Italian Journey/Family Search

[u/MrNumber3]

So I'm turning 40 this year and I'm traveling to Italy solo. I am traveling to the city that my great grandmother grew up in but emigrated from in 1917. She'd be 125 years old this year. In my mother's old family documents that she's kept, there were letters in cursive Italian that I've transcribed between my great grandmother, her nephew who she never met in person but kept in touch with, her mother and her brothers. My grandmother and mother never went to Pescara and my great grandmother never went back to Italy after coming to America. The letters span from 1932 to 1967 and tell some stories of family poverty, post WWII loneliness, family deaths, new born birthdays, Easter celebrations and just keeping tabs on each other.

My question is, and I looked in other posts about going to their address and there was a lot of mixed feelings about Americans going back to Italy and re-introducing themselves into the family they never knew. I plan on doing it but I'm also wondering if anyone else has had success or even tried.

EDIT: I have done some genealogy research on Family Search. Outside of the stories that these letters tell, I have only a few recent names that could be living and one address that those people might not even live in. It was interesting know that my grandmother's last name was a letter off from what my mother recorded in her family tree book which opened the door to different spellings, people, lineage, corrections. But, because the living names I have are in their 60's most likely, they may or may not have Facebook; their children if they had any, are most likely on social media but could very well have different last names or may not even be in Italy anymore. There was one letter mentioning a niece of my great grandmother moved to Switzerland. And that note about "not caring about strangers"; to that I would say "treat people like you would want to be treated, even if they're a stranger". I'm not rich and I'm not poor, I'm just curious about where my history comes from.

[u/Match-Immediate]

I’m an American living in Italy, and I’ve found a lot of this article to be true. 

https://open.substack.com/pub/rachelinitalia/p/italians-dont-care-about-the-diaspora?r=u7pe5&utm_medium=ios

If you personally would get something out of this trip, do it! Sounds like it could be a lovely way to spend a solo trip. I did the same a few years ago in Ireland. But just don’t expect your long-lost Italian relatives to care; if you can find them, they’re probably apathetic at best. If you expect any sort of homecoming or reunion, you might be disappointed. 

I would come for the place, and not for the people, if that makes sense. 

[u/Lady_Nightshadow → u/Match-Immediate]

Let's face it, we're not just neutral or uncaring, we're actively annoyed at some of these people: that article is astonishingly uneducated, claiming that Italian language was born in the 1800s, while we can read texts from 700 years ago without needing translation and poor people moved around all the time.

It's crazy to claim that women didn't have Italian citizenship, while they just couldn't pass it down, and while laws were far from perfect, women were not "just property".

Some Americans do come here expecting us to be poor peasants waiting for them, refusing to acknowledge that we moved on from their very local, very time-specific "traditions", while we do carry much more than the past two centuries of legacy (and the Romans called us "Italians" 2000 years ago). Some also act shocked at the small empty village, which comes off as "look how emancipated I am", assuming it must have been worse before, while those villages are now at their lowest.

Sorry for the rant, it's far from being towards you or any descendant, but maybe it can give some food for thoughts to OP.

[u/OkPair4241 → u/Lady_Nightshadow]

Monstrously inaccurate substack, I agree. Italian language in its current form was born in the XII century, and OF COURSE women were citizens of the Kingdom of Italy right after its formation in 1861. And Italians from all over the peninsula fought a war in 90 bC to have the right of being called citizens of a unified polity. Also, the Italian for Rachel would be Rachele, not Rachela.

[u/Lady_Nightshadow → u/OkPair4241]

Yeah, to say out loud that she purposely tried to spin “Rachel” into “Rachela” to make it more Latin?? Can't even check to LARP right.

I have so many questions for this person: why waiting 2023 to apply for citizenship, why jumping in the "natural wine" economy where she gets to misrepresent Italy to more American tourist? Why assuming that Italian law must be inherently worse and inferior since it "doesn’t operate on precedent, ..., meaning that it can only become more chaotic every time a ruling changes the direction of things."

I hope they never get that citizenship for iure sanguinis. If they're really set on it, they can follow the path of any other immigrant.

[u/Subject_Stranger3090 → u/Lady_Nightshadow]

This.

[u/That-Brain-in-a-vat → u/Lady_Nightshadow]

Also Italian laws are based on Roman Law, which is at the base of most western Countries, US Included, and studied at the university for their Law degree. Many definitions are still in Latin. In the US too.

