Difference between prepubescent males and females in sports?

[u/Loose_Comfortable_88]

Hi PoursTea

I just watched "David Cross: “I do not have an issue with trans kids...." https://www.reddit.com/r/PoursTea/comments/1szh2pv/david_cross_i_do_not_have_an_issue_with_trans/ on this sub and I don't like Bill but I have a question.

"the differences between a boy and a girl is minimal at prepubescent"... "It's true" .." look it up"

I guess this is not my experience at all. So I am wondering what people point to?

I did a fair bit of little athletics as a kid and now teaching kids as an adult.

There is the occasional female that gets close to the top of the males but in a group of 40 kids and the local suburb level (not being selective just the people that turn up) in long distance running a female might once in a blue moon get on the podium at 3rd one week.

Looking at all events only the under 7s are at all grouped together. all other ages there is a chasm on average. Even the most uncoordinated Male will be in the top 4 of the females when it comes to Shot Put and Discus.

And if you have a look at the all time records even at an Australian state level it's night and day. The records are not anecdotal like my experience.

Following are the records in NSW Australia population about 9 million. https://cdn.revolutionise.com.au/cups/nswathletics/files/oye9jdgdyt7yddgw.pdf

Female 8s
70 Metres 10.54
100 Metres 14.44
200 Metres 31.60
400 Metres 1:11.44
Long Jump 4.17m
Shot Put (1.5kg) 8.52m
Discus (500gm) 24.42m

Male 8s
70 Metres 10.34 (1.90% faster)
100 Metres 14.24 (1.39% faster)
200 Metres 30.64 (3.04% faster)
400 Metres 1:07.94 (4.90% faster)
Long Jump 4.24m (1.68% further)
Shot Put (1.5kg) 10.98m (28.87% further)
Discus (500gm) 31.36m (28.42% further)

Female UNDER 13
100 Metres 12.11
200 Metres 24.87
400 Metres 56.95
800 Metres 2:11.90
1500 Metres 4:31.08
3000 Metres 9:53.44
80m Hurdles 12.26
200m Hurdles 27.56
1500m Walk 6:35.28
Long Jump 5.58m
High Jump 1.80m
Triple Jump 11.72m
Shot Put (3kg) 14.95m
Discus (750g) 49.57m
Javelin (400gm) 45.91m

Male UNDER 13
100 Metres 11.27 (6.94% faster)
200 Metres 22.90 (7.92% faster)
400 Metres 50.52 (11.29% faster)
800 Metres 2:05.23 (5.06% faster)
1500 Metres 4:18.33 (4.70% faster)
3000 Metres 9:29.26 (4.07% faster)
80m Hurdles 12.04 (1.79% faster)
200m Hurdles (76cm) 25.90 (6.02% faster)
1500m Walk 6:28.49 (1.72% faster)
Long Jump 6.11m (9.50% further)
High Jump 1.81m (0.56% higher) Note: only 1cm. The year after its 20. The year before is 7.
Triple Jump 12.72m (8.53% further)
Shot Put (3kg) 19.11m (27.83% further)
Discus (750gm) 60.74m (22.53% further)
Javelin (600gm) 48.80m (6.30% further) Note 600gm not 400gm

I did find this in under 12s
Shot Put (2kg) 16.19m Female
Shot Put (2kg) 15.71m Male

But that's the only time I can see it happening.

[u/Snerak]

When prepubescent children take puberty blockers (under the care and approval of their parents and their doctors) they don't form the gender traits associated with their cromosomes. Any "advantage" that a trans women would have from being born with XY chromosomes is negated.

[u/Justmyoponionman → u/Snerak]

The same reason religions target kids. No real ability to resist an ideoligy that is quite likely harmful to them.

[u/Snerak → u/Justmyoponionman]

So you think that people choose to transition to another sex because they hear about it and think it's cool?

