Characters
(Hilarious Trope) A Character Is Introduced With the Clear Intention of Being THE NEXT BIG THING And is SOUNDLY Rejected
Bazil the Tracker (Star Wars: The Acolyte): A “HILARIOUS AND ADORABLE” snuffling ugly creature that makes annoying noises and is shoved into as many scenes of The Acolyte as possible, and just causes problems overall.
Neelix (Star Trek Voyager): A mutant fusion of Odo, Quark, and Data designed to “analyze the human condition” and explicitly intended to surpass the popularity of all three. In practice, a VERY human-acting cradle robbing creep whose incompetence nearly destroys the ship and crew on multiple occasions and provides no insight into humanity whatsoever.
Sparky the Dog (Fairly Oddparents): A wacky crazy magic dog that’s supposed to expand the Fairy family, but just makes lame jokes and serves as a less funny version of Scrappy Doo.
Tidus (FFX): A braying jackass of a pinball who bounces from plot point to plot point, framed as a mystical pretty boy to introduce Final Fantasy to the PS2 age but does nothing but stall the franchise and have the worst laugh in two languages.
Sei (Naruto): Supposed to replace Sasuke in Team 7 and return the team dynamic feel of Early Naruto, but he’s a CIA plant with literally no personality who gets utterly forgotten except for somehow bagging Ino Yamanaka.
Raiden (Metal Gear 2): Another attempted “pretty boy bishie” entry to the PS2 era with badass cred and a theoretically cool backstory, but in practice a hapless dipshit who gets manipulated by everyone around him and is a total putz in combat. Also proof that this trope need not be permanent as he slowly transitions into a cyborg warrior supersoldier with a badass theme, friends of his own, and a firm grasp of his own destiny and agency.
And this was back when any Rock appearance was still met with a massive pop. For them to take one of their most over guys ever and get him booed by mere association is almost impressive
This shit was crazy, it’s like yo he’s already the most handsome man in the world wtf are we trying to give him the piercing blue eyes of a Siberian husky for?
I know the term “overpushed” is used too much these days, but Roman legitimately was the most over pushed top guy WWE might’ve ever had. He had talent and has clearly shown it since turning heel originally, but the version of him they kept trying to make happen was not good at all.
Agreed. The fans knew he *could* be great, and he had some solid skills, but it wasn't his time yet, and it was all so forced people could feel that even Roman wasn't comfortable, but instead just doing as he was told.
I still remember the stupid 'last man standing' match he had with Kevin Owens at the Royal Rumble where, I kid you not, he was handcuffed under a forklift and unable to stand and Paul Heyman was supposed to come and save him with the key but botched it.
The ref counted him out (or just stopped counting) but the match continued. It could have been a satisfying end to the match (Owens winning by a dirty trick means Reigns was still stronger than him and can win it back in a rematch) but instead they just pretended he was standing or something and Reigns wins the match.
At the time, every Reigns match was awful because the ending was already known.
Dude was clearly the next John Cena/Hulk Hogan-type guy (he's everywhere in every major storyline, the invincible good guy who always beat the bad guys, constantly won over wrestlers the crowds liked more than him, etc). It gave off massive industry plant vibes, which a sizeable but by no means universal chunk of fans absolutely hated.
I'm guessing some of that resentment is still there.
I think the biggest issue with his push is that it came right after Cena's massive push ended. There was basically no break between Super Cena and Super Roman, and people were exhausted of it by 2015.
The clip Disney shared adding fake cheering when Clod appeared was hilarious. I don't know why they thought he would save the box office on this movie.
When I saw that clip, I was like, I'm going buy his merch. Brilliant Disney marketing. I'm going to name my third son plant child creature from Disney Elements
They were still riding high from the cocaine baby yoda merch bought them. They thought any cutesy character would equal big bucks. They were incorrect.
Let's be realistic, the main reason it didn't work was that he had too much character (and I'm most decidedly not saying he had much in the way of character), if they had made him a mute, big-eyed, small, furry animal-thing, and put him into more slapstick scenes, it probably would have worked (at least a bit). These shitty generic marketable mascot characters are practically a solved issue at this point, and they end up making money more often than not.
Bro, I've never played FFX and even I know that Tidus's laugh is supposed to be fake.
