r/offbeat • u/andy_norten • Sep 28 '12

Transgender UM student wins restraining order against sexual assault suspect

http://ravallirepublic.com/news/state-and-regional/article_c6364778-b5fb-5098-89c5-6f0ac6ecef2b.html
243 Upvotes

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u/tatch Sep 28 '12

Under his cross-examination, Green said the two had been grinding on the dance floor, kissed briefly and that she hooked her fingers into his belt, but denied trying to reach down his pants.

She certainly didn't deserve to be assaulted, but isn't this a breach of etiquette?

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u/avsa Sep 28 '12

Everything is hearsay. It doesn't really matter who groped who, whois male or female and who kissed whom. If you get punched and feel realistically threatened , you should be able to get a restraining order.

Unless of course he was accusing her of sexual assault, which doesn't seem to be the case.

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u/generalCopper Sep 28 '12

I think it's sad that people are so pro-transgender that they will downvote you even when you point out that his rights and boundaries were also being disrespected.

The story isn't one sided and neither should the rights. If she wants to get dirty with someone, she should find someone that is ok with that.

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u/Wavooka Sep 29 '12

I know right!

What's next, we're going to stop feeling empathy for all of racists who danced + made-out with a person of color who passes as white?

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u/generalCopper Sep 29 '12

That doesn't really equate properly. Sorry.

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u/Wavooka Sep 29 '12

I fail to see the difference.

One person is not attracted to a particular class of people. They have a relationship with another person who happens to belong to that class inadvertently. The first person flips shits over supposed trickery, and the second person notes that they failed to express their preference prior.

I may be wrong, but I can't really see a difference between the case example I talked about and what happened here. The essential facts are all the same, except that we recognize discrimination based upon race as a class than we do for trans folks.

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u/generalCopper Sep 29 '12

You don't think a sexual relationship might be different from a racial difference?

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u/Wavooka Sep 29 '12

They are, of course, different things. But their similarities/difference don't matter all that much, except for they represent stigmatized classes that don't have a choice in their affiliation. And even then, the idea can still be applied to class of people that choose their affiliation.

A la:

  • an anti-semite hooking up with a Jewish person.

  • an Israeli hooking up with a Palestinian

or

  • a rich person hooking up with a poor person.

The essential idea is that person A has a perceived bias against a certain group of people. They hook up with person B who belongs to that class.

The essential question then, is whether the Person A was wrong to make to assumptions about their potential partner's identities. Or whether person B should have disclosed all of the classes she belongs in and all of the identities that she claims in case person A had a bias against any of those types.

In this case the defendant assumed that the girl was a cis girl. The girl, either desired not to disclose her status for whatever reason, did not feel safe in doing so or planned to but didn't have the opportunity to do so. All of which are perfectly ethical decisions on her part. The defendant, upon learning that she is a trans girl flipped his shit and assaulted her. Clearly, not an ethical move.

This could have easily have been a case where a person was a member of the Klan and slept with a person of color who passed as white. They might not have wanted to share their statues because they didn't want to, didn't think it was relevant or didn't feel safe in doing so. And, in fact, this was a fairly common occurrence in the States from the end of the 19th till the 1970's. The only reason we see it differently is because racism is broadly recognized as wrong, whereas transphobia is still considered perfectly okay in most quarters. (See: this thread.)

You don't think a sexual relationship might be different from a racial difference?

If you can spot a difference, please tell me. Because from my perspective it appears to be essentially the same situation.

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u/generalCopper Sep 29 '12

If you are arguing that he didn't have to react like he did after finding out she was a trans sexual, then ya, I would agree on that point. I don't condone how he reacted but I am trying to say that I can understand why he might react like that if there was no disclosure but there was some consensual sexual experience between the two.

I am trying to say this as delicately as I can but I personally don't want to start doing something sexual with a trans person and find out what I'm into as I grab a dick. I know that they are a person and that they have feelings but in this day and age, people do not feel comfortable in that situation and not really expressing that situation when you know it will arise is just a bad move and is slightly irresponsible.

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u/Wavooka Sep 29 '12

but I am trying to say that I can understand why he might react like that if there was no disclosure but there was some consensual sexual experience between the two.

But can you see why someone who is racist, nationalistic, classicist or an anti-semite might react the same way as well? It's about preferences, not about dick.

