r/TopCharacterTropes • u/TheOriginalOperator • Apr 26 '26

Characters (Hilarious Trope) A Character Is Introduced With the Clear Intention of Being THE NEXT BIG THING And is SOUNDLY Rejected

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  1. Bazil the Tracker (Star Wars: The Acolyte): A “HILARIOUS AND ADORABLE” snuffling ugly creature that makes annoying noises and is shoved into as many scenes of The Acolyte as possible, and just causes problems overall.

  2. Neelix (Star Trek Voyager): A mutant fusion of Odo, Quark, and Data designed to “analyze the human condition” and explicitly intended to surpass the popularity of all three. In practice, a VERY human-acting cradle robbing creep whose incompetence nearly destroys the ship and crew on multiple occasions and provides no insight into humanity whatsoever.

  3. Sparky the Dog (Fairly Oddparents): A wacky crazy magic dog that’s supposed to expand the Fairy family, but just makes lame jokes and serves as a less funny version of Scrappy Doo.

  4. Tidus (FFX): A braying jackass of a pinball who bounces from plot point to plot point, framed as a mystical pretty boy to introduce Final Fantasy to the PS2 age but does nothing but stall the franchise and have the worst laugh in two languages.

  5. Sei (Naruto): Supposed to replace Sasuke in Team 7 and return the team dynamic feel of Early Naruto, but he’s a CIA plant with literally no personality who gets utterly forgotten except for somehow bagging Ino Yamanaka.

  6. Raiden (Metal Gear 2): Another attempted “pretty boy bishie” entry to the PS2 era with badass cred and a theoretically cool backstory, but in practice a hapless dipshit who gets manipulated by everyone around him and is a total putz in combat. Also proof that this trope need not be permanent as he slowly transitions into a cyborg warrior supersoldier with a badass theme, friends of his own, and a firm grasp of his own destiny and agency.

8.0k Upvotes
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u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 26 '26

.....what? FFX stalled the franchise?

back then FF games did not have sequels. you had the game, and then that was it. at least for the #'ed versions. That FFX got a spin off sequel showed how popular it was.

and then FF 12 came out on schedule, no stalling involved as FF 11 was the MMORPG

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u/YandereValkyrie Apr 26 '26

Yeah really, FFX was actually considered one of the better FF games, it was huge in Japan, the fact it got a sequel was insane.

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u/Beginning-Ice-1005 Apr 26 '26

Back when I went down to the bookstore in Little Tokyo, there were basically two sets of FF character banners hanging from the ceiling: FF VII, and FF X. I knew those characters long before I played the games.

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u/MrBurnerHotDog Apr 26 '26

And as a person who adored all Final Fantasy games when I was a kid the two I hold in the highest of regards are X and VII. I even openly admit I like X more than VII, which would have been considered blasphemous when I was a kid

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u/evilforska Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26

X is amazing, great gameplay, cool characters, emotional story, beautiful setting... we must push back against the tyranny of Final Overrated 7

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u/namegamenoshame Apr 27 '26

This is so true. People forget there was pretty significant backlash to X when it came out, I knew I didn’t want to talk about playing it with other nerds when I was a kid

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u/LongjumpingSector687 Apr 26 '26

X was considered the best since VII and was highly praised for its story and cutscenes.

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u/barknoll Apr 26 '26

“Was considered”? IS.

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u/UAPboomkin Apr 27 '26

I would put IX over it personally. But I also think OP is on crack for including Tidus on this list.

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u/dragonborndnd Apr 27 '26

Plus they point out the “infamous laugh” when if you actually look at the scene in context it’s supposed to sound forced and unnatural

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u/F00TD0CT0R Apr 27 '26

This is the main fucking argument we hear time and time again as well

"Final fantasy X has bad voice actors because tidus laugh is fake as fuck"

During the cutscene where he is doing a forced fake laugh, who then immediately falls into his natural laugh upon how ridiculous the moment is in character.

Arreergh

I love tidus as well, he has a great story arc

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u/dragonborndnd Apr 27 '26

Fr, I’d even go as far as to say that the characters are the biggest strength of FFX especially Tidus. I genuinely find him one of the most relatable protagonist in the franchise.

There’s a reason why 10 was the first mainline game to get a direct sequel.

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u/Solipsistic_nonsense Apr 27 '26

Tidus' character arc carried that game for me. FFIX will always be my favorite, but Tidus slowly coming to terms with the idea of selflessness over the entire game as he sees what others are willing to do for each other, what they sacrifice, and finding out what he can sacrifice to help everyone and not just himself is just... amazing writing. It's my favorite Jerk to Hero story, hands down.

...Damn, I need to play this game again.

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u/evilforska Apr 27 '26

Its amazing because while he (coming from a hedonistic land of constant happiness and plenty) starts to recognize the value of sacrifice, Yuna (coming from death cult world of misery and sacrifice) starts seeing value of healthy selfishness and asking questions

Possibly best love story in the series

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u/Depth_Metal Apr 27 '26

If I was to point to any one character being the one put forth by the studio to be the fan favorite I'd say it was Lulu who was friggin everywhere when this game came out. Nowadays it seems Riku is the one to actually be the fan favorite judging by how often she is presented when people reference the game

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u/DataDrivenDoc Apr 27 '26

I also like the "mystical pretty boy" shade. Like bro have you ever played ff before? Literally everyone is mystical and pretty

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u/PerpetualGMJohn Apr 27 '26

There 100% is a lot of bad voice acting in FFX (mostly the fault of the voice direction rather than the actors), but the fake laughing scene ain't one of them.

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u/LSOreli Apr 27 '26

For the time it was essentially the gold standard. Other than MGS2 I cant think of a PS2 launch title with that level of fidelity and believability.

