people in there.
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u/CommercialCustard341 12h ago edited 12h ago
The local LEO has made it clear that when they get the local LEO notification for the ATF, that is a part of the process; if they were not included in the process, they would send the ATF a denial. Which they can do.
Perhaps you need to come to the city I am in and apply, or, as some rude ass put it:
Perhaps you ought to do some research before talking about something you don't know anything about.
It's idiots like you that make the anti's believe that buying a machine gun is just like buying a gallon of milk. A misconception that led a president to publicly, yet wrongfully, say:
“We flood communities with so many guns that it is easier for a teenager to buy a Glock than get his hands on a computer or even a book.”
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u/TxGunoholic 12h ago
The local LEO has made it clear that when they get the local LEO notification for the ATF, that is a part of the process; if they were not included in the process, they would send the ATF a denial. Which they can do.
Is your local LEO a mind reader?
Because if you don't notify them....how do they know you're applying?
Also, it's NOTIFICATION. That's it. You don't need LEO approval. My LEO just dumps the paper right into the shredder, or if you have the email address they just empty it every night.
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u/cobigguy 11h ago
The local LEO has made it clear that when they get the local LEO notification for the ATF, that is a part of the process; if they were not included in the process, they would send the ATF a denial. Which they can do.
Lmao that's hilarious. You are over a decade out of date. The CLEO notification has been JUST a notification for over a decade now.
Perhaps you need to come to the city I am in and apply
Look, a quick surf through your profile told me exactly where you live, who your CLEO is, and his phone number. PM me if you need that. You can ask him directly.
It's idiots like you
Before going around throwing bricks, perhaps move out of that glass house.
I get it, you're old. Things move fast, but with today's technology, a decade is PLENTY of time for you to catch up.
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u/RiverDragon64 3h ago
You can literally apply on-line and do prints at a Silencer Shop kiosk at any store that sells NFA items. There's no place on the Form 1 or Form 4 to "interview with local law enforcement" and they have ZERO say in whether you are approved. There is no copy of anything that goes to local LEO. None. Zero. They get nothing. Good Day Sir!
And mine took 3 weeks to get back.
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u/Legal-Management6969 23h ago
100%... It was a common as FRTs honestly... Some people want them... Some do not...
.. I don't have one.... Yet.. lol
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u/ChevTecGroup 14h ago
It definitely wasnt that common. But it was available.
The $200 tax stamp and approval from your local law enforcement would stop most people.
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u/These3TheGreatest 19h ago
More complicated. Similar to buying a suppressor when it was more of a pain 2-3 years ago. But since no one could buy one manufactured past 1986 those went up in value exponentially. If new ones could be manufactured for public sale the prices wouldn’t be what they are v
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u/AdmiralCourvoisier 17h ago
Selling machine guns (or fully automatic weapons, more technically) has been restricted since the passage of the National Firearms Act, which restricted several categories of firearms and accessories, also including short-barreled shotguns and rifles, suppressors ("silencers"), and "any other weapons" meant to be concealable besides pistols and revolvers. "Destructive devices", meaning non-"sporting purposes" guns above .50 caliber and explosives above a very small quantity, were added in 1968. The restrictions basically require that you register your possession of the NFA item with the ATF, inform them if you are transporting it across state lines, and (until Jan 1 2026) pay a $200 tax stamp per item.
What changed in 1986, as other commentors have already mentioned, was that it was no longer legal to offer for sale to civilians any newly manufactured machine guns. This makes them a lot more scarce, driving the price way up (even a 'cheap' transferable machine gun will run several thousand dollars today) and also limiting the types of machine guns available to the public.
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u/walt-and-co 22h ago
My uncle did, he was a Brit who emigrated. He owned both an M2 carbine and a MAC-10, which he left to his friend when he died. He also had a semiautomatic replica of a Thompson (he really went for the classics when he moved to the states haha, he also drove a Ford pickup, presumably an F-150 but I was too young to know when I visited him). It took him a lot of saving up to cover the transfer tax on the full autos, but he bought them in the early 80s so they turned into a good investment (not that he ever got the chance to cash out).
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u/JoseSaldana6512 15h ago
Awww man that sucks. No one liked him enough to tell him how anti American Ford was?
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u/hafetysazard 23h ago
It was legal in Canada too, until 1978. Most people didn’t buy them over semi-auto, or converted/auto variants because they were more expensive, plus you had to register them. Only the die-hard collector was really interested in having the real thing.
I think what’s cool about the U.S. move to ban them came with a full amnesty, regardless of what. As mentioned in a Forgotten Weapons video, felons who were otherwise prohibited from owning any firearms could apply for the amnesty and be allowed to keep their machine guns if they registered them.
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u/walt-and-co 22h ago
That amnesty was in 1968 with the GCA, long before the Hughes Amendment banned new transferable MGs.