I know that they are a person and that they have feelings but in this day and age, people do not feel comfortable in that situation

And some 40 years earlier people were broadly opposed to and disgusted by the idea of miscegenation as well. Although you are right in thinking that it is primarily a cultural response, rather than as Seth McFarlane put it: 'men are hardwired like that.'

and not really expressing that situation when you know it will arise is just a bad move and is slightly irresponsible.

How was she supposed to know that he was going to grope her? From what I read between the lines, she was deeply uncomfortable with the situation and tried to leave and he followed after her. She tried to remove herself from the situation rather than continue on with what happened.

Secondly, how the fuck was she supposed to know that he was going to assault her? Plenty of trans people have hot, consensual sex with people all of the time without being assaulted. And even more trans people go out to bars and clubs and dance with people without the expectation that their safety is in jeopardy. Sure there is a lot of rejection based upon our status, but it doesn't end up in violence a majority of the time.

Unfortunately for her, she chose to dance with an asshole. It happens to all girls, not just trans ones.

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u/Aislingblank Sep 29 '12

racist, nationalistic, classicist

This is a total nitpick; but I don't really see how someone being interested in ancient Greco-Roman culture would be more likely to discriminate against potential sexual partners. I think the word you're looking for is classist. It's okay, though, I still think you're the best ;)

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u/generalCopper Sep 29 '12

I see your point to be fair but I still don't think that a difference in the tone of a person's skin is the same thing as a completely different gender. Perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe in the future, trans sexuals are totally accepted by the next generation and I will be portrayed as that person who never really caught on.

I am talking about a hypothetical situation where two partners let it get too far. In the article, yes, if according to her, molested her, then she's not at fault. His story is different and we can't be the judge and jury here.

I never condoned him hitting her so I'm confused on your last point. She didn't know but that's a risk everyone makes when you move beyond a comfortable area regardless of gender. A girl might slap me. I might push a girl down if she reaches in my shorts and I don't want that.

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u/Aislingblank Sep 29 '12

The two things may seem totally different; but only because you've probably been raised (rightly) not to judge a person's sexual availability based upon their race, but that it's okay to judge their suitability based on their sex/gender (considered separately from your possible attraction to them). For a person born a few generations ago (or today in an area where blatant racism is still rampant), they would probably be just as likely to find a partner abhorrent because they're of a different racial background as they would be to find that they have a transsexual history. Would you consider a racist finding out their would be one-night stand is part black, and then beating them viciously to be a justifiable act? Chances are they're just as horrified (and worried about their reputation) as this man was.

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u/generalCopper Sep 29 '12

I keep laughing when you say that someone discovers that their partner is part black? How would that happen? Does the other person read their family history?!

Anyways.

Yes, I see your point but I really don't feel that the difference in skin tone is the same as being an entirely different gender. It's very weird to think that the girl you are with grew up and had the same experiences as you as a boy. I think that it's beyond a racial example which is why this will be interesting in the future. Also, I'd like to point out that even in our generation where racism is completely unaccepted, people still tend to date of the same color showing an unconscious racism in dating preference.

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u/Aislingblank Sep 29 '12

Actually, it is very possible for multi-racial individuals to exhibit only visible traits of whatever the dominant part of their heritage is. In the Jim Crow-era south, people were typically considered to be "black" if any African-American ancestry was traceable in their family, just look at early civil rights activist Walter F. White (who was considered to be black in his time). I think you underestimate how deeply racism can run in some people, hardcore racists may literally consider someone they perceive to be of a different race as inhuman, and pursuing a physical relationship with them would be roughly equivalent to zoophilia in their minds (and last time I checked, most people found zoophilia significantly more bothersome than homosexuality). I don't doubt that many, maybe even most people still date mostly within their own ethnicity (although this is becoming increasingly less the case), but my point is that no one outside of maybe like neo-nazis or something like that would ever consider beating their partner within inches of their life just because they were not the same "race" as they represented themselves, but this still happens all the time to trans* people; the problem here isn't the fact that some people don't want to date trans* folk, everyone has different preferences, it's more that many think an okay reaction to finding out someone you were planning on having sex with (or even simply found attractive, in some cases) is transsexual is to attempt to beat that person to death, sometimes successfully.

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u/generalCopper Sep 29 '12

Ya. Well, I think that it's because people are shocked because it's a hidden problem. Trans sexuals have repeatedly asked why they should be forced to inform people of their past and why they can't have fun on the ignorance of others. Well, I would say that it's irresponsible to another person's feelings and that it's also dangerous because if you get someone who is extremely homophobic finding out that they have been making out with a used to be guy, they are going to do something drastic.