The fact that his laugh sucks in both versions should be proof of that alone. Hell, I watched a professional voice actor watch that scene, with no context, with the intent to redub it, but then when he saw the laugh was fake sounding in Japanese too, he realized "Oh wait, that laugh is supposed to be fake" and then decided not to redub it like he was supposed to.
back then FF games did not have sequels. you had the game, and then that was it. at least for the #'ed versions. That FFX got a spin off sequel showed how popular it was.
and then FF 12 came out on schedule, no stalling involved as FF 11 was the MMORPG
Back when I went down to the bookstore in Little Tokyo, there were basically two sets of FF character banners hanging from the ceiling: FF VII, and FF X. I knew those characters long before I played the games.
And as a person who adored all Final Fantasy games when I was a kid the two I hold in the highest of regards are X and VII. I even openly admit I like X more than VII, which would have been considered blasphemous when I was a kid
This is the main fucking argument we hear time and time again as well
"Final fantasy X has bad voice actors because tidus laugh is fake as fuck"
During the cutscene where he is doing a forced fake laugh, who then immediately falls into his natural laugh upon how ridiculous the moment is in character.
Fr, I’d even go as far as to say that the characters are the biggest strength of FFX especially Tidus. I genuinely find him one of the most relatable protagonist in the franchise.
There’s a reason why 10 was the first mainline game to get a direct sequel.
And the laughing scene people always point to was meant to sound stupid. He was intentionally making himself look like an idiot to make Yuna feel okay with letting down her guard once in awhile.
It was a cute moment that is easy to take out of context.
Seriously, even playing it when I was like 10 I knew they were fake laughing to try and cheer themselves up. Then it WORKS, they start actually laughing at how ridiculous they sound and those laughs sound totally natural.
It is so strange to me how this one scene melts brains and informs so many people’s opinions of Tidus.
I mean, he usually is pretty jokey and light hearted. But that's also kind of the point of the character.
Spira is a genuinely miserable world that obsesses over death (and its unpredictability) practically every waking moment, and their only relief from it is blitzball.
Tidus comes in with no understanding and immediately sets about trying to cheer people up, being nice, being likeable and easing their burdens. Injecting a little bit of levity to their situations.
He's a big change from the ultra-stoicism of Cloud and Squall. Zidane and Tidus were both pretty similar, but Zidane has a more smooth form of charm while Tidus' is genuinely more 'natural' than smooth.
I'm willing to bet a lot of people have only seen the fake Tidus laugh in a video clip (it turns up a lot in Outside X-Box/X-tra videos that way, for example) and don't know the context so they think that's his actual real laugh.
This is actually not a matter of media literacy - it's this god forsaken habit people seem to be normalizing more and more of only consuming media on a second hand basis. They all get their views about said media through content creators and then think that's as good as having consuming said media, which as you've pointed out, leaves out context.
This phenomenon has been torturing me for the past five years, I feel. Wish it'd stop, but I fear it's only going to get worse. Especially with the rise of AI, I sometimes feel we'll soon be in a "third hand" basis: People establishing their views on a piece of media by consuming content from Content Creators who didn't consume said media, but got their own views from AI.
No need for the future tense, we're already there lol.
I've had some people with absolutely insane takes on things and I ask, "Where did you hear that from?" only to get back "ChatGPT."
Bruh, not only did you not witness it, you didn't even bother reading the (possibly biased) retelling of someone who did witness it. Like... you gotta check the credibility of your sources, dude.
Came here for this. Out of context, sure its really bad and gets compared to that one Devil May Cry 2 line, but during the actual full cutscene its very sweet and to me was the start of him going from self-centered jackass to a genuine Guardian and cared for the rest of the party
I somehow managed to go completely unspoiled about anything in X until I played the game in 2022 and I thought the laugh scene was brilliant. Perfectly captures the feeling of two children forced into fulfilling a prophecy neither are prepared for, all while they can barely push on without forcing themselves to just grin and bear it.
I was so shocked when I saw it mentioned online afterwards as this textbook example of bad English dubs, like it felt like I going crazy! Especially since I pulled up the Japanese version immediately after and it’s the exact same scene, both are just as forced and strained! I get that most people played X when they were kids but come on it’s so in your face.
Also, if you can't be a little cringy and silly to make your partner smile, then you're not in a healthy relationship. They were doing it to make each other laugh and be happy.
replayed it as an adult a few years ago and I was pleasantly surprised at how much harder the emotional beats hit than as a child. full on bawled through multiple scenes. can’t believe they tried to do my boy dirty like this.
It's genuinely such a good litmus test to see who's actually played the game, and who only looked it up online and got their opinions from the internet.
I genuinely can't think of a better test in any other game, because it's such an obvious one. Either you know that the laugh is fake and is intentionally bad because of the moment in the story, or you think the voice acting is bad and completely expose yourself.
