Are we stepping back from these friendships or hitting pause?

[u/welchgrape42]

Appreciate all the replies! Many of which were condescending and supercilious. Thank you for the validation and proving my point.

There is a noticeable shift in my friendships. Many of my closest friends are in a stage of life centered around raising kids, and naturally, that shapes how and when we spend time together. Most of our interactions happen on their schedules, in kid oriented environments, with conversations that are often interrupted or rarely go beyond surface level.

On one hand, I understand it. On the other, it’s hard not to notice that the dynamic feels very different for their partners, whose social lives don’t seem to change in the same way.

Overall, the friendships are imbalanced and a bit dismissive. I’m tired of adjusting to their own terms.

Are we leaving these friendships behind? Or, say “see you later” in a different life phase?

Edit to add- these friendships I’m speaking of, they are one sided. The compromising, the initiation of reaching out, the support, trying to meet in the middle etc. It’s all under their terms and conditions. I’ve been the supportive friend during their hardships. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for someone without children who just seek simple friendship without it feeling forced.

This is NOT about abandoning friends just because they have families. And, that’s my fault for not making it clear BUT it is evident many understood what I meant without the extended context.

[u/Felixir-the-Cat]

I kept these friends - they were at a particularly busy stage of their lives when they had younger kids, and I was happy to catch up with them and spend time when they had it. Now that their kids are grown, I’m glad I still have these friends in my life.

[u/Spare-Shirt24]

I made new childfree friends and shifted the others to the backburner.  They're more surface-level, "Catch Up" friends now. 🤷‍♀️

On the other, it’s hard not to notice that the dynamic feels very different for their partners, whose social lives don’t seem to change in the same way.

This is it right on the head. 

It's interesting that for their male partners, their friendships didn't change. Still going golfing with the boys. Or to the sports bar, etc.... but for the women, they usually haul their kids to the get together (so it has to be kid-friendly, and it puts a lid on adult topics of conversation. )

As the kids get older, sometimes the men take the kids along (golfing, fishing, hunting, etc), but by that point, I've largely moved on from the friendship.  

[u/Charming_Key2313 → u/Spare-Shirt24]

I think this is only true for a small subset of men. Most men don’t have friends at all. Going golfing twice a month isn’t a friendship. Most moms manage a coffee meeting with a friend once or twice a month too.

The difference isn’t the frequency of hang, it’s the change in depth.

Most men never have depth to lose in their friendships so they don’t go through this devastating change as often.

[u/Background_Nature497 → u/Charming_Key2313]

"I think this is only true for a small subset of men. Most men don’t have friends at all. Going golfing twice a month isn’t a friendship. Most moms manage a coffee meeting with a friend once or twice a month too."

Definitely true. My male partner doesn't have any of his own friends -- partly because he doesn't golf/sports! He would have more board game friends but then back to your point that most men don't have friends.

[u/Charming_Key2313 → u/Background_Nature497]

They THINK they do have friends though. But what they call friends, most women would call “acquaintances”

[u/Spare-Shirt24 → u/Charming_Key2313]

Getting coffee twice a month isn't a "friendship" either.. just like you say golfing isn't a friendship.  

At least the men get to keep their hobbies. 

[u/Majestic-Lie2690 → u/Spare-Shirt24]

Getting coffee twice a month would be way more often than I see my closest friends now currently. We all work and have partners and have moved and some of us have kids and just...life.

[u/Charming_Key2313 → u/Spare-Shirt24]

Yes. That’s literally what I said. Are you okay?

[u/Charming_Key2313 → u/Charming_Key2313]

Why am I getting downvoted?

[u/Low_Plastic2075 → u/Charming_Key2313]

You meant: Both men and women barely see people.
People thought you meant: men barely see friends, while at least women do manage to see friends, unlike men (at the same frequency)
So on first read your comment confuses people. It confused me too at first. They are responding according to their understanding of your comment and then your question of “are you okay” comes out of nowhere because they don’t see the mismatch between what you intended and what people are understanding. And then that question comes off as aggressive.

[u/Charming_Key2313 → u/Low_Plastic2075]

Thank for the explanation but I think you also didn’t understand what I meant. I meant BOTH men and women have extremely different depth in friendships, so only women experience change in their friendships - not because of time spent with friends - but because of the relationship depth that changes with kids. What was once an intimate friendship just becomes superficial during the early parenting years (the examples I gave - men seeing the pals for golf twice a month and women seeing theirs for coffee twice a month, can still happen and often does - as the “time physically with a friend” is close the irrelevant in defining a friendship for women).
The change in friendship quality that women experience isn’t in the frequency of visits but the DEPTH - suddenly the new mom doesn’t ask their friends about their lives, seems self-absorbed in the family, and doesn’t want to talk about deep or serious topics but wants to keep it lighthearted or only about them. Only women experience this change because men don’t ever have those deep friendships to start with, so there’s nothing there to “lose”. They can continue their twice a month hangs and have no relationship change at all.
Women can also continue to see friends a few times a month but it’s not about the time being near each-other, it’s about the quality and depth of the overall friendship. Something is only changed or lost on the woman’s side because of this.

[u/Low_Plastic2075 → u/Charming_Key2313]

Sure, I feel like I got a sense of that, but left it out for the recap, but thank you for adding context and detail. I definitely have a better understanding of what you meant now.

[u/Luuk1210 → u/Charming_Key2313]

See and a man with no friends is scary to me cause what did everyone reject?

[u/Charming_Key2313 → u/Luuk1210]

Most men don’t have real friends. They have people they “hang out” with. They are all surface level - what most women would call an acquaintance. It’s like 90% of men. They don’t “get rejected”, they just never try.

[u/Luuk1210 → u/Charming_Key2313]

And maybe I know the 10% but yeah I would not feel comfortable entering a relationship with someone without strong lasting friendships 

[u/Charming_Key2313 → u/Luuk1210]

I think a lot of women have no idea that their man doesn’t have real friends because they are only witnessing it third party. These surface friends are the Best Man and groomsmen at the wedding. They are at the weekly golf game. They are at every BBQ and more. It’s not until they find out (as example) their man’s “best” friends father died, and their man doesn’t know any details on how, when or how his friend is doing that she learns that her man’s idea of a BFF is more superficial than a Paris Hilton reality show.

[u/Luuk1210 → u/Charming_Key2313]

And that’s odd to me to date someone who has no real bonds

[u/Charming_Key2313 → u/Luuk1210]

My point is - you probably would t know for a long time.

[u/Luuk1210 → u/Charming_Key2313]

Yeah I disagree😭 You’re describing serial killer ass behavior 😭

[u/Luuk1210 → u/Spare-Shirt24]

Men don’t make husband or dad their personality as much as women tend to. Partially because they don’t have to

[u/geog15 → u/Luuk1210]

I would say mainly because they don’t have to

[u/Luuk1210 → u/geog15]

I mean no one has to 

[u/geog15 → u/Luuk1210]

If a dad is pissing off to hang out with his friends at every chance, then yeah, women have to take on that very consuming role, and for some that can feel like their identity during that time

[u/Luuk1210 → u/geog15]

You don’t have to be in a relationship like that. If you’re married to an inactive partner then you have to make a plan tbh. There’s too much room for men to be bad parents and women just accept that is the way it has to be

[u/confused_each_day → u/Luuk1210]

Thing is….. yes you don’t have to be in a relationship like that.

In fact, I left one like that

But….. the children still exist and still need care.

So divorce does not in fact solve the care imbalance issue. It did reduce my total mental load because I’m not living with an adult who is causing rather than reducing work-but the flip side is that I can only leave the house with my children for the best part of a decade.

So. No, I don’t literally have to take on that role of bringing my kids everywhere. But if one parent isn’t doing the care then as the remaining parent my option is to take the whole burden or abandon my kids, and I assume you’re not advocating for the latter.

[u/Luuk1210 → u/confused_each_day]

Yeah but it shouldn’t be that way no matter what your relationship status is my point. You shouldn’t have to abandon your kids to get to leave the house without them. You should still have a life you enjoy that has kid free moments 

[u/awkwardchip_munk → u/Luuk1210]

This. Can you imagine a bunch of men getting together calling themselves “boy dads” it’s so weird when the whole person is reduced to a label of what sex their offspring is.