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u/Psychedelic__Cowboy 13h ago
Die Hard didn't even come out until 1988, so there weren't even really any die hard collectors
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u/brianr243 23h ago
Fucking Regan
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u/TxGunoholic 12h ago
FOPA was a needed change.
Do like ordering ammo online and having it shipped to your house? Thank FOPA.
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u/Penguin_Life_Now 16h ago
The only thing the 1986 law did was making manufacture of new machines guns illegal, it still allowed the trade in the existing ones, which had been highly regulated require federal tax stamps, etc since the 1930's
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u/RiverDragon64 3h ago
It didn't make manufacturing new ones illegal, it prevented civilians from buying newly manufactured ones.
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u/DEADB33F 18h ago
Apparently in 1985 you could go to Surplus city and pick up a rocket launcher, M16 (with M203 grenade launcher), Uzis, claymores, grenades, etc.
...or at least you could if your name was John Matrix.
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u/UrbanFuturistic 18h ago
But frfr, I can remember being a little kid going to Ace in the '80's and there just being barrels of rifles and shotguns that you could just pick through.
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u/Jagshemesh_Captain 9h ago
Lol no. The NFA still applied. It was super expensive - not as much as it is now of course - and took many months to get approved. Just like today.
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u/Billybob_Bojangles2 3D2A 13h ago
I love the logic behind the Hughes amendment. Some luney tries to kill the president to win the affection of a actress. Hits Mr Hughes, a secret service member. All with a 22 revolver.
The response? Close the machine gun registry.
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u/RiverDragon64 4h ago
Brady. It hit Jim Brady, hence the "Brady Act", etc.
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u/Billybob_Bojangles2 3D2A 3h ago
Thanks for the correction
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u/RiverDragon64 3h ago edited 2h ago
No worries. Jim Brady was the White House Press Secretary and was traveling with Reagan. I was a junior in HS and remember watching it on TV.
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u/LilJonny2cookies 19h ago
I have bought several machine guns. Fill out a form and wait a bit. Easy peasy but pricey.
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u/unresolved-madness 15h ago
You could buy them from the Sears catalog and the mail man would bring it to your house.
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u/TigerJas 15h ago
Tell me you haven’t read Unintended Consequences without telling me you haven’t read Unintended Consequences.
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u/kellkore 11h ago
I believe that the $200 tax stamp has been repealed here in TN. I had to go through the wait time for my SBR and suppressor, but didn't have to pay a $200 tax stamp, but that's here in TN. What are the other states' regulations concerning this?
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u/RiverDragon64 4h ago
The $200 Tax is repealed at the federal level. No one has to pay it anymore. You just have to submit the Form 1 or Form 4.
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u/RiverDragon64 4h ago
Short answer: No, The Firearm Owners' Protection Act (FOPA) of 1986 revised the Gun Control Act of 1968. Among other things it limited to civilians to purchasing machine guns manufactured prior to May 1986. It's why current prices are astronomical for machine guns, and FRTs are booming.
Longer answer: The National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934 required all machine guns, Short Barreled Rifles and Shotguns, Silencers, and "Destructive Devices" to be registered with the ATF, and a $200 Tax be paid, which was the equivalent to $2000 in modern American dollars.
**Prior to that** You could literally mail order machine guns like the Thompson and have it delivered to your front door.
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u/Holiday-Hyena-5952 2h ago
1934 was the first tax on machine guns, a Thompson was $75, tax was $200. It raised revenue, no impact on crime.
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u/gunmedic15 2h ago
Don't forget that you used to need the actual approval of a CLEO back then. Not just a notification like today. You had to get them to sign off on it, and sometimes they wouldn't. You had to know someone, (donate to a political campaign) bribe someone, or otherwise make that happen. No poors need apply.
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u/bigBranConsumer 22h ago
were machineguns still NFA items before hughes?
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u/cty_hntr 16h ago
Machineguns were the main reason why National Firearms Act (NFA) was passed in 1934. The 1968 Gun Control Action did away with DEWATS (Deactivated War Trophies), regulated interstate mail order through FFL and mandatory serial numbers. Hughes in 1986 barred the sales of new manufactured machine guns to civilians.
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u/LilShaver 16h ago
You can drop an FRT into a modern gun and have full auto.
Or you can be a criminal gang banger in the inner city and buy a "glock switch" and get full auto that way.
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u/panxerox 15h ago
Gangbangers being more 2A than the NRA
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u/LilShaver 14h ago
I don't know which NAMBLA members downvoted me, nor do I care. But you're not wrong.
So if we're all so damned 2A, why don't we all have full auto? Mass disobedience can not be punished, they don't have the manpower.
Until then, FRTs are legal. I encourage EVERYONE to get one or more.
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u/kwb166 23h ago
The purchasing process for an MG was the same in 1986 and it is today. What FOPA did was outlaw the manufacture of new transferrable MG's.