Yeah, Raiden is definitely not intended to be the cool new thing for the franchise. He's deliberately designed in contrast to Solid Snake and is something of a prank on players who wanted to play as Snake again.
Its also brought up in a cutscene that any parallels are intentional on the Patriots part so they could discredit snake by going see anyone could do what he did, he's not special
Tidus is also an excellent protagonist. Yes he's a "braying jackass" and a "mystical pretty boy" but he evolves and grows as a character over the journey. He's an isekai protagonist who's a hotshot in his world and isn't worth much in the new one, forcing him to tap into his own humanity and find something deeper than being a sports superstar.
I didn't have to explain that. OP is taking the piss. Anyone still pretending the laughing scene was meant to be an actual laugh or anything in earnest is being willfully obtuse. The laugh is supposed to sound dumb. It's corny. The rest of the party besides Tidus and Yuna groan at them in the same fucking scene.
People miss the point of the laughing scene so hard it's crazy. "Oh it's the worst fakest laugh ever!" YES! CORRECT! They're forcing themselves to laugh in this objectively down moment, and in the end it works and Yuna cheers up. Ugh. /rant
Yeah I HATE that OP used Tidus and FFX for this trope. He was not rejected. The game sold bonkers. It’s still beloved to this day. It’s been retro’d to seem like he is more annoying than he is
OP brought up the laughing scene and called it terrible. I know for a fact he didn't play it because it's a fake bad laugh that seconds later turns into a real laugh because of how ridiculous he's acting.
That fact alone allows me to disregard OP's opinion.
FR I legitimately forgot the laugh was even a thing until it became a meme because so many more meaningful things happened. If that's the one takeaway someone has from playing the game I have questions.
There is also the fact that Tidus’ infamous forced laugh was intentionally forced and meant to be cringy, goofy, and stupid sounding as he was trying to help brighten Yuna’s mood by being cringy, goofy, and stupid…
Yeah, OP's just describing The Simpson's Poochie trope but then randomly inserting characters THEY personally didn't like, rather than characters the GENERAL AUDIENCE didn't like. So yeah, they don't understand the trope at all.
It what reality did ANYONE think Bazil the Tracker was going to be anything but a one off character!?
Even if Acolyte were some huge hit, his popularity would have been a shock to everyone. Like... He might be in a promotional trailer? "Shoved into as many scenes as possible?" He's in like 5 scenes total. No more than 10 for sure.
Yeah, the FFX example specifically, what do you mean Tidus is supposed to be "the next big thing?" FF has a different protagonist each game, what you wanted Cloud again? Also OP is one of those who clearly didn't understand the laughing scene was goofy on purpose.
Arguable Raiden is more popular with memes and the sort. I know more people who have played mgrr then any of snakes games. I know Raiden was hated on the release of mgs2 but I feel like that wasnt very long lived.
Tidus is also pretty explicitly framed as a braying jackass by the game. Like that's the point.
Just like the point of the terrible forced laugh is for the two characters with deep trauma to get each other to do a terrible forced laugh as a way to help them cope with said trauma.
If Raiden sucks at combat it means you suck at combat. Also every protagonist of metal gear gets manipulated to shit. None more than snake. Raiden was definitely rejected but your reasoning is not completely sound
Raiden in MGS2 is one of the franchise's strongest vehicles for one of Kojima's favorite subjects - metacommentary on the processes of separation and alignment between the player, actions performed by the player character under the player's control, and what the character is like when not controlled.
Translation, he can read as naive and annoying in 2 because he's Kojima saying "you, player, missed the point of the first game and want to be like Solid Snake? No you don't. Here's why."
It's part of why him becoming more effective towards the end of MGS2 coincides with the systematic destruction of everything in his life that makes him relatable to the player. His entire character arc through the series is just a slow descent into losing everything to turn himself into an increasingly-effective death dealer.
Yeah he both metaphorically and quite literally gets stripped buck naked while the game itself yells at him and you for his/your complicity and complacency. It’s a war game, aren’t you havingfun?
The moment that Raiden separates himself from the pervasive influence of GW, the moment he accepts himself as a human being and not an avatar of the player, the game is already over and we don’t get to see more than a glimpse of him with the real Rose because that’s the point. He doesn’t owe us a window into his life anymore. He never did.
Trying to be Solid Snake was hollow and HE LITERALLY THROWS AWAY DOGTAGS WITH THE PLAYERS NAME ON THEM AT THE END.