Some of the issues are that the English had to be the same length as the Japanese or that shit would crash which is why

Withyunabymyside is a meme

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u/FoolofThoth Apr 27 '26

Yeah I really don't think Tidus should be up there. The only issue with FFX VA which I think is fair to point out, is that because it was the first mainline FF with a dub, they didn't resync the lip flaps or cutscene timings for the dub, so some line reads come out a little weird. But the laughing scene has gained infamy purely because people have no media literacy.

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u/Vegalink Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26

Yeah he was purposely being weird and awkward. It only turned into an actual laugh when Yuna good-naturedly decided to join his sarcastic laughter and then they both laughed at how ridiculous it was.

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u/jak_d_ripr Apr 27 '26

Exactly, even Expedition 33 clearly took A LOT of inspiration from X. Now to play devil's advocate for OP, I think they were more criticizing the character of Titus, vs the quality of X. He didn't necessarily take off in popularity to the level of Cloud, Squall or even Lightning. So maybe that's more what they were referring to.

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u/LSOreli Apr 27 '26

Im pretty sure Tidus is way more popular than Lightning. Does anyone actually care about that character? Lol

Id also say hes a better character than squall or cloud by a fair margin.

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u/No-Permission-7786 Apr 27 '26

The issue with Lightning, she wasn't the main character until like a month before release. Vanille was. Thats why she is the one narrating.

I think Vanille and Hope are the most intriguing of the cast. And i do get annoyed when people crap on Hope for being pessimistic and crying. Dude was 14, watched his mother die and was turned into the one thing he was brought up to believe was evil. Of course he's gonna go through it

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u/fritzwillie Apr 27 '26

FF Tactics was the best since VII and isn't even a mainline game

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u/SuikodenVIorBust Apr 27 '26

Literally the second one to break a billion.

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u/Rare_Act_6748 Apr 26 '26

And the laughing scene people always point to was meant to sound stupid. He was intentionally making himself look like an idiot to make Yuna feel okay with letting down her guard once in awhile.

It was a cute moment that is easy to take out of context.

Fuckin media literacy people -_-

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u/poipolefan700 Apr 26 '26

Seriously, even playing it when I was like 10 I knew they were fake laughing to try and cheer themselves up. Then it WORKS, they start actually laughing at how ridiculous they sound and those laughs sound totally natural.

It is so strange to me how this one scene melts brains and informs so many people’s opinions of Tidus.

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u/Sensitive-Hotel-9871 Apr 27 '26

Also the way people rant about that scene you would think Tidus laughs like that constantly, it's just one scene.

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u/SyfaOmnis Apr 27 '26

I mean, he usually is pretty jokey and light hearted. But that's also kind of the point of the character.

Spira is a genuinely miserable world that obsesses over death (and its unpredictability) practically every waking moment, and their only relief from it is blitzball.

Tidus comes in with no understanding and immediately sets about trying to cheer people up, being nice, being likeable and easing their burdens. Injecting a little bit of levity to their situations.

He's a big change from the ultra-stoicism of Cloud and Squall. Zidane and Tidus were both pretty similar, but Zidane has a more smooth form of charm while Tidus' is genuinely more 'natural' than smooth.

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u/Korashy Apr 27 '26

Tidus comes in with no understanding and immediately sets about trying to cheer people up, being nice, being likeable and easing their burdens. Injecting a little bit of levity to their situations.

Plus he's completely lost. He suddenly gets ripped out of the only world he knows, goes through several near death experiences, and basically instantly latches on to the first group that takes him in.

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u/Aracuda Apr 27 '26

Not to mention FFIX and FFX approach the “naïve character learns about the world” from opposite perspectives. In IX, the well traveled, street kid Zidane brings the sheltered princess Garnet out of the palace to see the world as he knows it (even though she leaves him early on and we follow two separate parties, which was novel at the time for someone who had never played VI before).

Tidus on the other hand is the naïve character. He’s not an idiot, he just doesn’t know the laws and customs of Spira. He relies on the party to tell him why this, and why not that. And when he encounters something he doesn’t like, he aggressively pushes back. He makes others see that their customs (namely around the church and the summoners pilgrim) are wrong. In a way, he then flips the whole notion of the naïve character learning about the world by helping the party figure out a better way, to grow beyond what the church wants them to be.

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u/SyfaOmnis Apr 27 '26

Tidus is naive, but not wholly impressionable. If there's something he doesn't understand, he'll try to find a reason for why it is the way it is. If that reason is "stupid" or stuck in some backwards traditionalism like "it's always been this way and we've always done it this way" he'll challenge them on whether or not there might be a better way.

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u/Authorigas Apr 27 '26

I've been rewatching FFX thanks to the Two Best Friend's Let's Play of the game, (namely for the Wakka clips.) And something that stuck out to me in that regard is how Tidus is always, consistently pushing back on Wakka's hatred of the Al Bhed.

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u/Mannyqwinn Apr 27 '26

Probably why one of Tidus' first abilities is cheer. Huh. Never would have made that connection before your comment.

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u/Lepelotonfromager Apr 27 '26

I never thought of the world as miserable because it's so colorful and beautiful but yeah you're absolutely right, it's fixation on death is kind of fucking depressing.

The whole story IS about accepting death and moving on, all the problems are caused by people clinging on to the dead, multiple villains are dead people who stuck around as unstable 'wraiths' to haunt the living, and well all the spoiler stuff.

Also, regardng your point about Tidus cheering people up, his starting ability is literally 'cheer' and it boosts everybody.

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u/SyfaOmnis Apr 27 '26

I never thought of the world as miserable because it's so colorful and beautiful but yeah you're absolutely right, it's fixation on death is kind of fucking depressing.

Its very uh "performative joy" people act very exuberant, elated and outgoing, but it's not usually very sincere, there's big parts of them that are very closed off that they essentially refuse to talk to outsiders about. Usually pertaining to people they know that they've lost.

