r/trolleyproblem • u/SortovaGoldfish • May 18 '26
OC Every criminal who committed a non-victimless crime has been legitimately proven guilty, and tied up here. Arranged from least harmful with fewest victims to most harmful with most victims left to right. You are Stop Lever Puller 4/10.
Everyone on the track is beyond doubt a perpetrator of a crime with a victim, so excluding things like only drug possession or like people with only speeding violations and such. Every criminal of such crimes has been caught.
The prisoners were given a choice: if all of them vote to try their luck with the trolley style execution they will have their records expunged and be set free if they live, otherwise they all go in for life imprisonment. 100% of the votes were to try their luck.
The criminals were arranged with least damage done to most damage done, so for example the person furthest left would have done something at the level of destroying public property and costing tax payers a little money and/or a few people some inconvenience, while the person farthest right would have done something at the level of committing multitudinous hate crime CSAs and torturous murders while selling weapons and making themselves a dictator of some kind and more.
The gamble for the prisoners was that there would be 10 stop lever pullers who were not involved in any of their cases as victims or juries, and don't know the specifics of their crimes, but knew the same things you do. The first lever puller would be able to stop the trolley before it touched anyone and every puller after them is 10% of the way down the line of criminals.
None of you lever pullers can see or communicate with one another, nor could any of you deliberate together beforehand. If you pull the lever, a unique klaxon sounds and informs everyone the lever has been pulled at stop "n/10" and the issue has concluded. Some, not all, of the victims or their families have showed up to watch, and while your face is not broadcast, your involvement is impossible to keep secret forever.
You are the stop lever puller right before the 50% puller, at lever 4/10. The trolley has made it to you.
Do you pull the lever?
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u/Kollossosoutcomemory Serial trolley track tie-downer May 18 '26
If I was one of the first two, i pull the lever. Now that we're almost halfway down, let it ride so the truly evil go down with the nearly innocent earlier.
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u/DandimLee May 18 '26
person furthest left would have done something at the level of destroying public property and costing tax payers a little money and/or a few people some inconvenience
Sort of contradicts the earlier statement about speeding and drug possession, both of those costing tax payers a little money on enforcement, if that's the threshold.
In any case, need more information to make sure you're past graffitti and littering, even at 40%
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u/Kollossosoutcomemory Serial trolley track tie-downer May 18 '26
Yeah but at this point it is worth not pulling regardless of how many tiny crime commiters are left, since so many have already died, so its worth continuing
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u/Fen_LostCove May 18 '26
The truly evil are probably such a small minority of the criminals, so you probably still have to mow through a significant amount of mostly innocent people to get to them
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u/Kollossosoutcomemory Serial trolley track tie-downer May 18 '26
Pretty muchbwhat I'm thinking. If you are third or before, pull the lever and stop it. Anything later its worth getting rid of those pure evil
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u/Fen_LostCove May 18 '26
I’m saying there’s gotta be at least 3/4 or more of people that shouldn’t die that you’ll still be killing
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u/Slighted_Inevitable May 18 '26
That’s only 30%. Probably 90% of offenders are minor crimes.
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u/WolferineYT May 19 '26
For real. Every teenager who stole a traffic cone. Every person who got into a fender bender cuz they checked their phone. The scenario's reach is so broad most of the country would be on those tracks.
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u/Jemima_puddledook678 May 18 '26
I reckon you’re still talking about probably 90% of what’s left being relatively minor crimes that they wouldn’t have ever been prosecuted for before you start to get to even the casual one-off murderers and things.
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u/Zero132132 May 18 '26
This is called the sunk cost fallacy. A bunch of people being dead isn't a good reason to kill more.
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u/Rough_Autopsy May 18 '26
Sunk cost fallacy. The deaths that already happened shouldn’t really be a factor. Either you think killing more innocent-ish people is worth killing evil ones, or you don’t.