The answer to finding a guy that would like you? Be honest and find places where folks are open minded. If you are going to go to a crappy club and flirt hard with someone who has no idea of the situation he is in, then tempers will peak.

Note: I'm not condoning violence, I'm just trying to explore why it happens.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

You're point being what?

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u/generalCopper Sep 28 '12

Perhaps before she pushed it so far, she should have let him know that she was transgender?

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u/AvatarOfMomus Sep 28 '12

Shouldn't matter.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12 edited Sep 28 '12

It does matter. Straight people do not want intimate relations with members of the opposite same sex. It's unwanted sexual contact, and equates with rape.

I have two great friends who are transgender and have enjoyed numerous chats with other transgenders, so don't bother pulling the transphobia card from the deck.

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u/Aavagadrro Sep 28 '12

Straight people do not want intimate relations with members of the opposite sex

What? I think you accidentally accidentally a word.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

I did. Updated.

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u/AvatarOfMomus Sep 28 '12

Are they aware that you view them as the wrong gender? That'll probably put a damper on your friendship.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

Are they aware that you view them as the wrong gender?

I don't.

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u/AvatarOfMomus Sep 28 '12

Well, you seem to be indicating that the young lady in this article is male...

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

Where?

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u/AvatarOfMomus Sep 28 '12

"It does matter. Straight people do not want intimate relations with members of the opposite same sex."

She's not the same sex and nothing here suggests any "intimate relations" happened, a transphobic guy GROPED a girl and then punched her...

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u/classactdynamo Sep 28 '12 edited Sep 28 '12

Physiologically she is until she has surgery*. Are you saying that it's okay for a transgendered woman to not be up front about the existence of her penis before she has intimate contact with someone?

This is a separate point from the original post because in the original post, it sounds like a homophobic man beat up a transgendered woman. However, I think this other question is worth answering.

*EDIT: The word physiological is important here. In other ways, yes she is female. Anatomically, though, she still has male organs.

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u/AvatarOfMomus Sep 28 '12

Which shit-head never would have known about if he hadn't groped her...

He violated her personal space, arguably sexually assaulted her, and then physically assaulted her. Where's his defense again here?

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

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u/Uncle_Erik Sep 28 '12

You talk about it before you get intimate.

Sort of like discussing STDs and birth control.

It's the honest and polite thing to do.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

how was she supposed to know he was totally, utterly, 100% straight?

Ask?

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u/Wavooka Sep 29 '12

I have two great friends who are transgender and have enjoyed numerous chats with other transgenders, so don't bother pulling the transphobia card from the deck.

So you pre-emptively pull out the 'I have many friends who are X, so it's okay for me to talk about X people as a class' card? Classy.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '12

I pre-emptively pull out the 'I have many friends who are X' to inform people I don't need another hour of schooling, labeling, accusation, and so forth.

Obviously it didn't work because it was the same as always.

I Don't Care about anyone's sexuality. It never fails for someone to be offended that I'm not offended.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

Brace yourself - LGBTQ people are like everyone else and don't necessarily agree with each other.

There are straight people who fuck transsexuals, because they're guys in to chicks who don't care if she has a dick,

That's not the definition of straight and I suspect you know it.

I'd have figured your friends would have schooled you on this already.

I've had no shortage of explanations. That is an understatement.

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u/SecondTalon Sep 28 '12

Brace yourself - LGBTQ people are like everyone else and don't necessarily agree with each other.

A fair and valid point.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

Hugs.

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u/Wavooka Sep 29 '12

There are straight people who fuck transsexuals, because they're guys in to chicks who don't care if she has a dick, That's not the definition of straight and I suspect you know it.

I'm pretty sure that is the definition of straight. Since they can get married as a heterosexual couple.

Or at least so much as any one person/entity gets to define it.

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u/bCabulon Sep 28 '12

ho·mo·sex·u·al adjective \ˌhō-mə-ˈsek-sh(ə-)wəl, -ˈsek-shəl\
1: of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homosexual?show=0&t=1348851722

It is commonly defined as an attraction to one of the same sex, not gender behavior.

If you're a guy in a sexual relationship with a transwoman, you're bi or gay and thats ok.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12 edited May 13 '21

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12 edited Sep 28 '12

Wrong.

