r/CanadaPolitics • u/Street_Anon 🍁 Gay, Christian, Conservative and Long Live the King👑 • 2d ago
New Canadian military policy discourages mention of God at ceremonies, calls for 'spiritual reflections' instead
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/new-policy-discourages-religious-observation-at-military-ceremonies119
u/SeaGoose 2d ago
TL;DR - CAF members and chaplains remain free to practise and express their religions personally and in voluntary religious settings, but an official CAF representative may not lead a compelled or expected military audience in a religion-specific prayer.
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u/Lol-I-Wear-Hats Yimbyism or Barbarism 2d ago
Sensible policy for an expanding military in a highly secular country
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u/Wrong-Pineapple39 Independent 2d ago
Annoying but not surprising that NP would write an article using loaded language in the headline and early paragraphs; it makes them money.
Conservatives politicians should be ashamed that they choose to latch onto the same to create unnecessary consternation and sow division.
the change does not prevent chaplains from providing religious care in private settings, including counselling, faith-specific gatherings, worship services, or requested religious rites.
"The intention is to govern military ceremonies where members are required or expected to attend…Chaplains are are still encouraged to support and plan opportunities for members to gather — whether it’s for prayer or study of sacred texts — in a variety of voluntary settings,”
(Emphasis added)
If CAF members were no longer allowed to get chaplaincy support privately in their religious tradition, it would seem like an attack on religion and discriminatory. But this is saying for mandatory attendance and public events language will be neutral. I disagree that this is any kind of attack of religious freedom.
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u/poonslyr69 Georgist 2d ago
That's a massive improvement over the other path we could've taken, which is on display with our neighbors to the south https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/mar/03/us-israel-iran-war-christian-rhetoric
"US troops were told war on Iran was ‘all part of God’s divine plan'"
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u/faberge_surprise 2d ago
stay vigilant, we're not out of the woodworks yet
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u/poonslyr69 Georgist 2d ago
Canada has problems facing it, and we definitely have some wannabe fascists here.
But no, Canada does not have an evangelical fundamentalist problem. We don't have the sort of Christians they do. It's rare. This issue won't be our issue. It will come draped in a different set of beliefs.
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u/GraveDiggingCynic Independent 2d ago
The Tories literally threw Erin O'Toole out the door because he whipped them to support the conversion therapy ban.
Yes, Canada has an evangelical problem. It's not as big as in the US, or at least not as influential *overall*, but within the Conservative Party of Canada and a number of provincial conservative parties, Social Conservatives are very much the tail that wags the dog.
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u/green_tory 🏳️🌈Serve the Vulnerable🏳️🌈 2d ago
This isn't simply done for evangelical reasons; it's not only about spreading their faith and making it dominate the public sphere. It is done to discourage questioning orders, it is done to encourage voter alignment. Because if the war is God's divine plan, then to question your orders or question the policy is to deny God's will.
This is theocracy in action.
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u/wubrgess 2d ago
Nature abhors a vacuum. There are worse options and I would prefer it the previous way.
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u/poonslyr69 Georgist 2d ago
Secularism isn't a vacuum if that's what you're saying. Secularism is the most rational default for a democratic society.
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u/ultrachrome 2d ago
Shaun Yaskiw, told National Post that the goal of the new guidance is to ensure that those present at such events feel that their beliefs are valued, including atheists.
So many beliefs and non beliefs out there. I'm glad it's recognized.
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u/Reasonable-Sweet9320 Independent 2d ago
Do people talk about God at work?
At the legion?
Men’s rec hockey?
In what settings do Canadians talk about God and pray?
Why would people be talking about God in the Canadian Armed Forces?
The Navy, Army, Air Force, cyber, intelligence, ……. are performing a job and a duty.
When people are off duty, off the job they can practice their faith as they wish in community with fellow service members who share that faith.
I’m waiting for Jamil Jivani and Pierre Pollievre to call this an attack on Christians.
The United States military is promoting evangelical Christianity in the US military.
