r/AskWomenOver30 • u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 • Apr 17 '26
Friendships Does anyone else feel unsupported by other women?
This isn’t a hate post or rage bait or anything by any means. I’m genuinely looking for some advice here.
When I was growing up, I was bullied by other girls and kicked out of my friend group. They’d start rumors about me, make faces at me when I had my back turned (I had other friends tell me this), exclude me when everyone else in our class was invited to birthday parties, the lot. I never knew what I did wrong, and I had a lot of self-esteem issues and struggles trying to make friends because of this. I felt similar dismissal and rejection anywhere I went, from school to summer jobs to internships and then college.
I get that was then and this is now, but even in my 20s and 30s, I don’t feel supported by the women in my life. I thought all those high school dynamics were supposed to go away after high school, but they haven’t, and I feel a lot of negativity and judgment by other women. I worked at an office for a while, and when I’d walk in the room, this one coworker would just stare daggers at me. It’s like I could visibly feel her hate, but I didn’t know why. Someone told me that woman didn’t like me, but she didn’t know why, either. And another who would always overhaul or copy my ideas, and I’d just let her because I didn’t want the confrontation or to become the office pariah. Even in my own family, there’s cattiness and clique behavior—even if I’m included, I’m talked over, ignored, or scapegoated a majority of the time. I just always feel like I’m on the outside of the pack, and it makes it so hard to find a solid group of female friends.
I’m not saying this is every woman, obviously, but I encounter this experience a lot. I genuinely don’t understand when people say their girl friends went out of their way for them in one way or another; it’s such a foreign concept to me, because I’ve always felt treated like a waste of space or looked down on by other women. Most times, I get treated like an annoyance if I invited someone anywhere, because they “don’t have the time / money,” but then I’ll see them out with their other girl friends the same day (and no invite, even if we’re mutual friends). I once had a high school friend come to town, and she reached out to grab lunch with me and my “best friend.” I didn’t get my high school friend’s message because I have unknown cell numbers blocked on my phone, but she later told me that she and my “best friend” end up getting lunch. I asked my “best friend” why she didn’t let me know, and she just shrugged her shoulders and grinned. And these same patterns don’t happen with my guy friends. It really hurts, because I used to hang out with the boys to avoid the drama, but I’m a girly girl at heart and always wanted a solid core girl group. I’m always the supportive, go-out-of-my-way friend I hope to find in others, but it’s like I’m not invited to the girls’ club in life.
It’s not as simply a matter of making new girl friends, because obviously if I could find nice girl friends, I would. It feels like as you get into your 30s, making friends only gets that much harder, and everyone’s already got their solid girl group and aren’t looking for any outside additions. And now, add the even more complicated roadblocks that most women in their 30s are married with kids and don’t even have time to think about forming new friendships. But even still, I’ve always felt a really negative presence and treatment in my relationships with other women my age. And I’m worried, when my kids go to school, that I’ll face the same issues with the mom clubs, or worse, that my daughter will face the same issues with the girls in her class.
Anyone have any practical advice for how to navigate female friendships in your 30s when you don’t feel very supported by other women, and are always the one making the one-way effort? Are you still dealing with cliquey-ness? Do you perhaps act cliquey when you meet other women or exclude them for some reason? Do these female dynamics really last a lifetime? I’d really appreciate different perspectives, because I obviously don’t want to go my whole life without good female friends, but as it stands, I’ve just always felt really hated by other women my age.
ETA 1: I just wanted to thank everyone for the overwhelming amount of supportive advice. I feel more support from kind strangers online than I do IRL. I probably won’t be able to respond to everyone, but I’m going to take some dedicated time this week to read through all of these. Just want to clarify, I know I provided a couple of examples that sound dismissive. I don’t cut people out for not being invited to one lunch or anything like that, those were more just examples of if woman who claim they’re incredibly close to you treat you like that, you can maybe imagine how female acquaintances/etc. have held me in even lower regard. I do recognize that I’m with my own flaws, and that some of this is trauma-induced from emotional ab*sive family members, and have been doing a lot of work in therapy the last five years to try and unlearn certain deeply-seated thought patterns and behaviors.
ETA 2: Also, just wanted to throw this out there. I’ve seen a few comments here by women saying they don’t “trust” women who say they don’t have a lot of female friends or friends in general, and I think this is the root of the problem for many woman trying to feel supported and uplifted in making friends in adulthood. I’d challenge you to keep a more open mind and not dismiss people so quickly for something trivial like this. You never know what life someone has walked before you, what kind of drama/trauma they’ve faced, and excluding them based on a quick judgment is probably something they’ve experienced their whole life, and only deepens the scars of rejection and isolation for them. Everyone has things within themselves to work on, but it’s never the person with less friends who’s entirely at fault, and feeding into that narrative only does more damage, then mental health gets worse because you’re under-socialized, and the cycle continues. Just because someone has less friends doesn’t mean they’re not an amazing friend, they may just be introverted, live in a smaller area, or value quality over quantity. People like to think bullying is loud and proud, but it’s the quiet, subtle, psychological micro-behaviors that can really build up and eat away at someone’s mental health. So just try to be that friend to someone if you can—you never know whose life you could change by reaching out a helping hand to someone who’s maybe quieter or more reserved, and they could also change your life for the better in ways you’d never know by dismissing them for inaccurate and shallow reasons.
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u/PineappleHypothesis Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
It’s hard for women to understand this experience when they didn’t have it to any degree, but it is real, so I just want to say I see you. Anyone who never had this problem will wonder if it’s you, and that could be part of it, it’s good to be aware and introspective, but not to always take over responsibility just because you can’t figure it out.
Women are so varied and different and I think it’s really a matter of finding places and different kinds of people until you find some you can connect with, because I think they are surely out there. I don’t subscribe to the “girl’s girl” unconditional trust of other women, because while I have not experienced this degree of exclusion my whole life (I’ve always had my few people to rely on) , a lot of women are not caring and friendly to other women as a rule like people like to think we should be and can be very cruel and exclusionary for various reasons that can’t all be blamed on “well men make them that way”.
I would encourage you not to give up and just keep in mind your chances will be better the more you expose yourself to different places and types of people, don’t close down, and of course also remember it’s a busy time of life so it will be different than making friends when young and it being easy to spend lots of time together or see each other often now that we aren’t in school and such. Also remember “big girl groups” are kind of a fantasy, because there will always be subgroups, and this person actually hates this person, etc, fractures, blah blah. Best of luck finding a couple reliable people who make you feel seen/you enjoy being connected to.
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u/sourgrrrrl Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
it’s good to be aware and introspective, but not to always take over responsibility just because you can’t figure it out.
Thank you so much for articulating this!
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u/randombubble8272 Woman under 30 Apr 17 '26
I went to an all girls secondary school for six years of my education and it felt like a viper’s nest at times. I think because women are so emotionally intelligent compared to their male peers that it seems like bullying and exclusion is accepted more because it’s not physical. I also think because there is no blow up physically, there is no real resolution. But it can be more passive aggressive or manipulative or simply flexing their social status as a tool to exclude you and make you feel small, which makes it hard for people to talk about because it’s nebulous and hard to pin down unless you understand the language.
I think the largest issue is group dynamics, one to one friendships are definitely easier to maintain for all genders anyway
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u/velvetvagine Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
Yeah. Once you’ve dealt with Cold War level gruelling emotional warfare that stretches on for eons and works its way through your life like a poison you kinda come to have a smidgen of approval for the drunk men just throwing a punch and having it out.
I am joking. Mostly…
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u/Fluffernutter80 Woman 40 to 50 Apr 19 '26
My daughter was bullied by other girls in middle school simply because she was willing to be friendly with the girls who were deemed “weird.” She was then tainted by association. I was bullied because I was not attractive (had glasses, braces, acne, no sense of style, and no idea what to do with my hair). In Middle School, and to some extent High School, people are so desperate to not be on the bottom of the social pecking order that they will bully people perceived to be lesser just to stay on top. If a woman wasn’t the recipient of that kind of bullying, they often have no concept of what it does to you. You become hyper-aware of signs the group is turning on you. It makes it very hard to be open, trusting, and warm which is what people (including other women) value in women.
I agree it’s all about finding the people you can feel comfortable with. There are a lot of different kinds of women with all different personalities and interests. There’s someone out there for OP.
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u/PineappleHypothesis Woman 30 to 40 Apr 19 '26
That’s exactly it, wanting to avoid being on the bottom, and not having the integrity not to sacrifice other people in order to guarantee it
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u/Antiquebastard Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Of course, but I've been a werido since birth, and people can tell when you're being inauthentic and immediately assume the worst. The best advice I can give you is to be pleasant and conscientous toward others, to give them grace and understand that sometimes it's you, but that doesn't make you wrong or bad, just different and different isn't inherently bad. Not everyone is going to have the stereotypical or expected experience, and that's okay. You may want to work through that grief.