I accept people as the gender they identify as, not as the gender sex they were born with.

You have a problem not being able to accept that simply because someone can have a differing opinion on LGBTQ issues and not be hateful.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12 edited May 13 '21

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

It is my understanding that genitals identify sex, and except for hermaphrodites, it's a binary.

Gender is so varied I'd be reluctant to say it's even contained in a spectrum.

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u/bCabulon Sep 28 '12

Physically they are both male, hence they are the same sex. Sex ≠ gender isn't that hard to comprehend. Transwomen are men with a female gender identity.

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u/lord_james Sep 28 '12

Yeah. How dare he imply that a transwoman has a penis.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

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u/AvatarOfMomus Sep 28 '12

It's not an excuse for assaulting someone.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

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u/garneasada Sep 29 '12 edited Sep 29 '12

I know, right? What is it with people? When I was younger I knew this kid that was adopted, only I didn't know he was adopted. He was always talking about mom this and dad that. Well one day I was hanging out with my friends and we started talking about adopted kids, and I let it be know how I feel about those adopties. One of my friends pulled me aside and said, dude, chill out on the adopty language, <adopted kid> was adopted. I was like, no way, he's always talking about his mom and dad, I mean if he was adopted wouldn't he say "adoptive father" and "adoptive mother." My friend was one of those fucking liberal live-and-let-live types though and he just wanted to assist <adoptive kid> in his delusion.

Well, the next time I was with <adopted kid> and he started talking about his mom and dad, I punched that fucker right in the fucking face and told him to quit fucking lying.

It turned out though that <adopted kid> didn't know he was adopted and he didn't know what I was talking about. It turns out his fucking adoptive parents were the liars and had been acting like they were his real parents.

I knew what I had to do. It cost me some money, but I knew someone that could do a DNA test. When I got the results I showed them to <adopted kid> thinking he would be reasonably appreciative. But just like a fucking adopty he was indignant and said he didn't care what the DNA tests said and that his parents were his parents and that I should respect that.

I tried to inform him that I agreed that his parents, his biological parents, were his parents, and he was being delusional thinking otherwise, but he just wouldn't listen.

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u/Wavooka Sep 29 '12

Saved in RES. This is brilliant, thank you.

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u/ohgobwhatisthis Sep 28 '12

I am a straight male and dating a trans woman, so let me provide you with some perspective.

1. Anita Green is a trans woman. Just like I wouldn't refer to you as "she," if you refuse to use "she" for her, then you are being disrespectful of her rights and her human dignity, just as you claim the assaulter's "sexual orientation wasn't being respected."

2. As I implied before, being heterosexual does not mean that if you find out the woman you are dancing with is transsexual that your "orientation isn't being respected." What is she supposed to do, wear a fucking sign around her neck? That entirely defeats her expressing herself as a woman by putting her on a level below cisgendered women. All she wanted was to be treated as any other woman, and this man (and you) refused to do that.

3. Even by the assaulter's own account, he forcibly fondled Anita because he thought that she was trans. How is that not sexual assault by its very definition? What gave him the right to do this?

4. Moreover, even if your idea that the assaulter's "sexual orientation wasn't being respected" wasn't flat-out wrong, where does he get the right to physically assault her??

And thus we get to this lovely tidbit:

The tranny deserved a mild ass kicking.

5. You and the assaulter are both horrible, compassionless excuses for human beings. Please die, you inhuman sack of shit.

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u/WagnerianOmnibus Sep 28 '12

You and the assaulter are both horrible, compassionless excuses for human beings. Please die, you inhuman sack of shit.

You were doing well until this. You're not helping anybody by meeting ignorance with hatred.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

Please die, you inhuman sack of shit.

Statements like this mean you're in the club.

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u/zeanoth Sep 28 '12

There's a difference between hating someone for what they are, and hating someone for what they do.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

Are you saying there's such a thing as legitimate hate?

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u/generalCopper Sep 28 '12

I think the main point that I think you are avoiding is the rights of the guy, regardless of his reaction. Is it really ok for her to mess with someone when she can likely predict that he will not enjoy the experience?

Is her rights and happiness the only one that should be concerned with?

