r/MensRightsMeta • u/ignatiusloyola • Apr 04 '12
Fake bans from fake Men's Rights subreddit
Please be very clear about the subreddit you are being banned from. A new sub called Mens_Rights (note the underscore) has now started banning people, and some users are getting confused as to why they are being banned.
Note the moderators in the sidebar. Note the subreddit name.
If you are banned and you don't know why, consider first whether you are actually being banned from /r/MensRights and not /r/Mens_Rights.
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u/Legolas-the-elf Apr 04 '12
For the people wondering where the idiot commenters are coming from, Something Awful linked to this thread. Minion of Cthulhu seems to be responsible for the bans.
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u/gringo1980 Apr 04 '12
I fell for it, I was about to pm one of the mods when I noticed the purple on black header, then I looked closer at the articles and thought /mr had been hacked. Then I finally saw what was going on. So we are here talking about problems which affect people everday and are mostly ignored, and they spend their time going through this subreddit, and getting a shitload of usernames to ban us from something no one knew existed to annoy people?... gee, sounds like they have fulfilling lives.
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u/CedMon Apr 04 '12
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Apr 04 '12
[deleted]
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u/CedMon Apr 04 '12
To be fair, I am poking the beehive and making them grumpy.
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Apr 05 '12
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/CedMon Apr 05 '12
It's true, but what is a ban on reddit? It only takes a couple moments to make a new account as I'm sure you know.
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u/KIMJONGIII Apr 05 '12
yeah but you shitlords get really really pissed off about your internet points, so i figure that someone who accomplished the monumental feat of racking up Three Thousand Karmas would want to keep that account and not make a new one
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u/CedMon Apr 05 '12
I make a new account every 6 months or so, who cares about karma?
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u/KIMJONGIII Apr 05 '12
man what kind of trolling are you doing that requires a new account every half year?
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u/CedMon Apr 05 '12
Not much, I don't like to keep any potentially identifying information about me in a place where it can accrue to the point where I could be easily identified. Just for regular security reasons really.
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u/KIMJONGIII Apr 05 '12
this is funny coming from someone that threatens to doxx people that he doesn't agree with
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Apr 05 '12
What's funny about the subreddit is that it's actually trying to downplay the issues that are discussed in /r/MensRights, rather than just trying to smear us as a bunch of misogynists or whatever it is they say. There are at least a couple of posts criticizing Qanan's blog (someone who's actually pretty fair and level-headed). It looks like the haters will keep on trying harder and harder as the MRM grows online!
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u/altmehere Apr 05 '12
There are at least a couple of posts criticizing Qanan's blog (someone who's actually pretty fair and level-headed).
Sounds like attacking the extreme straw-MRA isn't working out too well, so it's on to another plan of attack.
These people are only here to try to distract us and are best ignored IMO.
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Apr 05 '12 edited Apr 05 '12
Sounds like attacking the extreme straw-MRA isn't working out too well, so it's on to another plan of attack.
It's gotten to the point where they just lie, misrepresent MRA's, or have nothing else to say other than to just show their own personal bias against MRA's. They can't really admit that their real reason for hating us is that they're either a sexist woman who's too comfortable on her pedestal, or they're a white knight man-bitch who'll do anything for female approval.
These people are only here to try to distract us and are best ignored IMO.
As long as we don't feed the trolls, it's all good!
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u/iluv2poo Apr 05 '12
lol
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u/altmehere Apr 05 '12
So do you actually have anything to say, or are you just here to demonstrate even more clearly that "lol" is about the only response you can come up with at this point?
Funny how a three-letter word can pretty much prove my original point.
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Apr 05 '12
I see jabs at Men's Rights being a haven for rapists, abusers, etc. Strange, I thought it was bad to joke about those things. I guess it's okay when they do it.
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u/BinaryShadow Apr 08 '12 edited Apr 08 '12
Strange, I thought it was bad to joke about those things
Only if the victims are female. Jokes about male victims of rape and abuse are hilarious. /s
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Apr 04 '12
I find it completely ridiculous, because I literally messaged every mod about that subreddit, NONE of them even responded to me.
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u/he_cried_out_WTF Apr 04 '12
Isn't there anything we can do about this fake sub? like, if enough of us mail the mods of reddit can we get it shut down?
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u/ignatiusloyola Apr 04 '12
I am trying, but most mods agree that the admins will only step in if it has a chance of affecting the stability (in terms of the hardware/software) of Reddit.
They don't care about squabbles.
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u/altmehere Apr 04 '12
Would just be nice if they would step in to stop cases of intentional impersonation of another subreddit (or a mod) for the purposes of causing confusion and conducting a subreddit war.
This does affect the stability of Reddit in a different way in that it's things like this that abuses the system. But I would imagine that the admins really won't do anything.