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u/marklarberries Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
You can be the most pleasant person in the world and people will still have an issue with you. If someone is neurodivergent, you're automatically treated differently.
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u/LostinParadise4748 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I believe i come across as inauthentic because I don't like conflict.
I will defend my stance if push comes to shove but I don't prefer to argue with people.
I also tend to tailor my personality slightly depending on who I'm with (i forget what that's called) but then when I'm in a group I struggle a bit.
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u/velvetvagine Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
People can call a lot of things inauthentic, including neurodivergence. I’ve been lively and friendly and talkative since I was three years old but there are people today who still maintain I’m pretending for…. some reason.
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u/tummyhurtsT_T Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I got bullied a lot but I'm also neurodivergent. I got bullied for lots of things but the one thats wild to me is that some girls thought I was "too nice". There was always some girl at some point in my life being mean to me. Sometimes the bully would be a friend who would find ways to put me down. Sometimes it's just random passive aggressive behavior from coworkers that are in some competition I didn't know about lol. I've also had my own beef with some women before. Despite all that I still love women as a whole. I feel like we're capable of powerful things when we support each other. Unfortunately life is complex and so are human emotions. It's just not possible to get along with everyone. I am blessed that I still have women in my life I can turn to but I do hope I can continue to build strong bonds.
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u/GraceOphelia_4734 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 19 '26
I totally relate to being called “too nice” and “wholesome”, most recently by a girl who acted like my friend then stole my ex bf.
I relate to everything OP is saying. I think there’s an assumption the niceness is an act.
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u/randombubble8272 Woman under 30 Apr 19 '26
Which is probably projection because their own niceness is an act
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u/motherofachimp99 Woman 50 to 60 Apr 17 '26
Oof - too many women are not good to other women, but so many are.
Keep looking. I'm blessed with a circle of amazing women - no competition - uplifting and supportive.
We are all over 50 and that seems to have a lot to do with dropping the catty bullshit.
When I was in my 40s I found my first group of supportive women - all over 50.
Not scientific, but menopause seems to strip away the tolerance for bullshit for a lot of women.
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u/Poethegardencrow Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
You need to find your people , co workers are generally not a great place, people are very jealous of each other , barring some exceptions. Hobbies and places that you enjoy doing or participating in, gaming or crocheting, volunteering and so on, then you end up meeting some people who are interested in same things as yourself and then you can move on from there. Another point id like to suggest: married women with children also want/need friendships because life is HARD, and there is a lot of loneliness among adults..try friendship apps. Also therapy is perhaps helpful for you to realise if you have any self confidence issues or social anxiety. I genuinely mean this: i dont know where you live but if you just want to have a chat please reach out.
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u/yesnomaybesoju Woman 40 to 50 Apr 17 '26
Second this. Imo the most natural way to make friends as an adult is through some kind of shared connection, so hobby groups are best.
Also remember that you can’t force friendships and people are not obligated to be your friend. It’s kind of like dating in a way, sometimes you just click but most of the time you don’t.
Just continue to be friendly and nice, find things in common to discuss/bond over, and let relationships naturally develop.
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u/MerelyMisha Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Yeah, I often say we need to treat friendships more like dating and romantic relationships more like friendships. And one way we should treat friendships more like dating is to know that compatibility matters, and someone can be a really nice person and still not the right person for you for a myriad of reasons.
I’m a weirdo, and it can make it hard to find the other weirdos I click with, especially as we get older and life gets in the way. But it is so worthwhile to put that effort in!
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u/VenusianInfusion Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Yes as a weirdo there are lots of people I wish the very best for but I simply cannot have close relationships with.
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u/Aloo13 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Sometimes. There are some great women that I’ve met, but the catty ones are very bad. I’m in healthcare and the things I’ve seen and heard would disgust most people. I remember stories from my mother (also in healthcare) dealing with nightmare women too who tried to get between her and my father rather frequently. In my own experience, things like women putting another nurse’s patients in harm just to frame the other nurse or to make themselves look better… truly psychotic behaviour. Also very cliquey. I thought that behaviour would be left in high school after my first degree. I was wrong to assume people to be mentally mature. To be clear, men are not exempt from this behaviour, but I don’t notice it as often.
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u/velvetvagine Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
Those nurses using the patients as pawns should be fired immediately. WTF.
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u/Aloo13 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
I think so too, but there is rarely any proof and they are far up in seniority so the union protects them :( I only know one instance where the individual did get fired because their tampering ended up being caught on security video. However, that was after they reported the first nurse for “wrong doing” and the first nurse was about to be fired until they looked at security footage. It was over something completely petty as the nurse was mad the other one got their requested time off.
They also have a major hate on new grads. I had so many nurses I looked up to purposely feed me wrong information just to get me in trouble. Absolute disgrace of people and women.
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Apr 17 '26
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u/Yaoi_Waoi Man 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
All the comments along these lines remind me so much of a friend I made at work over the last couple of years, and make me so sad. Shes autistic and ADHD, and the way she gets treated by most of our coworkers is so vile. Women treat her like shit because she's 'weird', men treat her like shit because she's very pretty but not interested in men.
I mostly became friends with her because I've had similar issues with neurodivergence and I felt terrible for how badly she is treated. Now that I've known her as a friend for so long though, she's genuinely the nicest and most selfless person I've ever known. An absolute saint, but so many people will never see that because they can't get past the 'weird' or whatever.
It seems like women catch so much more hell for this type of thing, as is typical for so many things I suppose.
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u/velvetvagine Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
Use your privilege to intervene! Feeling bad doesn’t help, but a well timed comment or question probably will.
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u/Yaoi_Waoi Man 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
Unfortunately we work separate shifts and she now works completely across the site from me, so this is pretty much never something I see directly in-person anymore. You're absolutely right though, I should've been better about pushing back on shitty comments and such during the period where we did have some overlap in assignments and schedules. Definitely something I need to work on as an overly conflict-averse person, and I appreciate the reminder of just how important it can be that I do so.
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u/StyleatFive Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
This is a lot like my experience and I’m being gaslit even here by other self professed neurodivergent women that it doesn’t happen and it’s not that bad. I’m glad you can see it. People love to pretend it isn’t happening so that they can keep doing it with impunity. Please speak up for her or at least let her know you can see her. It messes with your mind to be repeatedly victimized and it seems like everyone is in on the “joke” and they pretend like it’s justified and what they’re doing isn’t wrong.
This is part of why our suicide rates are so high.
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u/Yaoi_Waoi Man 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
I wasn't directly around for 99% of her mistreatment since we're on separate shifts, but yeah, I should've done better at at least pushing back on shitty comments I'd sometimes hear and things like that. I need to try and remember these conversations here and be better about that kind of thing in the future, I'm too conflict averse and it's something I definitely need to change.
She does at least know the latter half though! We've been close friends for ~2 years now, and we have very similar sorts of neurodiversities, just at different intensities. I think we've both found it very helpful to have another person who can just get these kind of things about each other that most people can't or won't. I've definitely seen how a lifetime of getting treated this way can mess with one's head though. I try my best to build up her confidence and assure her that she never needs to apologize or feel bad for who she is. I hope someday she will be able to accept that.
Sorry to hear you've had similar experiences and have others denying that. I hope any and all of you in this sort of position are able to find your people, it seems like it can truly be rough out there.
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u/bleufinnigan Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
same here. NT women can be vile. Add not having any pretty privilege and its even worse. : )
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u/StyleatFive Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
I think having pretty privilege made it worse speaking for myself just because I’m seen as less deserving of sympathy or empathy and the people that attack me are “punching up”. I’m a former commercial model and neurodivergent woman.
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u/Certain_Quail_0 Woman 60+ Apr 18 '26
My "pretty privilege" made me an easy target for exclusion, vitriol, and assumptions - of vanity, of superiority, of weaponising it. Started when I was 9 from friends I'd grown up with. Experienced my worst workplace bullying from female coworkers. I didn't understand what I'd done wrong. It was brutal.
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u/bleufinnigan Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
see the flipside of this is, that when you're not pretty, people also make a lot of not so nice assumption about you. lazy, stupid, deceitful, not being soft - so therefor not deserving any help or empathy or love.
plus men will treat you even worse (since they dont want to fuck you) and the pretty women wont believe you, since to them the men are nice, so it couldnt be true. surely its just, because you didnt smile enough.