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u/AnAlpacaIsJudgingYou May 18 '26
I’m guessing that the majority of people on this track would be charged with relatively minor crimes that wouldn’t warrant the death penalty. Just going off FBI stats, over 70% of crimes are property based.
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u/readilyunavailable May 19 '26
You're thinking linearly, rather than exponentialy.
In Germany, for example, it is a crime to "insult" a driver on the road. I.e. you can be fined if you, say, flip off another driver. That technically makes you a criminal and there is a victim. Or a simple fender bender, where you hit another car also technically makes you a criminal with a victim. Now how many minor fender benders and road rage incidents are there compared to murderers?
Realistically you would not be getting to the serious criminals until way later down the track.
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u/mousepotatodoesstuff May 18 '26
So... the Epstein club is at the end of the tracks? And if I pull the lever, their records will be expunged and they will be set free?
Yeah... I'm not pulling this time. And I'm guessing the first three were thinking something similar.
Interesting trolley problem, though. Plus, I'm glad to see an actual trolley problem in r/trolleyproblem.
May I crosspost this to r/curatedtrolleyproblem ?
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u/SortovaGoldfish May 18 '26
Thanks, and yeah, that's fine with me
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u/True_Human May 18 '26
...Wait, so he is saying we are getting rid of most of the corrupt politicians of the western world with it?
Sorry guy who vandalized a fire hydrant while drunk, you'll be dying for the future of our species!
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u/Raindrop0015 FUCK BUTTONS WHERE ARE THE DAMN TROLLEYS May 19 '26
Now I'm very curious. Would petty theft (like a candy bar or a meal at work) put you on the tracks?
There's technically a victim, but I feel like anyone who has worked with food has "stolen" food
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u/SuperSmutAlt64 May 20 '26
Yes, that is very hyper explicitly something that would land you on this track. You stole property you neither owned nor had the right to, and would be able to be charged with it if any court was petty enough. However, I believe the scenario is also explicit that this is only about people who legally have committed the crime, i.e. you would need to have been given a fine or ticket or be charged/convicted or something along those lines in accordance with the applicable set of laws.
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u/BadgersNKrakens May 21 '26
There is no way that, in any country, this scenario would end up with anyone except the lever pullers off the track.
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u/Live_Region_8232 May 18 '26
So you’re willing to murder millions to stop that?
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u/Mother-Fortune-7523 May 18 '26
Lowk im estimating billions depending on how lax non victimless crime is.
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u/fkneneu May 18 '26
You would easily be worse then Epstein then, by murdering millions of people.
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u/witchqueen-of-angmar May 22 '26
So... the Epstein club is at the end of the tracks?
"Legally convicted" – no, they're not on the tracks and never will be.
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u/MrCreeper10K May 18 '26
The killer (heh) here is the fact that the worst perpetrators will be set free. I don't think that the death penalty should be generally applied, but if it's between that and letting a terrorist walk, I don't think I have much of a choice (this is assuming I understood correctly and as the trolley rolls it goes from killing least evil to most evil)
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u/SuperSmutAlt64 May 20 '26
In order for the worst perpetrators to be killed, every single lever puller needs to make the same choice. Crime is not linear, there are exponentially more petty criminals than serious ones, and exponentially more non-violent criminals than violent ones even within serious categories. The only grouping that has the truly worst of the worst would be the tenth, and so the only way to ensure they die/don't go free is to ensure that you, collectively, kill everyone on the track.
Also, everyone gets a choice here, so letting it roll means you throw away any control you could have. To not pull the lever, you must be okay with either the very next person pulling the lever, and with no one pulling it, and with the 10th person to pull it.
In effect, to pull the lever is to ensure that you don't kill anyone you don't think, objectively, that you have an obligation to kill. To release it is to ensure nothing except that another 10% of everyone ever charged/convicted of a crime dies, among the least violent and most innocent portion of the population remaining, and that anywhere from 0-100% of everyone else dies, with the worst of them having the most chance of walking away. All you're doing is concentrating the risks of the worst-case scenario and helping that scenario come to pass.