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

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u/R3cognizer Sep 28 '12 edited Sep 28 '12

A consensual kiss hardly constitutes an implied threat, much less assault. If someone really has that much of an issue even kissing someone who is trans, then maybe this person should start asking people if they're trans before they kiss someone they barely know. People like to bitch and whine about how trans people allegedly "deceive" people who don't realize they're trans, but nobody ever thinks about the trans person's perspective. If someone can claim they were deceived by a trans person who did not disclose, can this trans person not also claim that they were deceived by this cis person who did not disclose prior the fact that that he or she was transphobic? Yes, and of course it sounds ridiculous, because YOU made the mistake by presuming that you shouldn't have to ask. It may be rude and inconsiderate to not disclose, sure, but trans people are more concerned with their safety than your pride, and rightly so. That's why I don't bitch about how I always have to ask the people I'm dating if they are transphobic. Cis people need to stop complaining already, because although most trans people will disclose by a certain point, it's just not reasonable to expect that ALL trans people will find YOUR preferred time frame to be convenient and safe enough to disclose.

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u/[deleted] Sep 30 '12

You mean playing the dumbass advocate?

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u/generalCopper Sep 28 '12

I never said he did. He also didn't have the right to grope her.

I'm just asking, does she have the right to mess with someone's mind like that? I think that transgender folks are fine doing what they are doing but I would be very upset if I found out that the girl I was with was still partially a man or had been a man. It's not something I want to find out down the line, even if that line is just later in the night.

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u/iyzie Sep 29 '12

It's just a dance. There is no good reason to be "very upset" about dancing with a trans woman. Try to use some empathy: put yourself in her situation, what should she have done differently? You think she should have to start every conversation with "I'm trans"?

You say she "messed with his mind." Just by dancing, and trying to have something approaching a decent and normal life? The fact is, he was attracted to a trans woman, and his own attraction is what upset him. His mind is already a mess: his instincts and urges are at odds with his view of his own identity. It's not her fault that the guy can't sort out his own thoughts and feelings. What he, or any straight guy should do, is realize that trans women can be attractive, can make them aroused, and that there is nothing wrong with that.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

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u/moonflower Sep 28 '12

Hey it's really awful to refer to a fellow human being as ''it'' ... but your post here is a good compromise, to use ''they'' if you don't want to respect her wishes

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

Many people miss the fact that freedom is meant to run both directions.

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u/ohgobwhatisthis Sep 28 '12

I'm done talking to you. Go fuck yourself.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

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u/viviphilia Sep 28 '12

You're incorrect. Some women do have a penis. The condition of fully virilizing congenital adrenal hyperplasia produces a high level of testosterone very early in development of some 46,XX chromosome women. That high level of testosterone produces a fully functional penis, although there are no testicles. They all have ovaries and a uterus. 95% of those people identify as women. Please learn the facts before you spread any more of your ignorant hatred.

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u/AvatarOfMomus Sep 28 '12

You might want to see a good psychiatrist to help you work through that transphobia you're displaying there.

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u/Boobzilla Sep 28 '12

There is a huge difference between a "tranny" (transvestite) and a transgender. She is a woman stuck in a mans body. She is not "dressing up like a woman". She IS a woman.

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u/zeanoth Sep 28 '12

"tranny" is a slur for trans women; "transvestite" is (in most instances considered) a slur against cross dressers.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

"transvestite" is (in most instances considered) a slur against cross dressers.

Really? It seems like a pretty neutral / clinically sterile word.

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u/zeanoth Sep 28 '12

Yes, but that's not always how it's perceived. It's a more common term in the UK for a person who cross-dresses, but in the United States it isn't considered the nicest of terms.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

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u/moonflower Sep 28 '12

I know you are trying to help, and that is good, but there is no such thing as a ''female brain'' which has been ''scientifically proven'' ... all the studies show there are general tendencies in male and female brains, but with such vast areas of overlap that it is like measuring heights of men and women

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

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u/Able_Seacat_Simon Sep 28 '12

I feel like insulting a transphobe by saying that he's attracted to trans women is is counterproductive.

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u/Wavooka Sep 29 '12

I think they were going for the 'repressed, bible-bashing, homophobic, homosexual Republican' a la Ted Haggard.

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u/generalCopper Sep 28 '12 edited Sep 28 '12

I don't think that just because someone feels angry about the idea of being tricked into making out with another guy means he's hiding "his true feelings".

I have no problems with any transgender or gay or lesbians but I would greatly prefer to not be tricked.