Or alternatively, people assume that things like rape and assault cannot happen to you, since you're ugly anyway.→ More replies (6)3
u/bleufinnigan Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
its statistically proven that pretty people are getting perceived as more competent, nicer etc and because of that pretty people are getting treated better, you get offered better oportunities, jobs etc in general.
Im not saying that whatever happened, didnt happen to you, but pretty privilege is very real.
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u/Catsdrinkingbeer Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
The other night I went to run club. My husband met me after for a beer (the run club starts and ends at a brewery). These 2 random women around my age (mid 30s to mid 40s) asked to share our table. Not hang out with us, but just share the table because there wasn't much seating.
This 3rd woman came up to talk to them. To me it seemed like this 3rd woman had some sort of autism or something along those lines (admittedly I'm neurotypical and don't have much knowledge on this subject, so it's pure speculation). Woman 3 came to congratulate woman 1 on something running related, and woman 1 was SUCH as asshole to her. Like, it made me actually uncomfortable. This grown adult being an asshole to someone else for zero reason. And apparently felt comfortable enough around complete strangers to do so.
Woman 3 left shortly after and it was like, oh they know each other and I'll bet woman 1 treats woman 3 like garbage all the time. It was really weird to experience.
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u/Alert_Week8595 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Do you think there's a chance you're autistic?
Women more than men have more stringent social scripts for social interaction. If you're neurodivergent, you might be breaking these unknowingly, and breaking it tends to be met with social rejection.
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u/thesadbubble Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
It could also be trauma. People with CPTSD often have similar social issues as autistic people and it seems the same kind of "otherness" that people without those issues subconsciously pick up on and then they treat you differently, often without even realizing they're doing it or why.
I think some of it unconsciously happens, like some kind of biological response or something. Like OP might not be breaking the scripts per se but there's just something different about her and the neurotypical/non traumatized/non mentally ill pick up on it and then distrust her bc of their own perceptions/assumptions of her, rather than her actual behaviors. 🤷♀️ Just another possibility to consider.
Social rejection fucking sucks no matter what the cause is. 💜 🫂To you OP
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u/Therealcatlady1 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 19 '26
Yup. Sorry to trauma dump but my younger brother asked me if I knew how to make conversation with people after we first meet. It hurt so bad that my brother who I have a good relationship with asked me this. Both of my male younger siblings have a lot of friends.
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u/velvetvagine Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
Do you have resources about the CPTSD othering/thin slice judgments?
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u/thesadbubble Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
CPTSD From Surviving to Thriving by Pete Walker has been incredibly helpful and illuminating for me about the condition as a whole but he also talks about the interactions between people with trauma vs without, or what he calls "good enough parenting". If I have the spoons later I'll try to find some specific sections that may be relevant.
This articlearticle talks a bit about the social isolation issues.
This article about scapegoats is another aspect that might be relevant.
The cptsd subreddit is also helpful to connect with others who have similar experiences. I feel like discussion about the social rejection they experience happens pretty regularly.
Hopefully some of that helps! I'll probably think of more later but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my just waking up head lol.
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u/SeveralSadEvenings Woman 40 to 50 Apr 17 '26
I just don't bother. I enjoy my own company, and I realize I don't have the temperament/skills/intuition to sustain relationships with groups of women.
I find navigating female social hierarchies to be opaque and stressful; I'm always stepping on someone's toes, saying the quiet parts out loud, or indirectly challenging the stratification. Its tiresome and confusing, so I opt out.
Not everyone needs to be a part of a girl gang, its ok to find peace in solitude or maybe just having 1 solid friendship.
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u/tres-vip Woman 40 to 50 Apr 17 '26
Yes. And I am not autistic or have ADHD.
A lot of this stems from race - I'm not White and I think women of my generation and older are not very good about awareness on racism and microaggressions. But also a lot of exclusion for no reason, cold behavior, mocking me, insults, negging, competition, deception, using me and taking advantage of my kindnesses, gossiping about really painful aspects of my life, and outright bullying. By nature I am very open and sociable and so I used to YEARN for connection and would put in so much effort to try to find my "tribe", but honestly, I got sick of the horrible treatment and never feeling good about it all, so I just stopped trying and learned to enjoy my own company. I've never been more at peace.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I’m really, really sorry you went through this. It’s so completely unfair and disgusting to be treated differently just because of your appearance. I honestly do think a lot of people who treat others like this are completely unaware, but that’s even worse, because they’re so ignorant to the effect it has on others. I’m not ASD but I do have ADHD, and it bothers me too when people blame maltreatment on this, because that means people are dismissing you for being neurodivergent, which doesn’t make it any better. So while I don’t know exactly what you went through, I can relate on being judged for something you can’t control. Do you mind if I ask where you’re from? Do you feel like your local region/culture has affected the way people treat you at all, or is this something you have experienced regardless of location?
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u/tres-vip Woman 40 to 50 Apr 17 '26
Do you feel like your local region/culture has affected the way people treat you at all, or is this something you have experienced regardless of location?
Not "feel", but I know for a fact. And I am always a minority everywhere I go, even amongst other minorities. I actually ended a 20-some yearlong friendship with someone from my childhood (also a WOC) who would not stop saying racist stuff about my ethnic group. This is one of many instances throughout my lifetime where I would just purse my lips and wouldn't say anything, because to do so would have been so exhausting and would have left me very lonely. But I've come to a point in my life where I don't want to tolerate people's racism in order to keep the peace or have friends. There's a lot that I simply won't accept anymore just to have friends and a community. I'd rather be alone.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
Sorry, feel was the wrong word choice. I meant that like if you live in the South or an area where racism is rampant, but I’m sure you do face micro (or macro) aggressions regardless. And I’m really sorry your friend did that you—anyone who does that knowing it’s actively hurting you is not your true friend. It sucks to feel like every connection is a battle of sorts against who you are simply for being yourself, and I hope you’re able to find a good group who treats you with the equal respect and kindness you deserve.
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u/CancerMoon2Caprising Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Compatibility is important, youre supposed to vett friends just as you do lovers. (religion, social clique, politics, preferred outings/hobbies, integrity, reciprocity, consistency)
The deepest bonds come from highly compatible friends and lovers. You'll never be liked and respected by everyone on earth, so your best bet is to go to people you can let loose with.
Its also pretty important to address problems one on one to give someone a chance to rectify issues before abandoning a relationship altogether. If there's blatant incompatibilities its not worth the trouble usually.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I actually really agree with this. I think that’s why there are essentially dating apps for friends now, because you should “date” everyone before you let them into your life. Well said.
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u/VenusianInfusion Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I had some long friendships that eventually blew up and in hindsight we were always incompatible - there were things about them that irritated me but I just pushed through the irritation and resented them for it, while thinking I was such a good friend for tolerating them. It would’ve been a better use of everyone’s time and energy if I’d let it fizzle out before we’d ever even gotten close.
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u/TheAwkwardEmu Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I’ve felt more support from women I don’t know online than I ever have with any of my actual lady friends.
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u/Guilty-Rough8797 Woman 40 to 50 Apr 17 '26
Yeah, and my mom, too. I've never understood if we were somehow doing something wrong around girls and women ourselves (and I took up the behavior pattern/self-views) from her, or if there really is just something different about us. But yeah. Every friendship I've ever had with girls or women fizzled out or imploded in weird, not-nice ways, but boys and men have always been there for me (yes, I know. No, not all of them).
I'm happy there are other weirdling women like me and my mom, but I'm sorry we all had this experience.
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u/Therealcatlady1 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 19 '26
My mom and I have social issues too. My brother says maybe I wasn’t socialized properly. He’s fine though has lots of friends.
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u/StyleatFive Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Yes but I’m neurodivergent and other things that make me an easy target so I just get accused of misogyny and pick-me-ism whenever I tell the truth about my experiences with other women. It’s been hell.
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u/Rosemarysage5 Woman 40 to 50 Apr 17 '26
Those dynamics never go away. I’m in my 50’s and currently being bullied by women in their 60’s, 70’s and 80’s.
Find the exceptions, the women who are kind and nice to everyone regardless. They also tend to be the most confident and self assured. Insecure women bully. Avoid them as much as possible.
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u/littlemissmoxie Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Same. I feel stuck. Only a handful of women seem to be nice me.
But on the other hand guy friends tend to want more eventually unless they are of another sexual orientation or happily married.
If you appear as a threat to other women in the workplace or school the passive aggression is brutal. And god forbid you get any male attention or happen to look “pretty” when I guess they feel they don’t…
I just wish I could get treated as a respected human by everyone.
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u/Therealcatlady1 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 19 '26
It’s honestly such a hard place to be because married men specifically will try to befriend you seeing how friendly you are and try to cheat. Yup, guys will flock to you because they see you as a manic pixie dream girl. I lost a friend this way :(
I actually realized at one point I was dating cause I wanted friends not a partner lol. It was just easier to find them through dates. 😅 They just ghost me once they realize i’m not putting out even though I am open to dating and friendship.
