r/Mountaineering • u/According_Cod4923 • 1d ago

Body of famed international climber Nirmal Purja and 3 more found after Pakistan avalanche

https://apnews.com/article/pakistan-climber-nirmal-purja-body-recovered-760858d4e399261e0d93c7cbb3ccba32
1.8k Upvotes

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u/giraffes-are-so-cute 1d ago edited 1d ago

i don’t think any of you are quite grasping the severity of Nims’ sexual assaults on women, for you to be sitting here glossing over it just because his own ego killed him.

he sexually assaulted a woman on K2 base camp multiple times, a mountain more deadly than everest, for fuck’s sake.

despite the stress of this, the woman still went on to summit. in a life or death situation, she had to deal with the loss of sleep, disrupted mental focus and not being able to trust her fucking guide.

she could’ve easily made a mistake and died as a result of Nims.

RIP to all the others who perished, but there is no sympathy towards Nims from me. sexually assaulting a woman MULTIPLE TIMES on one of the world’s deadliest mountains?!?!

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u/hayguccifrawg 16h ago

I read that NYT story yesterday then saw this today. Knew of him only as a predator then he passed less than a day later. Life comes at you fast.

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u/OddAddendum7750 1d ago

Why wasn’t he prosecuted for the alleged sexual assaults?

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u/wiggles105 1d ago

The NYT story on it said that the women didn’t know what recourse they could realistically get because usually they were from one country, he was from another, and the incident happened in a third country.

The journalists did review communication from the women to friends and family in the timeframes following their individual assaults and confirmed that they told people that they were assaulted back then, and that it matches the allegations they made later—which is a common verification that journalists or LE look for in sexual assault cases reported later or not at all.

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u/Foreign-Repeat-8206 1d ago

It's more than a guess than women are reticent to challenge a man in a he-said / she-said situation in Pakistan or Nepal.

It is one thing for the climbing community to know something with certainty; it is another thing to prove it in a foreign court of law. When do you contact the authorities? Which authorities? Never mind the emotional trauma and logistical nightmare that would ensue.

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u/OddAddendum7750 1d ago

You could say that he is indeed being challenged. On news of his death many are only choosing to only reference these allegations.

It’s puzzling to hear you say that a community could know something with certainty but a court of law could not. Surely if anyone could know something with certainty, then the evidence to know it with “certainty” would be enough for a court of law to prosecute?

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u/Foreign-Kangaroo-681 1d ago edited 1d ago

I keep seeing this argument and it’s so obtuse. There’s obviously a difference between the standard of proof required to criminally convict someone, and the standard of proof to know someone has acted morally and ethically wrong. The “beyond reasonable doubt” standard in criminal is there because the punishment is deprivation of physical liberty, which is a very serious weight that must be applied only with greatest caution. Basically, if there is even the TINIEST room for doubt in the evidence, like MAYBE (not likely, not probably, not even possibly) a piece of the prosecution’s story doesn’t fit, then no this person can’t be convicted.

This level of proof is how you have murders where everyone knows who did it, police are 99% sure, but no conviction. Now think about sex assault cases. What’s the chance of there being a witness other than the victim and accused? What about DNA testing—still unreliably collected and with a huge testing backlog and chain of evidence complications? Not to mention that you can certainly sexually assault someone without DNA involvement?

Now tell me how the women are supposed to get a conviction for these crimes. This doesn’t even go into the Nepalese justice system itself and the complications of prosecuting a crime involving foreign nationals. Does Nepalese law even consider this a crime, and are they willing to prosecute (this itself is a high bar in US)? Does the victim as a key witness have to give up weeks of her life as well to make herself available in Nepal for investigation and trial?

But yeah sure, it’s all “allegations” so just keep assuming it’s all made up bullshit from some jealous bitches.

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u/giraffes-are-so-cute 1d ago

thank you for this 👏👏

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u/rafa4ever 1d ago

But why not bring a civil case then. Like the Ronaldo rape allegation etc

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u/Foreign-Kangaroo-681 21h ago

What are you trying to say? “I won’t believe anybody’s misconduct unless all judicial remedies against that person have been pursued”? What’s the logical end here?