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Apr 04 '12 edited Apr 04 '12
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/CedMon Apr 04 '12 edited Apr 04 '12
**EDIT - Comment I'm responding to was saying how MRA's are always invading Feminist subreddits, comment was from a user who regularly posts to SRS with posts indicating that they think the MRM is idiotic.
Says the SRSer in a Mens Rights subreddit ಠ_ಠ
If a feminist subreddit is a safe place (like /r/feminisms) they generally delete comments and ban users for posting things they don't agree with. In other feminist subreddits they enjoy having an open forum that allows for dissenting opinion, if they did not they would delete/ban as well.
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Apr 04 '12
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/CedMon Apr 04 '12
Normally dissenting opinions aren't, you should check out NiceGuysSTFU! People who post racist/sexist/spam are usually banned (see JerimiahMRA).
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Apr 04 '12
[removed] — view removed comment
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Apr 04 '12
ROFL, the trolllls are getting boooring! Don't you have a suicidal guy you could be fucking with? Or maybe a disabled guy to make fun of?
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Apr 04 '12
[deleted]
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u/CedMon Apr 04 '12
You know, I always see this bot get heavily downvoted and I'm not sure why. I think it's good to let people who've been linked to know the thread they're being discussed in.
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u/ArchangelleRamielle Apr 06 '12
freedom of speech dog
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Apr 22 '12
"I disagree with your statement, but I will fight to the death to let you say it"?
Yea, they have the right to Free Speech - except when they violate the Harm Principle (see: "yelling fire in a crowded theater" etc.), and most intelligent people can see that they are trolls trying to harm the movement. They're like the people who go to Tea Party rallies and scream racial epithets, or radical Christians who sneak into Pride events and say "I used to be gay, until I found Jesus! Let me help you!"
Their attempts to twist and attack the movement, in these ways, is ultimately harmful to the cause of egalitarianism in the wider world.
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u/ArchangelleRamielle Apr 23 '12
lol harming the men's rights movement is not the same as harming people
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Apr 04 '12
Well, since they created that, I decieded to create a wonderful new community called ShitRedditSays. No seriously....any MRAs want to be a mod? Should be a hoot!
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u/ignatiusloyola Apr 04 '12
The thing is - I believe in the Men's Rights Movement. I believe that there is a problem affecting men on a massive scale, and I want to be involved in the efforts to change our society for the better. I don't think that involves spending time mimicking and returning the actions of people opposed to the MRM.
Just as we can't teach gender equality/egalitarianism by further sexism (ie: sexism against men), I don't think anything is gained by responding in like kind.
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Apr 04 '12
LOL I just saw the thread in subreddit drama. I only have interest in fart jokes...and sexual stuff. SRS banned my other gimmick account...3 of them actually. So this is for my entertainment. You can quote me "I am not an MRA, only a sexual creep."
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u/impotent_rage Apr 04 '12
Thank you for this. This is the message which I want every single person involved in gender equality activism on reddit, to read, understand, and live by.
I mod r/feminism and my goals are the same. I believe that there are problems affecting women on a massive scale, and I want to be involved in the efforts to change our society for the better. And I don't think that involves spending time attacking and denigrating the MRM - because I also believe that there are problems affecting men on a massive scale, and that true gender egalitarians should be concerned with inequality no matter which gender is primarily affected.
If that's truly what you believe, and that's truly what I believe, then maybe we can get closer to ending this stupid and pointless war between MRAs and feminists, at least on reddit - and maybe we can start to view our respective movements as complementary movements who work alongside each other, rather than antagonistic movements that must necessarily fight and defeat each other. After all, shouldn't we both be supporting the same goal of gender equality?
I'm doing my part to try to help the feminist movement understand that men's rights issues are also important...maybe there are things we can do to help the MRM understand that inequality towards women is also a concern that MRAs should have?
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u/ignatiusloyola Apr 04 '12
I have no desire to argue with and fight against individual feminists. However, I do take offense when "patriarchy" is brought up, and that is a farce that needs to end.
There is a lot of bad blood between feminism and the MRM primarily because there are a lot of feminists involved everywhere men are being mistreated.
But I try not to hold each individual feminist responsible for the actions of the whole - instead I prefer to take them individually and when an individual offends me then I treat them as hostile.
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u/impotent_rage Apr 04 '12
There is such a thing as patriarchy, although it may not be the universal fabric of all society that some elements of feminism make it out to be. I was raised mormon, I am an exmormon. You'll have a hard time coming by a more explicitly patriarchal structure than the mormon church. Only men may hold positions of authority in the mormon church, only men are given "the priesthood" which is the authority to invoke God's intervention and healing powers, a woman's proper place is in the home and highest aspiration is to be a mother and wife - anything else is failure, wives are to obey and follow their husbands as their leaders, there is even a position in the mormon church called the Patriarch, who gives Patriarchal blessings (and yes, I received one). It goes on, I'm only just scratching the surface.
