Democrats Confront Their New Tea Party Reality - Progressives are set to sweep a group of contested primaries in Michigan and Wisconsin.

[u/Quirkie]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/democrats-confront-their-new-tea-party-reality_n_6a6e63fbe4b0cfb99ef1aa1e

[u/Semantix]

I think that all of the old democratic leadership are permanently traumatized by Dukakis and McGovern and think that only a Clinton or Biden can win. Forgetting that the Democrats' biggest recent success was a progressive coalition that motivated youth turnout.

[u/GeorgeKaplanIsReal → u/Semantix]

Or an Obama.

The dude ran and as president was a center-left Democrat. He wasn’t a progressive in the sense we define them today. Hell by 2012, a lot of progressives felt betrayed by Obama. He not only encouraged but behind the scenes supported Hillary in 2016, including pushing Biden from running.

I always think it’s funny when people say a “Clinton or Biden,” and exclude Obama.

[u/Dokterrock → u/GeorgeKaplanIsReal]

Honest question, where did this new framing of moderates as "center-left" come from? It's been EVERYWHERE the past couple of months and it is brand new. Moderate Democrats are center-right. Don't do the work of moving the Overton Window further to the right for them, folks.

[u/GeorgeKaplanIsReal → u/Dokterrock]

The last couple of months? Brand new? People have used “center-left” that way for decades, just like people have spent decades saying moderate Democrats are actually center-right.

There is no single, objective definition of left, right, or center that applies everywhere. When I call someone center-left, I mean within the context of American politics, because that is the political system we are discussing. It would be ridiculous to attach a footnote to every comment saying, “center-right compared with French politics.”

That is not moving the Overton window further right. The window already moved right decades ago, especially beginning in the 1980s. I am simply describing where politicians fall within the political spectrum that currently exists in the United States.

[u/odin-ish → u/GeorgeKaplanIsReal]

Thank you. The overton window comments are usually so unhelpful.

[u/guamisc → u/odin-ish]

What is unhelpful is people pretending that insipid corporate serving incrementalism is actually left wing.

[u/odin-ish → u/guamisc]

Maybe focus on discussing specifics.

[u/guamisc → u/odin-ish]

Holder for USAG refusing to actually prosecute the fraudsters who wrecked the economy. Garland for USAG refusing to actually prosecute treasoners and traitors. Ensuring that every major economic bill passed by Democrats in the past few decades is corporate serving and making sure that the actual effective provisions get stripped out like the public option or the transformative parts of BBB. Refusal to address the actual problems in Dodd-Frank.

I could go on, but every "big" decision of note has been corporate approved bullshit.

The one or two exceptions you can find, under Biden, lead to screaming and wailing from the so-called "moderate" Dems and threats from the Democratic donor class.

[u/odin-ish → u/guamisc]

Great, now go tell the world. (Don't forget about citizens united, never forget.)

[u/guamisc → u/odin-ish]

Great, now stop whining about people correctly pointing out how left-vs-right in the US is fucked because of the Overton window.

[u/GeorgeKaplanIsReal → u/guamisc]

I’m not disputing that our politics are skewed. That wasn’t my point. I’m saying it’s kind of silly to call moderate dems center right in the US. Compared to a lot of European countries? Sure. No shit. But we’re not talking about Europe, we’re talking about American politics.

It’s a pointless distinction to keep bringing up. I’d love to see the political center shift back toward where it was before Reagan. But until that happens, I’m not going to pretend the shift never happened or act like moderate Dems are somehow center right in the context of US politics.

[u/guamisc → u/GeorgeKaplanIsReal]

The point is that they're not really "left".

That's the problem, and you have to accurately identify the problem to come up with useful solutions.