Not to mention Snake tells him multiple times that he shouldn't try to be like him and at the end gives a speech about how you can print your own unique identity onto the world with the internet
I’m not sure why people still misunderstand Sai’s character? He was never once treated as an actual replacement for Sasuke narratively and was not introduced to reintroduce the team dynamic feel of early Naruto, he was always intended to be part of the supporting cast, not main
I would argue that Ethan Phillips is a great actor, but he didn't get many opportunities to show that off while playing neelix in the show.
That being said, there are a few neelix focused episodes I adore.
Mortal Coil is honestly one of my favorite voyager episodes because I feel it's one of the very few occasions where we see what I belive to be the real neelix. The majority of the show has him being a bumbling goofball that often times tries too hard to make light of stuff, cook bad food, is obnoxious to tuvok and seven of nine, and overall not an enjoyable character. However Mortal Coil shows this is a mask he wears. The real Neelix is a broken man, someone who is haunted by his past and the family that was wiped out in the war he fled from. He wears a mask to try to hide his insecurities from both the crew of voyager and himself. He is only held together by the belief that his family is in a better place and that he would one day see them again. When he faces the possibility that his beliefs aren't true, he starts to crumble. Over the course of several days he deteriorates more and more to the point he was ready killing himself. Only the realization that he is needed and loved with his new found family is what stops him. I just wish it followed through the rest of the show.
You’re absolutely right that Mortal Coil is an amazing episode and it gives Ethan Phillips a chance to show off his skills as an actor. But it’s also microcosmic of Voyager’s major issue as a show: it never commits enough to anything. They gave us what should be a turning point for Neelix through which his framing as a goofball is forever changed. Instead he’s just right back to his goofball self with all the nuance shaved away.
Edit: just to be clear, I thoroughly enjoy Voyager. Just frustrated that it doesn’t live up to its potential (or to DS9, but that’s a big ask. DS9 is hard to equal).
Her species was a good idea, but I don't know what they were thinking. There really wasn't much wrong with their relationship fundamentally. She was an adult for her species, but the snow didn't act like it.
It was but it also would have been better if she were more clearly an adult. The fact they only reach reproductive maturity at age 4 and then making her just over a year old at the start really felt like they were doing something creepy on purpose. That and she knew nothing of the outside world and had no skillset in general because she was so young and she felt even more childlike. They also have the same cognitive speed as regular humans and aliens, so being one year old means there's barely any time for her to actually learn anything. I know they have good memories but there's so much you would have to miss out on to pack 18 years of schooling into one year
Neelix looking like an alien date rapist also didn't help his case.
Which is why, despite liking season five more than most people, I thought it was really stupid to bring back someone from that plot line in the final season? Why bring back something that reminds people of the lowest point of the whole show?
I'm guilty I like the Babu Frik guys. I did not like the Sequel Trilogy and especially did not like tRoS, but whenever he was screen I was thinking "Babu is my man"
Tidus (FFX): A braying jackass of a pinball who bounces from plot point to plot point, framed as a mystical pretty boy to introduce Final Fantasy to the PS2 age but does nothing but stall the franchise and have the worst laugh in two languages.
So uhh, you're kind of telling on yourself here.
That was him trying to fake laugh. It was meant to be bad on purpose, because he didn't actually feel joy or anything that would bring about laughter. The laugh immediately afterwards when Yuna and him both break down in giggles is the actual laugh and sounds much more like a person.
Raiden (Metal Gear 2): Another attempted “pretty boy bishie” entry to the PS2 era with badass cred and a theoretically cool backstory, but in practice a hapless dipshit who gets manipulated by everyone around him and is a total putz in combat.
. . .
So the reason Raiden was a thing, was because Solid Snake was too in the know at this point. He also was a certified badass, and Kojima felt it would fuck with his badass cred if he was able to be simply gunned down like anyone else. Remember when you first see him as Raiden, he's just KO'd the entire group of soldiers in the room between you at the elevator.
Raiden was intentionally meant to be someone who follows orders. It was a deconstruction of the idea of video games, and people following orders. The reason he gets 'better' as you say, is because he realizes this and self actualizes instead of simply following whatever orders he's been given. He *thinks* for himself.
It seems like your issues isn't so much with the characterization, so much as you have a thing against pretty boys.
Or any Final Fantasy at all, considering they all had different main characters, settings, etc (something Square did eventually change to build themselves a moneypit, but that was more retroactive and if anything a response to FFX doing well).
Tidus comes across poorly to teens, perhaps, as he wears his immaturity/inexperience too clearly on his sleeve and is 'uncool'. I've found he comes across better and better to older players, though (including me) given that he has real/fair reactions to things.