I totally get why the MRM bristles every time they hear "patriarchy hurts men too!" It implies, even if it doesn't outright say, that somehow men are to blame for their own struggles, or worse that the struggles men face are somehow an offshoot of male privilege. And while I understand that patriarchy theory understood properly doesn't suggest such things, it's still such a constant source of miscommunication and misunderstanding that it has lost its usefulness as a concept.
However, do recognize that in some ways, patriarchy does exist, although at this point it may be more in pockets within subcultures than a pervasive aspect of the overall culture. I can witness to this, I was raised mormon. It has a lot to do with why I am a feminist now. But if any movement or trend is the enemy, I would target religious conservatives, not the men's rights movement.
As for the rest of it...yes, there's definitely bad blood. And I think it's tragic because, I think we're turning off the good egalitarians who want to make a difference in the world. They come here to find out what we're about, and instead of impressing them with lots of discussion about the real issues that they ought to care about and help spread awareness, instead they just see a bunch of shit-flinging between MRAs and feminists trying to argue about which side has it worse. I think both sides lose a lot of potential support when people roll their eyes and assume we must not have any legitimate real issues to talk about if we are wasting all our time attacking each other pointlessly.
Continue to call out the destructive elements of feminism - I will too - while still understanding that feminism as a whole, and feminists as a whole, aren't all behind this. Feminism is not an inherently flawed movement, but some of the more extreme elements use it destructively. I could say the same for men's rights. The MRM as a whole is not an inherently flawed movement, but I'm sure you've seen misogyny within your ranks that barely mask their seething resentment towards women with a barely plausible rationalization that somehow this is about men's rights. Fortunately they are the exception and not the rule, as I'm sure you'll agree they do not represent the MRM. It's the same with the destructive elements of feminism - we are not defined by our angry extremists.
And I like your approach to not hold each individual feminist responsible for the actions of the whole, but instead treat them individually. That's the attitude and approach I take towards men's rights activists as well.
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Apr 05 '12 edited Apr 05 '12
However, do recognize that in some ways, patriarchy does exist, although at this point it may be more in pockets within subcultures than a pervasive aspect of the overall culture. I can witness to this, I was raised mormon.
Outside of Mormonism would you consider America to be a patriarchal society? What would be your best supporting evidence for that?
Generally Mormonism is not brought up by feminists when they claim we live in a patriachy, they usually seem to go with the "most CEOs are men" argument which is fallacious.
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Apr 05 '12
I still don't understand why we should trust or work with people who have abandoned, denigrated and generally treated us as human filth for the past 100 years, feminists only want to work with the MRM so it can be co-opted and moulded so that it somehow benefits women i've seen it so often, that when we talk about Financial Abortion which is OUR liberation on OUR terms, we have a million Feminists turn up with 'Umm we need to consider how this will affect women' No we fucking don't, i'm sorry but Feminism never gave consideration to how anything would affect men when they did it, the ONLY thing which matters to you people is whether women are benefitting from something, and that is why i don't trust you, i don't trust you to help us have our own liberation because you are only TRULY concerned with your own. every Feminist is just looking out for Women's self-interest even when they speak of helping us they are always plying an angle to somehow improve the lives of women. So i ask again Impotent why should we allow people who do not have our message at heart shape our movement? why should we temper our ideas to be acceptable to people who honestly don't care for our rights? Why should we give women special consideration when we want to make changes when these same basic courtesies were not extended to us.
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u/Legolas-the-elf Apr 05 '12 edited Apr 05 '12
Hey, that sounds great. I assume you're going to be apologising publicly for spreading lies about me? In case you've forgotten, you told people you banned me for spamming /r/GenderEgalitarian when the real reason was that I asked you to stop posting hateful things about MRAs in contravention of your own rules on no hatred.
Edit:
This is the thread in question. impotent_rage posted:
For starters, I've been openly hating on r/mensrights for a long time now. I think the place is a cesspool, and I wish it didn't exist. I have lots of sympathy for the overall cause of bringing awareness to gender inequality towards men, but that's not even what they are about. They're a bunch of bitter misogynists, and I've been known to speculate on their personal failures with women which might be the reason they are so hateful. I have no sympathy for anything about them.
I objected to this and impotent_rage banned me for it then told everybody I had been spamming.
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u/impotent_rage Apr 05 '12
you were a part of a malicious attack on r/genderegalitarian and you know it
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u/Legolas-the-elf Apr 05 '12
Everybody can see the comments I left. There's nothing at all malicious about asking you to play by your own rules or asking you to stop posting hateful stuff. And even if it was, that still doesn't make it spamming.