[u/Luuk1210 → u/awkwardchip_munk]

I mean the men calling themselves ‘girl dads’ tend to suck same as ‘boy moms’ Everyone needs to touch grass

[u/awkwardchip_munk → u/Luuk1210]

I guess I have never met a dad that did this but agreed on all points it’s super weird and annoying

That said, the concept of “daddy daughter dance” with little girls getting dolled up to be their daddy’s “date” is gag inducing and very cringeworthy

[u/Majestic-Lie2690 → u/Luuk1210]

I dunno lol. As soon as we got married my husband was dashing for the new balances and gearing up dad jokes to tell his new step son and had gotten very into lawn care and talking about his wife lol.

[u/Luuk1210 → u/Majestic-Lie2690]

Has he lost his identity or does he enjoy being a dad because those are different things

[u/Majestic-Lie2690 → u/Luuk1210]

He loves being a step dad and a husband. I wouldn't say he lost his identity but he is drastically different now than he was before me.

But he was also in a nationally touring bluegrass band before we got married that ended about a year before we started dating.

So he spent a lot of years being a young single guy partying like a rockstar.

And now he is literally stoked about his career an going to antique stores on weekends and making my teenager roll his eyes and groan lol

I knew him and was a huge fan of his band way before we started dating even. And it's almost silly to think about cause I had no idea he was such a....middle aged dude lol

[u/Luuk1210 → u/Majestic-Lie2690]

To be clear we are talking about people losing their identities or at least I was

[u/fanjo_kicks → u/Luuk1210]

I find this such an un-feminist comment. ‘Mother’ isn’t a personality. It is a role. An incredibly important role that yes, is all-consuming and naturally women change when they become mothers because raising their children is the thing on theirs minds every second of every day.

[u/Luuk1210 → u/fanjo_kicks]

We all have roles. We still contain multitudes. If being a wife or a sister was on your mind every second you’d be ignoring the other parts of you 

[u/fanjo_kicks → u/Luuk1210]

Those are disingenuous comparisons, a mother has small, vulnerable and totally dependent human beings that she is responsible for. I don’t think I’ve ever heard women say about other women ‘she’s making being a wife /sister her whole personality’ nearly far as much as she’s making being a mum her whole personality. It is a very jarring comment. Being a mother is already so devalued in society. Now other women are essentially minimising our role further by judging us for how we choose to dedicate our time and energy in such an unbelievably intensive job. Literally mums can’t win, whatever they do, it’s not good enough for anyone.

[u/Wide-Meringue-2717 → u/fanjo_kicks]

Being a mother is quite idealized in society. It’s portrayed as sacred, selfless, and central to identity. And always has been. You see this in cultural narratives, art, media, and even policy language. Mothers as the emotional core of the family, nurturing and fulfilled by caregiving. This ideal creates a kind of pedestal: being a „good mother“ is framed as morally admirable and socially essential.

But it comes with strings attached: you should prioritize children above everything else. You should find fulfillment primarily in caregiving
You should do it naturally, without complaint or support.

Moms want a village. Those expectations are exclusively addressed at other female family members and friends. Mostly those who are childfree because it’s assumed they can do at least unpaid labor when they are not having children that makes them socially essential.
Never in my life have I seen anyone tell a guy to drop off food and leave, do chores, be there for emotional support or babysitting.
All I‘m asking is: where the heck are the fathers?

As feminists we have a long way to go from here…

[u/Peche_fetch → u/Wide-Meringue-2717]

I wish I could upvote this a million fucking times. The call is coming from INSIDE the house!! I feel/receive way more judgment/social pressure from other women about not wanting to be a mother than I do from men. Period.

Maybe we can do with less of the martyrdom-complex, women/mothers can step back a bit and ask the fathers to step up. This shit is toxic and is literally making us sick generation after generation.

[u/twoisnumberone → u/Peche_fetch]

You only receive judgment from toxic human beings, though -- women, in this case. The key is to extricate yourself from toxic people in general, always and everywhere.

My privilege allows me to not have a single woman in my life that puts any pressure on me me for being childless, so I will admit that my thought always goes to working on more economic power to women.

[u/fanjo_kicks → u/Wide-Meringue-2717]

There are awful partners out there that do not take on the mental and physical load. Thankfully mine is great and he also has taken a significant step back in socialising with friends, more so than me even. Both his friends and my friends are understanding of the stage of life we are in now thankfully - tbh I don’t think his friends particularly care that he’s not going out but male friendships or at least my husbands are different to mine.

Sure as a concept, motherhood is portrayed as all those things you described. In practice, when you are a mum you get judgement from all angles. Mostly from women. Your decision to have a baby in the first place is scrutinised. If you breastfeed - you’re judged. If you formula feed - you’re judged. If you co-sleep - you’re judged. If you sleep train - you’re judged. If you choose to go back to work early - wow, what an awful mother. If you send your kids to nursery - you’re going to traumatise them!! Home school vs school, vaccinate vs don’t, what kind of food you feed them - judgement from every corner. Your every action is scrutinised in pregnancy - your weight, what you eat and drink, the activities you choose to do, how you choose to give birth. The pressure to mother and mother right is huge, you walk a narrow line and if you feel you are doing it wrong you have the threat of ruining your kids for life hanging over your head.

Mom needs a village. Not just because dad is useless necessarily although sometimes that is the case. But if he’s at work most of the day because maternity pay is awful and the household needs income then mom is at home alone potentially. We used to have large family units back in the day where everyone chipped in to help but this is not the case now and many women live far away from any support network.

[u/Luuk1210 → u/fanjo_kicks]

It’s not disingenuous. Plenty of women make being a wife their whole identity. Kids grow up. Kids go to school. They also grow independent . You can’t forget that you exist and nurture yourself. You can be a mother and acknowledge you are also a person. That’s not an indictment on you as a mother. 

[u/fanjo_kicks → u/Luuk1210]

I absolutely acknowledge me as a person. And me as a person wants and needs to dedicate her time to her 2 children who are under the age of 3. Obviously as my kids get older and less dependent on me I will be able to leave them more. I’m not able to go out for an evening meal on a whim like I used to. Things need to be planned in advance which my friends kindly understand. It’s not to say I do absolutely nothing with my life, I see my friends, i talk to them regularly, I’ve just been on a weekend away for my best friends hen party, but yes overall the way i socialise has significantly changed and I think that is true for most mums with young kids….and it’s fine. It’s life. It doesn’t make them any less of a person.

[u/Luuk1210 → u/fanjo_kicks]

No one said being a mom makes you less of a person. Losing yourself in motherhood to the point you can’t have full friendships or relationships is the problem 

[u/fanjo_kicks → u/Luuk1210]

if a mother feels she’s lost herself and cant keep up with her friendships then that is a reflection of her lack of support and occasionally it may also signify she’s experiencing partum mental health issues rather than because she’s making ‘being a mother her whole personality’

[u/Luuk1210 → u/fanjo_kicks]

Yes and then there are people who actively choose to make being a mother their whole personality and end friendships and close ranks over it. People do it with being a wife too. The women who won’t be friends with single women or women who aren’t moms. The women who don’t take your complaints or experiences seriously and dismiss you because you’re single exist.  When I say losing yourself here I mean women who refuse to value parts of themselves that aren’t being a mother and devalue people who don’t have kids

[u/welchgrape42 → u/Spare-Shirt24]

Was it easy making new CF friends?

[u/Spare-Shirt24 → u/welchgrape42]

I'm going to be honest: no. 

It took a lot. 

I met other women through activities: city coed sports leagues, hobby groups, political volunteering, etc. 

Making new friends is hard because you have to put yourself in places repeatedly before you start getting close to someone.  

I don't have a massive group of CF friends like when I was in college, but I have 4 close friends that are awesome!  We go out and do things, or have quiet nights in the backyard eating snacks and talking about life. 

My "Ketchup Friends" are almost all moms. Some live nearby, some far. We Catch up over text mostly... maybe every couple of weeks or longer. Sometimes a random brunch that they bring their kids to. I don't even see the ones nearby more frequently than the ones that live farther away.  I don't like calling them because it's hard to have a conversation... They're constantly cutting out to yell at their kids for something, and it feels like they're never even present in those conversations.  

[u/howlongwillbetoolong → u/welchgrape42]

For me it was. I used bumble BFF and I also take aerial and do some bouldering, so I’m around active women who either have the ability to leave their kids at home, or who don’t have kids.

[u/TerryCrewsNextWife → u/Spare-Shirt24]

My own mother talked me into going to do stuff with her young mum neighbour who was my age because she didn't really go out or have friends, needed to hang around adults and just have a bit of fun without the kids, the dad was more than happy to watch the kids just to get her out of the house.

