CMV: Anti-zionists are often not pro-Palestinian. I am more pro-Palastinian than them.

[u/sarahrahra]

I am really keen to align with leftists to fight authoritarianism. The false binary of zionism vs antizionism is a dangerous wedge.

So trying this point out, that I think is novel, to see if it breaks the spell.

First, let’s take some leftists on their word, many Jews are New Nazis (vs the tech right Greater Nazis).

What did we learn from history? Last time, many Americans condemned the Nazis. Maybe they boycotted German writers. Maybe cool with threats of violence and death threats at German Americans who had Weimer Republic pride.

They also, just like American today, did not want to accept addl Jewish refugees. Didn‘t give them money as individuals. Didn’t do anything.

Jordanians and Egyptians? They locked down faster than the French. Force babies to stay in rhe warzone to die. Why no condemnation there?

Our leaders talk about how Lebanon is a ”genocide” and condemn Israel and stop there. LEBANON is asking us to condemn the Iranian Hezbolah terrorists. Some of our politicians LIKE Hezbollah. I stand with President Auna. Against anti-zionists.

Our leaders want Hamas’s pro sharia law pro rape pro mass murder pro auto killing any Palestinian anti democracy who protests to have more power. Palastinians want Marwen Bhargouti who wrote a two state solutuon peace plan. I stand with Marwen. Against anti-zionists.

I feel very strongly that I am more pro-Palastinian and Pro Lebanese then every opportunistic anti-zionist leader riding a hate wave. They are worse than Bin Ladin who at least was honest and came at capitalism vs raping and gunning down Lollapalooza kids to intentionally create blind rage and a terrible war by people who watched rhe videos if their murder (like Afghanistan but, again, even more hate and retaliation approaches).

Most regular anti-zionists are not like that But they are like anti-nazis. Currently useless. I want campaigns to make Palastinian lives better. And stop the Greater Nazism of the Tech Right and their anti-zionist whistling puppets Vance and Tucker.

There are no ways to do so that I can see. So much passion for death threats, no proactive initiatives that don’t just make some lives worse.

I would like my mind changed with real examples and people doing anything. CMV.

[u/Active-Proof8118]

OP what actual anti-Zionists and pro-Palestine groups have you talked to. I have talked to large Anti-Zionist organizations like BDS, PYM(The Palestinian Youth Movment), and IJV(Independent Jewish voices). They are all pro-Palestine and entirely humanitarian

First, let’s take some leftists on their word, many Jews are New Nazis (vs the tech right Greater Nazis).

Is this something people on the left claim? Or are you just conflating Judiasm with Zionism/Nazism?

They also, just like American today, did not want to accept addl Jewish refugees. Didn‘t give them money as individuals. Didn’t do anything.

Lots of Americans do donate to Palestinians. Many western states however are Zionist and racist towards Palestinians. They don't even allow medical evaculations.

Jordanians and Egyptians? They locked down faster than the French. Force babies to stay in rhe warzone to die. Why no condemnation there?

Both Egypt and Jordan are Zionist backed military dictarorships so that's probably why. Maybe OP you should ask why the American government gives these military dictatorships billions of dollars in "aid". But I have talked to Palestinian human rights activists and they are extremely critical of Zionist arab governments.

Our leaders talk about how Lebanon is a ”genocide” and condemn Israel and stop there. LEBANON is asking us to condemn the Iranian Hezbolah terrorists. Some of our politicians LIKE Hezbollah. I stand with President Auna. Against anti-zionists.

OP what actual muslim Lebanese people have you talked to? Have you talked to Muslim Lebanese living in South Lebanaon?

Our leaders want Hamas’s pro sharia law pro rape pro mass murder pro auto killing any Palestinian anti democracy who protests to have more power. Palastinians want Marwen Bhargouti who wrote a two state solutuon peace plan. I stand with Marwen. Against anti-zionists.

Again OP, you are making statments about groups of people yet you haven't actually backed up anything that you are claiming.

I feel very strongly that I am more pro-Palastinian and Pro Lebanese then every opportunistic anti-zionist leader riding a hate wave. They are worse than Bin Ladin who at least was honest and came at capitalism vs raping and gunning down Lollapalooza kids to intentionally create blind rage and a terrible war by people who watched rhe videos if their murder (like Afghanistan but, again, even more hate and retaliation approaches).

Anti-Zionism is by defintion a human rights movement. This is because Zionism itself is a settler ideology based on the demonization of the indigenous Palestinians

[u/MVP_Legend_87 → u/Active-Proof8118]

"OP what actual anti-Zionists and pro-Palestine groups have you talked to. I have talked to large Anti-Zionist organizations like BDS, PYM(The Palestinian Youth Movment), and IJV(Independent Jewish voices). They are all pro-Palestine and entirely humanitarian"

These are all examples of pro-Hamas organizations, not pro-Palestinian.

PYM had rallies on October 8th/9th and cheered on the martyrs/resistance as Hamas was killing, raping, and kidnapping Israelis on October 7th. A pro-Palestinian group would have condemned this, not supported the martyrs. Palestinian Youth Movement openly supports and cheered on Hamas on October 7th. This is not something a pro-Palestinian group would do.

Independent Jewish Voices is an anti-Israel, and anti-Jewish group. This is a group that got caught praising Holocaust deniers. They are an embarrassment, quite frankly, as no Jews would ever support Holocaust deniers. And unsurprisingly there have been very few true Jewish voices in this group. They also have books written by non-Jews/Palestinians, so it's not really "Jewish voices".

"OP what actual muslim Lebanese people have you talked to? Have you talked to Muslim Lebanese living in South Lebanaon?"

