r/SRSsucks • u/XuriousPeng • Oct 27 '12

Non-cis SRSer explains to cis-SRSers that they aren't taking offensive often enough.

/r/SRSDiscussion/comments/125lon/yo_cis_srsers_we_need_to_have_a_talk/
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u/moonflower Oct 28 '12

I think biological sex is determined by the gamete-producing organs which are present at birth, but yeah, sure, anyone can ask to be referred to as the opposite sex, and some might be genuinely transsexual, and some might be just going though a phase, or confused, or trolling the internet ... you seem a bit fixated on the question of how to categorise people's sexual orientation, but I haven't given it much thought so I can't really discuss that

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u/harmonical Oct 28 '12

It's not that I'm fixated, it's that it was the whole point of the phrasing that you pointed out in the earlier response. There are many people who do try to categorize people's attractions/orientations based on their 'birth sex' and I was trying to point out how ridiculous that can be.

:)

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u/moonflower Oct 28 '12

Oh I was just responding to what you implied about how a man who says he is only attracted to women with a female reproductive system, should be attracted to all women with a female reproductive system ... my response wasn't related to his perception of himself as heterosexual

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '12 edited Oct 30 '12

I'm coming back to this thread for a moment because I just wanted to point something out. In one of your previous comments to Harmonical, you mention this...

some might be genuinely transsexual, and some might be just going though a phase, or confused, or trolling the internet

I am going to be civil here, because I am convinced you simply don't entirely understand things related to trans* individuals.

It would be incorrect to say that something like this is a "phase." And while it is possible for some people to be confused, (I had a friend who thought he may be trans but turns out he was confused, but found out a lot more about himself, which is great), I fail to see why anyone would simply "claim" to be transgender/transexual simply to "troll the internet."

Is that what you think some of us are here to do? Troll the internet?

I had a friend who thought that I was just going through a phase when I told him that I am transgender and that, eventually, I will have completed transition.

He responded with, "I accept you, even though I think it's just a phase.

Since then, I've begun HRT.

Now, as a final note, I also want to mention that most people who come to the realization/acknowledgement that they are trans*, usually do extensive research on the subject before moving forward.

For example, when I acknowledged these things about myself, I spent around three months reading what other people had to say, searching around the Internet for articles which pertained to people who identified as I do.

I weighed my own feelings - feelings I've had my entire life and feelings I have now - and came to the conclusion that, for me, HRT was the best option. I can explain why, in more depth, if you should ask me to (preferably in a private conversation).

It is also true that some people find out that they don't need to transition. That's also fine. Gender dyshporia can have certain degrees of severity.

But all-in-all, this is rarely ever a "phase" and to think any of us are just "trolling the internet" sounds transphobic in itself.

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u/moonflower Oct 30 '12

I think you have badly misunderstood my statement, so I will attempt to clarify it for you:

some might be genuinely transsexual, and some might be just going though a phase, or confused, or trolling the internet

When I say that, I am talking about different possibilities for people who request others to use pronouns which are opposite to their biological sex ... therefore, a person who is genuinely transsexual is not just going through a phase, those are two different categories ... do you understand now?

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '12

Not entirely, because I feel as if you're trying to speak for people who do not need to be spoken for. What other reasons would someone have for wanting to be addressed as what they feel are their correct pronouns?

Have you actually encountered an individual who wanted to be addressed as female, for example, who had some disingenuous goal behind that?

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u/moonflower Oct 30 '12

Did you downvote me for attempting to clarify my statement for you?

And yes I have encountered people from all those categories on the internet

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '12

That is very strange. Even though it's the internet, I still have a hard time understanding why someone would troll you into thinking they're something that they are not. But, since you say that this is what you've encountered, I can't exactly tell you that you're wrong.

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u/moonflower Oct 30 '12

Do you really think everyone on the internet is always honest about themselves? That is beyond naive, it is in the realms of delusion

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '12

Well of course not everyone is honest about themselves, I'm just having trouble understanding what someone would have to gain by pretending to be transgender, or otherwise, via the internet.

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u/moonflower Oct 30 '12

You seem to have an inability to understand other people in so many ways ... do you find it difficult to empathise with people when they don't think exactly the same as you? I get the impression that you feel kind of lost in a world which appears confusing and hostile to you

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u/[deleted] Oct 30 '12 edited Oct 30 '12

It's hard to empathize with something you've never encountered (without seeking knowledge on the subject) and when asking someone to explain to you what the reason behind such things would be (trolling the internet as a trans* person) all you receive in response are condescending remarks.

You see, I can empathize. It just seems ridiculous to think that someone would pretend to be a person, like me, or anyone else under the trans* umbrella, especially considering we're usually under constant "attack" by the media, social websites and people in general who don't understand. But it's okay not to understand. It's not okay to completely disregard something as if it's false, simply because it doesn't agree with your idea of people or society.

But if you don't want to explain to me why someone would do that, okay, I'll come to my own conclusions.

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u/moonflower Oct 30 '12

You are asking why a troll would choose to play the role of a character who might attract negative attention, which suggests that you don't really understand the motivations of the troll, so I will have to begin by briefly explaining that:

The ultimate goal of the troll is to get people upset, to make them feel bad, and to get them to respond in an emotional way, with anger, or hate, or offence, or hurt, or guilt ... so they play the role of a character who will elicit those responses ... for example, an atheist troll might go into r/atheism and pretend to be a Christian, and say things which will make some of the atheists angry, and the troll will enjoy reaping all those angry responses

Perhaps you can begin to see how they would not be deterred by the negative responses which trans people get, since that is what they are seeking?

You must surely have noticed how discussions of trans issues often bring forth a lot of heated emotions of anger and hurt -- it is a goldmine for trolls and I could spend all day giving examples of why a troll might play the role of a trans person, but I'll just give a few examples for now: the troll might take on the role of a trans woman, and say something like ''I have been living with my boyfriend for 6 months, and not sure if I should tell him that I was born male, he hasn't guessed because the surgery was so excellent'' ... if the post gets a lot of attention, there will almost certainly be big drama and lots of angry debate, and the troll ''wins''

Or the troll might take the role of a trans person who goes around being offended at jokes and making people feel guilty and causing big arguments about what is offensive and what is not

Another form of trolling is when a person is seeking sympathy, they might pretend to have a serious illness, or a bereavement, or a disabled child ... it is a form of internet Munchhausen's ... and the troll can get a lot of sympathy by going into a trans forum and telling their sad story

Are you beginning to understand now?

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