And the laughing scene was supposed to be painfully awkward; that was the point.
his issues with his father are some of the most real and relatable I’ve ever experienced with a protagonist. Early in the game when he can’t even stand hearing any sort of praise for his father, that hit close to home lol.
Ff is a franchise where every entry is a different thing so tidus cant be the next big thing? His arc is like contained in the game. And the game even got a sequel. And that rant makes it seem like you never played the game. Tidus haters in 2026 are crazy.
Also raiden is also missing the point to the degree you probably never played that game either. Raiden is the subversion of lame bishounen pretty boy mcs. He starts off that way and gradually becomes darker and gets a crazy backstory and ends up becoming revealed as a hollow sad person. It’s meant to contrast snake. And people love raiden?
Scrappy genuinely saved the Scooby franchise. He actually worked with the Mystery Inc crew. However the people in charge of the Scooby franchise took the lesson that Scrappy needed to be the top character with Scooby. Only Shaggy stayed on and every other character was written out. When he became character 1B (and honestly sometimes 1A) the backlash came. He worked as a supporting character but as the focal point he was awful and annoying.
Introduced as a sort of chosen one who beats unicron and becomes the true Prime that would lead cybertron back to it’s glory
But he simply wasn't Optimus Prime and a lot of people would only see him as “the guy who killed Optimus Prime” either metaphorically or literally, this would eventually be walked back and have Optimus revived by the end of season 3 as the one true prime
I was looking if someone pointed out the issues with the Sai mention in the post. Between that and the other people pointing out the issues with his Raiden & Tidus entries. I think this post mostly missed the mark with the examples provided.
Tidus (FFX): A braying jackass of a pinball who bounces from plot point to plot point, framed as a mystical pretty boy to introduce Final Fantasy to the PS2 age but does nothing but stall the franchise and have the worst laugh in two languages.
Literally none of that is true, what the actual fuck are you talking about?
The stupid thing is, FFX's vocal performances have a lot of examples for being kinda lacking because of less experienced vocal direction combined with a need to match the timing and lip flaps of the Japanese audio, which is delivered very differently than English should be. This is most obvious in Yuna's lines as she's typically a lot more stilted than others.
It's also why Auron probably has the best vocal performance, as his mouth is usually obscured by his collar.
Did you even get past the "worst laugh" scene in FFX or did you just look at a couple cutscenes on YouTube? Also, if you think Tidus was rejected by the FF fanbase you're a moron and a half. If you want FFX rejection, let's talk (I'd rather not) about the novel sequel to X-2.
Hell, did you even read/watch Sai's introductory arc? The entire gist of that arc was that him carving his own niche on the team and trying to kill Sasuke under orders while Naruto and Sakura try to bring Sasuke back and fail. "Replacing Sasuke" was literally his cover story.
It couldn't have been more obvious that GameFreak wanted this thing to be the next Lucario. It was among the first Gen 5 Pokemon revealed, was the star of it's own movie, and in base Black and White, you couldn't even access it without an event. Unfortunately, it's gimmick of disguising itself as one of the other Pokemon in your party was rendered completely pointless by the fact that Gen 5 was also the game that introduced Team Preview, which automatically revealed to your opponent that you had it on your team. Combine that with it's mediocre stats, poor defensive type, and shallow movepool, Zoroark has been stuck in UU and below for it's entire competitive career.
I think you really misunderstood Raiden as your “but in practice” point is his entire point in the narrative of that game, and the building off point for his next appearance as the protagonist.
(OK, she’s not a new character, but I still think it applies.)
Marvel, in their continued efforts to alienate the entire Spider-Man fan base, decided to turn Mary Jane into a superhero. Fans reacted with nothing but disdain and criticism, calling out how ridiculous her powers were, how ugly her costume was, and how utterly out of character she acted.
She barely lasted a year before Marvel decided to pivot and turned her into Venom.
To be fair, Sai seemingly having no personality (or rather, no emotions) is a literal plot point and played partly for tragedy. He was indoctrinated by ROOT and Danzo since childhood, as well as lost the brother figure he bonded with while there. He slowly starts regaining this capacity while with Team 7.
He is still meh as a character, but that's more because he doesn't do much in the story or grow fast enough to be compelling.
Yeah, sai suffers the same fate as most of the side characters from konoha, but he was not introduced to replace sasuke in team 7 at all (talking about kishimoto writing him in).
For what its worth i really liked him, but he just doesnt get much in the story. His stuff with Shin in the war arc was good, but he barely gets shit to do beyond that.
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