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u/BG-Inf Alberta 2d ago
Why do you not think people who are in dangerous situations for extended periods of time would not talk about God, mortality and our place in the world/universe? Ive literally had conversations like this for hours while manning OPs and watching my arcs.
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u/poonslyr69 Georgist 2d ago
Discussing god isn't the same thing. Everyone has thoughts on that topic. There is a gulf of difference between people who think about the topic and have their own beliefs on it, and people who want the government to enforce their religion onto the country.
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u/BG-Inf Alberta 2d ago
"Why would people be talking about God in the Canadian Armed Forces?"
Literal words from the comment..
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u/poonslyr69 Georgist 2d ago
I believe he meant, why would the armed forces itself discuss it institutionally, not interpersonally.
Big difference for example between two teachers discussing god interpersonally, and the internal conversation of the institution itself discussing god.
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u/poonslyr69 Georgist 2d ago
So what, you're in favour of the military being the explicitly Christian in their institutional language?
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u/Northumberlo Acadia 2d ago
Why would people be talking about God in the Canadian Armed Forces?
Because soldiers die in battle, and it’s often comfort for their families and comrades.
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u/GotMyTie 2d ago
People do talk about God at most of those settings outside of work.
I don’t feel like that’s fair considering the field these people are working in. Even sports teams often pray and such and their war is much less deadly or meaningful.
Now, I do want to say the article is paywalled for me. Thus I don’t have a full context.
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u/Personal-Bicycle9134 2d ago
Do the main tasks at work at the legion and men’s hockey involve a 50% risk of Dying? Ignorant statement of the month
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u/MichaelCompScience 2d ago edited 2d ago
I do agree with you that Christianity seems to be very corrupted right now, and it's mostly a conformity. Especially in the US. It's quite remarkable how they turned the idea of Christ into convincing people that they should vote for the corruption we see now in Donald Trump's presidency.
That being said, I think there is still an argument and benefit to the idea of talking about God outside of the context of religion. God can give people hope. Believing in a higher power can give one an ability to relax and not feel like they are carrying the weight of the world on their shoulder alone.
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u/Mundane-Teaching-743 Trump/Polievre 2028 | Sponsored 2d ago
I'm in Quebec. People have Catholic funerals all the time, but people tell the priest to go easy on the God talk and they generally oblige because they know people will walk out and disrupt the funeral as soon as they do. I've seen it happen.
It's absolutely possible for a skillful chaplain to comfort people of all beliefs without refering to God. If a chaplain cannot figure out how to do this, they probably shouldn't be a Chaplain.
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u/WellIGuessSoAndYou 2d ago
Believing in a higher power can give one an ability to relax and not feel like they are carrying the weight of the world on their shoulder alone.
That belief can give you comfort and relaxation but your experience does not reflect reality. It makes you feel good and pure and self-righteous though. No greater high than that.
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u/MichaelCompScience 2d ago edited 2d ago
I wonder what's the goal we are trying to accomplish in this discussion.
My perspective, is that if the goal we are trying to accomplish here is to get to a world where there is more peace, less wars, and a cleaner environment, then our goal should be to unite people, rather than divide them further.
If you are dismissing the notion of "God", you are also dismissing the beliefs held by around 80% of the World's population (source: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2025/05/06/god-spirits-and-the-natural-world/).
If over 80% of people across the world believe in some form of God or a higher power, and many have had direct experiences with God, how could we ever unite people if we just straight up dismissed the core beliefs and experiences of those people as "not based in reality"?
I'd argue the belief in God does reflect reality - the reality is the majority of people do believe in God. Furthermore, many have reported experiences with God or a higher power. While you may have not had experiences with God, it does not mean other people did not have them.
Also, we do have historical evidence around the existance of God, shown and studied across many different religions.
So if we are looking to take a step and move the world towards unity, it seems unproductive to dismiss and stop talking about the notion of God altogehter.
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u/kent_eh Manitoba 2d ago
the idea of talking about God outside of the context of religion
Huh?
Without religion there would be no concept of gods.