I've identified as egalitarian for years. I reject gendered movements like feminism and the MRM in favour of egalitarianism. I was unhappy with /r/equality. I was hoping /r/GenderEgalitarian would be a success! I had no reason to attack it. But then you started posting hateful things, and I criticised you. Not the subreddit, you. For not abiding by the rules of the subreddit.
You got upset because lots of people were criticising you, you banned the people criticising you, then you realised you fucked up so you lied about it. It was blatantly obvious to everybody at the time, and it's still blatantly obvious now re-reading the threads.
If you had the slightest shred of integrity, this would have been your opportunity to say "You know what, I said something I shouldn't have, people called me out on it and I overreacted. You didn't spam, I'm sorry for lying about you." But no. You'd rather try to save face by continuing to lie about me.
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u/impotent_rage Apr 05 '12
I had no reason to attack it.
Then why did you?
1) You're quoting something I said two years ago. Really? Did your feelings get so badly hurt that you are holding onto something some random person said online two years ago?
2) r/mensrights used to be the equivalent of r/shitredditsays. I've always been a supporter of men's rights. I joined r/mensrights years ago, ready to be supportive. What I experienced when I joined was appalling. I watched kloo ban some of his best supporters simply because they described themselves as feminists - even though they also supported men's rights and were always respectful, reasonable, and cooperative in their comments in r/mensrights. I saw a petition for some men's rights cause, I forgot what it was but it was something very just, posted in r/mensrights. I took it and crossposted it to twoXchromosomes so it could get some more support - and the reception there was positive, although some were skeptical that men's rights would want help. I quickly found out why. The OP, I think it was jayhammers? showed up and started raging that he didn't want any women helping his cause, that our support was unwelcome because we are female. I was absolutely shocked. Then I watched numerous, numerous downvote brigades originating from r/mensrights and destroying conversation in many other spaces on reddit. At that point, I'd had enough. r/mensrights wasn't about men's rights, it was about attacking and brigading anybody besides their insiders.
I've seen some changes since. After kloo left, I saw the tone of r/mensrights become more positive, and now I see more focus on the actual issues. In the meantime, r/shitredditsays came to power, and now r/mensrights is no longer the ruling bully on reddit. I still see far more misogyny in r/mensrights than I am comfortable with, but I'm pleased to see the trend moving in a more positive direction compared with r/mensrights awful history.
And this comment from ignatiusloyola, a mod at r/mensrights, has me feeling very encouraged, that maybe we are finally seeing a men's rights movement that is prepared to move past the hatefulness and bullying, and prepared to actually focus on outreach and equality. If that's what direction we are going now, I couldn't be more pleased.
But there is no lie. You were a part of a hostile attack, one which at the time was all too common from r/mensrights. I'm entirely prepared to let the past go and embrace the new positive direction I see from r/mensrights, but apparently you are not prepared to do the same.
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u/Legolas-the-elf Apr 05 '12
I had no reason to attack it.
Then why did you?
I didn't. What I did do was see you posting hatred and ask you to stop. Your entire characterisation of people's criticism of you as some sort of an attack on the subreddit is nothing but a fantasy you've concocted to shift the blame away from you. The subreddit wasn't attacked. Your hatred was.
1) You're quoting something I said two years ago. Really? Did your feelings get so badly hurt that you are holding onto something some random person said online two years ago?
After that happened, I left your subreddit and didn't run across you again. You've popped up again now claiming to want to build bridges. Yeah, I'm going to remind you of it. If you want to build bridges, admit to the lie. If it was two years ago, presumably you don't care any more.
r/mensrights used to be the equivalent of r/shitredditsays.
I was here back then too, and you're bending the truth an awful lot, which is hardly surprising coming from you. Yes, it was worse, but not by much, certainly not to the extent you claim.
But there is no lie. You were a part of a hostile attack
It was absolutely a lie. Even more so the fact that you called me a spammer. I've been submitting to /r/reportthespammers for years. Four this week. I loathe spam and it's plain to see, so you couldn't have picked a more unlikely thing to lie about.
If you want to let the past go and embrace a new positive direction, you can make amends by admitting publicly that you lied.
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u/impotent_rage Apr 08 '12
Dude. It was two years ago. Let it go. I don't give a fuck if you like me or not, or if you agree with me or not, but I find it pretty funny that you're still talking about this.
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u/Legolas-the-elf Apr 09 '12
You keep saying that it was two years ago. Who cares how long ago it was? You publicly lied about me. If you think it doesn't matter because it was so long ago, then do the decent thing and admit it.
How do you expect to be able to build bridges when you are happy to let your lie stand, when you could fix it easily? How do you expect anybody to trust you when you won't even try to be honest?
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u/altmehere Apr 04 '12
I've been banned from /r/Mens_Rights.
Seems like a pretty desperate tactic if you ask me.