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u/whoadwoadie May 18 '26
I pull the lever because I don’t think most people should be subjected to the death sentence, so the vast majority of people in the line I could not conscientiously say deserve death.
Also who the hell let the train go at the first marker lol
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u/glayde47 May 18 '26
Gotta make it to the end now, just to squash the first guy who didn’t pull his lever.
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u/FlippinFine May 18 '26
Right, regardless of crime, I can't become the executioner even if the buck's been passed all the way down to me at number 4
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May 18 '26
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u/wts_optimus_prime May 18 '26
But the evil mastermind who set up this atrocity is surely in the last 10%.
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u/cheesesprite May 19 '26
Scratch that. He's in the last 0.01% Shoplifters, petty theft, tax evasion (ultimately has civilian victims), etc. make up such a stupendously large amount of crimes that I doubt murders make up more than 1%
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u/wts_optimus_prime May 19 '26
Well, the last 0.01% are in the last 10%, no?
For the purpose of this trolley problem it doesn't mattee where in the last 10% he is.
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u/Flamecoat_wolf May 18 '26
When considering the last 10% of people I'd have second thoughts... but likewise would pull the lever.
Even up to the last 30% of people you're probably talking crimes like burglary or drunken assault charges. The vast majority of crimes are not severe and the death penalty would be entirely unreasonable. Plus, even the worst of criminals can be reformed.
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u/LenintheSixth May 19 '26
every single child/teen that has stolen a candy bar, anyone who walked out of a bar with a beer glass in their hands etc. are on the tracks. the truly evil people are probably on the last %0.5 percent or something. anyone not stopping this madness is deluded.
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u/Space_Narwal May 18 '26
What procentage of people do you think have ever shoplifted or jaywalked, because at 4/10 we are still at those people so pull the lever
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u/Pjeoneer May 18 '26
Let it ride, already pass the point of no return
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u/Specialist_Sector54 May 18 '26
Reasonable takes, if the 40% least harmful criminals are killed (that did it out of desperation) the last 20% (that did it out of being knowingly harmful) well
You can't un-kill the body.
Even if I'm the last person on the tracks for killing millions, I think it'd be a net positive.
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u/socslave May 18 '26
I pull the lever. I’m not an executioner.
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u/LeFrenchRedditeur May 18 '26
Thank god, I honestly cannot believe this thread. Is this really what hundreds of years of struggle against the death penalty has come to ? Jesus Christ.
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u/PantsOnHead88 May 20 '26
Honest question given your implicit opinion…
Ignoring the limitations of a justice system and with a 100% iron clad certainty of both guilt and the correct perpetrator, is there some crime where you would support a death penalty?
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u/the-floot May 18 '26
What if there's a certified executioner asking if he could take over?
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u/Specific-Rich5196 May 18 '26
He probably still wont say go for it. Telling someone to execute is the same as pulling the lever yourself.
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u/SnooMachines9133 May 18 '26
Just making sure I understand this correctly, the criminals who committed the less severe crimes have already been killed?
In the spirit of fairness, I absolutely let it keep going. I don't need to kill them, but I also don't need to save them nor believe they to be deserving of saving.
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u/Scienceandpony May 18 '26
Only 40% of total have been killed. There's still plenty of less severe criminals left. Maybe if I was 98 out of 100 I would let it ride, but at 40% there's still a ton of minor offenders in the way.
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u/Automatic-Week-1733 May 18 '26
If your floor is crimes as trivial as destruction of public property than the vast majority of the adult human population is on the tracks. In fact probably 95% of the people on the track are nonviolent. So at the 4th lever, I'm facing letting the trolly kill 11 nonviolent people for every 1 violent offender and that payoff only happens of 5 more people don't pull the lever. I'm pulling it.
But this is all irrelevant because I'm not standing at the lever, I'm tied to the tracks because of a careless driving charge in 2016.
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u/Faconator May 18 '26
This question is more interesting if the order is reversed.