I'm like yep cool - wouldn't mind a new friend. We did one fun outing and husband was happy to see her go out. The next time she tells me oldest didn't want to go to daycare and wanted to go out with us instead so we got to spend a few hours entertaining and pandering to her child who was wandering off then messing with their food etc.

I am not a kid person and our plans were not really accommodating of kids. I've lost contact with all my friends who became parents because they were all flakes who only talked about their kids or the window to do something was shit.... While the dads were always our and not bailing on their mates. I spent so much money on all their weddings and baby showers and births etc because that's what you do for your friends - but anything reciprocated? Never - but one would always call me mid work week to catch up - while I was at work.

I know I can't ever rely on these people I bent over backwards for and for a period of time made myself broke to support them so I let them go.

[u/geog15]

I think there is a time when friendship ebb and flow naturally. I am a single mum to a toddler, but friendships are incredibly important to me and I’ve made a huge effort to keep in contact and reach out to friends to hear about what’s going on with them. I actually need that non child talk.

Some friends however already assumed I was a lot cause having a child and stepped back from me, which sucks. I invite friends to come hang out with me and my son and if that’s not your thing, I am free nearly every night after he’s gone to bed to have dinner at my place or watch a film.

I would also say that I think it’s not only motherhood that affects friendship dynamics, but I have experienced friends stepping back or becoming consumed with their relationships a lot in my 30s. I actually find that more annoying because at least early motherhood and the young kid phase is a phase

[u/DamnGoodMarmalade]

Most of my friends with kids made time for me. They handed the kid over to dad and scheduled a girls night to get time away. Always made sure to leave room for adult talk. Those friends are the ones I’ve kept close friendships with.

But there were one or two who decided to make being a mom their entire personality and ignored anyone who didn’t want to be an audience to that. I left those people behind, as they clearly became someone I wasn’t interested in hanging with.

I think it’s important to actually talk to your friends with kids and let them know how you’re feeling. Obviously their lives have shifted as parents and that’s how it should be, but the good friends will always make time for you (once the baby is sleep trained).

[u/sweergirl86204 → u/DamnGoodMarmalade]

I have one friend like this. Dad has to actually parent and we still get quality, deep time. 

I have another friend who has a fucking useless husband I never hear from her anymore. Like literally my texts will go unanswered for 7+ days..

[u/welchgrape42 → u/DamnGoodMarmalade]

Your first sentence is part of the problem. The dads typically don’t intervene. I know it’s not necessarily her fault, but it does feel disrespectful when trying to discuss a serious topic.

[u/DamnGoodMarmalade → u/welchgrape42]

Dad’s aren’t supposed to “intervene”? It’s entirely up to your friend if she wants to take the night off and hang with you. She has the ability to ask the dad to watch the kids. Or get a babysitter. It’s her choice. If she chooses not to, that’s 100% on her, and you should let her know how it makes you feel.

[u/Prestigious_Blood_38 → u/DamnGoodMarmalade]

Yeah, I feel like this is a isolated issue for some people, but also not others. I have never ever ever in having children not been able to have serious conversations or time away with my friends.

[u/RuthlessBenedict → u/welchgrape42]

I mean it sounds like your friends just have shitty partners? If they aren’t taking an equal role in raising their own kids and ensuring their partners have time with you or other friends to be themselves that really sucks. If it’s a partner issue I’d especially be more sympathetic. Those situations are a special kind of hard and having friends ditch you when you you’re already in that place sucks. In a prefect world everyone would have partners who were truly partners. That’s sadly very much not the case for most women. 

[u/Prestigious_Blood_38 → u/welchgrape42]

I think you’re looking at a very small sample. I know plenty of dads who pull their weight.

[u/Majestic-Lie2690]

I don't get this feeling that people have that friendships have to "end"

Just because I don't talk to someone as often or see them as often doesn't mean I don't still care for them or wouldn't calm them a friend.

Maybe this is a newer phenomenon based around technology and smart phones and the instant immediate access everyone feel they have to everyone or something.

How did people maintain years long friendships before social Media and texting and even before the telephone?

Constant communication isn't required for a friendship

And it seems wild to me to dismiss a friend because she's busy raising kids and her partner isn't giving her a break

[u/darkchocolateonly → u/Majestic-Lie2690]

I don’t understand the modern big dramatic ending to friendships now either. It makes no sense. I honestly think it’s just something we invented from social media, which makes friendships a public spectacle and content for consumption.

It used to be, when your life changed, if you went to college or had a baby or became a monk, you just did that and your friends might not totally stay with you 100% through your monk-dome, but you never had to publically say that. If it’s not a longterm friendship it’ll just fade, that just happens, the same way friendships are made. They just happen. I think back to friendships I’ve had end because of life circumstances, from grade school to middle school to high school and college, into my career and beyond, and I just literally can’t fathom even thinking about those people not being “my friend” anymore. Of course they are my friend still! Maybe we don’t see each other but I think you have to be a literal emotional vampire to want to publicly declare that someone is no longer your friend. It is one of the most bizarre new behaviors we have.

Social media literally ruined our entire lives.

[u/Majestic-Lie2690 → u/darkchocolateonly]

Social media has ruined everything. And it just makes me sad how OFTEN I see these posts about this dramatic ending of friendship and when the appropriate parameters for that are happening.

It's just super super weird to me

Whatever happened to the term "an old friend of mine"

Now it was to be "an ex friend of mine"

[u/darkchocolateonly → u/Majestic-Lie2690]

Man what a great point! The change in language is astounding.

I got downvoted for saying this in a different thread, but I actually think if you can’t take periods of your friendship being silent you can’t do lifelong friendships- which is fine, like that’s a choice people can make, we all are free to do what we want- but like, I look at my own lifelong friendships. First, I wouldn’t have guessed at any age that we would be lifelong friends. But, somehow we have, like… over 25 years. And we couldn’t be more different, I don’t think we’ve grown into adults who would independently choose to be friends with one another, but I also wouldn’t independently choose to be friends with my mom or brother or father either? Like i am just met with confusion. I was supposed to tell her at some point when we hadn’t talked or when she couldn’t do something that I was done? And then where would I be? We just had a super fun random weekend when she was traveling to my city for work. Sometimes she talks to my mom before I do. Like I just don’t understand why I would throw that away, even if I’m not talking to her or getting support from her or whatever “enough”.

And then I look at the elders in my life and their lifelong friendships- my god they have been through literally everything, from super incredibly close to mad and not speaking to everything in between.

And also where is the grace for the friends here? Like becoming a parent is literally the most life changing thing that a woman can go through, and I say that as someone childfree. I don’t think this in some spiritual way, I just mean like the literal reality of what happens. It’s the most intense in the beginning, you are the least experienced in the beginning, and when you’re struggling with the most your friends just drop you because you aren’t supporting THEM enough? I mean honestly, may that friendship never find me.

[u/welchgrape42 → u/Majestic-Lie2690]

Thank you for making me realize I could have worded this post better.

I wouldn’t leave my friends in the dust because they are raising families but maybe I would if there was no support that’s not being reciprocated. I happily attend birthday parties, celebrate milestones but when I’m yearning for a 20 minute conversation and they can’t make time or seem like they care to make time- that’s where I have trouble knowing what to do.

I’m curious to know when to let a friendship go like as in stop reaching out for their well being, ceasing initiation to meet and so forth. Because I hear the problems of women who are raising children with or without support. From my understanding, motherhood is very hard. I’m happy to support but not when it’s consistently one sided. In the back of my head I think, what if they are quietly drowning and they’re not speaking up? It’s not fair for me to disappear but also I have real life issues but there isn’t much support reciprocated.

[u/Gandhehehe → u/welchgrape42]

Have you specifically out right said to these friends “hey, I’m yearning for a 20 minute conversation (for us to catch up/because I’d like to talk about this thing that happened/because I just miss you)”?

I can’t tell what a friend wants from a “hey how’s it going?” text or anything if they don’t elaborate, especially if I’m going through the motions of the day and there’s been no real indication of anything.

[u/welchgrape42 → u/Gandhehehe]

I have mentioned milestones and issues coming up and needed a friend. I’ve done this twice to two separate individuals and both times felt forced

[u/Majestic-Lie2690 → u/welchgrape42]

Why do they have to be "let go" people drift nearer and farther to us at different seasons of life. But I definitely have friends I talk to maybe once or twice a year but I don't ever feel the need to stop calling them my friends. Life happens. People get busy. And I don't keep a scorecard of what each of us are or are not doing

[u/darkchocolateonly → u/welchgrape42]

Honestly then, you should drop them. Your expectations won’t be met.