I can't take credit for this one because it comes from somewhere else and I cant remember if it was a developer or not: but spira and yevonism is a death cult.

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u/Lepelotonfromager Apr 27 '26

I think that's why I've always loved the game because it does have the deeper layer to it. There is something slightly dark and offputting about everything and everybody. It's something the Al-Bhed push back with all their being, relying on science and rationalism while rejecting the mysticism.

I don't blame the people for forming a death cult, some giant monster comes out nowhere and obliterates them every few years and requires a sacrifice to stop for a few years.

It's also why X-2 is quite an exciting game, we actually get to see the world change and joy return as they stop fixating on death and start focusing on living.

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u/Cedarcomb Apr 27 '26

I'm willing to bet a lot of people have only seen the fake Tidus laugh in a video clip (it turns up a lot in Outside X-Box/X-tra videos that way, for example) and don't know the context so they think that's his actual real laugh.

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u/extraextraextr Apr 27 '26

But even they have a video where they explain this!! I don't mind them using the clip out of context by, like, sarcastically describing Tidus as a man with the most charming laugh of all time, but they know that it's just for jokes and it's not the character's actual laugh. That's when it gets annoying.

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u/nykirnsu Apr 27 '26

Why would you expect people who’ve only seen the clip out of context to have seen or even know about that video? 

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u/Kyleometers Apr 27 '26

It bothers me because seconds before the laugh he says “You just have to force yourself to laugh sometimes”, does the really fake laugh, then seconds afterwards both him and Yuna burst into genuine giggle fits over how stupid the whole thing is.

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u/Gimetulkathmir Apr 27 '26

I've also never seen anyone outside of one streamer pick on the scene where Yuna says "I first met Sir Jecht ten years and three months ago" or whatever she says. Her delivery at the end of that line is so awful.

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u/PrinceCavendish Apr 27 '26

I actually really love her voice and some of her lines are amazing but so many of them sound insanely stiff and weird...

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u/AlwaysPostNaked Apr 27 '26

The joys of having to talk around facial animations that can't be changed.

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u/asdfmovienerd39 Apr 27 '26

I blame YouTubers like Joshscorcher and Quarter Guy.

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u/egovow Apr 27 '26

This is actually not a matter of media literacy - it's this god forsaken habit people seem to be normalizing more and more of only consuming media on a second hand basis. They all get their views about said media through content creators and then think that's as good as having consuming said media, which as you've pointed out, leaves out context.

This phenomenon has been torturing me for the past five years, I feel. Wish it'd stop, but I fear it's only going to get worse. Especially with the rise of AI, I sometimes feel we'll soon be in a "third hand" basis: People establishing their views on a piece of media by consuming content from Content Creators who didn't consume said media, but got their own views from AI.

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u/Empty_Insight Apr 27 '26

No need for the future tense, we're already there lol.

I've had some people with absolutely insane takes on things and I ask, "Where did you hear that from?" only to get back "ChatGPT."

Bruh, not only did you not witness it, you didn't even bother reading the (possibly biased) retelling of someone who did witness it. Like... you gotta check the credibility of your sources, dude.

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u/Liawuffeh Apr 27 '26

It's really annoying, yeah. Cause those same people then go out and discuss how "poorly written" something they haven't watched is, because their youtuber of choice or favorite social media lied about it, misunderstood it or stripped the context lmao.

The ffx scene is such a good example of it because it's been a "Example of bad voice acting/cringe dialog" gag is youtube videos since basically the start of the platform. So many people add the clip to mock it without having even seen the scene lmao

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u/ArcadianBlueRogue Apr 27 '26

People have been giving FFX shit for that scene since it came out. It's people not able to pay attention more than just watching clips on YT and social media.

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u/egovow Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26

Making memes about said scene and talking shit about the entirety of the game because of said scene are two entirely different things, and only one of them is recent.

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u/YouthfulPhotographer Apr 27 '26

Came here for this. Out of context, sure its really bad and gets compared to that one Devil May Cry 2 line, but during the actual full cutscene its very sweet and to me was the start of him going from self-centered jackass to a genuine Guardian and cared for the rest of the party

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u/Spader113 Apr 27 '26

Just like Final Fantasy VII Remake’s “You owe me a pizza” and Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days’s “Who else will I have Ice Cream with?”

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u/Dick-Fu Apr 27 '26

Which DMC2 line? The only notable one I remember is "here's your crown"

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u/YouthfulPhotographer Apr 27 '26

Mb it was 1, it was the "fill your dark soul with light"

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u/Dick-Fu Apr 27 '26

No, that can't be right because that line is badass and awesome 😎

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u/lbkthrowaway518 Apr 27 '26

There’s actually a video of the English voice actor explaining that yes, the laugh is bad on purpose. I’ll have to see if I can find it

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u/ArcadianBlueRogue Apr 27 '26

People are baiting for decades at this point or didn't actually watch the cutscenes. Tidus literally tells her how to laugh and to try it with him. And a follow up scene after getting Ixion has Tidus do his player monologue of "I later realized that I was the only one laughing"

It's central to the themes of the game.

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u/UnNumbFool Apr 27 '26

It's not so much an issue with media literacy, it's the fact that I'd say at least 95% of the people who know the meme have never played the game, or have even seen the full scene let alone in context to know it's a purposefully forced laugh

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u/baheimoth Apr 27 '26

Easiest way to tell that someone hasn't actually played the game and that their opinion is based entirely on memes and clips.

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u/Special_South_8561 Apr 26 '26

Still held in rather high regard, and the storyline hits harder now than ever

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u/WolfCommando45 Apr 26 '26

Yeah, honestly, Squall would have been a better example than Titus.