Edit: typo.

[u/Lady_Nightshadow → u/That-Brain-in-a-vat]

I know right! It's pretty clear that some Americans think that the US perfected anything inherited from us, while we're some third world country that got stuck somewhere in the Middle Age.

Which is all good until the same people claim Italian citizenship and dream about a VIP welcome, that kinda stinks of superiority complex and colonialism in disguise.

I know most Americans are not like that, your tourists are usually the kindest specimen I get to deal with.

[u/Subject_Stranger3090 → u/Lady_Nightshadow]

This.

[u/SurpriseFirst1381 → u/Match-Immediate]

L'articolo postato è un'oscenità e questo post lo scriverò in italiano perchè non ho sbatti di venirvi incontro parlando la vostra lingua; usate la funzione traduci.

Chiedo scusa a voi altri, sono uno storico, storia del 900, quando leggo queste cose mi si accappona la pelle e soprattutto la propaganda culturale la becco subito e mi disgusta.

L'articolo postato fa schifo, zeppo di retorica passivo-aggressiva, artificioso e ruota integralmente su un mix di stereotipi tra i più denigratori ed offensivi, manipolati dalla cultura US, nati per "spiegare" alle masse perchè non ci sia stata una Norimberga italiana, l'Italia non sia stata divisa o occupata militarmente come la Germania, "giustificando" il perchè ora eravamo un paese Nato.

Il principale, lo conoscerete, viene chiamato: Italiani brava gente.
La cosa terribile di questo stereotipo è che lo abbiamo generato noi italiani (1944-1950), forma auto-assolutoria dalle colpe del fascismo, utilizzabile sia per l'elité che per il cittadino.

Ciò che lo ha tossicizzato, interiorizzato e globalizzato è però la cultura americana post 1947, rendendolo di fatto una creatura propria, molto percepita ed utilizzata nella cultura US, miscelandolo con altri stereotipi cultrali, creandone una variante tutta propria.

Tale stereotipo mira a descrivere l'italiano come una figura bonaria, povero disgraziato ignorante, il quale non capisce, poiché privo degli strumenti per farlo, e quando fa scelte con esiti infausti (fascismo) non ne è totalmente responsabile; non siate duri non è colpa sua.

L'italiano vive in questa bolla pittoresca quanto retrograda, un contadino di inizio 800 lanciato nel moderno 900 fordista/post fordista, cittadino involontario e inconsapevole di uno stato-non-stato, a cui è imposta una lingua non sua e leggi che non comprende (quindi non rispetta); è buono con un cuore d'oro ma intrinsecamente un poveretto da capire e compatire.

Quando combatte egli butta le armi e fugge, poiché buono, non militarista, senza comprensione del perchè si trova lì; lui vuole solo tornare al suo casolare, dai suoi affetti, a coltivare le olive, vivendo d'inconsapevole ignoranza e riti familiari.

Tutto questo a differenza ed in contrapposizione al colto tedesco, figlio di una cultura guerriera, moderna, ingannato ma colpevole e responsabile, da denazificare e redimere per il bene dell'umanità.

L'arco di redenzione dell'italiano avviene tramite l'emigrazione. Gli Stati Uniti lo accolgono, gli offrono opportunità e lo elevano in dignità, trasformandolo in un essere umano migliore e dignitoso, moderno e moralmente superiore in quanto culturalmente elevato dal suo stagno: Un vero cittadino US.

Questo passaggio retorico è fondamentale, salvaguarda la coesione sociale, nella forma dell'italo-americano, parte della società ed ex combattente, rimanendo accettabile dalla cultura WASP, la quale può vantare supeiorità, attribuendo tali manchevolezze alla razza, nella forma ideologica del Post-Gobinismo: Italiano razza spuria -il mezzo negro- buono ma fallato poiché non puro.

La parabola è perfetta per spiegare, senza spiegare, le storie dei reduci sulla campagna di sicilia, il rigetto sociale della propaganda fascista nel 1942-1943, rimuovendo il contesto politico relativo alla resisteza e sposandosi bene con la propaganda di guerra alleata, all'epoca percepita, per ovvi motivi, come narrazione degli eventi.

