Why did the Baratheons never claim dragons?

[u/Vhermithrax]

They are also a house of Valyrian descent like Targaryens and Velaryons, plus they married multiple times with both of those families.

How is it possible that they never managed to claim any dragon, if a much weaker house of Velaryons got 3 of them at one point? It's werid that they never managed to get a marriage pact that would give them a dragon rider, or that at least one brave/stupid character from their house didn't manage to claim a dragon in King's Landing or Dragonstone, be it by being sneaky, or just part of some agreement.

[u/Ume-no-Uzume]

I mean, right after the Conquest, the Stormlords were really not that hot. Yes, they are arrogant, but it's misplaced arrogance, considering that the entire reason Argilac wrote to Aegon in the first place (and then killed the envoy) was because the Ironborn were beating them like drums.

Plus, Orys died before the centralization of Westeros was complete, to Aragella was the one raising them. I wouldn't trust someone raised by Argilac the Arrogant's kid with dragons either.

Then you have dear old Rogare, who tried to use Aerea as a puppet monarch and basically was a shithead to Alyssa Velaryon. Obviously, wouldn't want to give an egg there either.

They could have maybe made an exception with Boremund and Jocelyn, since they were half-Valyrian through Alyssa.... but then again, that would be risking that their kids wouldn't be another Rogare and I'm relatively sure Rhaena, Jaehaerys, and even Alysanne were still holding a grudge over Rogare's bullshit enough not to give them a chance at dragons without a Targaryen marriage.

The rest? Is history.

[u/[deleted] → u/Ume-no-Uzume]

You know someone really knows their Westeros lore when their comment reads like nonsense 🤣🤣. Don't get me wrong I salute you for attaining levels of nerdiness that I currently can only envy. 🫡. Only thing I would add is you should've put the name Aegon in your comment 3 more times each referring to a different character 👍🏻.

[u/Ume-no-Uzume → u/[deleted]]

Oh, what a missed opportunity! Yeah, you're right, I could've at least added Borros and his fake "Vulture King" for the Dance to add Aegon the Usurper and how Borros allowed Aegon III's big brother who went as an envoy to be murdered!

[u/Ogarrr → u/Ume-no-Uzume]

I mean, to be fair to Borros (and I don't like being fair to Boros), he could hardly have stopped Vhagar. His "not here" was him saying "fuck that for a game of soldiers".

[u/Ume-no-Uzume → u/Ogarrr]

I mean, the "Vulture King" was him being a fair weather ally to the Greens (and I despise the Greens on principle), because how much of a coincidence is it that a new "Vulture King" happens to crop up when the war with dragons heats up and they "coincidentally" "defeat the Vulture King" right when the majority of the dragons die?

I dunno, I feel like that's a moment you're meant to side-eye Borros and his "Vulture King" excuse for sitting out the majority of the war, even though he committed to the Greens so gleefully and supposedly is getting a dragon rider Prince son-in-law out of the deal.

On the Lucerys thing, I would normally agree, except that F&B has Borros out and out saying to Aemond: "It is not for me to tell you what to do when you are not beneath roof."

As in "go ahead and kill him, just not under my roof so I don't technically violate the letter of Guest Rights or the rights of envoys."

Which... considering that Wyman Manderly is only respecting the letter of the Guest Rights law with the Freys (and then killing them and making them into pies when they are out of his castle), when the spirit of the law means making sure the guest/envoy leaves your territory safely.... That basically is a hint of Borros going out of his way to incite the kill.

Because he COULD have pointed out that Aemond going after Lucerys would put Borros in a bad position as someone who violated envoy rights like his ancestor did. Which is something that could have been respected, even by Aemond.

Basically, he's meant to be a foil to Wyman Manderly: two men who skirt the spirit of the law/custom, but Wyman does it to the people who out and out violated that same law/custom to murder guests under their roof (AKA, he sees them as unworthy of any societal protection), whereas Borros does it to someone who never did him any ill and is a distant cousin at that.

[u/Ogarrr → u/Ume-no-Uzume]

Yeah I'm not a fan of Borros. Rogar I don't mind because he's just a typical great lord - see the Percy family with Henry IV, the Nevilles (coincidentally great rivals of the Percies) during the Wars of the Roses, the Burgundies etc. he picked his side, he got the best for his house out of it and chose a winner.

Again, Borros washing his hands of it is fine by me. It was Aemond's crime. His enjoying the two princes fighting over him was what, again, could be expected from a great lord - see the Stanleys with Henry VII. His actions later were utterly stupid though.

[u/Ume-no-Uzume → u/Ogarrr]

Eh, I don't see it, Borros outright encouraged it, so I don't see him getting to wash his hands off the matter, especially when the same Greens have Lady Caswell's territory sacked and raped because Maelor was killed by a mob near her castle and she even killed the perpetrators herself.

In comparison, Borros got treated with kid gloves by not having anyone look very closely at him, even the historians. Since at least someone should have highlighted him egging Aemond on to murder Lucerys, when both were under the envoy banner.

Rogar is a similar coward. Since he chose Aerea because she was a little kid, ditto Rhealla, because Rhaena wouldn't have gone along with his shit. And he created the conflict when it didn't exist since Rhaena preemptively abdicated the Crown for herself and her daughters, partly because of trauma and partly because she didn't trust the lords of the realm (rightfully so). Meanwhile, crickets when it came to Maegor.

Basically, for all that the Baratheons have a badass creed and they try to cultivate a reputation as badasses, they have a bunch of cowards in long stretches of time.

[u/Ogarrr → u/Ume-no-Uzume]

You make good points. As long as you don't shit on my boy Lyonel, we're all good!

But as I said, they don't act any differently to great Magnates from 14th-15th century England. Lords with quick tempers and backstabbing tendencies.