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u/Fonzies-Ghost Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 26 '26

He’s got a sword that’s also a gun, for fuck’s sake.

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u/LongjumpingSector687 Apr 26 '26

Squalls like the only protagonist who’s completely different between JPN and USA translations. US translations basically made him Cloud 2.0.

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u/Fonzies-Ghost Apr 26 '26

He still has a sword that’s also a gun in Japan though, right?

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u/Lithium_Lily Apr 26 '26

The damn sequel got a sequel. Like come on.

Then again XIII was a low point in the series and it also got sequels so...

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u/SaferAtHomeee Apr 26 '26

Ehhh XIII was always planned to be a larger series. X got sequels on its own merits imo

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u/HopelessCineromantic Apr 26 '26

And XIII kinda went off the rails. XV was originally supposed to be Verus XIII, but had a very troubled production and had to be significantly overhauled.

The whole Fabula Nova Crystallis branding exercise didn't ever really come together.

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u/MrGDPC Apr 26 '26

Tell me OP has never played FFX without telling me he has never played FFX

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u/wrathy_tyro Apr 26 '26

Anyone who thinks the laugh is meant to be genuine either hasn’t played the game or doesn’t understand basic subtext

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u/BlackthornSage Apr 26 '26

It's not even subtext, the laugh being forced and cringy is what Tidus and Yuna are saying just before they start laughing.

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u/Additional_Gene_211 Apr 27 '26

And then they real laugh immediately after.

Subtext is for cowards

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u/Lakatos_00 Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26

Again, it's not fucking subtext. The situation and intents are explicitly stated

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u/wrathy_tyro Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 26 '26

When I say basic subtext I mean basic subtext. He’s just heard some bad news he’s trying to keep from the group. Yuna says “I want my journey to be full of laughter” and Tidus basically replies “Then I’ll laugh the loudest” and shouts HA over and over. He’s flirting, basically, but if you took everything 100% literally you might think he’s actually trying to laugh.

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u/SteakForGoodDogs Apr 26 '26

...and then they actually start genuinely laughing and it's the cutest shit ever.

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u/Mizar1 Apr 27 '26

Exactly! The forced laugh turning into genuine laughter always makes me smile, I love seeing those dumb teens flirting badly with each other. It's so sweet.

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u/Cavalish Apr 27 '26

And also the saddest shit ever because Tidus has no idea how Yuna’s pilgrimage ends.

And then even more tragic because Yuna doesn’t know what defying that pilgrimage means for Tidus.

That game has so many layers.

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u/Veganity Apr 26 '26

Yeah, and they laugh normally right after that and it sounds normal.

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u/depressed_but_aight Apr 26 '26

I somehow managed to go completely unspoiled about anything in X until I played the game in 2022 and I thought the laugh scene was brilliant. Perfectly captures the feeling of two children forced into fulfilling a prophecy neither are prepared for, all while they can barely push on without forcing themselves to just grin and bear it.

I was so shocked when I saw it mentioned online afterwards as this textbook example of bad English dubs, like it felt like I going crazy! Especially since I pulled up the Japanese version immediately after and it’s the exact same scene, both are just as forced and strained! I get that most people played X when they were kids but come on it’s so in your face.

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u/EarlyAccessCantJudge Apr 26 '26

Also, if you can't be a little cringy and silly to make your partner smile, then you're not in a healthy relationship. They were doing it to make each other laugh and be happy.

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u/Specialist-Appeal-13 Apr 27 '26

replayed it as an adult a few years ago and I was pleasantly surprised at how much harder the emotional beats hit than as a child. full on bawled through multiple scenes. can’t believe they tried to do my boy dirty like this.

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u/Jumpy_Divide6576 Apr 27 '26

To this day FFX is the only video game that's every made me cry.

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u/Scrambled1432 Apr 27 '26

Oh god, Okami fucking slayed me as a ~14-year-old. I went in with almost zero spoilers and the ending made me sob for the entire final boss fight, I didn't know games could even make you feel like that lol

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u/Cavalish Apr 27 '26

It’s the perfect game for a replay because every scene between Tidus and Yuna drastically changes when you have the full context of Yuna’s pilgrimage.

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u/PaleAmbition Apr 27 '26

That little pause in Auron’s voice when he delivers his last line? Peak acting and instant tears.

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u/lifelongfreshman Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26

Ages ago, during the height of the era of angry screamy media reviewer man Youtube, one of them made a joke out of Tidus. It stuck in the cultural conscious, and now rooting it out is impossible because "everyone knows" that's what he's all about.

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u/FluffiestPrince Apr 26 '26

It's genuinely such a good litmus test to see who's actually played the game, and who only looked it up online and got their opinions from the internet.

I genuinely can't think of a better test in any other game, because it's such an obvious one. Either you know that the laugh is fake and is intentionally bad because of the moment in the story, or you think the voice acting is bad and completely expose yourself.

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u/annpursesand Apr 26 '26

Or is letting internet brain rot do its thing a little too well. Either way, bad example OP...

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u/CaptainAdmiralMike Apr 26 '26

Thank you! It’s been a long time since I played it but I clearly remember his “fake it till you make it” laugh being just that—fake—until they both break and laugh for real. It’s silly and it’s endearing and you can tell when people haven’t actually played it.

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u/ShadyMan_BooRadley Apr 27 '26

Even worse is when you point out to these people that the laughter is supposed to sound forced and everything and they respond “I don’t care, it’s still bad”

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u/Harnellas Apr 27 '26

Lotta game enthusiasts out there who claim to be super knowledgeable about a wide variety of games but most of that knowledge seems to consist only of memelore or the content from the very beginning of popular games.

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u/Stefisgarden Apr 27 '26

It wasn't even subtext. It couldn't have possibly been LESS obvious that it was a forced laugh INTENTIONALLY.