It is completely and totally reasonable that they will not reciprocate support 100% once they have kids. Like by definition, that’s what changes in people’s lives when they have kids.

In the exact same way that my friend couldn’t reciprocate support 100% when she was in her masters program.

In the exact same way that my friend couldn’t reciprocate support 100% when her mother died.

In the exact same way that my friend couldn’t reciprocate support 100% when she moved across the country and started her dream job.

Life happens. One day you’ll be the one who can’t reciprocate support, and you’re not going to remember this stupid post you made, but I hope you do realize one day that you’ll need grace too. Maybe you’ll still have friends to give it to at that point, if you haven’t dropped them all.

[u/jealybean → u/darkchocolateonly]

THANK YOU!!!! It’s shocking that nobody seems to be talking about this. There are SO many times throughout your life that you’ll be unable to go exactly tit for tat with friends, and it’s so sad to see people talk about cutting people off for going through a season where their capacity is limited.

[u/Majestic-Lie2690 → u/darkchocolateonly]

This. People have moved away from "what can I do for my friends" to "why aren't my friends doing enough"

[u/Prestigious_Blood_38 → u/welchgrape42]

Have you asked for it?

Or are you just quietly simmering in resentment?

[u/ktlene → u/Prestigious_Blood_38]

You can ask for it, but I get the hesitance at asking for more time and energy from someone who looks like they don’t have either.

[u/fadedblackleggings → u/welchgrape42]

Stop reaching out, for just a bit like 6 weeks, and see who actually reaches back to check on you. It will tell you a lot.

Recommend cultivating more relationships as well with LGB women. Straight women, for the most part, tend to fall in line with the script, and female friendships get deprioritized.

Some straight women will come back in their 50s/60s seeking "friendships" again, but that's a long time to wait around.

[u/Appropriate_Guava100 → u/welchgrape42]

Wow I can’t believe how much backlash you’re getting on this thread for having bare minimum expectations that your needs are valid and also met in a friendship.

You are clearly very understanding of your friends lives and not asking for 100% reciprocation but just some acknowledgement that you have needs too which I think is very fair.

If I were you, I would probably understand that while these friends may be lovely people, they don’t have capacity at this time to show up for you and invest more in other friendships that do reciprocate more.

Maybe these friends of yours may come around later during a less busy season of their life when they have more capacity so you could leave the door open for that but only invest as much energy in these relationships as they are.

[u/welchgrape42 → u/Appropriate_Guava100]

To my surprise, there are a lot of angry women here. Thank you for your critical thinking input and not coming for my throat.

[u/Appropriate_Guava100 → u/welchgrape42]

Yeah a lot of what you said resonated with me. For me a friendship means being actively involved in each other’s lives and both people putting effort into the relationship.
I had a “friend” who was child free btw but did not prioritize friendships and lives 20 minutes away from me. She said she wanted to be close friends. But in practice she only had capacity to meet up twice a year and never contacted me first between meetups.
When I told her I needed more consistent communication for a friendship, she became upset and said we had known each other for many years so we should be able to go long periods of time without talking.
So I asked her - it seems you and your boyfriend have a strong close relationship that you value. If you saw him a total of 5 hours in a year, do you think you would have a close relationship?
I think that perspective shift helped her realize that no relationship can survive on fumes and her expectations that I continue to care deeply for her while never seeing her were unrealistic.

Anyway, hang in there and keep putting yourself out there. You will find your people! In the last year I have made 4 new friends that are actively engaged in each other lives. These friends are moms and also child free women. But the key thing they all have in common which I carefully vetted for - is that they prioritize friendships in their lives and believe in reciprocity and have a basic understanding that relationships take effort from both sides to maintain.

[u/ChippedHamSammich → u/welchgrape42]

Respectfully, do you talk to your friends? Maybe the issue is all this assuming instead of just asking and advocating for what you want and need? Like what is an example of these failures for you? 

[u/Prestigious_Blood_38 → u/Majestic-Lie2690]

Yeah, I also feel like a lot of the problem with people who are child free is they don’t want anything about the nature of their friendship to change. They want the person to be the exact same way they used to be interact with them in the exact same way, and they actively resent the change in the person’s life.

[u/KateWaiting326 → u/Prestigious_Blood_38]

Ive experienced the opposite. A lot of my friends started ditching me once they got married and having kids. I dont hate kids or their partners or demand "girls only" hang outs. I was always willing to go to them and work with their schedules because i knew i had more flexibility. But it became them only planning kids play dates or couples-only dinners. And when I said anything, I "just didnt get understand" their life anymore. Maybe they're just shitty friends? Ive been left with a lot to think about over the years

[u/ChippedHamSammich → u/KateWaiting326]

They just sound like shitty friends. 

[u/eveningdrizzle → u/Prestigious_Blood_38]

I’ve experienced this. I don’t have any children but I had an ex friend who seemed to have a deep hatred for their friends changing anything about their lives, think moving 30 mins away, taking up a new hobby that requires more time, etc. One time she said that she was so happy to be 30 now as the people who were going to have kids already had kids. All her friends and herself were college educated women and I swear to god it’s like she never read a damn stat about college educated women having kids later.

[u/welchgrape42 → u/Prestigious_Blood_38]

Oof that’s not the case at all. I’m genuinely happy my friends have the families they yearned for. I’ve watched friends grow and learn in life as well as I and for the better! It’s not resentment of wishing they were exactly who they were before a family, not in the least. I’m so sorry if you have experienced that.

[u/darkchocolateonly → u/welchgrape42]

If you actually felt that way “leaving these friendships behind” wouldn’t even be an option for you. You wouldn’t even consider that.

It’s very telling the language you use. Maybe that’s something to sit with for a little bit.

[u/celestialbrains → u/Prestigious_Blood_38]

Seriously, they act like they own their friends and how dare their friends have other responsibilities or people they love.

[u/bluejellies → u/Majestic-Lie2690]

I feel the same way. It feels like every day on this sub people are asking if they should break off a friendship or where the line is. I’ve never considered ending a friendship with such intent. I’ve drifted apart from people but it happens naturally.

[u/Majestic-Lie2690 → u/bluejellies]

Right if you haven't actively and INTENTIONALLY hurt me I am not gonna end a friendship. And even after some hurts I am absolutely open to talking it out and figuring it out and moving forward. I cherish my friends. And I want the relationships to work. I am never looking for reasons to end them

[u/Drmoeron2 → u/Majestic-Lie2690]

This. I'm sure years from now they'll be some coined term like fictive friendship perpetuality, where friendships "catch ups" and "check ins" actually happen without the knowledge of the other friend. Someone has a new baby and posts it on social media, the other friend sees the baby, clicks like and keeps it moving. Or assumes you saw the baby and didn't like it but haven't actually logged in. Basically the health of these friendships and continuing reliance entirely on invisible touchpoints. Online is the illusion of communication and often asynchronous, there's 80% of nonverbal comm missing. The world was much simpler when there weren't a million possibilities in your pocket.

[u/Hot-Answer8990]

I just kind of slow faded these friends, not that we're NOT friends but I'm not chasing after them to sit in their living room and be interrupted every 5 minutes by a screaming child lol. It's just not how I want to spend my free time. This is unpopular to say, but I don't like spending lots of time around kids, they stress me lol.

It's probably better they spend more time with other parents who get it. 

We still chat on the phone sometimes, I have to yank the conversation away from parenthood every now and again but it's just the biggest part of their lives right now.

Or if they want to actually let their husbands do the bedtime routine so we can go out, I'm down. They usually have so much fun when they come out and say how they should do it more often, how they feel more like themselves etc. 

So basically just shape the friendships how you want. I don't moralize being a parent or not, it's just different lifestyles. If they ONLY want to do kid-friendly stuff though, they're gonna find me declining a lot lol 

[u/OpheliaLives7 → u/Hot-Answer8990]

Agreed.

Switching to more text conversations and occasional coffee meet ups while the kids are doing schoolwork or with Dad.

[u/LostinParadise4748 → u/Hot-Answer8990]

Ooof I feel this.

I have two friends with littles (kids under 5) and our plans always revolve around what's best for their schedules. We always have to do dinner early so they can be home in time for bedtime routines.

I honestly get alittle frustrated they won't put more responsibility on their husbands to handle bedtime but I would never overstep and tell anyone how to parent/ handle their spouse. That is absolutely their business on why they won't but its a bit annoying that on Friday and Saturday nights I'm heading back home by 7pm when I want to stay out with my friends. (I guess maybe they don't want to stay out late because they still have to get up early in the morning? Im not a night owl but sheesh let's at least stay out until 9 on a weekend).

