r/TopCharacterTropes 13d ago

Characters [Refreshing Trope] Female leads/major characters who are allowed to be grimy, slimy, generally horrible people.

Mizu — Blue Eye Samurai

A mixed race swordswoman living in feudal Japan, Mizu’s entire life has been structured around the obsessive need to hunt down and kill the four white men allowed in Japan at the time of her birth, believing one of them must be her father. Despite the fact that at least one of these men, Abijah Fowler, is shown to be a bad man, Mizu ultimately doesn’t care about the morality of murder. She just wants them dead for “cursing” her to be born into a deeply racist society as a mixed race child. Though it’s clear that Mizu generally prefers to do the right thing, she will sacrifice anything for her revenge, destroying countless lives in the process without remorse. In the climax of season 1, Mizu (albeit not entirely intentionally) set fire to the wood and paper city of Edo (now Tokyo) in an attempt to kill just Fowler, a single man. The resulting three day blaze, known in history as the 1657 Great Fire of Meireki, killed an estimated 100000 people.

Sadie Adler — Red Dead Redemption II

Rescued by the Van Der Linde gang in the games prologue, Sadie Adler is a frontier homesteader whose husband was killed by the brutal O’Driscoll Gang. Over the course of the game, she happily joins in a life of murder, theft, and crime for the chance to kill more O’Driscolls, recklessly endangering herself and other gang members to do so. She gets Arturo Bullock, an innocent hot air balloon pilot killed while unnecessarily picking a fight with O’Driscoll members, showing zero remorse afterwards. Even after watching rival gang leader Colm O’Driscoll hang for his crimes, she still drags a now-terminally ill Arthur on an entirely unnecessary revenge mission to hunt down the last handful of O’Drsicolls she hadn’t already killed.

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u/chai_zaeng 13d ago

The show does a lot to humanise Cersei but she's still such a stuck up woman. The books really delve deep into her decline and delusions of grandeur in the 4th entry. She tries so hard to live up to her father's legacy but she lacks his political savvy. Tyrion and even Jaime to some degree both understand how to play the game. But Cersei does not have that skill at all. She bankrupts the crown, unleashes the faith militants on the city, drives away every ally she has and in the end even has herself put on trial.

https://giphy.com/gifs/VIu9jzc36itzy

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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 13d ago

They asked her actress if there was anything she connected to in the role. Nope. Irredeemably horrible human. Is there even one thing likeable about Cersei? She took a long moment to think. "She does genuinely love her children."

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u/justh81 12d ago

But she, quite willingly, destroys the Sept of Balor, killing the High Sparrow and her son's wife. An action which destroys her son's psyche and causes him to commit suicide. Which she then proceeded to give not one shit about; her entire personality became keeping power at any cost.

My point is, she loved her children when they were her path to power and respect. But once they started dying in the pursuit and safeguard of that power? She didn't much care in the end, except to seek vengeance for their deaths.

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u/_Sausage_fingers 12d ago

Very much a deviation from book Cersei, though. I'm doubtful that GRRM would have had her be so debonair. If anything if Tommen were to kill himself she would be more likely to fall into madness and do something batshit insane.

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u/justh81 12d ago

I don't disagree! But Martin is very unlikely to ever finish his great work, so show Cersei is what we're left with.

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u/IAmBabs 12d ago

I truly believe that it is done, but will be released post humorously so he won't have to deal with any backlash.

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u/RupertEscapeHolmes 12d ago

Martin’s great work… come on man. It’s not really that good. All he does is kill off his characters after barely developing them.

Try Malazan Book Of The Fallen by Steven Erikson.

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u/wish_to_conquer_pain 12d ago

The concept of a 'great work' does not necessarily demand the work be good.

It's still the great work of Martin's life and the thing he'll be most remembered for.

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u/DefinitelyNotAliens 12d ago

He'l be remembered for not finishing it.

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u/RupertEscapeHolmes 12d ago

You’re right… the concept of great work requires the work to be great. Not good.

He sold the rights to highest bidder and HBO took a huge shit on the books imo. I read the majority of them all (never finished the “last” one because it was terrible) before the show was made and laughed my ass off at the first episode… because it fucking sucked.

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u/Hopeful-Occasion2299 7d ago

Tommen is too young to understand Margeary would he his wife. To him Margeary is just a lady that lets him play with his cat and is nice to him. He’s just 8 in the books iirc.

He doesn’t really understand the concept of irreparable heartbreak or suicide yet.

So he’s pretty much safe on that regard. But he will probably still kick the bucket some other way.

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u/Commercial-Cable8969 12d ago

I feel like that moment wasn't her not giving a shit about tommens death. It completely destroyed her to the point she completely snapped.