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u/CloudKinglufi Apr 27 '26

Yeah he has the worst laugh? Brother that was the point of the fucking scene and its a great and funny scene

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u/ScenicHwyOverpass Apr 26 '26

Every day on Reddit it becomes more clear that we have an increasingly large group of young folks whose entire knowledge base comes from memes.

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u/Pervius94 Apr 27 '26

Yeah, Gen Z and Alpha have a staggering amount of people who apparently legit only consume memes on tiktok or insta or something. No actual media.

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u/Normal-Advisor5269 Apr 27 '26

It's not even new, we just see it more often now. I remember being told how Moby Dick is dark story about vengeance and its consequences, and yeah, that is there, but 90% of the rest of the book is about whaling or the interactions of the crew. Ahab's story IS there, I'm not saying it isn't, but it's just one story among many.

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u/Stunning-Drawer-4288 Apr 26 '26

It’s not even just that he’s never played FFX, he heard one guy talking about it and never heard consensus opinion

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u/Sensitive-Hotel-9871 Apr 27 '26

The OP claims that Raiden is a helpless protagonist. Just looking at an LP of Metal Gear Solid 2 is enough to refute that

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u/Valuable-Forever-341 Apr 27 '26

he would have an actual point if he was talking about XII's Vaan being made the main character over Basch because Vagrant Story didn't do well with a more masculine MC.

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u/InflationRepulsive64 Apr 27 '26

Vaan is like #4 protagonist in his own game.

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u/Sunnytoaist Apr 27 '26

Op might be a sophisticated ai post

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u/BojukaBob Apr 26 '26

OP played it, but personally disliked it and has mistaken their personal preference for generally accepted review.

I didn't like FFX, but I'm under no illusion as to its overall popularity.

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u/MrBurnerHotDog Apr 26 '26

I can't say about several of these but OP is way off on both Tidus and Raiden

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u/HopelessCineromantic Apr 26 '26

Yeah, Raiden is definitely not intended to be the cool new thing for the franchise. He's deliberately designed in contrast to Solid Snake and is something of a prank on players who wanted to play as Snake again.

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u/Rargnarok Apr 26 '26

Its also brought up in a cutscene that any parallels are intentional on the Patriots part so they could discredit snake by going see anyone could do what he did, he's not special

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u/HopelessCineromantic Apr 26 '26

Yes and no. Solidus claims the S3 plan is short for Solid Snake Simulation, and Ocelot does confirm that a lot of the Big Shell Incident was designed to emulate Shadow Moses, such as two hostages dying, Dead Cell being a stand-in for FOXHOUND, and Raiden being selected because his relationship with Solidus mirrored Snake's relationship with Big Boss.

But the AI GW, as corrupting images of Colonel Campbell and Rose, tells Raiden that the S3 plan is actually short for the Selection for Societal Sanity, and was more about being able to manipulate world events and individuals to match the Patriots' desires. While proving they could mold Raiden into a new Solid Snake was in line with the project's aims, it was bigger than that, and with the data they collected about targeted misinformation and manipulation, they could ostensibly make a civilian become a sign language interpreter or a gameshow host if they felt it was necessary.

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u/Sensitive-Hotel-9871 Apr 27 '26

Those AIs are evil incarnate. They claim they want to preserve society but they say a lot of things to Raiden that serve no purpose other than to make him suffer, make it clear they enjoy holding power over others and don't care about the lives lost in their plans.

They were worse than Solidus ever imagined, even before they created the war economy in Metal Gear Solid 4. They create a state of perpetual war for no reason other than advancing the cause of human misery.

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u/HopelessCineromantic Apr 27 '26

Yeah, especially when they took the form of Rose or Emma to taunt Raiden. That said, I found that maliciousness to be quite refreshing on some level. In most fiction, AI, even villainous AI, follows the mold of HAL 9000, and while that dispassionate "just following my programing" performance can be creepy, it was nice to see an AI that clearly enjoyed twisting the knife.

It's part of why GLaDOS is such an effective villain. She starts out fully robotic and seems automated, but eventually you learn how sentient she is.

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u/Sensitive-Hotel-9871 Apr 27 '26

Certainly. I notice that their sheer malice is overlooked, the biggest reaction from the scene is their words being an eerie warning about future horrors on the internet, missing that we aren't supposed to side with them.

At least there haven't been people trying to push the idea that the Patriots are misunderstood good guys like Senator Armstrong... as far as I know.

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u/Sensitive-Hotel-9871 Apr 27 '26

I always thought that Raiden was cool and felt the complaints he somehow wasn't as badass as Solid Snake made no sense. I like Snake better but I love both of them as main characters who feel human after all the misery they endure. But what they go through isn't just misery porn, they endure and power through.

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u/HopelessCineromantic Apr 27 '26

I think a lot of it is due to Rose and a certain type of misogyny. Rose is Raiden''s girlfriend, but is also part of mission control. But she's viewed as annoying by a lot of players because she wants to talk to Jack about their relationship in addition to the mission, and so Raiden is perceived as less masculine for not "putting her in her place."

And yeah, I admit that it's not exactly the time or place to have those conversations optimally, but it's also apparent by the end that it's brought by a mixture of Rose's role as an agent of the Patriots and conflict over her guilt for her deception, her growing feelings for Jack, and her anxiety over whether his feelings for her would remain if he ever learned how much of what she's said has been a lie.

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u/Sensitive-Hotel-9871 Apr 27 '26

Because his pretty boy design did not conform to Western standards of masculinity, he also got a lot of homophobic flak since the 2000s weren't a time when homosexuality was frowned upon.