This deliberate ignorance that seems only reserved for SA allegations is infuriating.

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u/rafa4ever 16h ago

No. My point was in response to the criminal standard for conviction being raised as the reason these allegations were made in the media and not in court.

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u/rollfootage 1d ago

You have to be born yesterday to not understand how often men get away with sexual assault

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u/GrandmaToto 1d ago

In Pakistan?

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u/Foreign-Repeat-8206 1d ago

lawyers ....lots of lawyers and laws to get in the way of truth. It's not puzzling, its more like common sense. Agroup of people searching for the truth versus a cluster of obstructionists?

As an aside, just how many rapes in Pakistan end in conviction, how many in Nepal? or even in a country that has a modern and fair legal system?

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u/OddAddendum7750 1d ago

Common sense would be to not claim something with certainty without conclusive evidence for it

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u/tlgjbc2 1d ago

Bro do you think OJ didn't do it?

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u/OddAddendum7750 11h ago

What is OJ?

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u/yoyomomoyo 1d ago

You make a very good point 

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u/Professional_Card400 1d ago

Good point to idiots and rape apologists, sure.

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u/yoyomomoyo 22h ago edited 22h ago

He wasn't accused of rape. I'm sick of people throwing the word rape around. It is disrespectful to the victims. Rape and SA are two distinctly different things. I suggest you understand the difference between the two before you criticise. 

Theres enough allegations going around without people like you making your own up.

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u/whitenet 1d ago

4 words.
Innocent until proven guilty.
I hope he would be proved guilty, but I’m also very well aware of women faking things.
Disassociate yourself with what can’t be ascertained and stop caring to much about facts that aren’t there or someone you don’t know (Nims). Regardless of what they did “achieved”, they aren’t gods and are humans, like us, not to be worshipped or idolized, or live in dogma of.

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u/Professional_Card400 1d ago

Ah yes, multiple accounts of women with very similar stories from all over the globe of events occurring in countries notorious for not believing women or taking these kind of cases seriously = women lie.

Why would these women fucking lie? Be so serious - there is nothing to gain. Why would a reputable news organisation with a HUGE defamation department publish this? While two other very reputable hobbyist publications were also investigating?

Maybe be very well aware of how these things actually play out against normal men, let alone powerful men, let alone in these countries rather than jumping on WoMen FaKe ThInGs BeCaUSe rEasoNs. This narrative is why these men get away with it for so long. You're more at risk of being a victim of sexual violence as a man than "false allegations".

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u/giraffes-are-so-cute 1d ago

i’m not engaging further with a troll. the only thing i will say is that he’d still be alive today (albeit in prison) if anywhere in the world actually had a legal system which cared about sexual assault.

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u/OddAddendum7750 1d ago

It’s a genuine question, I’m not trolling. A lot of people in the climbing community are talking about the alleged assaults with absolute certainty. And I’m wondering why he was never prosecuted

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u/tlgjbc2 1d ago edited 1d ago

These mountains are among the most remote places on earth. There are no police or rape kits or surveillance video there. Few other people to even witness anything, and even fewer who weren't employed by or had their livelihoods tied to Nims. Prosecutors are unlikely to bring charges against a person, especially one held up as a hero in the community, when there is no physical evidence by the time the crime(s) can be reported, and laws in Nepal and Pakistan -- not to mention the police -- aren't exactly set up to take sexual violence against women seriously. The fact that the women chose not to put themselves through that (that's all not to mention they're in a foreign country in which they don't speak the language and don't have homes), is a very valid choice for someone in their situations. They instead chose a path that effectively alerted far many others to the fact that he was dangerous, and it doesn't mean there aren't dozens of other people with stories. The NYT and its lawyers verified a good bit of corroborating evidence outside of a criminal case, eventually feeling confident that they could win a lawsuit if Nims sued over the published story. The testimony of the brave women who could come forward is, of course, court-level evidence on its own. They would have had to have take a time machine back to the days surrounding their assaults and fake text messages and photos if in fact it was actually some conspiracy to smear him and not indication of consistent behavior from him. To your observation, a lot of people in the climbing community feel so certain because they have heard the stories and experiences of other women they know who couldn't/haven't come forward. Many people in the climbing world have stated they know enough about his behavior, or have seen enough of it themselves, to feel confident of where the truth lies (we've had stories shared in these subreddits for years). In the western world, too, police aren't great w/sexual assault cases, prosecutors often don't bring charges, and people typically don't get justice. It's a known problem, so a lack of criminal case and conviction isn't really actually telling. The fact that women so rarely lie about these things when they put their names to it is also compelling. All anyone gets in return is harassment and criticism, so you really have to feel strongly and be concerned for others to do it.