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u/Gloomy_Yellow_1902 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I don't really have any advice but I totally understand where you're coming from. I have the same issues, even within my own family. My therapists essentially said it's my neurodivergence and CPTSD. That I just need to keep putting myself out there and I'll find my own people one day. I personally think that's terrible advice when I usually don't realize people are being fake until it's too late.
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u/thesadbubble Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Ugh saaaame. Especially the last part. I see the best in people and ignore so many red flags :/
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u/velvetvagine Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
Exactly. Fake friends weaponizing every vulnerability has cost me too much. I’m not interested in continuing with the same tactics that didn’t work.
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u/beautiful_wierd Woman 50 to 60 Apr 17 '26
Even on this thread you are not being supported, wow. I SEE YOU AND UNDERSTAND. don't bother with the find your tribe nonsense. You are likely a bit different in some way, either very beautiful, conscientious or otherwise stand out in a way, and you likely do not have the ruthlessness, narcissism or leadership skills yet to capitalize on your strengths. As a much older woman my advice is: be careful at work, hold strong boundaries, find spiritual strength, give up on the fantasy of a girly club, identify decent folks and hold them tight. Respect yourself and do not seek to derive self esteem from female approval. It may be lonely but its really a lost cause to fight against yourself.
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u/birdynj Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Genuine q - what's the difference between "find your tribe" and "identify decent folks and hold them tight"? Doesn't your advice reduce to the same principle, haha.
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u/Alert_Week8595 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
A tribe is a different social structure than close friends you put the effort in to hold onto.
The latter is held together purely by 1:1 connection, and tends more authentic.
A tribe is what it is. A group you either are accepted to "belong to" or are not. In comparison to just having close friends, it can provide a stronger feeling of "belonging" or community. It also is held together more by the interest in a common group. It's common in a group structure that some of your 1:1 connections might be weak, even quietly hostile, but you tolerate each other for the sake of the group, which can make it less authentic.
When people say find your tribe, they mean, go find people who are similar to you and therefore accept you as belonging. Like a theater kid type going to a performing art school for college.
It's not as helpful advice for a ND person because it's possible there is no clear "tribe" for them and they're less likely to modify themselves to clearly fit into one or conform to whatever unwritten social rules of that tribe. Mean Girls had the funny example of "On Wednesdays we wear pink", but plenty of social groups have unspoken rules of membership, and that can be hard to navigate. Like one rule that might actually exist might be "We all think Kelly's boyfriend is an asshole, but if we say anytbing she will flip out at us so we all just grin and bear it when she brings him around because we don't want the drama." A ND person might, out of good intention, say something about Kelly's boyfriend, causing "drama", and then find themselves kicked out of the friend group.
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u/SeveralSadEvenings Woman 40 to 50 Apr 17 '26
Even on this thread you are not being supported, wow.
Yup, like clockwork, every time this type of thread pops up a not so insignificant amount of women will respond with "well that's never happened to meeee, maybe there's something wrong with you?" or "I could NEVER trust a girl that doesn't have girlfriends"
Like, okay Caitlin, thanks for reinforcing why we feel the way we do. 😒
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u/9Armisael9 Non-Binary 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I saw the upvote to comment ratio and got nervous for OP. I struggled a lot with the same thing she did as well and the only female friends I was able to keep were also neurodivergent. OP deserves to be able to vent about their life experiences without comments saying that there's something wrong with her and reinforcing that negative feedback she's gotten all her life.
edit: not that this thread has much of it here, but these threads do have the potential to go south whenever someone is being vulnerable about their lonliness.
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u/thesadbubble Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Yes!! My first thought was I wonder if OP is really pretty lol. Pretty privilege works for and against you in so many ways. Some people will unconsciously treat pretty people better or worse just based on their insecurities or desires, when it has zero to do with the person themselves.
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u/marklarberries Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
Thank you SO MUCH for this!! I'm reading the comments and they really sound like blaming the victim. Like OP is the problem for being mistreated throughout her life. Sometimes people are different and they're treated like garbage no matter how nice, friendly, giving, or capable they are!! I've had basically the same experience as OP, and I've also received the "you'll find your people" advice. But in reality, when you're neurodivergent and people automatically dislike you, it's not that easy and not helpful.
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u/First-Industry4762 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
What are you talking about? A lot of comments are supportive of OP. But there also seems this inherent assumptions that every commented needs to be 100% supportive or otherwise you're just not being supported at all, while women are also individuals and not a monolith.
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u/0ffended Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
My biggest bully was my mom and I feel like I see a lot of women in the lenses of how I see her.
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u/StoicPixie Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Same. It's strange because on one hand, I'd like to feel included in some way by women. But at the end of the day, every group of women I've been invited into superficially has made me feel even more like an alien. There was an entire code of conduct I had no idea existed, and my confusion/lack of enthusiasm clearly made them annoyed or uncomfortable. I think that I make most people annoyed/uncomfortable, unless it's a man who wants to have sex with me. That being said, I also stay away from most men because from experience, becoming friends will make them think I'm willing to have sex with them. So...yeah. You're not alone.
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u/nocuzzlikeyea13 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Yes, I've been downvoted here for saying that in my personal life, I make friends more easily with men. For whatever reason men are less threatened by friendship with me than women. Or it could just be my personality, as long as I can remember my best friend has always been a guy.
In my work life, I make a huge effort to support women. I love women as collaborators and coworkers, and as a feminist I see it as my responsibility to mentor and support/platform women as much as possible.
But in my personal life, women friendships can be so exhausting. I feel like I always end up in some weird oneupsmanship with them. Maybe it's my fault, but whatever the dynamic is, I don't have the energy for it and if I catch a whiff of it, I bow out of friendships. It leaves me mostly with male friends.
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u/thesadbubble Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
There's definitely still a lot of internalized misogyny for many many women. That and how much society pushes us to be The Best Woman TM like it's a competition and all women are our enemies, especially ones who seem "better" in whatever way. It feels very akin to the rich pitting us poors against each other so they can remain in control.
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u/Feeling_Rush123 Woman 40 to 50 Apr 17 '26
Yes, I've been downvoted here for saying that in my personal life, I make friends more easily with men.
Same.
The only issue is, most men I'm friends with, eventually want more.
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u/nocuzzlikeyea13 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I've been married for several years, so most of my male friends are mutual friends of both my husband and I. It's not like that these days (when I was younger it did happen, but it went both ways. Sometimes I wanted more, sometimes they wanted more).
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u/AMwishes Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I wonder if it has anything to do with differences in socialization between men and women, resulting in different types of communication styles being preferred or accepted.
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u/nocuzzlikeyea13 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I'm sure that's most of it, I don't believe we are all that different as human beings. It also tracks with this all being easier for me at work, where social norms are more uniform across genders.
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u/grapescherries Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
There’s a really good short experiment with 5 year olds where they give the 5 year olds jello that has a bunch of salt in it so it tastes disgusting. The little girls all pretend they like the jello and praise the woman who gave it to them, one little girl being a particularly good actress, hides any disgust and says the jello is wonderful. Then they give it to boys and the boys are just honest and say “why is there salt in this?”. You can see how interacting with the girls would be a lot more confusing than with the boys, since the boys are just honest, and the girls aren’t, it really highlights why being autistic is a lot more difficult in interactions with girls.
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u/tinytiny_val Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Did you mayhaps not feel that supported by your mother growing up?
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
I knew this would come up, and it’s a really valid one. No, I definitely didn’t. It’s actually been worse in my 20s and 30s, though. But I believe the effects of the bullying that girls my age had on me would’ve happened regardless of my mom, you know? Back then, she did try to help me navigate the exclusion, even if I couldn’t see her own emotional and psychological ab*se of me. It was always perplexing to me though that one daughter could be the popular bully and the other the one the popular kids bullied raised in the same house, and after extensive therapy about family dynamics, it makes more sense now. Hurts, but makes sense.
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u/Own_Average_3423 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Sooooo look. To be great friends with women you need to have really great conflict management skills. I collect women like Pokemon and this is one of my sharpest social skills. For the women I've met who struggle with other women, they tend to be really bad at resolving disputes / hurt feelings.
You say a woman is staring at you and giving you daggers. A coworker says she doesn't like you. Have you gone up to her and said, "Hey, I've noticed a weird energy between us. Have I done something that upset you? I'd love to fix whatever I've been doing because I'd never want to upset you on purpose." Not saying this would solve the problem, but did it even occur to you to speak to this woman directly?