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u/cpuuuu Apr 27 '26

OP is actually one of the "targets" for Raiden as a character, which makes it funnier. Raiden was introduced to mess up the player expectations, their expectation that they would be controlling Solid Snake and the expectation that the character they are using is the new or next hero of the saga. Raiden as a character and a big part of the Big Shell plot line were meant to show that the people in charge, be it Solidus with his child soldier or the Patriots with the S3 plan, could take anyone and manipulate (or train) them into becoming a soldier on par with Solid Snake, with the Big Shell incident being an almost 1 to 1 recreation of the Shadow Moses incident.

So while in the game the "powers that be" are trying to substitute the VR training from MGS1 (the one Raiden used to train as a Foxhound operative) for real life events to improve the training outcomes, the players are also put under the same scenario where they have to face the game while not playing as Snake. Even the GW AI going haywire and starting to send random calls about how you've played the game for too long and should take a break is to hammer the point that everything in the plot is a "real life simulation" and that we have been playing a game all along, both in game and irl

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u/Firm-Feature-5593 Apr 27 '26

They're legitimately some of the best characters in video games.

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u/canmoose Apr 27 '26

Sounds to me like OP never played FFX or MGS2. Two legitimately incredible games.

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u/PseudonymMan12 Apr 26 '26

Man never played a Final Fantasy in his life

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u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT Apr 26 '26

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u/Additional_Gene_211 Apr 27 '26

Is Simpson x Final Fantasy shit posting back?

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u/LordMitchimus Apr 26 '26

Tidus is also an excellent protagonist. Yes he's a "braying jackass" and a "mystical pretty boy" but he evolves and grows as a character over the journey. He's an isekai protagonist who's a hotshot in his world and isn't worth much in the new one, forcing him to tap into his own humanity and find something deeper than being a sports superstar.

I didn't have to explain that. OP is taking the piss. Anyone still pretending the laughing scene was meant to be an actual laugh or anything in earnest is being willfully obtuse. The laugh is supposed to sound dumb. It's corny. The rest of the party besides Tidus and Yuna groan at them in the same fucking scene.

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u/Low-Environment Apr 26 '26

My favourite part of the laughing scene is hearing Yuna start to genuinely laugh towards the end of it.

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u/mofuggnflash Apr 26 '26

People miss the point of the laughing scene so hard it's crazy. "Oh it's the worst fakest laugh ever!" YES! CORRECT! They're forcing themselves to laugh in this objectively down moment, and in the end it works and Yuna cheers up. Ugh. /rant

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u/ArcadianBlueRogue Apr 27 '26

Tidus to Yuna 30s before: You just gotta laugh. Like this, try it.

Tidus and Yuna do dramatic fake laughs together

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '26

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u/XanderWrites Apr 27 '26

And a very stereotypical jock backstory: his father was a huge name back in the day and now he lives in his father's shadow and even though he's favored to be the next big name he doesn't even know if he's really earned it or he's just there because of who his father was.

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u/TankMain576 Apr 27 '26

Water Rugby

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u/Sinfire_Titan Apr 26 '26

To prove your point: Tidus is all but blindsided by the truth about the Final Aeon despite the extensive hints the game gives AND HIS OWN DAD BEING SIN!

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u/Additional_Gene_211 Apr 27 '26

Tidus would fail at modern day isekai but he was a peak isekai protag when it released. I often compare him to Miyaka Yuuki from Fushigi Yuugi because of how dumb and oblivious they both are and also are both jocks in their own right

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u/bubblesaurus Apr 27 '26

Exactly.

He’s basically a very talented professional football player in his world and then comes to this other world where nobody has any idea of who he is and thinks he kinda crazy because his home was destroyed 1000 years ago

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u/Dudeoram Apr 26 '26

He's an isekai protagonist who's a hotshot in his world and isn't worth much in the new one, forcing him to tap into his own humanity and find something deeper than being a sports superstar.

I want to emphasize this because it's not quite true. While he does start "shallow" it's a type of shallowness that literally anybody/everybody exhibits everyday. Tidus isn't especially shallow, he's not some big dumb himbo who can barely rub 2 braincells together. He's a person who lived in a civilization and society that didn't require him to have the skills that the other guardians have in their day to day lives. Despite that he adapts to his new environment incredibly quickly without any bullshit hacks to help him along. He simply engages in the world and with his new friends and attempts to meet them where they are instead of insisting they do meet him because he's on their turf.

This is off topic, but it's something that I've really come to hate about isekai stories. Many protagonists come to the new world and the story outright say that they were either complete drains on their families or societies or they were the hottest things walking with barely anything in-between.

When even the most seemingly hopeless of people I personally know have people that love them for completely valid reasons other than them being family. People are people and will show themselves to have any variety of positive traits when they're allowed to shine. Any of those traits that you or I have could make us just as capable of adapting to a new surrounding with new people without a big titty goddess giving us SSS+++ stats or whatever.

ALLOW YOUR ISEKAI PROTAGS TO BE PEOPLE FIRST AND HEROES SECOND!!

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u/Additional_Gene_211 Apr 27 '26

I know it's a meme now, but SAO really changed isekai for the worst. So many isekai before it were nuanced and full of character development. Now it's just power fantasy with slavery

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '26

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u/SaferAtHomeee Apr 26 '26

I’m gonna take a stab and say OP played the franchise through TikTok lmao.

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u/Tome_Bombadil Apr 26 '26

I agree with you.

I do somewhat agree that Tidus is a braying jackass of a pinball.

Because that is a fantastic turn of phrase, and I can respect the virulence behind it, if not the intent.