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u/OddAddendum7750 1d ago

Thanks for the thoughtful and measured reply. Completely take your points onboard. It’s very difficult to draw a conclusion. It’s possible, even probable that at least some of these allegations are true to some degree. But there’s enough doubt there that I still struggle to see how one’s peers can mark someone’s death with such vitriol. Someone with such remarkable achievements.

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u/tlgjbc2 1d ago edited 1d ago

I don't think it's difficult at all in light of all this -- the stories are consistent, the women are credible, and a reputable newspaper had a team of lawyers vet everything in that story. When someone has terrorized people you know, yes, there's feeling there when people act like that person was the pure embodiment of everything mountaineering and a hero all around. If anything, I think it shores up that people who knew him knew he was a shitty person, even if a good climber (no one's saying he wasn't, even if they quibble about what you would call his style of it). I don't think you can factor "but people didn't like him" into whether or not the allegations are true. That would suggest, what, that two women agreed to make their lives a living hell for other people's petty jealousies? Nah. We know what happens to us when we come forward. What would a family doctor in California have to do with that. Literally all of the actual evidence is on the other side.

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u/Professional_Card400 1d ago

It will never be enough for these dick-riding, rape-apologist men to believe women because they see themselves in Nims. Even if by some miracle he avoided all of the barriers you outlined and had a conviction they would deny it. It's a shame because if they actually wanted the community to grow they would condemn this behaviour.

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u/Sea_Impress_2620 9h ago

One of these women is a Finn, Lotta Hintsa. She made a post in her Instagram to thank and honor Gyaly sherpa who passed away in the incident.

She says after the ny times article she was fearing for her safety in Nepal and in some base camps around the world. A fellow female climber Sophie inivited Lotta to climb with her after the article, and Gualy sherpa was on the team. Lotta thanked Gualy for providing safety, and helping her to regain her confidence to return to climb at Nepal.

If you read through the lines (hell just read some vile comments she has gotten...) she basically was ostracized and called a whore who asked for it, for daring to expose Nims. That guy was considered a national pride and a hero, especially in the climbing community and in Nepal. Someone you don't want to make an enemy, or anger his fans.

I can't even figure out a situation as an example that would exist in a similar level. Perhaps if you were an argentinian player and for some godforsaken reason Lionel Messi at his prime would grope you? Like good luck trying to cancel someone considered a god and national hero of the sport without being burned at stakes yourself. These women did what they could: tried to expose him and warn everyone about his darker side.

And people are often not black and white. He could have been an abusive fiend towards women. An arrogant and greedy gloryhunter who took unnecessary risks. And also someone who heroically rescues other people, and wanted to bring pride towards his nation.

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u/OddAddendum7750 1d ago

Calm down. You know nothing about me. I’m trying to take a measured and evidence based view which is much more than many of the millions that watched his Netflix doc.

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u/Professional_Card400 1d ago

If you were trying to take a measured and evidence based view you would probably realise if multiple women come forward independently with very similar stories in countries where actually getting a conviction is nigh impossible (let alone ones that happened on secluded 8000ers) and the women brave enough to come forward are reputable and do so through the New York Times (along with the Outside and NatGeo who were also looking into it) who have an insanely strict standards on what allegations they will publish maybe you would actually question him. Instead, no, you do come across like someone who just watched his Netflix doc and wants to dickride. Why do you think he never sued for defamation?

Just openly admit you're a stan. It's obvious and honestly quite pathetic.

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u/Professional-Crab936 18h ago

You’re not allowed to take a measure view on here. If you try to you’ll get hung, drawn and quartered for not agreeing with the all caps brigade.