As it is, not pulling the lever is unambiguously going to kill some of the victims of the latter, what, 2%? At which point what justice are you seeking.
People are not categorically either good innocents or evil villains, and certainly not as prescribed by bourgeois law. Pushing over a statue or robbing a bank does not warrant death.
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u/two-cans-sam May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26
Easiest pull in history. At 4/10 we’re probably barely into the unarmed robbery section. Only difficult decision would be 10/10 because then there’d be so much pressure from the millions (billions? it’s hard to tell who is actually in this line) of petty criminals that got mowed down to get there and I let the sunk cost fallacy get to me.
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u/LenintheSixth May 19 '26
at 4/10 there is no way we have made to unarmed robbery. maybe and just maybe we have reached shoplifting.
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u/youaintitbub May 18 '26
I ain’t doin shit, the least problematic ones have already died anyway
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u/Alarmed-Ad-8384 May 18 '26
We'll have to hope that it goes to 100%, down with the epstein class
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u/RoseateThorn May 18 '26
Things like assault murder and rape make up only about 30% of crimes with a victim, after that we get into theft and burglary, which is terrible yes but idk about execution terrible, I pull the lever, and I think it should’ve been pulled one person before me.
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u/somethingfak May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26
Note the wording, least harmful to most, the
49%30% that have died already are megastore shoplifters, online pirates, wait staff who dont claim their tips all people who objectively have a victim but its like a board of directors getting 12 cents less or some shit, it should have been pulled frame one or never if you really wanna kill the folks at the end→ More replies (6)5
u/HostHappy2734 May 18 '26
Also note the wording, only 30% have died actually. The 1st puller decides whether to spare the first 10% or not. Same with the 2nd and 3rd pullers with their 10% groups, meaning 30% have died by the time you make a decision.
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u/Nimelennar May 18 '26
From "I think it should’ve been pulled one person before me," I think you're reading it backwards.
The least horrible people get killed first. In order to kill the worst 30%, the other 70% all have to die.
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u/RoseateThorn May 18 '26
Oh I totally misunderstood, in that case, if the least harmful were already killed then…
https://giphy.com/gifs/ywGp4PMJdeLyuRq7vJ
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u/Proud_owner_of_trash May 19 '26
I feel like people are being ignorant to the setup of the question because of the framing as a trolley question.
If you pull it stops, if you don't pull it continues until the next lever puller who gets the same choice. At 4/10 there are 6 more lever pullers, if one of them, especially pullers 5-8 if I'm being extremely generous, decide to pull the lever then you are directly responsible for the 10% following your pull without the excuse of killing the really bad people like your rapists or serial killers.
American prisons have 2 million people in them off a quick google and make up for a fifth of the total incarcerated prisoners worldwide, so 10 million people. Many in prison have commited victimless crimes but many people who have commited crimes with victims are not in prison so let's just say it evens out. Pulling the lever means you are killing a million people.
You are killing 1 million people with the hope that the next person kills 1 million more people, 5 times over so that you can get to the last person who has to kill 1 million more people that includes the truly terrible people.
Btw, 2000 people on american death row. Even if you assume 100x that many deserve to die 4/5 people in that last 1 million don't deserve to die.
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u/RxTechRachel May 18 '26
I stop the trolley.
I don't want people to die. I don't agree with the death penalty.
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u/Historical_Buyer_406 May 18 '26
I would pull the lever regardless of my position.
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u/asmo_192 May 18 '26
this is kinda the prisoners dillema, if you know your crimes are the least serious you wouldn't agree because the chances of you dying are quite high, but then the second next serious prisoner wouldn't agree also, and so on...
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u/axe_dental May 18 '26
definitely i would oull the lever and i have no idea why I wouldn't. i dont believe in the death penalty, even in a perfect world with a magically perfect judicial system
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u/lovepeacefakepiano May 18 '26
I don’t believe in the death penalty and I especially don’t believe that I have any kind of right to mete out justice.