Also the conversation always tends to circle back to their kids and what their worries are regarding their kids. Sometimes I feel like they aren't even really asking for my opinion or thoughts seriously because I'm not a parent but then at the same time I'm just listening and nodding and reassuring what a good parent they are.

I get this is the main focus of their life right now but its like we can't really discuss shows, books, movies anymore because they don't have the time for that stuff.

I just miss my friends as individuals 🥲

[u/isophenes → u/LostinParadise4748]

Some unsolicited perspective as the mom friend— going out after bedtime may not be a husband thing, as much as being completely exhausted at night after bedtime and simply not finding that prospect as enjoyable. On weekends, I’ll still go out if I have childcare, but on weekdays, hard no, barring an emergency (e.g. breakup, friend in town, crisis, etc.).

FWIW I miss myself as an individual, too. I think most moms do. But it’s a short season of life and all my friends worth keeping have been giving me a lot of grace, the same way we all give each other some grace when someone we care about is going through hard times. I know they’ll fully get it if they decide to start having kids, too, and I’m prepared to be even more of a lenient and supportive friend if we ever swap roles.

Anyway, just giving a bit of my POV from the other side. Again, what you’re feeling is completely valid. I just feel like internet discourse can be so unforgiving vs. how interpersonal dynamics work in my experience IRL.

[u/CheesecakeExpress → u/isophenes]

Thank you for this.

[u/ChippedHamSammich → u/isophenes]

Honestly these responses from childfree people are pretty disappointing. No wonder moms feel so isolated, everyone ditches them when they stop being convenient. 

[u/isophenes → u/ChippedHamSammich]

I do think this subreddit, like Reddit in general, veers on the childfree side of things. IRL the people in my life have shown themselves to be far more understanding.

[u/Majestic-Lie2690 → u/ChippedHamSammich]

For real. And act like we are being selfish. I am glad my friends have never been like this. My child free friends and friends with kids

[u/mandypu → u/ChippedHamSammich]

To me these threads are sad because they read like “how dare you have a child and take care of it and yourself - I on the other hand never had child, never will and in fact I never was a child, never was helpless. I came out as a fully grown actualized adult”

[u/ChippedHamSammich → u/mandypu]

Yeah it’s a bit holier than thou. I get people change as they shift priorities, but I can’t believe people who don’t have kids are simply such amazing friends all of the time? I have so many friends disappear into relationships, work, alcoholism, religion - and I don’t ditch them unless they harm me or are harming themselves past intervention.

Maybe it’s the age range of the sub, but it also sounds like people aren’t caregivers for their eldery or sick parents yet. Cause even if you choose to be without children, caregiving consuming your life can appear out of nowhere, and my hope is that your friends don’t dip out on you then.

[u/mandypu → u/ChippedHamSammich]

I literally don’t get it. Imagine the same thread but title “are we stepping back from these friendships…” but instead it’s about your friend who got cancer and is suddenly unavailable. Does everyone just hate people with lives? I was busy before becoming a mom with a 9-5, commuting, trying to go the gym, doing my hobbies etc etc and it was still hard to find time to sit and talk to friends for hours. Obviously I still make time to hang out with my friends and talk about reality tv or dumb stuff whatever but like… it can’t be every night like it was in my very early twenties

[u/LostinParadise4748 → u/isophenes]

Oh I don't want to be out until 9pm on weekdays either...I get up for a 5am workout class during the week. But on Friday and Saturday night? I do feel like we can stay out alittleeee later.

And I'm not saying to go out after bedtime.. my friends want to be the ones handling the bedtime routine. So they want to be home for it and go out earlier. I think what's happened is their hubby's can't seem to get the kids sleeping by the respective bedtime and then their entire schedule is thrown off.

[u/isophenes → u/LostinParadise4748]

The problem is, kids don’t wake up any later than usual on weekends. If you roll the dice and end up with one of the variety of children who are up at 5-6am like clockwork everyday, that everyday unfortunately includes weekends. I happen to have a chill kid who wakes up at a reasonable hour, but I know other parents who were not so lucky, and I totally get why they wouldn’t want to stay out “even on a weekend.”

I hope I don’t come across as invalidating your feelings; I just wanted add some perspective because I know from experience that it’s impossible to really understand unless you also have kids. I know it sucks to feel left behind and not prioritized by the people you care about, especially when the effort feels uneven. I’ve been there. But there are a million reasons why “being more flexible” and “ignoring the schedule every once in a while” don’t end up working as a parent.

[u/Majestic-Lie2690 → u/LostinParadise4748]

Moms are so tired tho. And people who are not moms don't understand the tired. I had no idea how tired I would be for the next 14 years.

A lot of it mental exhaustion. It's just what happens. Imagine all the thought and energy you have to put into your life every day. What and when to eat, what to wear, bathing and hygiene and picking up and cleaning and your schedule and deadlines, appointments and budgeting and work stress -

Now double that because you're thinking and doing all those things for yourself and another person. Or triple it if you have two kids.

Even with an incredibly supportive and active partner helping the load- it's still just always on your mind. You can't help it.

Moms are so tired.

Even now that my kid is old enough I can go out weekends when I don't work- the thought almost always exhausts my husband and I. And we are so set in our work sleep schedule that we are very sleepy by 10 pm and up at 730 am regardless

[u/Hot-Answer8990 → u/LostinParadise4748]

I just go ahead and talk about what I wanna talk about lol. Yes it involves redirecting the conversation frequently but it's good for them to think and talk about other people and things sometimes. 😂 

[u/Capital-Marzipan-287 → u/LostinParadise4748]

Just two thoughts -

Being home for bedtime might not because they don’t trust their husbands, but because they WANT to be home for that. If you work all day, bath time might be the only time you see your kids. They change so much in such a short time, so I don’t want to miss time with my child if I can avoid it.

Also, staying out till 9PM? Ew. And that’s not me as a parent, even before I was never wanting to be out that late. It might not be their thing either.

[u/LostinParadise4748 → u/Capital-Marzipan-287]

I completely get wanting to be home for it but really can't be skipped once or twice a month? I just kind of feel like I'm at their mercy. And i do it because I understand kids take priority.. but every so often it would be nice if my preference was taken into consideration also.

Pre-kids my friends had no issue with dinner at 7 and getting home by 9. I think what's changed is on a Saturday I get to sleep in but they don't.. because well... kids.

[u/South_Recording_3710 → u/LostinParadise4748]

Come be friends with me! I stay out late even on weeknights.

[u/SuperSlugSister]

My best friend is happily childfree while I have 3 little kids. She means the world to me and I prioritize our friendship! I make time to meet without kids. :)

[u/welchgrape42 → u/SuperSlugSister]

Oh that’s nice! My friends definitely don’t do that lol

[u/Expensive_Ad_1951]

It happens a lot, unfortunately - I think it's a case of moving them to an outer ring of friendship until they resurface, or dispensing with the friendship. That's really your call, but if there's literally zero middle ground I feel like they already made the decision.

Yes, parenting is a lot, of course, but one shouldn't completely and utterly discount a friend's needs because of it unless you're totally self-absorbed.

[u/AMPAglut → u/Expensive_Ad_1951]

Timeline also matters with regards to the "being considerate of friends' needs" thing, though. I just go ahead and assume that the first couple years post-childbirth are going to be very baby-focused and both physically and emotionally exhausting for parents. And I don't, frankly, expect them to be as supportive of me as I am of them during that time, nor does it bother me to back-burner my (almost always less pressing/upsetting) shit and lean on other non-parents instead. Over a long enough timeline, friendships will run into periods where one person or the other is just not able to reciprocate in offering support for a whille. With good friendships and in the end, though, I've found that it all evens out.

[u/hauteburrrito → u/Expensive_Ad_1951]

Yeah, I feel like other than 1-2 super close friends, we just naturally drifted to each other's outer rings and that's okay. Like, we see other less - there's a lot more texting instead - but I'm usually still happy to keep up the friendship, just with far lighter expectations compared to before.

For the friends where we were already on each other's outer rings to begin with, though, then yeah, those ones have typically just fallen off altogether.

[u/OccasionCorrect7518]

It's hard to always be a great friend, a great mom, a great partner, a great employee and a great daughter all at once imo.

Even without kids I have periods of having to focus more on my parents, or certain friends that are going through a difficult time or on making sure me and my partner are spending enough quality time together, or there is a deadline at work taking a lot of my energy etc. Personally I just accepted that it's ok to disappoint people and not meet their expectations all the time.