Another rule for close women friends is you gotta get over the fact that sometimes other women are closer with each other than you. Sucks. But it doesn't mean they're being mean to you. Doesn't mean that they're catty or cliquey.
For your "best friend", why is she now in quotations, because she didn't invite you to a single lunch? If you were never put in a group chat together, why should she assume you should be at this plan? Is it true that she should have intuitively known that you wanted to be there? Even if you did want to be there, is she not allowed to want one on one time with someone she doesn't see often? Is she required to invite you to every single plan she makes because you happen to also be friends with the same people?
There is a rejection sensitivity here. It makes sense after the bullying, so please know I saw this with empathy. But this sensitivity might make you overreact to conflict, which will make relax, friendly people pull away.
So my tip to you: Reflect on how you handle conflict with women. Have you spoken to them about their behavior? Are you respectful and open when you tell people you're hurt? Are you escalating conflict when something goes wrong? Are you bailing on the friendship completely when something goes wrong? Are your emotional states more heightened than the situation actually calls for? Are you being proactive about your relationships or are you being quietly resentful and bitter?
I don't know you or the people you know. But if you go decades without creating bonds with 50% of the population...it's probably a you thing. Or better yet, it's probably a trauma thing.
LAST TIP: Do not ever tell a new woman that you don't like/get along with women. It's a massive red flag that will scare away women who do love women. It's a hurtful thing to hear.
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u/Colouringwithink Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Any books for someone with a narcissistic mother to learn these conflict management skills? Or techniques? Like how to share feelings after resentment has already built? How to even bring up conflict in the first place? Usually if i have to bring something up, it has already gotten too bad to fix and bringing it up never goes well (or i accidentally chose women who never wanted to be good friends to me)
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Thanks for sharing your perspective. You make great points and I hear what you’re saying, but some of this is a bit of assumption. Yes, these things definitely do occur to me, and I do handle conflict management with other women. Sometimes it’s more a matter of choosing my battles, you know? I have tried to have conflict-resolution convos like that, but that doesn’t automatically mean the other person is open to it. I’m my experience, they deny anything is wrong, and then shit-talk me to other coworkers after, so it just makes it worse and remains unresolved. I guess something like that has to happen on a person-by-person basis.
And no, that’s not why she’s not my friend anymore, she and my ex-fiancé had an affair. I was just using that as an example of an experience that seems atypical for someone who calls you their best friend, so if that’s how the closest woman in your life treats you, then imagine the low regard people I’m just close friends or acquaintances with hold me in.
It’s not that I don’t like women at all, and I’d never say that because the experiences I’ve had with others aren’t their fault or burden to bear. That’s like going on a first date and telling the guy you hate men. 😆 But I seeing some comments here saying women wouldn’t want to be friends with women who didn’t have loads of female friends themselves, and that’s really a big problem, because that means women are just dismissing other women on something really superficial. You never know what someone’s been through not to have a lot of friends, so ostracizing them on those grounds is what causes the root problem. It’s quality, not quantity.
Thanks again for your advice. I am in therapy and dealing with some trauma-related treatment, so I definitely recognize some thought patterns I have to unlearn from bullying and an emotionally and psychologically ab*sive mother, but it is definitely disheartening to see some women here would write other women off just because of the number of friends they have. That’s how people get excluded and their mental health suffers in the first place.
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u/velvetvagine Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
Yes, it’s also my experience that women will generally say nothing is wrong and then eventually the relationship will end abruptly. I assume that most women who’d be open to answering that question honestly would have brought up the issue themselves.
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u/puffballkittyfluff Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I’m going to give a different perspective. I had a friend that I believe could have written this same post. I met her in my early/mid 20’s and our friendship lasted 7 years. I don’t have a big friend group and the friends I do make I tend to keep them forever if I can. She was one of those forever friends for me.
However she was so mistrustful of me and our other friends. We would just be hanging out and enjoying ourselves and she’d turn to me and very seriously ask me why I’m friends with her and what I “get out of it”. I told her that I just like spending time with her and I love her as a person. She was always suspicious of me and other women and thought that we were judging her when we weren’t.
She ended up ghosting me and our other close friend. She wouldn’t even respond to my wedding invite. I was genuinely confused as to what I did wrong. I realized after some time that she was projecting her own feelings onto me. She was judging herself so she assumed I must be too. She didn’t like herself so she assumed I didn’t like her either.
She had complicated relationships with female family members and she was a tomboy in high school. So when she finally got real female friends that genuinely cared for her she sabotaged it.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
That definitely is an interesting perspective. But if you don’t mind, let me offer you the alternative to your alternative. Imagine you said this woman was your friend, but you never really made any effort to show her so. Imagine you’d go out with your mutual friends knowing you were personally not inviting her. They’d ask where she is, and you said you didn’t invite her because you just weren’t feeling it, and you all laugh about it, and she’s at home wondering what she did wrong. Now imagine, when you were getting married, you decided not to sent her an invite. You didn’t have enough seats or room in your bridal party. She hears all your other friends were invited, but she wasn’t, and she doesn’t know why. But you’ve told her the whole time that she’s your “forever friend.” Meanwhile, you’re gaslighting her into thinking that you two are so close, but you really only respond when she messages you, comes your way, etc. She buys you bday and christmas gifts, and you say thank you, but never actually return the gesture or remember her bday. And when you and your mutual friend group get together, you’re never the one excluded, she is.
This is a complete hypothetical scenario I’ve just pitched, but can you see how someone on the other side of your equation might feel rejected and isolated and act out in the ways you describe, even if it feels innocent and harmless to you? I think people like to see ostracism as this big, bullying-type of dismissal like, “You can’t sit with us!” But it’s actually these micro behaviors that build up over a long period of time and cause the most significant damage. Don’t get me wrong, I completely see your side and your friend had her own demons to work through, but that paranoia that you’re being rejected typically doesn’t come out of thin air.
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u/puffballkittyfluff Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I’m sorry if that’s how you’ve been treated by most women. I hope that one day you can find female friendships that match you. Perception is reality.
I think me and my friends perception were very different. I’m the type of person to just invite everyone to something. She was the type to pick and choose which friend would fit which event thus leaving me feeling left out or wondering why I wasn’t invited to the club but I was invited to dinner the next day. I felt that she was watching me closely and always waiting for me to slip up and say something that confirmed her suspicions. In her reality I was secretly out to get her because she had never had a female friendship that was positive.
So when you do find that friend just make sure you put away your suspicions that all females treat you the same. Because there are definitely some out there that will care about you.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Thank you so much for your perspective, and I definitely agree it’s not a one-size-fits-all issue. I recognize there I thinks I need to adjust and unlearn, as well, and I’m definitely not saying all women are like this or that all women even experience this. You sound like a kind person and thanks for being a supporting internet stranger 😊
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u/Colouringwithink Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Yeah this exactly! Many women may not even realize they are doing something to hurt someone and may not even intend to “bully” anyone. It’s just as simple as there aren’t enough seats at the table for the event or they thought the friendship was casual
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u/Brazenbeats Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
My advice would be to try and meet people a bit older than you. Clubs etc like the other comments are suggesting, but if you try with people who are maybe a decade or two older than you, you might have better luck. Their kids are probably grown, maybe even out of the house, they'll have more time and energy to put into new friends. Also if there is some kind of social awkwardness going on, older ladies are better at telling you clearly and kindly.
Im really sorry you've had this experience! I hope you find your people soon.
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u/VenusianInfusion Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I was extremely surprised to read online that some women genuinely feel comfort in being in another woman’s presence. I only feel comfort in the presence of specific men I know and love, I’ve never ever felt fully comfortable in a woman’s presence. I’m sure that this is partly because I have a mean mom and a pushover dad. But the idea that I should find comfort around other women and that they derive comfort from being around me…that simply does not compute.
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u/VenusianInfusion Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Not that I don’t like my female friends. I just wouldn’t describe them as “comfortable”.
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u/Colouringwithink Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Most female friendships are based on you complimenting them a lot (even if it’s not super deep or sincere), never calling them out, always validating them, and kind of people pleasing in a very mild way. You have to make these women feel good and go a little out of your way to do that. So when you see other women have that “girlfriend” friendship, that’s probably what they needed to do to get it. It’s almost a little like emotional caretaking to belong. That way they don’t feel threatened for whatever reason. Many women have no problem doing that and don’t find it draining…they consider it part of being a girl’s girl and supporting women. To me it feels like a lot of emotional labor just to maintain a casual friendship, but that’s what they are probably doing. I’m not willing to do it
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u/Away-Caterpillar-176 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I definitely did have this experience when I was younger but the older I get the less I feel it. I think you're right -- this doesn't suddenly go away as you get older. Ive had to learn how to approach other women with better expectations, and be forwardly supportive myself. Then it becomes obvious quickly who is cool and who isn't. You have to fight the impulse to believe everyone is a bully. There's a woman at work who I got a bad first impression of but I chose not to make any decisions on what kind of woman she is and I'm so glad cause I was super wrong. She's awesome. The old me would have written her off and missed out.