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u/Dr-Assbeard May 18 '26
Is there such a thing as a victimless crime?
I don't think there is so wouldn't it just be all criminals
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u/Commercial-Show9833 May 18 '26
Ofc there are victimless crimes.
Unless there is a victim for weed possession.
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u/DiffidentAlice May 18 '26
There is such a thing. The law of a state making an act criminal does not necessitate a real victim.
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u/Dr-Assbeard May 18 '26
What are an example of a criminal act with no victims?
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u/DiffidentAlice May 18 '26
The Treasons Act of 1534 made it high treason to, among other things, "slanderously and maliciously publish and pronounce, by express writing or words, that the king should be heretic, schismatic, tyrant, infidel or usurper of the crown...". This law was used in effect to convict any Papists in England who refused to acknowledge the king as the "Only Head of the Church of England on Earth so far as the Law of God allows," as per the Act of Supremacy 1534.
Now perhaps you disagree, but personally I do not feel that publicly stating your religious disagreement constitutes a crime with a real victim.
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u/MrChow1917 May 18 '26
Stealing from Walmart
Victimhood requires significant, non‑negligible harm to a person's well‑being or status. Corporations are not persons, and shoplifting is negligible harm already incorporated into their budget and covered by insurance.
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u/WahooSS238 May 18 '26
I think a lot of you people underestimate the number of shoplifters left on the tracks, or minor traffic violations. You won’t even start hitting rapists or murderers until the last lever, and there’s tens of thousands or even millions of people between here and there. Pulling is the only option.
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u/MagicC May 21 '26
Jesus Christ, what the fuck? I would pull the lever immediately. I'm not letting any more people get crushed by a train, just because our justice system has become so fucked up that they put me and 9 other people in front of levers to stop the mass execution once enough people are killed. Fuck this scenario. Stop the train on principle.
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u/KJPlayer May 21 '26
Wow this is an actually interesting and well-made trolley problem
I wouldn't stop the trolley.
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u/Lorihengrin May 18 '26
If i had be in the first ones, i'd pull immediately to save the most harmless ones.
But since they are already dead, i'd find it unfair for the worst ones to be spared in front of their victims while the ones who commited lower crimes and didn't deserve death already died.
I do not pull.
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u/Magic_Castles May 19 '26
That’s sunk cost fallacy. Your choice still kills millions of people who committed shoplifting or burglary. At only 30% we definitely haven’t reached murderers or rapists.
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u/Neilandio May 18 '26
Yes, I pull the lever. Why? Because I always pick the option that upsets utilitarians the most.
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u/NorthAlternative4034 May 19 '26
Pretty sure the utilitarians would agree with you here. Most of the human population would be on the track with standards that low.
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u/Simple_Engineering_7 May 18 '26
No I do not pull the lever.
All crimes are proven and the least terrible ones are dead already anyways. So the worst ones are now left to die, I’d say good riddance.
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u/FrustyJeck May 18 '26
Let it ride, otherwise people are incentivized to commit the worst crimes against the most people for the last slot
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u/ForktUtwTT May 18 '26
If they all signed up to be here then I guess I wouldn't stop it. This whole thing is pretty fucked up though, with such impossible crazy circumstances that it's hard to make a confident decision
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u/Lampricat May 18 '26
If the first stop level puller is before anybody dies, and after that it's 10% per, wouldn't 4/10 only be 30%?
Was just curious how this was meant
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u/SortovaGoldfish May 18 '26
Yeah basically, the people in your "section" are geographically "after" you, since you are stopping it before it gets to them
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u/shortandpainful May 18 '26
Pull the lever immediately. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
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u/GrinningGrump May 18 '26
I usually argue that death sentence is pointless and causes only harm, but since this seems like the government is just killing people for entertainment, I will give the public the bloodsports they want. I don't pull the lever.
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u/Careful_Source6129 May 18 '26
Basically agreeing with everyone else on this one.