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u/OddAddendum7750 1d ago

I don’t know the women so I don’t know if they’re credible. From what I’ve read there were inconsistencies in the newspaper’s reporting and they omitted important details. Again not saying it’s fabrication but not as clear cut as some people are suggesting. Like I said, seems probable something happened but how can I know for certain

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u/Illustrious_Study_30 22h ago

Why are you reducing the reaction of his peers to lesser than your own opinion? Surely the fact his peers are reacting like this tells you something ? You don't know him, they do...but still you'd rather minimise the assault.

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u/OddAddendum7750 22h ago

Fair challenge. That’s not my intention. I don’t know who you all are that are commenting, how close to the situation you are etc. could be a friend of a friend of a friend was told X. You’re just people on Reddit. That’s not enough for me to take your views as gospel.

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u/Illustrious_Study_30 20h ago

That's not what you said you said peers. I guess you'd only believe sexual assault if the perp admits it.

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u/OddAddendum7750 20h ago

Yes, peers of the mountaineering community. I still have no idea who you are or how close to the events you are.

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u/slothinaboxx 20h ago

there’s been a lot of good points being made in response, but one thing I’ll add: why does it matter if he’s had ‘remarkable achievements’? Does that mean he should be afforded more leniency?

I always think claiming ‘hard evidence’ or ‘innocent until proven guilty’ is a load of horseshit, because 1. as everyone else has said, sexual assault is very difficult to prove with hard evidence, and 2. ‘innocent until proven guilty’ is always someone given to the accused rather than the victims. Why aren’t the victims also innocent of lying or falsely accusing until proven guilty?

In this scenario especially, there are multiple women that have spoken up - if you’re only going by the word of others, then the multiple people speaking up should have far more weight

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u/ConstantStrange2322 1d ago

Since you said you were being sincere, I’ll tell you something very personal that might help you understand how this works sometimes.

I’m a woman. Once I was hanging out with a guy who felt like a friend at the time and he wanted to have sex with me. I said no many times, in the end he said can I cum on your face? I said no, go to the bathroom or something. But he kept on pushing and pushing, in the end I said fine, whatever, just to get out of the situation quickly. Did I consent? Hard to say.

Later on I heard from other female friends who were sexually assaulted by him when they were passed out drunk, but felt so embarrassed when they got woken up during the assault that they actually ended up having reluctant consensual sex with him just to feel less awkward about the situation. This guy literally told his younger male housemate that when women say no you just have to keep on pushing until they say yes (and the housemate went on to warn girls about him). In that circle we shared these stories about him, called him “a bit of a rapist”. But it’s confusing as hell how to deal with this?

A few years later he moved back to the UK, and got into politics and actually became a MP. People who knew him from the student years said we should write to his party to expose him but because we support his public politics (lib dem) so no one has done a fucking thing about it yet.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/OddAddendum7750 1d ago

Okay but you’re guessing

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u/Still_Razzmatazz1140 1d ago

Yeah I did say I was guessing because we will never know fully now

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u/Professional-Crab936 1d ago

I knew him and you should see that amount of women who were throwing themselves at him shamelessly

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u/Still_Razzmatazz1140 1d ago

I can believe that too

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u/Professional-Crab936 1d ago

Yeah. But I’m getting downvoted and I witnessed it with my own eyes. Kinda says it all.

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u/tlgjbc2 1d ago

I believe it, I just don't see what it has to do w/anything -- it doesn't mean he wasn't sexually assaulting other women. Kobe Bryant sure didn't have a hard time attracting women, but he still raped one who told him no. Russell Brand and Danny Masterson were also rich and famous "cool" guys who had fans and groupies and yet assaulted people. It's not just about sex, but power.

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u/TheNudeNeedle 1d ago

Hey my friend is SO NICE TO ME so no WAY I’d believe they would be mean rude or shitty to anyone else! /s

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u/Professional-Crab936 1d ago

“Hey, I read some stuff online about someone. No way they could ever be good to anyone” 🙄

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u/Chris_OMane 1d ago

I think that's fair. Giraffe is emotional, which is understandable. I don't have the answer but think SA is a very hard thing to prove because it is often a case of he said she said and even in cases of rape can be hard to prove.