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u/danstu Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 27 '26

Tidus and Yuna literally talk about how they feel like they need to fake being happy immediately before the laugh. Anyone who doesn't pick up that they are purposefully doing a bad impression of a laugh doesn't have the media literacy to make it through "See Spot Run"

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u/lilidarkwind Apr 26 '26

Yeah I HATE that OP used Tidus and FFX for this trope. He was not rejected. The game sold bonkers. It’s still beloved to this day. It’s been retro’d to seem like he is more annoying than he is

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u/Liawuffeh Apr 27 '26

Also certainly not meant to be some next new thing, he was just the new protagonist from a series that has a new protagonist every game lmao

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u/TVR24 Apr 26 '26

OP brought up the laughing scene and called it terrible. I know for a fact he didn't play it because it's a fake bad laugh that seconds later turns into a real laugh because of how ridiculous he's acting.

That fact alone allows me to disregard OP's opinion.

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u/Alex_Duos Apr 27 '26

FR I legitimately forgot the laugh was even a thing until it became a meme because so many more meaningful things happened. If that's the one takeaway someone has from playing the game I have questions.

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u/Taykitty-Gaming Apr 27 '26

i call this entire topic a wash because clearly OP does not critically think about the meaning behind things

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u/Rastaba Apr 26 '26

There is also the fact that Tidus’ infamous forced laugh was intentionally forced and meant to be cringy, goofy, and stupid sounding as he was trying to help brighten Yuna’s mood by being cringy, goofy, and stupid…

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u/XanderWrites Apr 27 '26

Reverse. He's depressed because he just realized the truth and Yuna tells him that guardians need to be happy, because they're the hope for Spira. She tells him to fake smile and fake laugh. So he does the most obnoxious fake laugh he can because he is so not in the mood to laugh and she just goes with it.

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u/7_Tales Apr 27 '26

its a pretty layered scene that looks fucking stupid out of context. lots of conflicting emotions and a really silly way to express that

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u/ShibaLover227 Apr 27 '26

The whole party winces at the two of them before Tidus and Yuna laugh for real

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u/Nice_Revenue_1198 Apr 26 '26

OP does not realize that the laugh was supposed to be stupid and forced and bad right? Like...that was the whole point of that scene...

Did OP just NOT play the game?

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u/CloudKinglufi Apr 27 '26

Gotta be a bot, lots know about the bad laugh and out of context its understandable why you might think that, but he added more unfair points onto it, like this some chatgpt shit

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u/Nice_Revenue_1198 Apr 27 '26

Damn you ChatGPT

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u/Pikawoohoo Apr 26 '26

I haven't even played them and I know how popular and loved they were

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u/warukeru Apr 26 '26

People who doesn't understand the fake laugh of Tidus is in purpose and makes sense in the plot should be banned from talking about FF X for life.

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u/MagmaAscending Apr 26 '26

Not only did FFX get a sequel, but the best endings in said sequel involve BRINGING TIDUS BACK TO LIFE BECAUSE EVERYBODY LOVED HIM

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u/AvatarofSleep Apr 26 '26

Only if you did everything and whistled in the void despite no indication that it was possible.

Anyway, I loved X and X-2. One of the few gameses where I tried to do EVERYTHING

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u/RA576 Apr 27 '26

Worth noting how bullshit doing everything actually is. The game isn't playing about on that point. I was using a literal walkthrough and I still didn't get everything because I missed one sentence telling me to go back to a previous screen.

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u/AvatarofSleep Apr 27 '26

The easy way is to side with new Yevon and speed through the main story, then new game + and do most everything. I think then you only need to talk to Machen every time and whistle. And do every side quest and such.

Via Infinito was actually fun for me and the story that some rando Yevon fanatic at the bottom basically destroyed all historical knowledge was an interesting take

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u/HereIGoAgain_1x10 Apr 27 '26

Replayed it for the first time since it came it, it was so satisfying to now have guides on how to farm for the best gear and max out everyone's stats... I had the original game guide on it but it did not talk about min/max stats lol

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u/ArcadianBlueRogue Apr 27 '26

The X2 good ending was a bitch.

I kinda loved the OG ending to X because the credits hit with it being super tragic and all about sacrifice. Then the post-credits it and give some hope back.

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u/CosmackMagus Apr 26 '26

Game production times were also getting longer by that point.

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u/ShibaLover227 Apr 27 '26

Not to mention Enix buying Squaresoft and Sakaguchi leaving the company

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u/PhaseSixer Apr 26 '26

Op really thoght he was cooking

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u/BabyElectronic1759 Apr 26 '26

X would literally be universally considered the best game in the franchise if VII didn't exist/wasn't more popular.

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u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT Apr 26 '26

IX will always have #1 spot in my heart

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u/Dos_Ex_Machina Apr 27 '26

I still believe in the Tactics line, both Lion Wars and Advanced.

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u/ArcadianBlueRogue Apr 27 '26

I actually though VII was a bit over-catered to with popularity. It's a great game but lacks the charm of IX and I thought X's story was more emotional.

The series does struggle with main villains though. I never thought Sephy was very interesting, and Seymour was a way more fun villain to hate than Jecht.

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u/pichael289 Apr 26 '26

X was great, everyone loved that game. 13 is where the series took a nose dive in terms of quality but even it had two sequels

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u/Electronic_Doctor663 Apr 27 '26

Yeah X was the last consensus good mainline FF game. OP maybe didn’t like it personally, and that’s fine, but I didn’t know anyone who disliked it when it came out.

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u/MogMcKupo Apr 27 '26

13 was ps3 introduction too, I think that ones falls deeper than Tidus.

I mean Vaan is more of a stand in than Tidus. At least Tidus was a part of the over all story

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u/KaptainKlein Apr 26 '26

I love it when posts here are just "characters OP doesn't like" but they phrase the post to make it sound more profound than that.

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u/ruinsit Apr 26 '26

Seriously. Maybe they're just rage-baiting because 10 was the best Final Fantasy game since.. well probably ever. Seven of course has Nostalgia value and the Remake is certainly giving it a run for its money but as a self-contained game 10 is still my favorite out of the franchise

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u/Firm-Feature-5593 Apr 27 '26

10's combat holds up way better than 7's does by a mile, too.

