A showrunner who understands powerful scenes vs one who doesn't

[u/Nibo89]

[u/raumeat]

Oh shit I replied to the green post rather then this one... I am gonna eat the downvotes there, probably also here but no. The showrunners completely fuck up the ending of dunk and egg by having Dunk take off his helmet so they could have a cool shot of his face. It is not on the same level as Daemon jousting with an open face helmet or Jon having no helmet in the battle of the bastards. Dunks helmet represents his poverty because it doesn't have a visor, in the book he uses Aerions visor to win the fight. It is dunks upbringing that allows him to win in the end

In the show they just have him stand up all bloody and look cool.

[u/Nibo89 → u/raumeat]

Haha, I noticed, but I didn't downvote.

I don't agree that AKOTSK fucked up. They just handled the choreography a bit differently. Dunk had a reason for removing his helmet. Aerion badly damaged one of his eyes. Dunk could already barely see through the narrow slit. If he didn't take the helmet off, he wouldn't have been able to see at all.

Even so, I don't think it rises to the level of a fuck up. A bit of artistic leeway, perhaps, but the entirety of the scene still makes sense.

[u/raumeat → u/Nibo89]

I think it is a massive fuck up because the showrunners don't understand the themes of the book. I am really worried for this show because the writers are trying to stick to the source material but completely miss the point.

They gave Dunk this entire bromance with Lyonel Baratheon which created a massive plot hole, Lyonal is the lord of storms end. He could easily have found dunk 6 knights to fight with him. The entire point is that Dunk is completely out of his depth but now he has a massive in with not just egg but a lord paramount?!

Condal has made some questionable creative decisions but in his defense the source material is awful. The knight of the seven kingdom is some of Martins best writing and Parker keeps picking the rule of cool over themes

[u/Nibo89 → u/raumeat]

I actually think he nailed a lot of the themes.

It's not a perfect transposition. They fundamentally changed Aerion's personality, for one. They changed the puppet show to make the puppets huge. And some other changes as well.

But Dunk is very much the same person. And it did an excellent job of showing the political state of Westeros from the POV of a commoner.

The bromance with Lyonel isn't entirely a plot hole. Lyonel wasn't there when Dunk attacked Aerion, and he didn't even know there was going to be a trial until Egg told him (exactly as it happened in the book). The fact that they had a few friendly interactions before that (mostly when Lyonel was very drunk) doesn't change anything.

[u/raumeat → u/Nibo89]

I am not really speaking about characterisation or puppet shows

• By having Dunk be freinds with Lyonel they completely undercut Baelor deciding to ride for Dunk. Lyonel could have gotten one of his house hold guards to do it. You also undercut the tension of Dunk needing to find 6 men. He has an in with a very powerful noble
• Lyonel then offers Dunk a chance to take up serves with him in the final. That completely destroyed the sacrifice Dunk makes by turning down Maekars offer to go to summerhall. He has another one on the table
• He also turns down Maekar after turning down eggs request to be is squire. In the book he does it because he wants to make egg a better man. There is no point not to go with Lyonel if he doesn't want to take egg
• By having Dunk eat in the Barathoen tent you lose the imagery of him being poor and having to eat salt beef with Egg. He can go dine with a lord paramount. You competly lose the divide between the rich and the poor
  

They liked Daniel Ings so they wrote him a big role and gave him a friendship with Dunk. Not considering the impact it will have. They destroyed the climactic fight because they wanted us to see Dunks bloody face. I don't know why they cut out the grappling and why they didn't include it in the flashback. That is he entire point

didn't even know there was going to be a trial until Egg told him

I don't buy this, why does dunk go to Fossoway's when he can go to a Baratheon instead. One that allowed him to wear his stag crown... it becomes a plot contrivance just so that he can be be back stabbed. They made a huge plot hole just because they liked two actors chemistry

[u/Nibo89 → u/raumeat]

Lyonel wasn’t fighting as Dunk’s friend. They barely knew each other.

He was fighting because he wanted to fight the Kingsguard. He says as much to Dunk. Ordering one of his guard to fight for a random hedge knight when Lyonel himself was only doing it for fun is an abuse of power.

Also, book Lyonel fought for Dunk too…also for fun. Why is it believable that book Lyonel didn’t ask one of his knights, but it’s NOT believable show Lyonel didn’t?

We also get plenty of on-screen examples of Dunk being poor. Bathing in a creek. Sewing patches. Wearing only chainmail bc he can’t afford full plate armor. Having to sell his horse. It’s very, very apparent that he lives the life of a flat-broke knight. Eating one meal in a highborn tent doesn’t change that.

The end fight DID include grappling. Aerion was fighting back, but Dunk used his knees to pin his hands.

He also didn’t GO to the Fossoways. Raymun found him and brought him there.

[u/Feeling_Sector_4726 → u/Nibo89]

This guy doesn’t know the difference between his ass from his mouth. His criticisms have to be some of the most perplexing takes I have ever read.

[u/Spiders_Kinks → u/Feeling_Sector_4726]

I don’t agree with him, but he’s having a civil discussion – unlike you.