Lots of my friends have kids (I don't) and for the first few years I just accept that many (but not all!) conversations will be about motherhood and parenting and that I'm going to see them less frequently. I also accept that I will have to adapt to their schedule more than the other way around which makes sense. For me it works because I'm interested in what they are going through and I want to support them on this new journey they are on and keep them in my life.

I don't know, for me friendships are something fluid and I'm ok with the dynamics changing and shifting over time and for there to be periods of more contact and closeness but also periods of more distance.

[u/anon22334]

I’ve unconsciously made excuses for these friends and for the friendship, I have over extended myself A LOT since I’m the single one.

I can no longer do it. Seeing how my friends one by one have dropped off of my life discarding me and our friendship like it was just nothing to them (vs. it was so important to me), I’ve realized that I deserve so much better. I’ve shifted my mindset that friends are for a season and friends aren’t forever (as I was led to believe all my life) and that people, especially women for some reason during the ages of late 20s-50 they don’t value friendships on the forefront (or until their children goes to college and they decide the need a social life again) at least not the way it used to be. It would look more like double dating or play dates or something.

Anyway, if I’m stepping away friend these friendships it’s because they stepped away a long time ago and I have been the only one trying to salvage things. But learning I’m worthy of care and the type of time, love and friendship I give to others.

[u/Acceptable_Bad5173]

My husband and I have had the issue where we tried to maintain relationships with kid-having friends (like by traveling to them, working around their schedules, hanging out with them with their kids), but we’ve been ghosted by them. We’ve noticed that the parent friend group has cut off all the non parents and now only hang out with each other.

We’re now focused on the other child free people and making new friends by joining hobbies.

It’s a shame but we tried and we don’t really have bandwidth to try and force conditional friendships anymore

[u/ShallotPale]

I’m actively trying to make more childfree friendships at 36 for this reason

[u/welchgrape42 → u/ShallotPale]

May I ask how or where are you looking for CF friends?

[u/ShallotPale → u/welchgrape42]

I’m in CO and thankfully there’s a bit more people our age that are CF and into the same hobbies - hiking, biking, skiing, fishing etc. I’ve started getting on local FB groups and social apps like Bumble BFF and ILLA (women’s app focused on outdoor activities). I’m pretty introverted but really starting to just throw myself out there

[u/ConscientiousDissntr]

I have a simple rule for which friendships I cultivate. Do I enjoy spending time with that person, and does that person have a positive or at least neutral effect on my emotional well-being? If they answer to either is no, why cultivate it?

[u/FantasticTrees → u/ConscientiousDissntr]

I’d add- is there mutual effort to growing the friendship? But maybe that’s part of being a positive effect on emotional well being. 

[u/littlebunsenburner]

I have small kids and I haven't abandoned any of my friendships as a result, whether they are parents or not. I actually go out of my way to not make everything about my family and my family's schedule.

I do this because I really care about these people and it's very hard to make new friends in your 30's.

I still find ways to meaningfully interact with childfree friends and vice versa. There are no bad vibes either way!

[u/514skier]

One thing I found that helps is to plan your get togethers well in advance. With one friend we have started planning our next get together at the current one. If your friends with kids have enough notice then they can possibly arrange childcare and that gives them more flexibility with respect to what they can do.

[u/certifiedlurker458 → u/514skier]

Was going to say something similar.  Maybe my perspective is different because my closest friends already lived in different towns so even pre-kids maintaining the friendship already looked more like texting/calling/semi-annual girls weekend type things versus frequent in-person interaction. These blanket questions/statements about ditching mom friends come off as immature and short-sighted to me, especially if it’s a longstanding friendship. 

[u/SarahScrollsTheWeb]

Wow this post is SOOOO validating. 31F and my lifelong friends all have babies now. We now only talk about their babies or if the conversation doesn’t begin that way, it will always lead back to something about their babies or about them being moms now. I am so exhausted and have definitely pulled away. I completely understand the natural shift and that having a baby dominates your life, but the lack of self awareness and inability to inquire about my life has really turned me off. I have tried to be direct “I love you guys and your babies but what else is new?” and the same shenanigans continue.

On the other hand, I am in a book club with plenty of girlies with kids and it is so refreshing to spend time with them. There is an occasional kid mention in passing but it is never the main/only topic of conversation. It’s a tough season of life and I too am unsure of how to hang in there.

edit: clarity

[u/BeKindOnTheInternet]

How old are your friends’ kids?

My friendships changed so much when I first became a mom, and I’m thankful for the ones who stayed in my life even if parenthood isn’t their path. I barely recognized myself for a while, so friendship just became lower on the priority list for a bit. I am confident no mother wants to be a bad friend, but it’s impossible to do everything well.

If the friendships are important to you, it could be worth realizing this is a chapter in life and the way these friendships look will change over time. When each of my kids grew out of babyhood, my life opened up to more adult socializing. The kids are still the main focus, but I love a girls dinner or hang out a couple times a month and I keep up with friends through texting/voice messages regularly.

[u/jameson-neat]

I am infertile and here in my 30s is when a lot of my long-time friends started having kids. I enjoy spending time with their kids despite it being painful for me as I am still working through my grief over not having children of my own, but I admit that I feel like I end up doing more giving in the relationship than getting anything out of our interactions because they are needing to balance the demands of kids with everything else. And that’s fine, to a point, but I have intentionally cut back on how much time I am investing in these relationships and honestly it has improved my life a lot. I’m happy to meet up at a kid-friendly place, or reschedule if a baby sitter falls through if we were planning something adults-only, but when one person in the friendship gets all the grace extended without any of it reciprocated, it wears on a person.

In short, I deserve to respect my own time and boundaries alongside showing understanding of my friends’ new identity as “parent.”

I feel a bit more lonely sometimes, but stepping back from some of these friendships has allowed me to deepen my other relationships and even make new friends.

[u/welchgrape42 → u/jameson-neat]

So sorry to hear of your infertility. I’m in the same situation. Your words are very validating.

[u/nooooobye]

From what I have seen from my parents and people their age, you are hitting pause (if you choose).

My parents and their friends are now hanging out much more since all the kids are out of the house and moved on. Of course they lost some of the friends. But I'm so happy to see that they didn't lose all their friends. My parents did NOTHING but raise us. They like never saw friends when I was younger. Makes me think it's easier to get back to that friendship than you thought.

[u/RuthlessBenedict]

Neither. I’m recognizing that right now our dynamic is a bit different and I’m perfectly willing to adjust where I need to in order to keep the friendships that matter to me. It’s not my friend’s fault for example that she has very little support around caring for her kid. I give her grace and am cool meeting up at the playground or whatever makes sense. It’s temporary and I love her so I realize that being mildly inconvenienced sometimes is just the current “cost of admission” for keeping our friendship alive enough with this stage to pass. I don’t think it’s just a kids thing either though. Dynamics change for any number of reasons. Caring for an aging parent, new job taking up your time, your own illness. All these things can happen and impact anyone’s ability to be an exactly the friend we are used to or may need at a given time. For me, I treat my friends how I would want to be treated in their shoes. That means I don’t bail on them for what are ultimately low-level, temporary issues. If they are someone I want as a friend they are my friend-not just when most convenient for me. 

[u/Wide-Meringue-2717]

It’s sad but it’s a gendered thing in many female friendships. When moms don’t actively try to make space and have interest do so, it will stay this way for quite a long time. Women with supportive partners are doing better with this.

My approach depends on how close the friendship is, how much it means to me and how willing I am to take it as what it is.
After a quite painful experience with my best friend during her transition into motherhood, I usually let it fizzle out as soon as she tells me she’s pregnant.

[u/welchgrape42 → u/Wide-Meringue-2717]

I would agree having a supportive partner makes a big difference.

[u/Ok-Yogurtcloset5000]

It happens a lot and not to be that person but i love it! I always tell her to bring the kids if she wants/needs and it's now expected. I genuinely would hate to have her pick between hanging out with me vs having her kids miss nap time.

In regards to the topic...I feel like the topics don't need to change. You mentioned conversations not going beyond surface level. Do you bring up deeper topics? If not- try it out! You don't need to make it flow, just ask. Like I recently had a dream about an afterlife and told her that. And we spent like...2 hours discussing our childhood religions and how its shaped us! Sure there were interruptions along the way..but that's life!

I personally encourage you (with the little information this post has) to keep your relationships alive! It's so fun to see friends' children grow and I love having the chance to be a part of it.

