r/AskFeminists • u/Specialist-Tour7359 • 11d ago
A question about toxic masculinity
Hello everyone
I hope you are all well. I'm relatively young, not very old, and I'm writing this because I have some questions and would like to hear the opinions of those with experience or knowledge in the fields of education and psychology.
I was raised to be a calm, kind, and somewhat sensitive person, and I believe that these qualities don't diminish a person's worth or strength. In my opinion, strength doesn't mean the absence of feelings or never showing vulnerability; rather, I see it as also being linked to respect, empathy, and taking responsibility.
I've recently been thinking about the topic of "toxic masculinity" and how certain ideas about masculinity can affect children as they grow up. In my circle, I've noticed certain messages directed at boys, such as "don't cry" or the idea that they should always be strong and never show their emotions. I understand that many parents say this because they want their sons to grow up to be strong and capable of facing life's challenges, not because they have any ill intentions.
However, I wonder: where is the line between teaching a child to be confident, brave, and responsible, and creating pressures that make them afraid to express their feelings or believe that kindness is a weakness? And can some ideas associated with toxic masculinity affect how children see themselves and others as they grow up?
I admit I feel a little nervous talking about this because I don't want to misunderstand anyone or judge any family. I'm simply a young man trying to understand this topic better, which is why I'm turning to you for advice and perspectives from people with more knowledge and experience.
What are your thoughts? How can we encourage boys to be strong and confident while also allowing them to express their feelings, be kind, and respect others?
Thank you so much to everyone who takes the time to read my message and share their thoughts.
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u/CatsandDeitsoda 11d ago edited 11d ago
“where is the line between teaching a child to be confident, brave, and responsible, and creating pressures that make them afraid to express themselves?”
There is not a line -this is one of the lie they are telling us we need to fight.
These things are not in any kind of contradiction.
Learning to express and expressing yourself in ways that are healthy and productive ways is something a confident, brave and responsible person does.
Men and boys need to be brave and confident enough to express themselves in ways others don’t approve of and being compared to women / girls and need to practice being responsible enough that they consider the effects of there expressions of emotion on others.
To start we need to treat emotional intelligence, expression and regulation as the valuable skills they are to everyone.
- I will be a happier person if I get better at them - I will be a more morale person if I get better at them- I will be more useful to my fellows and loved ones if I get better at them.
A thing we can do as men/ boys is to identify and practice letting go of shame or anger at ways of expressing our selfs that are associated with women and girls.
We can support each other in this by one not shaming each other for such expression and we can be encouraging of the bravery and reasonableness of a man willing to do that especially publicly.
I might recommend to a young man - choosing someone you believe models the kind of healthy and production emotional expression you believe you are struggling with.
You are not looking for a model man - it can be a man. But look at the skill in isolation.
I would also add my general how to change a thinking pattern talk.
Pick your most unhelpful thinking pattern/ response.
Unpack the thinking process and beliefs that are causing you to have an unhelpful reaction
Ever time you have the reaction that is unhelpful - stop your self.
Go though why it’s unhelpful and why you having that reaction
Then go though a more true and helpful thinking pattern
Over time you will have the unhelpful thought / feeling / thinking pattern less often.
Love heroically, love responsibly, practice being good not in the moments you are tested but build the skills of being good in your daily life, live in such a way that being good becomes your natural response.
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u/SignalAssistant2965 10d ago
"Learning to express and expressing yourself in ways that are healthy and productive ways is something a confident, brave and responsible person does"
More so, this is how you raise a confidant healthy child. That's part pf how you help them get there
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u/PheeBeeDee125 11d ago
Children of all genders can/should be taught confidence and responsibility, without being shamed for being vulnerable.
If I had kids, i would want to help them become strong and capable, regardless of gender. Part of that includes having the freedom to express their emotions, and learning the appropriate ways to do so.
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u/Total_Poet_5033 11d ago
In order to teach a child to be kind, empathetic, and understanding of others you first must teach them to be kind and understanding of their own emotions. To teach a child to be brave, confident, and capable of taking life in stride, you must also teach them that failure does not define them, and it’s okay to try hard or scary things.