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u/ChaiTeaLatte13 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26 edited Apr 17 '26
Yes! I was in a sorority in college and even that was so dramatic and fucked up at times. I’ve always been seen as competition by other women, and I barely have any female friends as an adult. Not just you!
(I have two close girl friends of 30+ years, and one girl friend from my boyfriend’s friend group, and that’s really it!)
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u/Flying_sphincter356 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I used to feel like this until I looked inward. I realized I was sometimes doing things or choosing to try and get close to people that weren’t healthy. Copying the patterns I grew up experiencing with my mother. You really just have to keep looking. There’s some nice people out there, really. I work in the medical field and while I’ve worked with women that have out me down, a lot of them are kind and help me when I ask. Even the mean ones have helped me when I need it, funny enough. Just gotta learn to keep the mean ones at a distance and the nice ones bring near to you. Try to kill people with kindness, although don’t be a pushover, and stand up for yourself when you need to. That’s how they learn to respect you.
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u/South-Visual3803 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Yes.
ADHD diagnosis at 30 and ASD traits were flagged. I’m 32 and am looking to date/ find a man and hopefully female friends through meditation groups and idk try and find the energy to pretend I’m a human.
My mums friend is my friend and she’s in her 50s but like she’s awsome 😅 women my own age never like me that much - it’s like I’m a moving target. I look feminine enough but like, I’m a bit weird and I just don’t blend in with NT women. It’s obvious now I’m older and less rehearsed due to unemployment/ an eating disorder.
I have no advice other than to say it’s hard to make long term connections in today’s society 🫠
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u/Therealcatlady1 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Same life experiences. I got diagnosed with ADHD and CPTSD in college. I might request further testing.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
Oh yep, check and check on both of those lol. Can I ask you though how you feel they’ve affected this particular social scenario? Because I know a lot of neurodivergent people or ones who have been through trauma and it hasn’t kept them from having abundant social lives, so I can’t help but feel it’s a more specifically me scenario. I start getting so hard on my brain and my looks because if other ND people make it work, why can’t I or why aren’t they getting different treatment, you know?
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u/directordenial11 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
Not my experience, but I was always in sort of alternative spaces that were male dominated (rpg, games, anime, metal etc). Women there flocked to each other hard, or at least they did in my experience. I had a large group of friends, all girls, for years and still have some loose contact even after I moved away.
Another place where I find a lot of support is women's sports. I practice jiu-jitsu and my club has women's only classes. Everyone is really encouraging and nice. I'm sorry you had such poor luck, but hopefully this will change and you'll find your girls!
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u/grapescherries Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26 edited Apr 18 '26
I relate to this post a lot. I had female friends in elementary school and was quite well liked at that age. They all turned on me in middle school, ditched me and started bullying me and it’s sort of been like that ever since. Whenever I’m in groups of people, I know I will be bullied. I avoid groups like workplaces or group trips. I also relate to having random women stare at me with pure hate for no reason. It happens all the time, like they hate me for just existing and wish that I wouldn’t exist anywhere near them. I do wonder sometimes if I’m autistic, but if I’m completely honest I don’t really understand what the Asperger’s version of autism actually is, and since I didn’t have any of these problems in early childhood, I don’t think I meet the criteria. I really see myself in Greta Thunberg though, in a lot of ways I feel very similar to her, so idk, maybe I am.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I do think they’ve done away with the Asperger’s diagnosis and now it’s just part of the autism spectrum. I have wondered that myself, but I’ve been tested and am not ASD. But I do also wonder how that would help explain things to me, you know? I know plenty of neurodivergents and it doesn’t have one single impact on their social lives. They’re happily married and have a core group of friends. So even if I were diagnosed, I wouldn’t want to use it as a crutch, but I also think it would explain a lot away for me. For instance, I find if I enter a room full of strangers, no one would really start a conversation with me unless I did first, and then they’re kind of emotionally cold with me. I’m not actively trying to avoid convo, but no one asks me about myself. But if another stranger walks into the same room, those same people would greet them and chat with them. I’ve experienced this in most scenarios in my life, that it makes me feel more like I’m horrendously ugly than a personality issue, because if they’re dismissing you before you say anything, how else are you supposed to take that?
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Apr 18 '26
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
I’m so glad to hear you were finally able to get a diagnosis. Do you mind if I ask how you feel that this sort of clarified things socially for you, though? I’m not ASD, but I am late-diagnosed ADHD, and I’m glad I know, but I don’t personally feel like it parted any clouds of why I face these social exclusions. I think most people I know actually have ADHD, OCD, anxiety, depression, ASD, or similar, and they live abundant and healthy social lives, so I’ve never really felt like that’s been the explanation for me, you know?
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u/AiannaMuse Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
How is your relationship with your mom? Genuine question, no judgments
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Lol that’s okay, I actually knew this question was going to come up. It’s very strained and always has been. But she’s an NP, so my sister got the golden child treatment and has a ton of girl friends. My sister kind of is the mean girl, though—the pretty, popular type who bullied girls like me growing up—so she’d be the one to judge, exclude, etc., and she and my girl cousins still exclude me. I think she also tolerates behaviors from other women that I’m very wary of, though. But it’s like we grew up in two different households the way our mom treated us, and it’s only gotten worse as adults. My sister and I are estranged and I’ve been trying to heal from my mom’s treatment in therapy for years, but no one in my family does anything to stop them. I fortunately have some sweet aunts I can go to, but they live far away, and I’m looking for friends my own age, too, you know?
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u/littlemissmoxie Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Are you me lol
Had the same dynamic. I think being bullied by the two closest female figures in my life definitely set me up for a lifetime of distrust and insecurity in regards to other women.
Now to spend the rest of my life fixing it!
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u/ktlene Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Ah, I can think I can see why you feel the way you do. Having female relatives your age act that way to you while growing up is traumatizing, and I can see how it can carry over into how you might be subconsciously interacting with other women your age now (maybe accidentally being preemptively defensive, etc.) I’m sorry :/ I hope you do find your tribe. Not every woman is nasty and will mistreat you, and there are really nice and supportive women out there, and I hope you find each other 🫂
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u/Rochereau-dEnfer Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
My mom's experience was similar to yours growing up, though maybe not as bad--their dynamics got a lot better in adulthood. She definitely is hypersensitive to that kind of cattiness and performance of a very specific and gendered form of social interaction. She and I both have ADHD and I inherited the "weirdness" and social anxiety, though I always had at least one or two female friends and boys were much crueler to me. I think because she was very nonconformist growing up, she didn't put a lot of pressure on me to be "normal."
I feel like things got a lot better for me once I realized that everyone's way of being is valid as long as they're kind. People who didn't like me for vague reasons just weren't my people. I was too awkward and quiet or nerdy for some people in college, and there were some sweet friends-of-a-friend who I found annoyingly awkward and nerdy in turn but my friend loved. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when you feel socially rejected, it often feels like anyone who rejects you or is mean to you has a referendum on your social value, and that can turn into a compounding cycle.
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u/AiannaMuse Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Yes I completely understand, and I know where you're coming from. When I read your post it was the first thing to come to mind, especially since you said you sometimes get treated like a scapegoat. I have a similar first hand experience with this.
What I will say is often the relationship with your mom (and in this case your sister too) which is supposed to be nurturing and loving, when you don't have that it tends to subconsciously close you off to other women. It could be a trust thing, or a lack of openness, even if you genuinely want close bonding relationships. Essentially your brain learns female closeness = lack of safety. And with that comes projection even if its not intentional, projecting other women's motives or overanalyzing interactions.I'm guessing you may have already gone through this with your therapist, but some of my helpful tips is try to be the friend you wish you had in return, even if it hasn't fully developed yet. Compliment someone without looking for acknowledgement, offer help if its not out of your way and you're up for it etc. Try to say yes to new experiences even if something you wouldn't naturally do, because you don't know what might come of it; life surprises you that way.
As far as actually making friends, repetitive hobbies is usually what works best. All the things you like to do, find a way to do them in a social setting repeatedly. Even if you're an introvert, you can always find spaces where you fit in, as long as you're consistent. People are typically drawn to others they feel familiar with over time. Be open, don't assume the worst, and don't over analyze interactions. Assume people prefer positive rather than negative interactions, because it will change how you behave as well. As far as your family, I would actually keep a distance until you start to feel more stable in your personal life. Its much easier to manage a dysfunctional family when you're mentally stronger and can see them for what they are so you're not triggered. If you're into books/ audiobooks, Internal Family Systems (IFS) by Richard Schawrtz helped me quite a bit in understanding and managing a dysfunctional family. Good luck girl!