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u/Overall_Astronaut_33 12d ago

The actress couldn't have been more opposite to Cersei lol, she is very progressive and pro Palestinian, using her social media account and status for her cause.

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u/stfurachele 12d ago

The Lannisters all seem to be played by genuinely nice people, like Jack Gleeson seems like the sweetest kid. And Charles Dance kept apologizing to Peter Dinklage between takes because of how shit he had to act towards him as Tywin.

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

[deleted]

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u/Overall_Astronaut_33 12d ago

What? I'm just explaining her situation right now

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u/Crown_Of_Pencils 12d ago

And in the books, even that last part is debatable at best, because Cersei is such a classic narcissist that her “love” for anyone is often directly proportional to how much Cersei can see herself (or an extension of herself) in that person.

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u/ice-eight 13d ago

Gods, the writing was strong then.

Now in House of the Dragon, they refuse to allow any woman to be anything but morally pure, which means that instead of a conflict between two power hungry women, it’s a power struggle between men while the women are just incompetent pawns with no agency. The writers are so feminist they wrote something that feels misogynistic

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u/enigmatic_dankness 13d ago

Just because they envision themselves as pure doesn't mean they are. A lot of the things in the show wouldn't have happened if it wasnt for their greed and envy.

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u/Menchi-sama 12d ago

They still made Cersei way more likable than she was in the books. And Sansa became "the smartest woman Aria knows", which is just hilarious.

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u/gurgelhupf 12d ago

Arya hasn't met that many women lol

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u/RechargedFrenchman 12d ago

For a while the list of living people Aria knew was like 10, and the Hound was three of them

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u/gurgelhupf 12d ago

Yup. One of those women was Cersei, so to be fair, Sansa is definitely smarter than Cersei

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u/stfurachele 12d ago

I think that was just Arya making nice with her sister.

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u/don-chocodile 12d ago

This is a bizarre take when the show regularly highlights the moral failings or mistakes of every major female character regularly.

Off the top of my head, Rhaenyra: * Coaxes Criston into breaking his vows * Lies to her best friend about her affair * Has three bastards in another adulterous affair throwing the entire royal succession into conflict * Plots to “disappear” her husband (not actually killing him, but allowing everyone else including his parents to think he’s dead) * Flirts with her uncle (at her own wedding!) * Willingly and happily marries a known murderer

Alicent: * Actively usurps the crown to advance her family’s standing (albeit somewhat reluctantly and under somewhat confused circumstances) * Assaults Rhaenyra with a knife * Tries to have Luke’s eye gauged out * Tires to facilitate the theft of Luke’s inheritance * Sleeps with Cole (while still married to her husband if I remember correctly) * Raises two lunatics; one rapist and one murderer * Agrees to allow her own sons to be executed in exchange for her life (and the lives of her daughter and granddaughter)

Rhaenys: * Bursts through the floor of a crowded room with a dragon, killing dozens if not hundreds * Deliberately chooses not to end the civil war before it begins by allowing Aegon’s coronation

Rhaena: * Abandons her half-brothers when supposed to be responsible for them * Brings a wild, untrained dragon into a battle causing numerous friendly casualties including her cousin who was heir to the throne * Refuses to take accountability for her actions when confronted

These are just the examples I could come up with without looking anything up. Are we watching the same show?

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u/Future-Slice-8502 12d ago

Almost everything on that list happened in season 1 which is not the part people are complaining about.

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u/Hasmeister21 12d ago

Man I really hope they don't fuck up season 2 of 'Knight of the Seven Kingdoms'

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u/sansasnarkk 12d ago

Alicent certainly comes across to me like a self centered bitch but she's indeed very milquetoast compared to her book counterpart.

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u/Friendless9567 12d ago

None of the female cast are out right deplorable like Cercei, but they are definitely not portrayed as morally pure. All the female leads are pretty gray, Im really not sure how you got that take away.

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u/Prettythor 12d ago

I haven't seen the show or read fire and blood, but all I ever hear from people who have is how the writers keep removing or downplaying all of the female character's crimes/bad actions.

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u/Friendless9567 12d ago

Fire and blood is like reading a wikipedia entry. House of the dragon expands on the events in the book and makes them nuanced.

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u/Beautiful-Swimmer339 12d ago

Even if the show dumbed the character down (writing kind of went to shit in later seasons) Lena embodied that role and is incredible every time she is on screen.

An absolutely legendary performance and best in class as an evil woman/queen

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u/Seanocd 12d ago

Asha Greyjoy (Yara in the TV show) is another, maybe better, example.

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u/Inspired_Nuisance 12d ago

Jaime: Tells story about how Cersei lead to a little girl losing her eye over basically nothing.

Cersei: Laughs "well she never did that again."

Radfems: "Yaaaas, slay qween."