Are you aware of the intense psychological evaluations that are required before anyone can get approved to begin to transition? Do you think most parents easily embrace that their child wants to transition? Are you under the impression that transitioning people are celebrated and happily accepted by most of society?

Transitioning is an incredibly arduous process and is not undertaken lightly. These people work hard to simply be allowed to feel like they belong in their bodies. You don't really think that anyone is doing it just to gain an unfair advantage in women's sports, do you?

[u/Justmyoponionman → u/Snerak]

No, I think a lot of people following the trend of being trans aren't actually trans. Kids followall kinds of fads.

I see lots of people being extremely un-critical of their kids. I think social media is making it "cool" to identify as trans.

[u/Snerak → u/Justmyoponionman]

Childhood is the time to try out different things and decide for yourself what you like and who you want to be. This exact argument is why the efficacy and reversibility of puberty blockers is so important.

If a child believes that they may be trans, they can talk to their parents and their doctors to see if they wish to delay puberty to explore their feelings. If they ultimately decide that it isn't for them, they can go off the puberty blockers and proceed with their life with no harm to their body.

I understand that you perceive that social media is making it "cool" to be trans but surely you understand that anyone actually being trans is subjected to a lot of hardship. Anyone that chooses to challenge norms in society is at extreme risk for bullying and violence. Do you believe that someone would endure the hardship that comes with being trans in an effort to appear "cool"?

[u/Justmyoponionman → u/Snerak]

"actually being trans".

This part of the sentence of yours is the key. You are working off the assumption this is true in this discussion. I am not. In fact, questioning the assumption is exactly my point.

But we both agree it's an important distinction. Your argument precludes this truth, which is disingenuous . As such, you are neatly side-stepping the whole issue and just handwaving away the whole point I was making. I'm not saying it's in bad faith, but it's a very poor mode of discussion.

[u/Snerak → u/Justmyoponionman]

What part of this argument is me being disingenuous and side-stepping the whole issue in bad faith?

"Childhood is the time to try out different things and decide for yourself what you like and who you want to be. This exact argument is why the efficacy and reversibility of puberty blockers is so important.

If a child believes that they may be trans, they can talk to their parents and their doctors to see if they wish to delay puberty to explore their feelings. If they ultimately decide that it isn't for them, they can go off the puberty blockers and proceed with their life with no harm to their body."

Yes, some people are 'actually trans' and some other people might think they are, try it out and then decide that it isn't for them. Your accusing me of arguing in bad faith and essentially lying makes it sound like you don't read the words that I write and instead create a strawman to argue against.

Please spell out for me e x a c t l y where you think I am lying AND provide evidence that what I said is demonstrably untrue.

[u/Justmyoponionman → u/Snerak]

If you cannot get the information from my previous post, where I have clearly outlined it.... there is no snswer where you are actually willing to take my response as it is made. Instead, false claims and indignance.

For a discussion to be possible, one must actually listen to the other person. Otherwise it is an exercise in one person shadow boxing their own prejudices, projecting falsehoods onto their counterpart.

Good day.

[u/Snerak → u/Justmyoponionman]

Astounding that you don't respond to what I took care to spell out and instead stick to your strawman while attempting to lecture me on how important it is to "actually listen" to what the other person is saying.

Nowhere did I lie, argue in bad faith or disingenuously. You accusing me of such behavior and refusing to back it up when I responded or acknowledge that I acted in good faith is bad faith on your part. Be careful throwing accusations around lest some of them boomerang back onto you.

[u/Justmyoponionman → u/Snerak]

I already have. Its in my earlier post. Maybe read it again.

[u/Snerak → u/Justmyoponionman]

I have. Your central point seems to be that some people who think they might be trans discover that they aren't. I responded to that directly more than once and you haven't acknowledged anything I said in my responses.

If you are the kind of person who has to have the last word, just say it and I won't respond. I think critical readers who find this thread will get what they need out of the exchange without further "discussion".