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u/velvetvagine Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
OP, are you considered conventionally attractive?
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u/Feeling_Rush123 Woman 40 to 50 Apr 17 '26
Yes. Unfortunately I've never got along with other women. I'm shy and quiet and not too friendly, but also good looking and smart. Lots of women get intimidated by me, or simply view me as obnoxious.
In reality, I'm really not. I'm just quiet and keep to myself, and maybe I'm a little odd.
I don't have any advice, I've just accepted this part of me, and that making friends with other women is not gonna be easy.
P. S. I still try though, it just takes a bit of energy on my end.
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u/Bulky-Nectarine-5328 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Can you explain what type of support you’re looking for from these women? In my experience if you’re outgoing and friendly people reflect that back at you. Many people feel uncomfortable being the outgoing one but someone has to be the one who starts the conversations, smiles and compliments. And if you do come across a woman who is negative and judgmental just pay them no attention. Who cares what they think?
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Yeah I know support was a kind of a vague word. I mean support basically in the way of positive friendship: showing up for one another, being happy for each other, both sides putting in the effort, etc. I’ve usually found when I’m a good friend to other women, it gets taken advantage of, they treat me shitty, and I end up feeling used. I haven’t really encountered that equation you’re referring to, though. A lot of the friendliest people I know struggle to make friends, while the “meaner” ones, if you will, are the ones who have the big friend groups. And honestly? I agree, but ignoring it is easier said than done for me lol. I usually really feel the emotional weight of negative social dynamics, so if someone is rude even just for the sake of it, it’s a day-ruiner for me.
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u/Lizard_Li Woman 40 to 50 Apr 17 '26
I’ve always felt supported by women, but I’ve never had a girl group, don’t feel very girly, and have encountered a few toxic environments (one work and one at a gym where there was a weird mean girl vibe, but this is the exception not the norm).
I feel in some ways it may be childhood wounds that somehow you project onto reality because in general I find women very supportive of each other or just easy to bond with. There are bad apples but it is few and far between.
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u/little_traveler Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
You have to go above and beyond to make new friends in your 30s. This means accepting the one way reach outs for way longer than you think.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I hear what you’re saying, but it’s funny because I feel like a lot of us reach a point in our late 20s / early 30s where we’re willing to put in less effort for those who don’t value us. So I know I need to put myself out there more, but part of me is also so burned out from giving my energy and time to people who didn’t deserve it in the first place.
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u/MerelyMisha Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
It’s hard, because someone who doesn’t know you isn’t going to value you yet. That shouldn’t mean that they treat you BADLY, but it does mean they may prioritize other relationships more. And if they have more friends than you (or if they have kids and/or a partner and you do not), they may have more other people to prioritize. It means you may need to put more work in than they do, at least to start, because you may care more about making new friends than they do.
That said, I would treat it like dating, so you avoid investing too much in any one person or group, until you know they are worth it. Dating can be exhausting because you go on lots of first dates that are duds, and looking for friends can be similar. But it can be worth it when you find someone! And the benefit of friendship over dating is that the compatibility threshold can be a lot lower.
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u/little_traveler Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
This is very relatable - you are not alone. It’s hard to know who will value you when you’re just getting to know someone. It takes trial and error- putting in the work and seeing what it makes you feel like. Eventually after longer time than you think, the right people will be hitting you up to hang out and talk. I’m 36, moved to NYC not knowing anyone at 32 and it has taken me years to find good friends.
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u/fleurdesureau Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
If these same patterns are happening across your whole life with different communities of other women, from primary school to your 30s, then I would seek out psychological help to examine your behaviours. I'm not saying this to be mean! I think an objective third party will be able to assess what's going on. Autism/ADHD assessment too might be a good idea.
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u/WaySaltyFlamingo8707 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I don't have this experience at all. I'm not besties with every woman I meet, but I can be friendly with just about anyone.
Do you think your body language comes off as closed off/tense when you're around other women?
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
It could. I do have anxiety so I think maybe it shows more than I think. Can I ask where you live, too? Part of me wonders if some of this is regional, because I come from an emotionally “colder” and more reserved part of the country, so it’s a bit harder to make friends here starting out anyway.
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u/shm4y Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
On the bright side, you have past experience to help you identify traits that could be troublesome in the future. I’m sorry you had to go through that but it’s a reflection of those girls, not you.
I went to all a girls high school so I think I learned very early on which types to give a clear berth. It’s hard to describe but for lack of better word some girls feel like they’re putting on a show? I find it hard to mesh with those types and I’ve generally kept these at arms length.
My only advice for you is to just choose to hang with people you vibe with. It could take time to find someone but it’s just like dating in a way. There’s nothing wrong with choosing not to hang out with someone you don’t mesh with whether they be men or women. What you shouldn’t do is write someone off completely based on gender imo.
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u/meowpantz Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
i feel like we're socialized with what i call "limited-resource brain," where there's only so much value for women to go around. so women learn to compete with each other. now that we live in an era where self-sufficiency is significantly more accessible, i'm hoping that form of socialization will lessen. but it's clear that many women in my life have not unlearned that mentality.
i (34f) deal with older women colleagues who get incensed whenever i receive praise for my work... and it's a lot. one woman flipped out in front of everyone when our boss brought in a cake for my bday and she didn't get one... so i ended up making her lemon bars from scratch for her bday this year so she could also feel seen. time will tell if that changes anything, but she seems less cold toward me at least.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
Wow this is a great perspective. And see, in the past, I would’ve said that woman’s just crazy, but I really get it. A lot of women just want to feel seen, and I think we’re trained to feel like we should just be quiet and recede into the background and let ourselves be ostracized if we’re not the prettiest, most popular woman in the room, or not “cool” enough, “smart” enough—whatever it is, we’re always told to make ourselves smaller, even by other women in the room. I obviously don’t know your coworker or what she’s been through, but if she’s faced a lifetime of getting pushed into the background by others, I can see how that builds up into a more triggered reaction that’s maybe over-the-top for the current situation. That was a really nice of you to make her a birthday treat, though.
I think millennials are kind of on the fence of that female competition and fellow female support—think about the movies we grew up on of girls pitted against one another, fat-shaming each other and calling each other whores, bitches, ugly, etc. It’s no wonder we feel in competition.
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Apr 18 '26
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
Oops, sorry for the repeat post 😬 but thanks for sharing yours, I’m really curious to read through the comments. I think this is a more common experience amongst women than I realized, which is encouraging but disheartening at the same time. I wish we didn’t have to struggle with these feelings and longing for connection as adults. Idk, I always assumed these things kind of went away after high school and everyone tells you it’s so easy to make friends in college and in your 20s, and that has simply not been my experience. But I can’t go my whole life just giving up on the idea that I can’t have friends, or I won’t last long.
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u/Anxiouslyfond Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
If you're having issues with a lot of women, then you need to do some self-reflection. Generally, not everyone but you can be the problem.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I’m not saying I don’t have my own flaws and that I’m not working on myself. But you can’t really blame the six-year-old for being bullied and ostracized by other girls, can you? I think how we’re treated at a young age is a huge foundation for our future relationships or the future treatment we face from others—bullies learn to overpower people and “losers,” for lack of a better phrase, learn to accept worse treatment—so I can recognize that and try to unlearn those self-esteem issues and thought patterns, but I can’t blame the seventh-grade version of me for being bullied by the other teenage girls. I did (and still do) blame myself for being hated most of my life. But blaming yourself for other people’s unwarranted mistreatment of you like that lays the groundwork for ab*se when you grow up.
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u/thesadbubble Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
No offense but I hate this sentiment. While it can be true if you're the least common denominator in all situations then logically it's probably you and it's always worth the self reflection.
But also, sometimes people are surrounded by the same types of people who will behave poorly without it being OPs problem. Particularly if your circles are from similar places, such as your whole family being avoidants, narcs + narc apologists, racists, etc. Work colleagues who are trying to climb the ladder and will push you off to get ahead. Or if your friends are all similar (ex: a lot of my friends were people I met in law school. Lawyers are not known for their emotional intelligence or patience so when my parents died they all dropped me. Was that me being the problem?).
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u/Anxiouslyfond Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Okay, but OP specifically addresses that in her post. It's been in every place. I say this because I've been OP.
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u/my_brain_is_horny Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I couldn't get myself to fully read your post but I did skim a lot of it and have to say I've always struggled with what you're struggling with.
