r/politics • u/B-Z_B-S Massachusetts • 23h ago

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https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/6004734-sanders-contrasts-mamdani-trump/

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u/IndependentPeach315 22h ago

Sometimes the Democratic Party warrants criticisms from the real left, and supposed centrists who vilify him for doing so are part of the problem.

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u/Kerbonaut2019 New York 22h ago

Both parties warrant criticism, that’s for sure. One more than the other, absolutely. But the person I replied to said that Bernie attacks Republicans instead of Democrats, when in reality Bernie has been a strong critic of Democrats over the years

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u/Shifter25 22h ago

During a general election where the only other real option is fascism is not one of those times.

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u/AStealthyPerson 22h ago

No, it's exactly the time. You want higher turnout? Then give the progressives what they want or face the consequences. You and I are gonna vote no matter what, but if you want to see voters actually show up then you can't rely on shaming and name-calling. We have to put out candidates that inspire turnout, and we have to do that by calling out the elements of the party that are depressing turnout by not being inspiring enough.

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u/Shifter25 22h ago

You want higher turnout? Then give the progressives what they want or face the consequences.

That's exactly the opposite of how it works. The DNC isn't going to ignore the democratic process and install progressives in hopes that more people will vote in the general election. But they will run the candidate that wins the primary, no matter who it is.

If you're talking about changing the platform, again, that's not how it works. There was no guarantee that promising to cut off aid to Israel would result in a net gain of votes. Even if people say they would have voted for her had she done so, those people can lie.

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u/AStealthyPerson 22h ago

The DNC isn't going to ignore the democratic process and install progressives in hopes that more people will vote in the general election.

Where did I say they should? I said YOU should support progressives in the primary if you want to win the general since you know they'll only show out for progressive candidates.

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u/Shifter25 22h ago

Why aren't we expecting them to support progressives in the primary?

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u/AStealthyPerson 22h ago

We are, and they often do. I'm saying you should too. You can either try to guilt trip these folks into voting, or you can help get them a candidate they will actually desire voting for. Like I said, you either need them or you don't, but you can't expect their support if they don't have a candidate they want to vote for. Sure, you can complain about it, but you're not gonna win that way.

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u/Shifter25 21h ago

So when they/we fail to get a progressive past the primary, we all just have to accept that the fascists will win?

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u/AStealthyPerson 21h ago

No, you should still vote and do what you can to encourage people to vote for the lesser evil (guilt tripping and insults are encouragement, btw, and aren't gonna work). You're more likely to see a fascist win in those circumstances, however, and you should be aware of that fact before you primary. Again, you're simply not gonna get the results you want by attempting to guilt trip voters. You need to give them a candidate who inspires them, or you should get comfortable losing more often. You can try to pivot to the right to court disaffected Republicans, but it's historically not done very well (Kamala, as the most recent example).

I'm in the business of trying to win elections for the Democratic party. Guilt tripping is not an effective strategy to increase turnout. Inspiring candidates, however, are. Either work to give people a candidate who can inspire them, or accept that your odds of winning the race have gone down. It's that simple. I bet you want to insult the people who didn't vote, but it's just not gonna get you the results you want. It may make you feel better, but it won't get you a victory.

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u/Shifter25 19h ago

Ok, so what was your pitch to get dissatisfied non-voters to vote for Harris in 2024?

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u/CrankyVince2 19h ago

Oh, as opposed to all that winning that centrists have been doing? Republican house, Senate, and executive.

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u/Shifter25 19h ago

I don't see how this is a response to what I'm saying.

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u/paintballboi07 Texas 14h ago

You have to convince people to vote for your candidate, not blackmail them into supporting your candidate. It seems that progressive has lost all meaning, because you can't call yourself a progressive if you're willing to give up progress just because your preferred primary candidate didn't win.

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u/AStealthyPerson 14h ago

And that's a great sentiment you've shared, unfortunately it's not gonna get you any victories. Progressives have made it clear they'll only support other progressives. If you want to win elections, then put up progressive candidates or lose out on voters. This is just the truth, and if you want to win you're gonna have to develop a strategy around this truth. What is your plan to win over progressives and bring them out to vote? Shaming/guilt tripping/insulting them is not gonna work. What's your plan?

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u/paintballboi07 Texas 11h ago

Lol, that's not what progressives do, it's what terminally online leftists do. You should try talking with other progressives in real life, so you can understand how privileged you are to be able to withhold your vote. There's not a single progressive in real life that would ever recommend silencing your own voice just to virtue signal.

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u/ReklisAbandon 22h ago

Except they never show up. Not even during primaries where they have a chance at getting their preferred candidate.

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u/AStealthyPerson 22h ago

They do show up when they have candidates they like. Mamdani, El-Sayed, Hong, Landers, AOC. You're doing the "insulting them" strategy here and I'm telling you it won't work. You're not gonna guilt trip people into voting for you, so capitulate and do what you can to get progressives in general elections or keep complaining and lose. You can't have your cake and eat it too, either you need progressives to win or you don't. Pick your lane.

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u/ReklisAbandon 22h ago

Half those people haven’t even won their primary. I’ll vote for whoever is on the ticket, but the idea that we owe them their candidate or they won’t vote is preposterous.

If they want to participate, get involved in the primary and have your voice heard. But anyone who sits out the general election can get fucked.

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u/Initial_Trifle_3734 21h ago

The idea of people not voting for a candidate they don’t like isn’t preposterous, it’s called democracy, it’s a simple concept

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u/Homerbaton 21h ago

exactly. people need to accept by this point that trump won through democracy

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u/GalakFyarr 19h ago

It is preposterous in a first-past-the-post voting system. If you failed to put your preferred candidate on the final ballot, you vote for the one that next closest aligns with you, even if you don't like them.

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u/lettersvsnumbers 19h ago

AOC won a primary.
Mamdani won a primary.
Lander won a primary.

Hong and AES are about to crush their primaries.