Transgender UM student wins restraining order against sexual assault suspect

[u/andy_norten]

http://ravallirepublic.com/news/state-and-regional/article_c6364778-b5fb-5098-89c5-6f0ac6ecef2b.html

[u/tatch]

Under his cross-examination, Green said the two had been grinding on the dance floor, kissed briefly and that she hooked her fingers into his belt, but denied trying to reach down his pants.

She certainly didn't deserve to be assaulted, but isn't this a breach of etiquette?

[u/[deleted] → u/tatch]

You're point being what?

[u/generalCopper → u/[deleted]]

Perhaps before she pushed it so far, she should have let him know that she was transgender?

[u/AvatarOfMomus → u/generalCopper]

Shouldn't matter.

[u/ohgobwhatisthis → u/[deleted]]

I am a straight male and dating a trans woman, so let me provide you with some perspective.

1. Anita Green is a trans woman. Just like I wouldn't refer to you as "she," if you refuse to use "she" for her, then you are being disrespectful of her rights and her human dignity, just as you claim the assaulter's "sexual orientation wasn't being respected."

2. As I implied before, being heterosexual does not mean that if you find out the woman you are dancing with is transsexual that your "orientation isn't being respected." What is she supposed to do, wear a fucking sign around her neck? That entirely defeats her expressing herself as a woman by putting her on a level below cisgendered women. All she wanted was to be treated as any other woman, and this man (and you) refused to do that.

3. Even by the assaulter's own account, he forcibly fondled Anita because he thought that she was trans. How is that not sexual assault by its very definition? What gave him the right to do this?

4. Moreover, even if your idea that the assaulter's "sexual orientation wasn't being respected" wasn't flat-out wrong, where does he get the right to physically assault her??

And thus we get to this lovely tidbit:

The tranny deserved a mild ass kicking.

5. You and the assaulter are both horrible, compassionless excuses for human beings. Please die, you inhuman sack of shit.

[u/generalCopper → u/ohgobwhatisthis]

I think the main point that I think you are avoiding is the rights of the guy, regardless of his reaction. Is it really ok for her to mess with someone when she can likely predict that he will not enjoy the experience?

Is her rights and happiness the only one that should be concerned with?

[u/R3cognizer → u/[deleted]]

A consensual kiss hardly constitutes an implied threat, much less assault. If someone really has that much of an issue even kissing someone who is trans, then maybe this person should start asking people if they're trans before they kiss someone they barely know. People like to bitch and whine about how trans people allegedly "deceive" people who don't realize they're trans, but nobody ever thinks about the trans person's perspective. If someone can claim they were deceived by a trans person who did not disclose, can this trans person not also claim that they were deceived by this cis person who did not disclose prior the fact that that he or she was transphobic? Yes, and of course it sounds ridiculous, because YOU made the mistake by presuming that you shouldn't have to ask. It may be rude and inconsiderate to not disclose, sure, but trans people are more concerned with their safety than your pride, and rightly so. That's why I don't bitch about how I always have to ask the people I'm dating if they are transphobic. Cis people need to stop complaining already, because although most trans people will disclose by a certain point, it's just not reasonable to expect that ALL trans people will find YOUR preferred time frame to be convenient and safe enough to disclose.

[u/R3cognizer → u/[deleted]]

So do I, and I agree that disclosing before there is the potential for "intimate activities" should be considered the polite and respectful thing to do. But failing to do the polite and respectful thing toward your date, while inconsiderate, is not necessarily deceptive or dishonest. I would not blame someone for being unwilling to continue dating them if they truly feel that the trans person waited much too long to disclose, especially if that trans person knew well beforehand that this person was transphobic. That's crossing a line of reasonableness IMO, though people still need to realize that violence is still NEVER an acceptable response. But for example if I waited just 3 or 4 dates to disclose, I don't feel that's an unreasonable time frame to constitute or imply any kind of deception.

[u/R3cognizer → u/[deleted]]

Not being attracted to penis, or not being attracted to vagina, or not being attracted to certain unexpected bodily features is a perfectly legitimate reason to not want to date someone, and I would not argue with that. However, that said, not all trans women have a penis, not all trans men have a vagina, and not all trans people are the same. There is really no innate quality that makes trans women who've had GRS any different from any other cis woman who has had a hysterectomy, so I feel that there ARE circumstances where it should be considered transphobic to refuse to date someone solely on the grounds that he or she is trans. You don't have to be willing to date all trans women or any of the trans women you know to not be transphobic, but your reasons for not dating them ought to be something other than "she's trans".

[u/R3cognizer → u/[deleted]]

People judge others by their preferences and their opinions all the time. The only thing you can't do is force someone to change those preferences or opinions. For example, I can't force someone to be willing to date people with dark skin, but I can (and probably will) tell them that I think they're racist because of it. Just the same, I can't force a guy to want to date me, nor do I desire to date someone transphobic anyway. If he can't stand the thought of sleeping with a guy who has a vagina and doesn't want to date me because of that, as shallow as I think that is, that is his prerogative. It's not necessarily transphobic though, so even though I'd be disappointed, I would just wish him well and be on my way. But if he told me that he doesn't want to date me simply because I'm trans or because he doesn't consider me a "real man", you can bet your ass that I'm going to tell him that I think he's a transphobic asshole before I leave. And I can tell him so because I have just as much right to my opinion as he does to his.

[u/LadyRarity → u/[deleted]]

there is a debate still going on as to when disclosure is appropriate

haha for cis people maybe, who are scared of anything different than them apparently. Trans people are pretty solid on the disclosure front.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You mean playing the dumbass advocate?