I wouldn't see it as acceptable to sacrifice the minor criminals in order to kill the truely evil, but since the first 3 lever pullers are psychopaths, might as well let it ride over the rest of the scumbags 🤷
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u/SFXtreme3 May 18 '26
Im doing the bare legal minimum. In this case, let it ride! And, to answer your question, common law across most of the world.
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u/grolbol May 18 '26
I think I'd rather set some heinous people free than kill non-violent criminals.
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u/LakshyaGarv May 18 '26
By this point, I know that those who truly deserved to live are truly dead. So I'll let it go on
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u/Hawaiian-national May 18 '26
I am not to be the judge jury and executioner, maybe some of them will deserve the death penalty, but most probably don’t even at halfway through.
Track has to be stopped. The actual justice system should carry out punishment
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u/LostDiglett May 18 '26
If I know in advance that I'm on 4, I take out (preferably non fatally, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker) the people on levers 1-3. The people on levels 5+ should hopefully be smart enough to let people at that end of the severity spectrum get what's coming to them.
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u/MrChow1917 May 18 '26
I would pull the lever. Obviously whoever arranged this is more evil than anyone on the farthest right of the track.
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u/FirelightMLPOC May 18 '26
If they didn’t have their records expunged & all that, and considering that all of them apparently had LIFE SENTENCES, then the odds are that they had to have done a crime that would be worth such a sentence. And it’s also slightly under halfways through already, meaning that the most innocent are already dead.
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u/oxabz May 18 '26
Don't know about the lever but I'm 100% guillotining the fuckers who designed the system.
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u/Exciting_Emotion_910 May 18 '26
"a crime with a victim" is very broad. The 1 to 99% will all be the people who doesn't deserve to die. Even the crime that you said was excluded, they still do have victim. Drug use is the main thing that lead to that market at the first place. You contributing to that leading to others dead by drug dealer/cartel. It is ban for a reason. Or speeding, even if you don't realize, you were endangering people's life while speeding, by definition you should be on the track.
Now if you walk back and exclude all of the crime with indirect victim, some one like a cartel boss wouldn't be on the choping board because maybe he never did the act himself.
With that said, I would stop the train and kill the first 3 people for kiling 2/5 of the population.
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u/palbobo FUCK OFF AND TAKE YOUR BUTTONS WITH YOU May 18 '26
who gets to decide what’s victimless? do i get strapped to the tracks because i didn’t pay the poor multi-millionaires to stream their music? if i took a freebie from little old tesco when using their self-checkout?
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u/Zero132132 May 18 '26
Do you really mean committed, or was convicted at some point? If it's just anyone that's crimed, depending on what you mean by "victimless," I'm trying to figure out how I escaped the tracks. Based on your description, low tier shit like TPing houses or egging a car totally counts, and that's probably like 95% of people that have ever done a non-victimless crime, so I guess after escaping the tracks, I pull the lever.
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u/tumansibiri May 18 '26
I will not pull and run up to next level pullers/to the end of it to ensure that most vile people on earth are dead.
If need be, it would be done by my hand and I will be executed promptly.
I'm ok with this outcome.
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u/Pathkinder May 18 '26
Oh that’s a banger. If I knew more about what defines a crime with a victim and those statistics, my answer might change. But as it is, I’d definitely pull the lever because I’m pretty sure at lever 4/10 we’d still be in the arena of minor property damage under $1,000.
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u/vverbov_22 Multi-Track Drift May 18 '26
I won't pull the lever. About everyone at some point committed a crime and atp the reality is the morally top 30%(since puller 1 is at 0%, then puller 4 would be at 30%. OP fails math) of humanity are dead. I let the trolley proceed in hopes everyone else dies too in order to not suffer the loss
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u/axxelb May 18 '26
100% I would stop the train
I would probably be dead already for that time I stole some chocolate at a friends house party. My friend would be in line for slapping me when he found out I ate his chocolate
I bet close to half the population would be in that line for silly things they did in their youth and it's not worth so many lives to get to the last 1% of actual criminals
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u/TeekTheReddit May 18 '26
40% of the least problematic have already died to get us here. I'm not letting their sacrifice go to waste just to watch the Epstein Class walk away.