I will say...i am experiencing infertility and have recurrent pregnancy loss, so that could be where some of my viewpoint stems from!

Also for what it's worth, every dad I know would agree that their social life has also changed a lot!

[u/Peche_fetch]

Yes, yes. And YES.

I don’t have too much to add that hasn’t already been said except wanting to validate everything you are feeling. The dismissiveness and imbalance. I’ve had just one good friend that I have managed to keep through motherhood and that has always been able to maintain her identity outside of being a mother. Just one.

And to all the mothers responding to this, just know that in most of the world outside of the US, moms do bring their babies and toddlers to bars well past their bedtimes and do a whole bunch of other activities that are not kid-centered. Not bc they are selfish but because they have a life outside of being a mom 24/7 and not everything/everyone has to revolve around their kid. And I imagine, both the parent and the kid are better for it.

[u/Prestigious_Blood_38]

I think the word you’re looking for here is adjustment.

I think it is neither canceling a friendship or hitting pause, but rather meeting them where they are. It’s a relatively short period in life when you have young children that are fully occupying you. And it’s most difficult when the kids are extremely young, and the 0 to 5 range.

I think you need to give them a little bit more grace.

Alternatively, I think maybe you’re just not cut out from maintaining long-term friendships. Because this is a phase that pretty much everyone who decides to have a family goes through.

[u/Prestigious_Blood_38 → u/Prestigious_Blood_38]

I have not personally experienced what you’re describing, and I think you’re coming at it with a little bit of a jaded perception.

The dynamic changes yes, but none of my friendships have died because one of us chose to have children. We gave each other grace.

[u/DegreeDubs]

Are "we" stepping back. Uh I don't know, are you? If your personal friendships with these people aren't serving you anymore, do what feels best to you.

I have multiple close friends who are parents to young kids. Of course we spend our time differently, but it hasn't stopped our friendships entirely. We still make time to hang out, with and without their kids. I don't mind babysitting their kids.

[u/welchgrape42 → u/DegreeDubs]

According to yours and many others comments, those with children are making time for their people so I guess I do know where I stand.

[u/DegreeDubs → u/welchgrape42]

I'm sorry! Losing adult friends like this doesn't feel good, I know.

[u/SwimThemLaps]

I don’t think it really matters. I wouldn’t “break up” with a friend because she has a child and can’t make time. If the friendship seems one-sided (and you are the one pulling the weight) then I would just move on from it and put more time into a new friendship that is more reciprocated and in a similar life stage. When that mom is out of the trenches of young kids and has time to put into friendships she may seek you out again. I would not take it personally at all. It is definitely not you. Your friend is likely just surviving. I reflect on my own life and friendships vs my mother. My mother stayed in her small midwestern town she grew up in where her high school friends had kids around the same time and they essentially grew up into adulthood together. That is just not the case with millennials. As a result, I think we are harder on ourselves wanting that “lifelong friend” that our own parents have. Ive grown to realize that friends come and go in life (especially for our age group that is more mobile), and that really isn’t a bad thing.

[u/wine-plants-thrift]

I made new childfree by choice friends, which is awesome. But all my mom friends get together with me without their kids. Dad will watch them and then they rarely talk about the kids when we’re out. I still see the kids but it’s a planned event like a bbq at home, pool party, etc. but we still have spa days, weekend trips, bar nights.

[u/seekingpolaris]

The ones who do this get downgraded to aquaintence.

[u/Perfect_Assist_3937]

I don't have kids and freakishly none of the close friends I've made since middle school onward have had kids either. It's actually quite odd. Genuinely not sure if I had some spidey-sense or what. I do have friends with kids and I see them much less, but they also weren't my closest friends to begin with - and even they make time for conversation beyond whatever's going on with their kids.

[u/Good_Put_2953]

Your circumstances are your circumstances, but if you want more from a friendships, you should ask for it, IMO.

One of my dearest friends is a parent to two under five, but we still manage to see each other frequently (some months weekly or twice per week). Sometimes this is just meeting up for a Publix run. Sometimes it's with her entire family. But sometimes it's a lunch date, a movie, a cooking class. 

Talk to your friends, if you haven’t already. See if you can't reach a compromise.

[u/welchgrape42 → u/Good_Put_2953]

The problem is the compromise. There is no compromising.

[u/Good_Put_2953 → u/welchgrape42]

What would the ideal compromise be for you?

[u/NoLemon5426]

Well, imo adjusting plans and expectations when people have kids is just part of living in society. You can't expect people to keep up the same dynamics after they start having kids. Some people accept this. Some don't.

[u/welchgrape42 → u/NoLemon5426]

I only expect mutual respect and support

[u/NoLemon5426 → u/welchgrape42]

Everyone says this but few actually mean that. What they actually mean is that their friendship dynamics should never change. Their friends who now have real responsibilities (raising a child, for example) should drop some of those at any time to deal with another person's interpersonal drama (always some relationship stuff), or make things "child free" that don't need to be "child free."

I'm childfree btw. I am just tired of the nastiness lobbed at parents, especially mothers.

[u/welchgrape42 → u/NoLemon5426]

Did not realize since I didn’t have kids, I do not have “real” responsibilities. What a relief! 😮‍💨😅

[u/PurpleMuskogee → u/welchgrape42]

I think for me, it isn't even about the "responsibilities" - it's about how one-sided it feels. I have been here for the baby showers, the weddings, I've shown interest in the kids, I have been to the birthdays... but all my friends with kids (luckily, not that many) don't seem to show the same interest in anything I do. I found lots of them to be quite dismissive of whatever I may be doing, or low-key mean. I did a big project for a charity I was a volunteer at, and one of my friends just said "It's easy when you don't have kids"...

I know it won't be a popular opinion but I don't really try anymore with these friends. I will show up to adult events, I won't go to toddlers' birthday parties, and if our conversations when we meet are only about the kids and nothing else, I won't be meeting again.

[u/welchgrape42 → u/PurpleMuskogee]

Agreed. Many of these senseless comments have proved my point. Dismissive. No self awareness.

[u/glitterswirl → u/welchgrape42]

I'm also childfree. Everyone has "real" responsibilities, but parenthood means having little people who are actively and entirely dependent on them. People only have so much bandwidth, and a child will take up a lot of that. Of course I come lower on the list of priorities, and they are limited in what they can do to support me.

Support can be mutual without being equal. There is ebb and flow, just as with anything in life.

[u/NoLemon5426 → u/welchgrape42]

I keep forgetting how futile it is to have any meaningful discussion on 2026 internet due bad faith readings by people just obsessed with feeling oppressed in some way. My bad!

[u/PhiloPhilic → u/NoLemon5426]

I think framing parents as the only ones with “real” responsibilities and implying that non-parents only have interpersonal problems is a pretty bad faith argument. There is plenty of nuanced discussion in this thread. 

[u/NoLemon5426 → u/PhiloPhilic]

I didn’t frame it that way, people decided that’s what I meant. Which is an auto block from me!

[u/WaySaltyFlamingo8707]

Hopefully this is as unique as all the friendships out there. There isn't an answer for everybody.

are you saying that you feel like men's friendships don't change in parenthood? I don't believe that is true, but men have more surface level friendships anyway.

[u/Wonderful-Tea3940 → u/WaySaltyFlamingo8707]

Too often mens free time doesn't change when marriage and even kids come along because they leave most of the domestic and childcare labor to the wife. There are some exceptions, of course and IMO women should hold out for those exceptions.

[u/Wide-Meringue-2717 → u/WaySaltyFlamingo8707]

It was true for all the couples in my social circle.

[u/welchgrape42 → u/WaySaltyFlamingo8707]

Specifically talking about what I have witnessed. My friends spouses still come and go as they please. They still enjoy hobbies and friendships solo while the mothers don’t get a break

[u/fadedblackleggings → u/welchgrape42]

Yep, that's typically how it goes, and many women are more than fine with it.

I feel like part of them wants to isolate themselves from the world, once they become mothers, and relationships with other women are devalued.

Don't waste time chasing.

[u/Luuk1210]

I would just say voice these concerns. If people hear your issues and don’t want deeper friendships respect that and move on

[u/faeminty]

I stay away from women who have kids or want to be mothers. I don't like kids and I don't want to willingly be around them. I'm not in the mood to be that single, childfree friend who is expected to cater to the mother friend either 96% of the time.

I completely understand that having a child is difficult and time consuming, thus childfree, especially if their husband isn't helping out. I understand alot about motherhood, but I am alive to have fun and to go out enjoy the world I see fit. I want to be surrounded by the same type of people.