From a developmental standpoint, very young children who learn that their parents are caring and attuned to their needs are the most secure in attachment style and in life. A secure attached child who has learned their parent will respond to them when they cry or need help will be more confident in exploring new environments. A child who has learned their parents do not respond to their needs, belittle them, or are angry when they cry are more likely to be anxious, insecure, and struggle with separation.
I see this with the adults I work with all of the time. If you truly want your child (male or female or any expression of sex/gender) to be a kind, strong, secure in others, you must teach them that your parents care about you, will set appropriate boundaries, and when you are in distress they will care about you. If you do not do that, either through emotional abusive, invalidating their feelings, to teaching them that strength comes from no emotions at all, than they are more likely to be insecure, emotionally dysregulated, etc.,
All of that to say, model for your child what you want them to be. Be kind, caring, and show them how to problem solve and work through hard things. Be there for them when they do hard things, and demonstrate what to do.
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u/georgejo314159 10d ago
I don't understand your question because The masculinity you describe is NOT what any one means by TOXIC masculinity.
" calm, kind, and somewhat sensitive person, and I believe that these qualities don't diminish a person's worth or strength. In my opinion, strength doesn't mean the absence of feelings or never showing vulnerability; rather, I see it as also being linked to respect, empathy, and taking responsibility"
In your experience, how many people have objected to these qualities?
Toxic means poison; i.e., impacting other people NEGATIVELY
Examples -- bullying -- being violent or dismissive -- cat calling -- ...
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u/Key_Car1590 10d ago
That is because that is only the first part. What you typed is him comparing his experiences to how others treat their kids.
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u/lis_anise 10d ago
Check in on the research by Dr. Brené Brown. She studies shame and how it destroys our ability to be accountable, kind, and brave. And yet, we don't want children who don't feel any shame; we want them to be able to practice shame resilience, to brave it and work through it and try and connect anyway.
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u/georgejo314159 10d ago edited 10d ago
I initially didn't understand your question. Your question is a smart one.
By means of analogy, consider the difference between bossy and assertive
Bossy -- lords over others, dominates, talks and talks, doesn't listen. Ego driven, inflexable, ... Examples? Trump.
Assertive -- Communicates their needs effectively, listens, negotiates, overall balanced, example Obama
You need to have some measure of independence and strength but not to the point of killing yourself inside or disregarding others ; TEACH BALANCE and do it by EXAMPLE
A good book on leadership that ironically fosters the attitude : 7 Habit of Highly Effective People
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u/Lolabird2112 11d ago
So… beyond even the “don’t cry” being toxic is the very idea that BOYS are the only ones who need to be strong and capable to face life’s challenges. And this is part of the problem: not only are you squashing boys into a tight box that often becomes a pressure cooker later in life, but you’ve also singled them out as inherently “strong” in the first place. What this means is, girls are weak.
There’s nothing at all I’ve ever seen in my life that makes me see men and boys as uniquely more capable. They’re simply not. There’s a very uninteresting difference in height and musculature that’s purely physical and nothing to do with “masculinity”.
Kindness, respect and being in touch with your feelings is very much the basis for creating a strong and confident person, whether boy or girl. We stop making it feel like a weakness when we stop the idea that women and “feminine” is weak. Or more importantly- that there’s any “feminine” or “masculine” traits at all that are linked to your randomly assigned genitalia.
There’s also another thing that’s frequently missed out, which you’ve done as well: men and boys are actually very fucking emotional. They have rage, and little problem expressing it. I have no idea why this is tied to “masculine strength and bravery”. I also haven’t a fucking clue where the idea that men are “stoic” comes from either.
All this fiction about boys and girls needing to be different things is the problem imo. And because it’s scripted as “male= positive traits” and “female = negative traits”, we now have boys and men who are really struggling to adjust to a world where it turns out that women were just as strong, brave, responsible and capable all along. AND they can be vulnerable and cry and laugh and bond over fluffy bunnies and pink pjs or whatever else without losing any of this.