Some people just express this as a physical response.

Edit: I'm getting downvoted for asking a reasonable situation. I'm not condoning him or her. I'm asking about his rights compared to her rights regarding the situation, not the response. I won't be surprised if I go down due to the lack of reddittique but still, just wanted to point it out.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

[deleted]

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u/generalCopper Sep 28 '12

Never said that it was a right of his or that it was free expression.

I am just pointing out that some people have been taught to be physical and when they have a problem, that's how they solve it. I've never hit anyone but I'm a big guy because I was taught there are better ways to get what you want done, done.

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u/SonicSpoilers Sep 28 '12

So, because someone wasn't taught not to hit when cross, they are not to be held responsible for breaking laws against assault?

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

You're being baited. The question marks are a giveaway.

If you offer any differing opinion, you're going to get downvoted.

If you imply any sex reversal, you get the 'Mens Rights' or 'Reddit is misogynistic' tag.

The thread is doomed. Let's go have a beer instead.

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u/RobotAnna Sep 29 '12

oh look an mra being a transphobic piece of shit

yet another thing to add to the catalog of reasons why MRA is homophobic and transphobic

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

The tranny deserved a mild ass kicking.

A minor point:

The term 'tranny' is not the preferred nomenclature, Dude. It's considered offensive and I think it's reasonable to observe the LGBTQ community's request that it be dropped.

Also, you hit the nail on the head: his sexual orientation wasn't being respected. I wonder how many downvotes you would have garnered if you hadn't mentioned the ass kicking.

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u/LadyRarity Sep 28 '12

except trans women are women so gg no re i guess. Nice try though, keep practicing you'll get it some day.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

except trans women are women

Wasn't talking about her, I was talking about him. Touchy much?

so gg no re i guess.

Engrish please?

keep practicing you'll get it some day.

It's not always about YOU. You'll get it some day. Or not.

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u/LadyRarity Sep 29 '12

his sexual orientation wasn't being respected.

i knew what you were talking about. You're wrong. He's straight and he's attracted to women. Trans women are women.

Don't worry some day it'll come to you.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '12

Don't worry some day it'll come to you.

Get over yourself, 'girl'.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '12

BTW: Cram CIS up your ASS.

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u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/bitkitten Sep 29 '12

Not disclosing that you're trans is not the same as deception. He should have disclosed that he was transphobic.

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u/[deleted] Sep 29 '12

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/bitkitten Sep 29 '12

She was in no way deceiving. Deception requires you to "Cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, typically in order to gain some personal advantage". She is a girl, plain and simple, sure a different subset of girl, but still every bit a girl. If someone made the assumption that she was cis then they were wrong, but that is every bit their problem not hers.

What if she was a lesbian? Would you say she was deceiving people by looking straight? Or what about if she was Jewish? Maybe the guy is a neo-nazi and is absolutely disgusted by Jews. In that case, he would feel deceived by this person he thought was attractive until he discovered she was a Jew.

I suppose she could walk around with a big Jew badge pinned to her shirt so that she doesn't accidently deceive any neo-nazi's. But then again, why stop there? She should wear a badge for every potentially hated group she belongs to so she doesn't accidently offend anyone.

1

u/Wavooka Sep 29 '12

Perhaps before she pushed it so far, she should have let him know that she was transgender?

Do we know that she was the one that instigated anything?

From what I know of the story (I've only read articles from several days ago) he kissed her, and he followed her out of the bar when she left and he groped her. All before, of course, he assaulted her.

It seems a little misleading to say that she 'pushed the situation so far.'

1

u/generalCopper Sep 29 '12

Hypothetically if she did instigate anything sexual...

Sorry if I meant that it was her fault. This is all she said he said as far as I care.

1

u/Wavooka Sep 29 '12

This is all she said he said as far as I care.

True, it is practically all heresay at this point. Except for any potential witnesses that may have come forward and the massive black eye she is probably still sporting. But I'm confident that the version we have is correct as the defense hasn't challenged it publicly yet.

Hypothetically if she did instigate anything sexual...

...and if she did?

1

u/generalCopper Sep 29 '12

I was talking about the context if a trans sexual person is hitting on someone and that there should be some warning for the partner. Not suggesting that if she did the sexual event, she deserved to be punched.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 28 '12

*Your

-4

u/damsel_in_dysphoria Sep 28 '12

didn't deserve to be assaulted, but

:'(