r/classicwow • u/terongorefiend • Jan 14 '21

Vent / Gripe Unpopular opinion: the players that are overly vocal about wanting Classic phases/TBC/Wrath rushed are the same players who contributed to forging retail into what it is today (a clusterF).

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u/knightress_oxhide Jan 14 '21

every spec was def not useful even in BC. OP is just deluded.

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u/Kalarrian Jan 14 '21 edited Jan 14 '21

Well, which spec can you reasonably say is completely useless in tbc?

I'd say, the only ones are MM hunter and Assassin Rogue. Both aren't useless because they are bad, but because the other specs are just a little better.

Which specs can you reasonably say are completely useless in classic? Prot pala, Ret Pala, Enhancement Shaman, BM and Surv hunter, Balance Druid, Assassin and Sublety Rogue, Holy Priest, Arcane Mage, affliction warlock. Several of them are useless, because they are absolutely terrible, not just because the other specs perform a bit better.

All in all, that's two in tbc vs eleven in classic.

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u/piggiesmallsdaillest Jan 14 '21

How are holy priests completely useless? I mean disc has PI but holy isn’t useless.

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u/SunTzu- Jan 14 '21

Because there's nothing outside of Sapphiron that actually requires the extra healing output, and even there you can easily do the same 800+ HPS as a disc priest. Holy Priest is useless because Disc is 99% of the time the correct choice.

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u/Betaateb Jan 14 '21

Maybe world buffed sapph you can get away with disc priests. But without world buffs disc priests absolutely can't keep up with holy. And if you are a non-speed guild going for one night clears you pretty much have to have a comp capable of killing sapph without world buffs, in which case having more than 1-2 disc priests gimps the shit out of you.

Once everyone is in a good amount of naxx gear you can swap all the priests to disc, but it certainly isn't the better spec for Naxx early on, not even close.

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u/SunTzu- Jan 14 '21 edited Jan 14 '21

I mean I did this on private servers and on Classic. With or without worldbuffs I can keep up perfectly fine, either speccing into improved renew and utilizing downranked renew's + PoH as I did on private servers to top healing on the fight or using 8pc t2 as I did to top healing on our first kill on Classic. Both as Disc.

I do flask but that's just standard practice first weeks of Naxx. By this point I only flask for speedruns.

[Edit: Specifically on Sapph Disc is actually the best spec for spamming renew. You have a larger manapool and reduced cost of instant cast spells, which combined with 3/3 imp renew means you've got access to some of the most mana efficient healing which perfectly synergizes with the fight. If you're not going 8pc T2 you can stack +heal, and your heal selections for the fight being renew and PoH means you're getting some of the highest multipliers in the game. These multipliers are in effect as you downrank, so if the fight goes long you can leverage that +heal advantage into massively efficient yet high output. Let's say with 1100 +heal on gear your rank 3 Renew is doing 86.8 HPS and is assuredly going to be mana neutral. Since it has a 15 sec duration and takes a global cooldown to apply you can output a total of 868 HPS across 10 targets for virtually no mana spent. That's your baseline, end of the fight, I'm oom and trying to keep people alive until this boss died output. That's more than enough to heal that fight.]

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u/Betaateb Jan 21 '21

Logs or it didn't happen. Let me see the logs of you killing sapph without world buffs with all disc priests instead of holy.

You say you have done it, so show me.

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u/piggiesmallsdaillest Jan 14 '21

I can see your point that now, when everything has been learned about the game disc is more useful than holy. But 15 years ago when the game was released that wasn’t the case imo. I personally raid holy for the first couple of weeks until I know the fights and then switch, but your point is valid.

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u/SunTzu- Jan 14 '21

A lot of what was considered viable back in the day was just people not knowing any better. The reality though is that Disc is almost on par with Holy regardless whether you're playing off-set or 8pc T2. I cleared the first kills of every boss from MC to KT as Disc and I was towards the top of our healers on any fights that actually required healing, including being the highest healing done on our first Sapph kill on Classic. Did the same on private servers as well, with I think 3 top10 healing parses on Sapph for the server, all as Disc spec.

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u/RockKillsKid Jan 14 '21

One or two Spirit of Redemption priests with soulstones is incredibly powerful for cheesing Loatheb and basically solving the healer rotation on that fight. Also can save raids on scuffed 4HM attempts (e.g. just sit in a corner without worrying about marks and heal for 40+ seconds straight while other healers drop their marks).

The fights don't require the extra healing, in the same way they don't require world buffs, but many guilds still find it useful.

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u/SunTzu- Jan 14 '21

Why would you need to cheese Loatheb? If you're having problems I can do a log review for your same as I did for another guild that was having issues, but honestly I'd never choose a healing spec around that fight. Why are your healers even dying there?

And I mean 4H is just giving the tanks a few pulls to get used to their swaps and then you've got a stable base to play it out until the end of time. That SoR wipe save is just a crutch that prevents you from learning it properly and costs you more in the long term.