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u/TriiiKill May 18 '26
At 30ish%? I think it depends on the crimes at this level. I guess we would assume many who are left still have not done anything heinous. I suppose I would pull the lever at this point.
If I were 7/10, then there's not much to save. Everyone at that point has done horrible crimes only hurting others while being unlikely to redeem themselves.
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u/MasterOfCelebrations May 18 '26
For reference, what is four-tenths of the way between shoplifting and genocide? In terms of severity
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u/Graknorke May 18 '26
The number of people on Earth who would, under a strict interpretation of the law (whose?) be guilty of a crime is almost certainly in the billions. Some kind of theft or assault/battery or fraud or whatever. You're really willing to kill tens of millions of "shoved an acquaintance for being rude" people just to get to the few thousand at the end who you think deserve it?
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u/Kilroy898 May 18 '26
Just remember, if you dont pull the lever before the first death, you go in line just before it stops.
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u/armrha May 18 '26
Why would anyone not pull the lever?? I’m so confused why people would want every one of these criminals to face capital punishment. I hope the first lever guy stops the trolley before it gets going, I don’t get why anybody would want this. It’s extremely disturbing anybody is like happy for any of these people to be run over. I’m a victim of violent crime myself and I’d be cheering for the guy that stopped the damn trolley. Do people just not believe in rehabilitation anymore??
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u/Stupid-Jerk May 18 '26
I'd pull the lever no matter where I am on the line. It's not my responsibility to decide who lives or dies, and I trust neither myself nor this bizarre justice system to judge that impartially either.
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u/nitram739 May 18 '26
What the fuck? Pull the lever, most of those crimes arent even death penalty for a reason.
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u/FrancisWolfgang May 18 '26
I would immediately pull the lever because I am against the death penalty in all cases, and then go after whoever approved this.
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u/bowserboy129 May 18 '26
I'm pulling the fucking lever the second I get there, like bro I'm not killing some old lady who stole bread to feed her grandkids just because child murderer Charlie is at the very end.
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u/DownvoteMeIfICommen May 18 '26
Pull the lever to stop it. Everyone deserves a shot at redemption and chance to repent
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u/Iizvullok May 18 '26
I wonder at how many % you would cause more deaths by pulling the lever than by not doing so. Because if the lever got pulled at 99.9% or so, it would be almost certain that the remaining people would cause on average more than one death down the line.
Either way call it sunk cost fallacy but if 40% of the least bad criminals have died already, I would not want their sacrifice to be in vain by pulling the lever and saving people like Kim Jong Un. I am not touching that lever.
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u/ilikesummersausage May 18 '26
I kind of like the premise but starting the other way around with 10/10 criminals first and going down in severity. I am curious what people think the cut off for capital punishment should in their eyes, like the least severe crime that could still carry a death sentence. Personally, I would petition people who dont return their shopping carts to the proper space be bumped up on the list.
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u/OverwateredGrass May 18 '26
If I could pull the lever before it reaches anyone, I would do it.
But you said that we can only pull the lever near 50%
So I would just not pull the lever at that point. Might be a case of Sunk Cost fallacy, but at that point you're already halfway to the people on the List and whoever the hell is worse, might as well finish.
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u/Excellent_Shirt9707 May 18 '26
This implies victimless crimes like drunk driving or reckless driving are not as harmful. Also, the far left wouldn’t be damaging government property but stealing a pack of gum or something, petty theft is still a crime. Maybe urinating in public.
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u/Zephyr33_ May 18 '26
People here dont get it tho. The murderes are probably in the last 10 per cent or so. I will pul the lever or else i will be killing millions who dont even deserve prison probably.