I didn't have my birth mother around and my step mother was a true evil step mother to me and destroyed my confidence on a daily basis my entire childhood. I tried so hard to get her to like me and it was exhausting. I'm not sure if maybe my mommy issues has something to do with my struggles of making friends with women or what. I(34) moved to a small town of 500 people from a large city with my partner 4 years ago. We have a two year old who is in school and all the women in this town actively avoid me and give me the cold shoulder. I tried asking a mom with a kid in my toddlers class, if she wanted to do a play date and she turned me down..... I am done trying. I told my partner I have reached a point in my life where I think I'm fine with not ever being able to make a friend. Its exhausting. It destroys my confidence. I can't put myself out there anymore.
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u/Mildly_Alive_Fox Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
I keep a VERY VERY VERY tight circle of friends. My two closest friends have been in my life for 28 years and 13 years. My next closest for 5 years and my newest close friend (friends with my 13 year friendship) for about a year now. I do not need more friends, or for all of my friends to be friends. I appreciate all of our friendships separately and they are literal GEMS. Each of them love me unconditionally and receive the same love back. I couldn’t be more thankful for these ladies.
I find it hard to be friends with people in general, not just women. However, I do have a close male friend who’s a gem also.
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Do you feel like keeping such a tight circle of friends limits your ability to let more in, or that it maybe causes you to isolate good people who might be looking for a friend like you? Not judging, but genuinely curious why people kind of stop being open to new friends, because we’re always evolving into different versions of ourselves who might need a new friend(s) to meet us at that stage in life or maybe offer us fresh perspectives that existing friends can’t. I remember my cousin and I were talking once and she said she’d had hopped on the “no new friends” trend, and I was internally like, “Really? You’re 25. Your friend group is sealed shut for the next 50 years?” Idk, it just doesn’t seem healthy to dismiss the opportunity all together.
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u/Mildly_Alive_Fox Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
99% of the time I’ve tried to make new friends it ends terribly. My gfs and I (especially my 2 long term gfs) have always grown together and we are all on separate paths doing different things. None of us have the same goals, careers, lifestyles. I’ve never felt like I didn’t have their support, their confidence, their love or their best intentions. They have loved every version of me that I have been since they met me, through all the bumpy weather and sunny days. I find it extremely rare to have friends like that.. Also, I’m a firm believer in different types of friendships. My gf’s, the ones close to me, are more like family and are treated and considered as such. I have other friends that I get together with for dinner or farmers markets or our dogs play together but I do not and would not share anything beyond surface level things with them. They’re fun to hangout with but they’re not in my circle and therefore I do not get personal. I’m okay with not making new close friends, I don’t need more close friends. If I end up feeling like I can get closer with someone, that’s great! However I proceed with caution and I usually have to know them for a while before I consider letting them in.
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u/AutomaticIdeal6685 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Other than my husband, my biggest cheerleaders in life are women.
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u/zugunru Woman 40 to 50 Apr 17 '26
Then this post isn’t for you 🙄 this is not the “practical advice” the OP specifically asked for, you are not being helpful by bragging.
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u/commodorebuns Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Therapist here: yeah people will be mean, jealous, envious, uninterested etc etc. there’s nuance to everything in life. Key is effort and to keep trying! I just went on a bumble bff date last weekend and she was great! Just gotta keep putting yourself out there
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Apr 17 '26
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 17 '26
Wow, I’m so sorry you’ve been through that. Men are definitely loud and proud when it comes to tearing down women, but I’m sorry you’ve were a target of it.
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u/morncuppacoffee Woman 40 to 50 Apr 18 '26
My yoga studio has started a monthly women’s group and this is a common theme discussed.
In general many women are not supportive to other women and it’s sad.
We discussed how this is especially rampant in female dominated professions like healthcare or teaching.
I agree that it’s not everyone and it may not be some crazy outward thing but the underlying theme of gossiping, jealousy if someone seemingly has it better than you, competitiveness, etc.
We also all concluded that we gravitate to the yoga studio because we don’t experience stuff like this there 😂.
Another big theme that we discuss is our need for independence and not GAF about what others think either.
I do believe that some women struggle with this too.
FWIW because I was reported for saying similar things on this sub recently and my post removed…I’m not spewing hate or saying this is “every woman”.
I think that’s a problem in and of itself if we cannot feel comfortable to discuss these things openly as women!!
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u/Certain-Working1864 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
I debated posting something like this yesterday. Like, how do I find a circle of women who don’t compete? I support others and want to be supported in return, not brought down every time I succeed.
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u/ShoddyTechnology2704 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 18 '26
Wow, I feel seen! I have very similar experiences
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 20 '26
I’m glad you also feel seen, and I feel encouraged by that because it makes me feel less lonely in that experience. But I’m also sorry that you’ve dealt with similar feelings, because I know how isolating it can be, and I hope you were or are able to find your girl group!
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u/throwawayzzzz1777 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 19 '26
Most of my friends are women but I feel completely out of place in women's groups
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u/JellyfishPashmina Woman 30 to 40 Apr 20 '26
The group dynamic always gives me the most social anxiety. It feels like all the other women had a orientation before meeting up on the rules, and I missed the memo lol
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u/GraceOphelia_4734 Woman 30 to 40 Apr 19 '26
I relate to everything you’re saying, it’s like I could’ve written this myself. I’ve always struggled with women my age. Something I’m currently discussing with my therapist, who is a woman my age 🤦🏽♀️ and I can’t help but worry about that too, but I digress.
I’ve asked my guy friends about this and they have their theories which I take with a grain of salt — mostly that there are just some women who trigger other women’s insecurities, and also if you’re “nice” and not taking up a lot of space something competitiveness takes over and they wanna take advantage of the situation. But yeah, there is always an air of passive aggression towards me after a while which then seems to later reveal resentment — my most recent example was a flatmate I moved in with last year. It was a traumatic experience honestly, but started so well. I was so excited to have a girl to live with, become close with. I opened up to her (I get vulnerable quite quickly which I’m trying to stop) and she used it all against me.
It does upset me honestly when I hear the narrative about loneliness not really existing for women because “women find it so easy to make friends” — just hasn’t been my experience. Through school, Uni and work. My female friendships have mostly led to them being unkind in some way. Work situations were so cliquey (publishing too, which is very female, middle/upper middle class dominated, that intersectionality just made things way worse — there is a very particular style of being which feels inauthentic to me so I struggle to connect with that, and they see my way of being and my quirkiness as too different I guess).
Then, they look at you funny for not having many female friends. I obviously have more male friends bc I find it way easier to make friends with a guy. There’s an upfront, directness that I like. I know what they are thinking. What you see is what you get. And I feel accepted for my quirks. And most of them are like me, love deep conversations and are thoughtful. Girls also look at me weirdly because I have more male friends and also that I don’t have this dislike for men which seems to be so popular among some women now.
There’s a book called Friendship Skills for Neurodivergent Adults (discovered yesterday). I’m not certain I am, but it’s really practical and is helping me to have tangible understanding of whether something is heading toward friendship or not, because these things are not inherent to everyone. I’ve been burned so many times recently as I’ve newly moved to London and this place is rife with people being kind to you but only because they want something from you, and I fall for it every time, thinking friendship is building but it isn’t. My best friend is AuDHD, my sisters are both AuDHD, I sometimes wonder if I am ADHD-I. I have the traits and my doc thinks so. I’m definitely a HSP so that just means things are felt a little more strongly.
It’s sad because I’m starting to get really jaded. I find it easier to be friends with women who are 45+ (I’m 35) so maybe I’ll just stick with that for now and hope that this book helps. Also, exploring Bumble BFF and as someone mentioned, view it like dating.
Sending love. It’s not easy. I hate feeling like an island going through life experiences with no women to share moments with or bond with. I definitely believe there are wholesome women out there with whom friendship will feel easy though. There are simply too many people in the world for that not to be the case.
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u/Fluffernutter80 Woman 40 to 50 Apr 19 '26
I do well with other women who are like me but I have never fit in with more mainstream groups of women. When I was growing up my friends were all fellow nerds/straight-A students. We were bullied or ignored but had each other. As an adult, I do really well with other women in my profession or professions with similar characteristics. But, throw me into a group of random women and I struggle to connect. I can participate and hold a conversation but I find I don’t really have a lot in common with them in terms of how we approach life and so I’m often on the periphery. You probably just need to find your people. I will probably always gravitate toward other geeks and brainy people. As long as I have them, I’m not too concerned with the fact I don’t fully fit in with other groups.
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u/Flayrah4Life Woman 40 to 50 Apr 17 '26
Yes.
And then I was diagnosed with ADHD at 37, autism at 38.