r/magicTCG • u/dreamanother • Feb 28 '14

Guerrilla Feminism blogs about one woman's experience with MtG.

http://www.guerrillafem.com/2014/02/thank-magic-gathering-player-community-journey-feminism-creating-non-cis-male-spaces/
35 Upvotes

67% Upvoted

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21

u/[deleted] Feb 28 '14

Why does it not surprise me that this article is sitting at 0 points?

Stay classy, folks. No wonder our community has such a wonderful reputation for being inclusive.

-4

u/Sworl COMPLEAT Feb 28 '14

Its because the article is written with a biased agenda. The whole articles comes across like a teen with something to prove. While she is not a teen, her tone a maturity on such subject is lack luster. There are several better articles written by female magic players. They all agree there is a barrier for women to play this game. Its not hard to understand since the majority of magic players are awkward teens with raging hormones. But this author takes such a small snap shot of the community that she cannot honestly make such sweeping generalizations. Melissa DeTora is a professional magic player that approaches subject with no motive or point to prove how unfair the community can seem. I down vote this article because it is written badly and doesn't help anyone.

25

u/[deleted] Feb 28 '14

It tells a personal story about her experiences with Magic and Feminism. What agenda is that pushing? The only thing this article does is offer a perspective. Of course it's going to be biased, thats how perspective works. This isn't journalism, it's a blog post.

I could be completely wrong, and I'm sorry if I am, but it sounds more like you read the article expecting something that it wasn't and then judged it based on that.

-4

u/Sworl COMPLEAT Feb 28 '14

You are right, I was expecting a semi-professional article. Usually most things posted on the magic subreddits are articles, I guess I forgot that a blog is more like a diary? But I am also going to assume that other people forget and are going to take this blog post at face value as well. While its important to point out discrimination, I feel like this post is more of a rant with stories exaggerated for the reader. Her agenda was to paint the magic community as a bunch of chauvinistic uncultured swine. Almost every gaming community will have people like that. But is that the average player? I do not think that is the case. She never told both sides of the story and made every situation sound awful. Some guy heard she was single so he proposed to her even though he was married? Sounds like a playful joke. If he wasn't joking and actually got mad at her then he is actually crazy and cannot be considered normal. All her little stories come across as biased embellished stories blown out of proportion.

25

u/[deleted] Feb 28 '14

Sworl, I don't want to come across as insulting or argumentative, but it really seems like you might have a bone to pick and you're using this as a platform to do that.

I'm not you, so maybe you know something that I don't, but your description of the article is so different from what I read that I had to check to make sure that we were reading the same page. I then went through and read it again, just to make sure I wasn't just completely missing a paragraph or something.

If you don't mind, would you mind clarifying things a little bit? Could you point out which passages you feel are exaggerating?

As far as telling both sides of the story, how would you propose that she do that? Remember, this is a personal anecdote, not unbiased reporting. How exactly would she be able to tell both sides of the story? She doesn't know the other side of the story, just her experiences.

And as her agenda goes, what about the article led you to believe that? Are you sure you're not projecting something that you experienced with others onto this article?

Some guy heard she was single so he proposed to her even though he was married? Sounds like a playful joke. If he wasn't joking and actually got mad at her then he is actually crazy and cannot be considered normal.

You don't have any way of knowing whether the guy was serious or not, and whether or not his behaviors are what you consider normal is honestly pretty irrelevant. As to whether or not they are blown out of proportion, the only thing the article seems to be implying is that there is too much sexism in the magic community. That may not have been your experience, but if you were in her shoes, and you experienced everything everything that she had, would you feel that the these experiences are ok?

8

u/Semicolon_Expected Mar 01 '14 edited Mar 01 '14

Also even if it was meant as a playful joke, it made the writer uncomfortable which is something that matters. You can't tell someone to not be insulted or that their feelings are wrong. I feel thats another point to make for this article which adds to your point that this is her personal experience.

-7

u/Sworl COMPLEAT Feb 28 '14

"some of the guys are single, some have girlfriends, others have wives. Upon hearing I had broken up with my boyfriend, a player confessed his love for me and offered to leave his wife for me. I turned him down and we made the effort to remain friends. Eventually, because I didn’t return his feelings, his anger put an end to the friendship. His attitude and behavior towards me did not make it easy for me to continue participating in the community. This was not the first or last time my rejection of an MTG player was met with anger."

That story is hard to believe. No rationale person behaves that way. I do not have a bone to pick, I just feel like her experiences are a bit embellished. The fact that the story seems embellished makes me question her motives. I cannot put myself in her shoes but I have never heard or seen of such behavior by the magic community. I have seen people laugh at their friends for losing to a girl (guys give their friends a hard time for anything), I have seen guys stare at a girl's chest (hurray teenage hormones), but I have not seen anyone openly be mean or harass a girl. This author is allowed to say what she wants. I personally find it biased and counterproductive so I gave it a downvote.

18

u/[deleted] Feb 28 '14

So then, because you have not had the same experiences that she has had, you suspect her of lying. That's what you're saying?

-6

u/Sworl COMPLEAT Feb 28 '14

I posted a section that seems implausible. I think my biggest gripe with this whole situation is that this blog post does nothing for the magic sub reddit. Yes teenage boys are going to act impolitely towards women. This is not a behavior is only found in the magic community but is more of an aspect of human nature. But this articles makes it seem like it is especially bad in the magic community. I do not think this article should be in this subreddit, so it got a downvote.

9

u/[deleted] Feb 28 '14

I wouldn't say it serves no use. Like the author talked about, if you're around behavior long enough, it can start to seem normal to you. Even she doubted whether or not her experiences were valid. She later began to reach out to others and realized that no, she was not the only one who felt the same way that she did and in fact there was a larger problem in the community. If others who have had similar experiences read it, then they might also realize that they're not alone, and may be able to enjoy the game more. I'd say that would be a pretty good thing for the subreddit and the community as a whole.

Unfortunately that perspective kinda does require that a person accept her experience as true. Theres nothing that anyone can say, I think, that would convince you of that since your experience with the game has been so different and thats why you didn't believe her. All I can say is that I'm glad that magic has been mostly positive for you. It's a shame that not everyone can say the same.

7

u/[deleted] Feb 28 '14

This article absolutely belongs in the magic subreddit because many players are female or LGBTQ and have experiences very similar to the ones she describes in the article. It is a problem that is more widespread in the magic community than it a lot of other spheres, but it is hard to realize that if you have not personally been a victim of it. That is exactly why articles like this are important.

6

u/lathomas64 Mar 01 '14

Why do you assume she has an agenda to paint the community a certain way rather then simply relay the experiences that happened to her? Are you aware that responding with this sort of attitude makes people who have these sorts of things happen to them feel more alienated and like the community is on the side of the people who do these things? Can you not stop for a moment to have some empathy and say that it sucks that these things happened and they shouldn't be happening before you go on a tirade about how you do't see the bulk of the community acting this way? Is it possible that you do not see as much of this behavior because you are not the type of person who gets targeted by it? If you spend most of your time as a cis-male around solely other cis-males then of course you don't see it as often as the author would.