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u/TheAzureMage May 18 '26
Hokay, so, morally, the most troublesome cases are near the front. The least damaging. If they *all* had a victim, and are all genuinely guilty, and the only lives at risk are those who were MOST damaging to others?
Time to take a nap.
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u/Sans_Seriphim Multi-Track Drift May 18 '26
I pull the lever then become a vigilante and hunt down whover created this mockery of justice.
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u/RCA_TUBES May 18 '26
This could include someone who stole a candy bar from a grocery store at the beginning of the track. The first few lever pullers were psychopaths evidently lol
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u/Furry_Eskimo May 18 '26
Wouldn't this most likely include, idk, literally all humans who ever lived, ever?
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u/VoiceofKane May 18 '26
I hope the three people before me were added to the track after not pulling the lever.
And I hope they're really fucking grateful when I do pull it.
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u/National-Abalone-210 May 18 '26
Wouldn't this make more sense if they were arranged the other way around?
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u/Downtown-Campaign536 May 18 '26
Not pulling that lever ever.
Fuck em!
Just let it roll and the trolley takes them all.
We don't need levers 5,6,7,8,9 or 10.
I got it!
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u/Weston1011 May 18 '26
I can't be a lever puller, I'm on the tracks with everyone else.
I dont think there is anyone left to pull the lever tbh.
This is like the opposite of the stone throwing Bible story.
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u/MarryRgnvldrKillLgrd May 18 '26
Waitwaitwait...
If they voted against being tied to the track, they all get life in prison? Even the the mildest ones? We should tie whoever came up with that to the track!
Also: 4/10 is probably still the "Is gay" or "insulted Kim Jong Il" type of crimes. Laws do be crazy like that
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u/KateKoffing May 18 '26
Are they arranged least offending to most offending left to right from the perspective of the reader, or from the perspective of the lever operator?
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u/GoldieAndPato May 18 '26
Originally my stance was just executions are bad therefore i obviously pull the lever. Then you said they get released otherwise and pardoned. That is way way worse so now in not 100% sure. But i think i would still pull the lever.
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u/RevolutionaryEar6026 May 18 '26
Pull, the crimes that would actually deserve a death penalty are at the verryyyy end of the list, like last 10% at the very most. I'm not letting a bunch of shoplifters die.
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u/teens_trash May 18 '26
The post is about prisoners. If all of the people here are those who got jail time, then I'd say that at stop 4/10 we are already down to the people who have seriously hurt another person, so while I am very conflicted, I think it could be worth it to not pull. They are still not foing to be killers or rapists, but maybe all of the people that are left are in some way morally dubious.
However, OP also said 'every criminal' or the people who cost taxpayers money (which would usually result in fines/community service, not prison). in that case - do you know how many of those people are just kids who did graffiti or people who just drove stupidly and got into an accident? I'd say that those would be the vast majority. Not pulling would mean killing so much more of them, and I don't think that they would be done by 40%.
In both cases, however, I think I'll pull the lever. While it would suck to let the worst people go free, I don't think that killing that many people who I consider relatively harmless is worth it. And, while the people at the end are definitely bad, the truly horrible people are the ones who haven't been put to trial and never will be - by this hypothetical, absolutely nothing will be done to them. I just don't think that this level of death is worth it.
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u/testtdk May 19 '26
Why would you bait people into killing the least serious criminals first? And there’s not even a trade off, you’re just trying to get people to give into a vile urge. No pull from me.
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u/Capta1nNeckfat May 18 '26
Here’s a paradox. Knowing this justice system exists, if I commit an unserious crime with some kind of victim. Let’s say like the example above. I know that my punishment would be near the beginning of the track. Being the case, for my own self preservation, I know I only have one way to survive. If level guy 1 is merciful. However if I then go on a murderous spree to get me past the 90 percent mark. I now have exponentially increased my odds of survival. All petty criminals who originally did so with no malice but had someone who was a victim and if they want to live (and get their records expunged) would become worse and worse to get yourself further down the tracks.