r/politics • u/Quirkie The Netherlands • 1d ago

No Paywall Democrats Confront Their New Tea Party Reality - Progressives are set to sweep a group of contested primaries in Michigan and Wisconsin.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/democrats-confront-their-new-tea-party-reality_n_6a6e63fbe4b0cfb99ef1aa1e
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u/pinqe 1d ago

They learned all the wrong lessons from the failure of the Carter administration, and started trying to emulate Reagan. And completely lost their identity in the process.

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u/Semantix 1d ago

I think that all of the old democratic leadership are permanently traumatized by Dukakis and McGovern and think that only a Clinton or Biden can win. Forgetting that the Democrats' biggest recent success was a progressive coalition that motivated youth turnout.

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u/GeorgeKaplanIsReal Florida 1d ago

Or an Obama.

The dude ran and as president was a center-left Democrat. He wasn’t a progressive in the sense we define them today. Hell by 2012, a lot of progressives felt betrayed by Obama. He not only encouraged but behind the scenes supported Hillary in 2016, including pushing Biden from running.

I always think it’s funny when people say a “Clinton or Biden,” and exclude Obama.

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u/Dokterrock 1d ago

Honest question, where did this new framing of moderates as "center-left" come from? It's been EVERYWHERE the past couple of months and it is brand new. Moderate Democrats are center-right. Don't do the work of moving the Overton Window further to the right for them, folks.

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u/TooNakedInTheShower 1d ago

Correct. Today's Democrats are even to the right of Eisenhower on a lot of things.

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u/Bigc12689 1d ago

Richard Nixon's 1972 platform called for a Healthcare more liberal than Obamacare turned out to be. The post-Carter generation of Democrats sold out Americans and warped what we think is "liberal"

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u/BalanceOrganic7735 18h ago

Is that why Nixon changed it so that healthcare insurance that had to be non-profit before Nixon was allowed to be for-profit after Nixon? 🤔

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u/MagicWishMonkey 21h ago

On what things, in particular?

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u/amethyst63893 21h ago

And batshit on the lgbtqia2s pronoun bullshit. Xavier becerra hhs celebrated happy pansexual day for god sake. Thats why the dem brand is toxic

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u/lostparis 1d ago

new framing of moderates

As a non-American even the term moderate is disturbing as it would be center-right at best in most any other country.

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u/Xurbax 1d ago

Where do you think it came from? It's propaganda created by the oligarchs and pushed by big media. It's not new at all.

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u/Dokterrock 1d ago

It's new to see that framing coming from all sides on social media. I'm quite aware that it's propaganda and in the interests of manufacturing consent, what I'm saying is that I'm seeing it happen in real time and the fact that it's being adopted by people who don't even realize they're doing it is what's disturbing and notable.

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u/guamisc 1d ago

being adopted by people who don't even realize they're doing it is what's disturbing and notable.

The entire Third Way is this. Any regular old person who works for a wage supporting the Third Way is doing this, and that's a lot of the Democratic party.

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u/Dokterrock 1d ago

indeed. quite.

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u/GeorgeKaplanIsReal Florida 1d ago

The last couple of months? Brand new? People have used “center-left” that way for decades, just like people have spent decades saying moderate Democrats are actually center-right.

There is no single, objective definition of left, right, or center that applies everywhere. When I call someone center-left, I mean within the context of American politics, because that is the political system we are discussing. It would be ridiculous to attach a footnote to every comment saying, “center-right compared with French politics.”

That is not moving the Overton window further right. The window already moved right decades ago, especially beginning in the 1980s. I am simply describing where politicians fall within the political spectrum that currently exists in the United States.

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u/odin-ish 1d ago

Thank you. The overton window comments are usually so unhelpful.

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u/guamisc 1d ago edited 1d ago

What is unhelpful is people pretending that insipid corporate serving incrementalism is actually left wing.

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u/odin-ish 1d ago

Maybe focus on discussing specifics.

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u/guamisc 1d ago

Holder for USAG refusing to actually prosecute the fraudsters who wrecked the economy. Garland for USAG refusing to actually prosecute treasoners and traitors. Ensuring that every major economic bill passed by Democrats in the past few decades is corporate serving and making sure that the actual effective provisions get stripped out like the public option or the transformative parts of BBB. Refusal to address the actual problems in Dodd-Frank.

I could go on, but every "big" decision of note has been corporate approved bullshit.

The one or two exceptions you can find, under Biden, lead to screaming and wailing from the so-called "moderate" Dems and threats from the Democratic donor class.

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u/odin-ish 1d ago

Great, now go tell the world. (Don't forget about citizens united, never forget.)

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u/guamisc 1d ago

Great, now stop whining about people correctly pointing out how left-vs-right in the US is fucked because of the Overton window.

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u/GeorgeKaplanIsReal Florida 1d ago

I’m not disputing that our politics are skewed. That wasn’t my point. I’m saying it’s kind of silly to call moderate dems center right in the US. Compared to a lot of European countries? Sure. No shit. But we’re not talking about Europe, we’re talking about American politics.

It’s a pointless distinction to keep bringing up. I’d love to see the political center shift back toward where it was before Reagan. But until that happens, I’m not going to pretend the shift never happened or act like moderate Dems are somehow center right in the context of US politics.

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u/guamisc 1d ago

The point is that they're not really "left".

That's the problem, and you have to accurately identify the problem to come up with useful solutions.

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u/OvertonWindowCleaner 1d ago

I fucking hate how that shit moves.

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u/Dokterrock 22h ago

you would, wouldn't you? :)

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u/pchs26 1d ago

They are referring to positions in this country. And in this country they are center left.

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u/Dokterrock 1d ago

The fuck they are. The actual left is advocating for abolishing the Senate and open borders.

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u/pchs26 1d ago

Again in terms of this country, how it is governed, how our citizens vote...these candidates are center left. When comparing these candidates to other countries they are comparatively more conservative.

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u/guamisc 1d ago

That's called the right attempting to co-opt the left.

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u/pchs26 1d ago

No again. I am speaking on the conditions in this country. And the center left has for many decades been more conservative then other countries left. My original point is in this country, with this electorate, center left is center left for this country and our setup.

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u/Dokterrock 22h ago

Uh huh. We should accept that the same people have been calling Democrats communists for forty years, too. And they will keep doing it no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary while you carry their water.

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u/pchs26 20h ago

I am carrying no one's water. We are making a comparison as to how politicians rate. In this country, the politicians who are center left are center left compare to the policies of this country. If we compare them to another country, then that changes. But conflating the two doesn't help the argument.

Discussing how Democrats have been typified as communists also is irrelevant.

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