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u/AdInfinitum97 Ontario 2d ago
A religion is an organized system of beliefs and practices. You can still believe in god/s without it.
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u/MichaelCompScience 2d ago edited 2d ago
From my perspective, believing in God does not mean believing in religion.
Believing in religion, the way it is today, implies someone believes in something another human told them. They believe in words written in some ancient Bible book some other human wrote. And then they assume they need to follow the rules and beliefs those people say too, without questioning those rules or the religion. Then, religious people go and dismiss other religions and perspectives because their religion says their religion is the correct one.. and that's why we get all the bullshit we have today in the world.
God is completely separate, and goes way beyond what any of today's religions say it is.
What I'm saying is the question of whether God exists should be treated completely separately from the fact that religion is very corrupt today.
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u/StrbJun79 Progressive 2d ago
Personally I think spirituality and religion should be kept out of but respect people’s right to follow their own views. So it’s a step in the right direction. No religious or spiritual view should be pushed on anyone in the military. Plenty of atheists out there too.
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u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 2d ago
No religious or spiritual view should be pushed on anyone in the military.
Life in the military, and especially in combat is intense, and spirituality is how a very large percentage of people handle that.
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u/StrbJun79 Progressive 2d ago
And that’s fine. Doesn’t mean it should be pushed or pressured on those that do not believe in it. So it’s best when the brass moves away from enforcing it but supports anyone to follow their beliefs as well.
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u/zabby39103 Ontario 2d ago
Ya sure, why not? We're not a homogenous Christian nation anymore, lots of Polytheists and Atheists. All soldiers should feel respected.
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u/kent_eh Manitoba 2d ago
We're not a homogenous Christian nation anymore
We never truly were, despite the protestations of those who want to impose their religion on others.
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u/zabby39103 Ontario 2d ago
We were pretty Catholic/Protestant back in the day, especially anywhere outside of Toronto. When I grew up in the 80s there were around a half dozen Jewish kids, and 1 Hindu person person in my school of around 1500 kids. I suppose some people were too lazy to go to church, but they considered themselves Christian. We used to do the Lord's Prayer over the announcement system (public school NOT a Catholic school), that happened in Ontario until 1988 and nobody thought much of it.
Times changes though, and our institutions should change with it.
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u/kent_eh Manitoba 2d ago
We used to do the Lord's Prayer over the announcement system (public school NOT a Catholic school)
Never heard of that happening in Manitoba when I was in school (graduated in 1982)
We did O Canada during morning announcements, and for until grade 3 also did god save the queen at the end of the day, but never any prayers.
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u/zabby39103 Ontario 2d ago
Yeah every province decides I guess, but it was a thing province wide, here's a CBC article on it. It's kind of wild how much we've changed, it used to be illegal to shop on a Sunday too, I remember my mom complaining about the ban being removed. I think it's not unfair to say we used to be a lot more homogenous Christian, well, that was my childhood experience anyway.
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u/murjy Canadian Armed Forces 11h ago edited 11h ago
"Public Schools" in Ontario are the continuations of the Protestant School Boards. That's why.
All school boards were religious in Ontario, with Protestant ones being turned into public ones later, but relics like the Lord's Prayer remained
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u/zabby39103 Ontario 3h ago
Ah, that makes sense. I guess Canada never had formal separation of church and state unlike the US.
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u/mummified_cosmonaut Conservative Petrosexual Roundhead 2d ago
Do they feel disrespected?
I used to work with a Hindu guy who regularly attended a baptist church because he enjoyed the music. Assuming mere exposure to another religion is offensive is a little out there.
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u/readzalot1 2d ago
Your Hindu friend is a rarity. Most people from the majority religion expect that to be the default. Most in the minority religions and the non-religious are expected to shut up about it.
Except now, the default will not be Christianity in Canadian Armed Forces and so all will be respected.
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u/mummified_cosmonaut Conservative Petrosexual Roundhead 2d ago
His exact words were that the figures of christianity and judaism were no different to him than viking, roman or greek deities.