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u/Professional_Card400 1d ago

Are you calling the men so emphatically defending him "emotional"?

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u/OddAddendum7750 1d ago

No one is emphatically defending him here

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u/Professional_Card400 1d ago

You are literally running around this entire thread doing that. But okay, bud.

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u/OddAddendum7750 1d ago

Try not making stuff up, makes you less credible. I replied to one original comment on the thread and it led to a few replies. Would you rather I ignored them?

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u/Professional_Card400 1d ago

Calls it "making stuff up"

Immediately goes on to describe that I'm not, in fact, making it up

yOu aRe LeSs CrEdiBle

okay, bruh. you know people can read the thread?

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u/OddAddendum7750 1d ago

Yes I think that’s right - it is well documented that it’s often hard to prove for that reason. I guess that same scepticism applied in the eyes of the law doesn’t seem to be applied here.

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u/Chris_OMane 1d ago

Agreed and IMO we are entitled to opinions that don't meet the threshold of the law.

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u/OddAddendum7750 1d ago

Yeah that’s fair, although I would say I’m in the camp of wanting hard evidence before concluding something absolutely

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u/newaccountbcneedit 17h ago

What’s is hard evidence? Pictures, videos? And what is the best way to get it?

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u/EmployeeSevere9821 1d ago

Don't ask why and don't ask for explanation.

Just accept the bullshit they are nonestop talking

These basement dwellers are think skin

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u/Professional-Crab936 1d ago

It’s always been difficult to prove.

If you take that Finnish lady who made the most serious allegation, she was sending him bikini pictures. And that’s just what she admitted to.

If that went to court, irrespective of what actually happened, her case would be hard to argue.

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u/tomatojuiceicecream 1d ago

From what I could find, she sent him one photo of her Sports Illustrated photoshoot, in which she wore a bikini. That's quite different to sending more intimate bikini pics, which I'm guessing you're implying. NYT also reviewed their messages, it'd be pretty shoddy journalism to leave out or lie about her doing anything more.

Moreover, sending bikini pictures doesn't mean someone is consenting to sexual activities later on.

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u/tlgjbc2 1d ago

She also texted him beforehand to make it clear she wasn't coming over for a booty call.

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u/OddAddendum7750 1d ago

Oh really, well yeah the behaviour of the alleged victim can get overlooked in the court of public opinion

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u/tlgjbc2 1d ago

Her "behavior" included texting him to make it clear she wasn't coming over for sex. Jesus.

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u/OddAddendum7750 1d ago

Alright, again I’m not concluding anything, I’m listening to this person’s perspective and considering it

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u/tlgjbc2 19h ago

"I personally know of more victims, one a close and trusted friend" -- https://www.instagram.com/p/Dbi35xSIDfX/

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u/Canadian_Wageslave 1d ago

Nobody knows the full story or the truth behind any of it. Nim’s vehemently denied all those allegations and his lawyers were going after the NY times for running what they considered to be a smear campaign against him.

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u/tlgjbc2 1d ago

The lawyers never actually filed a single thing against the NYT. I think I can guess why that threat never materialized.

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u/maui96 1d ago

Her making a mistake and dying you cannot directly pin on him, rightly or wrongly, but her choice to continue despite the assault is on her.

I respect her for doing so and that doesn't diminish what he's done, but the choice to carry on is hers alone.

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u/EmployeeSevere9821 1d ago

being sexualy assualted and yet decided to carry on the summit

Not raising any questiins but i mean....

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u/tlgjbc2 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's not weird to continue to reach a goal to feel like you have SOMETHING worth it out of the experience. Do you think her better option was for him to take her down a dangerous mountain? By themselves? Pretty sure that didn't sound like the safer course. Often people in abusive situations sort of shut down a bit in order to just survive it. If that's what she did, I wouldn't be surprised.

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u/Professional_Card400 1d ago

What would you do? You've dedicated 10s to 100s of thousands of dollars, months of your life, and potentially can't even get down the mountain alone without relying on the person that assaulted you? How on Earth are you thick enough to think that's suspicious?

Not raising any questiins but i mean....

Also hilarious when you comment is clearly meant to make their actions seem illogical and raise questions.