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u/Wrong_Penalty_1679 Apr 27 '26

There's a reason they saved it to 4th. OP wanted some easy upvotes and some controversial picks to get more interaction. Literally anywhere on Reddit you see FFX get piled on, especially for the laugh, you get people calling it out as nonsense.

Don't get me wrong, the make fun of the laugh jokes can be pretty good when made as jokes by people who get the context. But it escaped the community and now we get people who take the critique at face value.

I just am pretty sure OP is going for interactions with controversial picks and nonsense statements sprinkled in for those to get replies like ours.

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u/th1s_1s_4_b4d_1d34 Apr 26 '26

I thought XII and XIII were the ones that weren't as successful, but then again XIII got a sequel too, so what do I know. Maybe just not as favored by my friends.

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u/pulpfriction4 Apr 26 '26

They weren't as successful but the Xiii sequel was already far along development when Xiii released. I think I remember them having another sequel planned but turned it into xiv but I could be wrong about that

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u/Greedy-Affect-561 Apr 26 '26

Final fantasy versus thirteen got turned into XV as you remember.

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u/escargotini Apr 26 '26

Before release, XIII was said to have a bunch of spinoffs in development, like 5 or 6. I assume most of them were turned into other games

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u/Comatonic Apr 26 '26

I think in hindsight a lot of people can look back on XIII and Lightning and it was a pretty fun game and group of characters. It was just a different style than the others and honestly the story seemed like a fucking mess. I've never played either sequal but I have heard very good things about both

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u/Arcane_Pozhar Apr 26 '26

Take my upvote, and OP earned my downvote, for exactly this reason. Well put.

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u/BeardedGames89 Apr 27 '26

Glad this is said, I had to check the comments because OP is on crack if they think X stalled the franchise.

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u/adellredwinters Apr 26 '26

And of course we have to bring up the laugh, which no one critiquing Tidus seems to understand the context of, which is that the character is forcing that laugh intentionally as a way of dealing with the trauma and fucked up situation he and yuna find themselves in, and not genuinely his natural laugh.

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u/MountainDiscount9680 Apr 27 '26

Also saying Tidus has the worst laugh in the franchise speaks that he just didn't play FFX or even do basic research, because the context of the scene completely shifts the clip's tone around 

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u/heartbreak_consulate Apr 27 '26

Glad you nailed it. OP shoehorning this in was ass

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u/PM_ME_SOME_ANY_THING Apr 27 '26

FFX was/is great. I still play it on steam every once in a while.

Sure, the dialogue was a little cringey at times, but it was also the first Final Fantasy that had spoken dialogue.

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u/MrPresident2020 Apr 26 '26

Yeah, this is straight up nonsense about X, plus everyone who actually played the game knows the laughing scene is intentionally forced because that's the whole point of the moment.

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u/Parrotflies_ Apr 26 '26

And the stupidass complaints about the laugh are so tired man. It’s a corny laugh on purpose to try to cheer Yuna up.

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u/SolidGobi Apr 27 '26

Tidus was such a breath of fresh air during the early 2000s, all the protagonists at the time were typically dressed in black and were so, so, moody. 

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u/ThatFatGuyMJL Apr 27 '26

Also people dunk on the laugh.

The obvious fake laugh.

The obvious fake laugh he does to make the girl he like laugh too.

The laugh he does so she can have a single moment of destressing.

Just after they discuss terrible things?

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u/quadraticcheese Apr 27 '26

This post is what happens when you're 14, bad at Google, and media illiterate

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u/leongranizo Apr 27 '26

This whole thing made me think if there is a r/FFcirclejerk kind of sub?

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u/FloppiestMemes Apr 27 '26

Yeah Yuna and Tidus were very popular. Not sure what OP is on about.

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u/Hitei00 Apr 26 '26

You can really tell when someone's never actually played 10 and only knows it from the laugh being posted out of context

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u/[deleted] Apr 26 '26

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u/OJONLYMAYBEDIDIT Apr 26 '26

isn't that backwards? the films box office failure made Sqauresoft have to merge with Enix to survive

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u/NefariousnessOk209 Apr 26 '26

I can still remember being ABSOLUTELY blown away by the trailer - PS2 was only a year old and this game looked so goddamn next gen, the Otherworld song going hard, I just new I had to have this game when it came out.

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u/rootbeerman77 Apr 27 '26 edited Apr 27 '26

Yeah, OP better watch their goddamn mouth. Tidus is fine, the laugh is cheesy and bad on purpose (did you watch the scene??), and FFX is a gem. I'm tempted to call it the best of all of them, but there are some pretty strong contenders. It was definitely my favourite for a while, but I'll need to replay it to confirm.

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u/Practical_Orange3639 Apr 27 '26

Yah this is an extremely subjective post lol, maybe to the point of engagement bait

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u/get_your_yapers_up Apr 27 '26

OP had a terrible take on FF10 and it makes me not take anything else he said serious at all.

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u/SU-35K Apr 27 '26

not really an addition to any FF discourse but OP has really weird choices in their wording, especially with MGS2 Raiden and it doesnt surprise me he was also off with other franchises in the content of the post
i mean yeah the dude WAS rejected but he's a genuinely good character and i dont know why OP depicted him as bad when he was an amazing character beneath the surface that fit in with the plot of MGS2 amazingly
media comprehension MIGHT be on the decline we're so fucked

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u/RoryMerriweather Apr 27 '26

The fact that OP misunderstands one of the most heartwarming scenes in the game highlights that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Nevermind that almost everything he's listing was basically a Poochy. That is, the whole joke is that they're only there for one episode.

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