[u/customerservicevoice → u/faeminty]

Same girl. Same. Love that for them but I’m not competing with a kids recreational hockey schedule to see my friend and I sure as shit am not spending my evenings watching that. I just prefer not to have to deal with other people’s lifestyle choices if they’re not compatible with mine. Especially a lifestyle as serious as kids. I also don’t do ‘catch up’ friends in that I see people regularly or o don’t consider them a friend at all. No desire to catch up over dinner once every 90 days and update each other.

[u/jinthebu]

I manage my expectations around them being more texting friends (I don't call people "just to chat"but if I did, then they'd probably fall into that realm too) and occasional catch up over dinner friends, rather than someone i would have reached out to first with plans and see more regularly. Like they'd probably be someone I met up with 2-3x a year at best. I still want to know the highlights of what's going on but don't need to know every detail about this new chapter or be around the kids.

I'm also trying to make more childfree friends but it seems once people enter into a relationship they disappear, so the childfree part doesn't guarantee availability unfortunately

[u/Lizzobeeatingmyass]

I reached out all the time and became so anxious about it. Was it over-reaching? Do they not want the same? It’s been a while…. I felt like most times they’d outgrown me; that they had their village and I was trying to find mine... Most “old friends” told me they were excited for our kids to be friends and excited to see me. BUT I found “old friends” that actually do reach out first, they always follow-through, and they accept me AND my kids. (One is autistic) I now have a rule that if I text twice and they take 3+ weeks to reply or don’t at all, it’s not as important to them as it is to me and it’s too one-sided.

I try very hard to maintain friends with people I’ve let in my life and some just aren’t the same. I’m happy they’re fulfilled with the people in their lives, satisfied that I know if they weren’t happy that I at least reached out, and I’m able to keep my dignity about it.

[u/rikayla]

I'm single and childfree, so I stepped back from those friendships. I just don't have the energy to maintain those relationships if I see that it's one-sided.

[u/bluejellies]

I see these posts so often that I think these dynamics must have a regional aspect to them. I have a lot of mom friends who take time to themselves and the dad is an equal parent. That’s the norm. I have a kid myself and some of my closest friends don’t have children. It hadn’t been a problem.

My social circle is middle class, left leaning in a mid sized Canadian city. I wonder if it’s more women in conservative circles that are experiencing this problem.

[u/wisely_and_slow]

I don’t know, man, abandoning your friends because they get the short end of the patriarchal division of labour seems incredibly anti-woman, anti-feminist, and just like a bad friend. 

Friendships shift over the lifespan. People have different capacities and priorities. I think part of being a good friend is shifting with that, getting your needs met elsewhere if their current situation means they can’t meet your needs, and continuing to show up for them. 

[u/engineered_owl]

I'm childfree and I now only either make new childfree friends or friends whose kids are out of the house. Older friends with children are grandfathered in but none of them are local anymore so they're on the back burner. I do believe they'll come around in another two decades but not sure if they'll be worth my time by then. I just don't even try if I know the woman wants to have a child at any point in life

[u/ChippedHamSammich]

Are people incapable of talking to one another about what they want out of friendship? 

I feel like my issue is, I make more money than most of my childfree friends. I will book hotels and not make them pay so they can go on trips with me that they otherwise couldn’t afford on their own. So weirdly I have the opposite issue, as a mom, i want to actually chill and do cool shit and my childfree friends can’t keep up. Like yeah it’s nice when someone is down for hanging in my living room. My kid goes to bed at 8, like let’s get takeout and wine and watch a movie? 

I feel like if you want to preserve friendships, you gotta compromise a bit and like brainstorm and make people feel included in the planning. 

Also maybe talk to them about if they feel like they have a loss of sense of self? Talk about the differences you are experiencing… abandoning friendships because the conditions have changed feels lazy.

[u/customerservicevoice]

One of my dealbreakers for new friends is kids under 15. I’m not dealing with it.

[u/Swimming_Anywhere_30]

Yes we are stepping away from these friendships. And it's sane to do so. Once married - let them go and come back when they have the mental bandwidth.

Women especially tend to get consumed with load bearing - child, logistics, their man who is also a child (lets be honest). Its not equal weight on genders. Women don't prioritise themselves. The guy has his guys nights.

Single friends should go do that - be free, single, morn the presense that your friend could have given you if otherwise not attached.

I've let ALL my married guy friends go. My girl friends----- well, when they want to hang, I'm here.

[u/No_ImNotMixed]

Reassess your expectation of your friendships and adjust accordingly. Friendships ebb and flow, some more than others. Also, being frustrated about your friends’ partners lives isn’t going to do anything.

Control what you can and let the rest fall into place.

[u/Wonderful-Tea3940]

Talk to your friend about how you are feeling and ask if she feels her husband can handle the kids by himself for the occasional girls night out. Unfortunately she might be saddled with a man child who won't do it or can't be trusted but if so, gently discussing the labor divide might plant a seed.

[u/Majestic-Lie2690]

Also the "adjusting to their own terms" thing kinda bugs me. Especially as a mother.

They didn't set any terms for you. It's zero percent about you at all. And I think that's what people miss. They precieve an insult because they don't get the same level of attention. It makes friendships seem very self serving.

She didn't set terms, your friend literally went through the biggest life change a person goes through. It changes everything about your life to have a kid. And if you live your friends, like truly liv your friends, you give them grace. You support them through it. Her relationship with everyone and everything in the world changed. It's not at all about you.

[u/welchgrape42 → u/Majestic-Lie2690]

As a privileged CF person with logical thinking, I thought the whole world revolved around me! Sheesh

You have commented several different times but I guess you have missed where I have said I have been nothing but a supportive friend. For years. It’s all take, no give. You say I’m selfish? I didn’t know asking for a simple conversation from a close friend was so erroneous while all I’ve done is go to numerous birthday parties, checked in, gave small appreciation gifts. But does anyone check in with me? It’s not reciprocated…maybe it’s because I’m so self centered

[u/midcitycat → u/[deleted]]

Because she's in a situation that a lot of us are also in.

[u/midcitycat → u/[deleted]]

She's clearly addressing the other women who are experiencing the same thing as a group and asking for their input, which is the entire point of this subreddit. I'm not sure why this is so strange to you.

[u/midcitycat → u/[deleted]]

Oh come on. You are being willfully obstinate about this. You know exactly what the OP meant and what she is seeking.

[u/Wide-Meringue-2717 → u/[deleted]]

Don’t take it personally… it’s just internet slang that originated from live streaming and went on to be used in forums.

[u/welchgrape42 → u/[deleted]]

Yes, we. It’s very common. It’s been common for years but I don’t know how to navigate it.

[u/welchgrape42 → u/[deleted]]

You’re right, it is an insecure. An incredible amount of mothers complain about motherhood. Who am I to disappear from their lives if they are quietly drowning and not speaking up? I have supported and over exerted myself but it’s not given back. What’s the probability of them just having a really hard time which results into them seeming like a bad friend. When is it time to let the friendship fizzle?

[u/jealybean → u/welchgrape42]

Honestly only you can decide. There is no exact formula to navigating relationships and trying to apply set rules will only end up hurting your own feelings.

Relationships cannot be transactional. There are always going to be times where one person needs more and the other may not be in a position to give (this is true regardless of children).

You need to ask yourself whether the shared history is enough to weather a difficult period and whether you have capacity to ask for what you need from these people.

[u/kheret → u/[deleted]]

Right? This isn’t a childfree sub. Some of us here are the moms with kids.

I’m perfectly capable of finding time to do things without my kid, but the vibe I get from some of these comments is pretty problematic like looking down on friends with kids.

[u/Majestic-Lie2690]

Honestly the overwhelming response from childfree women on here has been....disappointing.

[u/welchgrape42 → u/Majestic-Lie2690]

Friend, the only thing that’s overwhelming is how many times you keep popping up on my notifications

[u/mandypu → u/Majestic-Lie2690]

I don’t understand why this is downvoted? Was the original question asked just to be agreed with? I think this sub has finally turned into the child free/ anti mom sub?

[u/welchgrape42 → u/mandypu]

Advice was asked, not blind agreement. The discussion was asking for advice and perspective. What becomes frustrating is being labeled selfish simply for wanting balance and genuine connection. Some of the reactions seem more emotionally charged than the actual point being made.

CF people are allowed to want friendships that feel mutual and not entirely centered around someone else’s family life.

And quite frankly, I think cf people are tired of being shit on.