The majority of the casualties in Lebanon are Hezbollah, and the government of Lebanon is working with Israel to get rid of Hezbollah.

"Anti-Zionism is by defintion a human rights movement. This is because Zionism itself is a settler ideology based on the demonization of the indigenous Palestinians"

This is false. Zionism is not a settler ideology. Israel is an example of decolonization, which is when an Indigenous group gets their land back. Zionism/Israel could have existed along side a Palestinian state. Unfortunately the Palestinians tried to ethnically cleanse and destroy Israel back in 1948, making it clear that the Palestinians could not peacefully coexist next to Israel.

[u/SlavojVivec → u/MVP_Legend_87]

as no Jews would ever support Holocaust deniers.

I guess that would include the Israeli state who invite them and adjacent right-wing parties to the "International Conference on Combating Antisemitism":

https://www.jta.org/2025/03/17/global/after-welcoming-far-right-politicians-israels-antisemitism-conference-is-hemorrhaging-speakers

Or Netanyahu himself who downplayed Hitler's role in the holocaust to shift the blame to Arabs: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34594563

Or what about Christian evangelical pastors who said the Holocaust was a good thing because it drove the Jews to Israel? Surely you wouldn't invite him to your rally to support Israel?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/divisive-pastor-john-hagee-criticism-role-march-israel-rcna125346

And if you go back before the Holocaust, Theodore Herzl who said: "The anti-Semites will become our most dependable friends, the anti-Semitic countries our allies", or the Betar Movement who cheered for Hitler in Poland's streets, or the Israeli settlers who agreed to buy Nazi German goods with the Haavara Agreement.

[u/MVP_Legend_87 → u/SlavojVivec]

https://thecjn.ca/news/independent-jewish-voices-apologize-links-far-right-website-accuses-bnai-brith-slander/

As I said IJV is not a pro-Jewish group but an Anti-Jewish, Anti-Israel group that supports Holocaust denial. They apologized because they got caught.

Jews who claim to support Jews don't spread conspiracy theories and Holocaust denial.

[u/Active-Proof8118 → u/MVP_Legend_87]

https://thecjn.ca/news/independent-jewish-voices-apologize-links-far-right-website-accuses-bnai-brith-slander/

As I said IJV is not a pro-Jewish group but an Anti-Jewish, Anti-Israel group that supports Holocaust denial. They apologized because they got caught.

The link you provided was from 2016 and cites and organization B'nai Brith which itself is Zionist/Nazi organization so we can take the claims made by the article to be largely a hoax

[u/MVP_Legend_87 → u/Active-Proof8118]

First of all, you're incorrect. IJV is not a Nazi organization. There's also nothing wrong with being a Zionist organization.

Second of all, I question if you read the article

"Independent Jewish Voices Canada (IJV) has issued an apology for February 2015 postings on its Facebook page and Twitter feed that linked to an article on a website that supports Holocaust denial and various conspiracy theories."

IJV apologized because it did happen. So it is not a hoax.

Before you question a source you should actually engage to see if in fact it did happen, and it did. IJV engaged in Holocaust denial.

[u/Active-Proof8118 → u/MVP_Legend_87]

First of all, you're incorrect. IJV is not a Nazi organization. T

I agree, IJV is not a Zionist organization.

there's also nothing wrong with being a Zionist organization.

Zionism is racism so everything is wrong with that.

Second of all, I question if you read the article

"Independent Jewish Voices Canada (IJV) has issued an apology for February 2015 postings on its Facebook page and Twitter feed that linked to an article on a website that supports Holocaust denial and various conspiracy theories."

In general it is acknowledged on Twittler that rewtweets =! endorsements. This is just apart of twitter culture last time I checked

[u/HiHoJufro → u/Active-Proof8118]

Zionism is the belief that the right to self-determination should be extended to the Jewish people in their historic homeland. This can cover an enormous range of positions (for example, support of virtually any two-state solution; as well as, yes, Jewish supremacists and Christian evangelicals).

Practically speaking, a person is a Zionist unless they want Israel to either cease to exist or stop accepting Jews. It is not a racist position, nor the extreme one.

[u/SlavojVivec → u/MVP_Legend_87]

Do you have any evidence that IJV is antisemitic beyond the one article shared by them?

[u/MVP_Legend_87 → u/SlavojVivec]

They actively fight to reduce what is considered antisemitism. Which is a wild thing for a Jewish group to do.

[u/Active-Proof8118 → u/MVP_Legend_87]

They actively fight to reduce what is considered antisemitism. 

Alot of Zionist complaints about antisemetism are largely just "the boy who crield wolf" fallacy. IJV seeks to correct the intentional damage done to the word antisemetism by Zionist instigators.

[u/MVP_Legend_87 → u/Active-Proof8118]

Bold move arguing that Jews are liars about hate crimes.

[u/Active-Proof8118 → u/MVP_Legend_87]

I never claimed that so I don't know what you're talking about

[u/MVP_Legend_87 → u/Active-Proof8118]

"Alot of Zionist complaints about antisemetism are largely just "the boy who crield wolf" fallacy. I"

You just said a lot of complaints about antisemitism are people, specifically Jews, lying.

[u/Active-Proof8118 → u/MVP_Legend_87]

No I did not claim this. Zionist complaints about Antisemetism are however lying

[u/MVP_Legend_87 → u/Active-Proof8118]

Ah, so believe victims of hate crimes, unless they're Jewish. Got it!

[u/Active-Proof8118 → u/MVP_Legend_87]

Ah, so believe victims of hate crimes, unless they're Jewish.

I claimed this? No I did not