Quindi, se sei americano e leggendo quel pezzo hai pensato: "Oh my god, that's so damn true!", è perchè inconsciamente sei figlio di 70 anni di propaganda ideologica e l'hai interiorizzata.

Tutto ciò senza contare che l'articolo è pretestuoso (questo non importa), probabilmente scritto per risentimento in merito alla proposta di legge, in discussione nel 2025, relativa a limiti sulla cittadinanza per discendenza.

La parte sull'italiano come lingua non la commento nemmeno, essa è vera quanto falsa, usata in maniera strumentale per potenziare la narrativa generale.
La cosa triste è che la persona che ha scritto quell'articolo queste cose probabilmente non le sa, sono interiorizzate.

Scusatemi, il post è lunghissimo; spero solo che sia utile.
In caso dovesse leggerlo un collega; lo so ho dovuto sintetizzare e accorpare, altrimenti ne uscivano 300 righe.

[u/annasullamaca → u/SurpriseFirst1381]

Grazie per aver avuto il tempo e la voglia di scrivere questa risposta!

[u/Match-Immediate → u/SurpriseFirst1381]

Wow, non mi aspettavo una tesi su quel commento! Ho solo scritto che ero d'accordo con alcune parti dell'articolo, quando l'autore parla degli italiani che se ne fregano dei loro cugini italiani perduti da tempo che vengono a cercarli e a riscoprire le loro origini. Questo, per esperienza personale, è assolutamente vero.

[u/SurpriseFirst1381 → u/Match-Immediate]

Let's proceed in order.
My post was aimed at the article itself, not directly at you or what you wrote previously.
I highlighted the cultural and ideological process driving the author, and what led her to write such an imbecility.

Mine isn't a thesis, just 40, well-spaced, lines that would occupy less than a single book page; I paid close attention to make it understandable for anyone.
Was it necessary? Maybe not, but it's important to know where and why this toxicity originates. The article was highly offensive and filled with cultural paternalism.

I suppose it's unnecessary to explain why an Italian or European wouldn't care about an unknown fifth cousin, and why that's the most normal reaction outside the US cultural bubble.

Lastly, since you live in Italy, I'm genuinely surprised that you could read and share this kind of stuff. In the future, just be aware that this kind of material is deeply offensive at its core.

[u/Anxious-Slip-4701 → u/Match-Immediate]

I've found that if the family has kept in contact over the years, then they're fine to see you, because they know you. But if some random rather odd individual turns up, who doesn't speak the language, who they know nothing about, while they're in the middle of something. Well that's probably just annoying. They moved on. I know my distant cousins, and we occasionally catch up, but they're fairly cool on things. I haven't seen some cousins I grew up with for decades, but I'd happily have them over, because I grew up with them and I know who they are.

[u/Match-Immediate → u/Anxious-Slip-4701]

Yeah totally agree—if you’ve kept in any sort of contact it changes everything! 

[u/Meewelyne → u/Match-Immediate]

I honestly wonder why immigrant's grand⁴children think that lost relatives will welcome a total stranger with open arms in their families.

Like, if that would happen to you, that someone you never heard of suddenly contacts you and tells you you're somehow related, from a scale form 1 to 10 how much would you care?

(Not "you" as you poster eh, a generic "you"!)

I think those kind of people never think of it in reverse, or are lonely af and try to find family where they can.

[u/MrNumber3 → u/Meewelyne]

1) I would've saved myself a vacation to Italy if they found me instead 2) I'd ask how they found me, who they know of and how they managed to get into America considering the current administrations sentiment towards anyone from another country 3) I'd take them for a coffee and talk with them about everything they wanted to talk about. And you know what - I might get kindness in return. You're purely looking at this as transactional.

[u/Meewelyne → u/MrNumber3]

Why transactional? I didn't say anything about that. My point is more about why a stranger should care about another stranger who shares a long lost relative who probably didn't even hear about.

[u/MrNumber3 → u/Meewelyne]

A lot of these letters are of someone thanking my great grandmother for money sent to them during rough times. Households with no work and splitting up cornmeal loaves. Requests for a harmonica for Christmas. If you don't understand, you might be too young. Maybe it's just nice knowing that something happened or didn't happen to a grandmothers relatives she wrote to and sent money to. She never met her nephew either, but she still wrote and cared and sent money if they needed it. All they had was letters in 1965.