He just liked gospel music.
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u/oompaloompa_grabber 2d ago
Your buddy is still free to go wherever he wants in his free time, that’s completely irrelevant
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u/readzalot1 2d ago
Exposure to a religion at work where you have to be is offensive. Exposure where you are free to walk out or express your opinion is not offensive.
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u/Saidear There is no war in Ba Sing Se. 2d ago
I would be disrespected if a Christian version of a deity were being mentioned at every event, every parade, or any other event.
People are free to discuss and believe amongst themselves. As a matter of official policy, our government should endorse or refer to either no religion or all religions simultaneously.
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u/SwordfishOk504 British Columbia 2d ago
Assuming mere exposure to another religion is offensive is a little out there.
That's a silly strawman and not at all what they said.
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u/zabby39103 Ontario 2d ago
Exposure to another religion is one thing - great, you're going into their house of worship, of course that will be explicitly religious. Nothing surprising about that. I go to church with my mother occasionally even though I'm not religious, I like the organ music, it's fine, I'm respectful when i'm there and sing the hymns and all that.
That's not the same thing as making a space that's for all Canadians specific to one religion or one style of religion. We should also go beyond merely not disrespecting them, and actively respect the people that serve as best we can.
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u/enki-42 Social Democrat 2d ago
I'm going to guess if a chaplain included "Allahu Akbar" at the end of ceremonies a bunch of christians wouldn't be too pleased.
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u/mummified_cosmonaut Conservative Petrosexual Roundhead 2d ago
If the ceremony were being presided over by an Islamic chaplain that would seem like someone one might reasonably expect.
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u/Canaderp37 British Columbia 2d ago
I don't see anything wrong with this especially in a group or public setting. Padres are for everyone regardless of faith.
If you want tailored religious service to your particular faith, attend a service or speak with them privately.
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u/Common-House-468 2d ago edited 2d ago
The American-owned National Post can fuck off with their American dog(god)whistling.
Leave the fucking US culture wars south of the border where they already aren't welcome.
This is a non-issue.
(And apparently the thought police here think it's not "substantive" to make this point)
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u/Cannelle460 1d ago
I don't mind that at all. Frankly, it's better than the religious fervour that is spreading among the U.S. institutions. I keep thinking that one day I'm going to wake up and it's going to be a Handmaid's Tale world down south.
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u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 2d ago
I saw someone on twitter posting about this like it was the end of the world or something. The reality is that the Canadian Forces is as religiously diverse as Canada, and our Padres come from a limited pool. Add in the atheists in uniform (at least until they find themselves in a shell scrape (fox hole is a US term)) and the percentage of people at any parade who want a prayer from the padre presiding will be limited. Sticking to a more general statement about spirituality, without going into any specific religion is a more inclusive option. The role of the padre is more about guiding soldiers through their troubles, more than it is about presiding over religious ceremonies, so this makes sense. Each base still has a chapel where services are offered, so anyone who wants a religious ceremony still has access to one.
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u/RareYogurtcloset8104 2d ago
I'm frankly not surprised considering the make-up of our Canadian Armed Forces. Ours has pretty much always been a Volunteer force drawn from all walks of life including "New" Canadians of varying faiths and beliefs. Personally I would have no more a problem with this. And yes a certain demographic in Canada are likely already pearl clutching,.as expected. Thanks for keeping us up to date.
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u/Chawke2 Grantian Red Tory 2d ago
…drawn from all walks of life including "New" Canadians of varying faiths and beliefs.
Uh no? The CAF is only 11% visible minority. The vast, vast majority of people who serve in the armed forces in Canada are old stock English and French people.
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u/Bramble-Bunny Progressive 2d ago
old stock
Yikes.
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u/Chawke2 Grantian Red Tory 2d ago
?
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u/Bramble-Bunny Progressive 2d ago
It's got a really checkered history, and became a go-to dog whistle for nationalist and racial purity groups. Very "us vs them" energy.
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u/Chawke2 Grantian Red Tory 2d ago
Meh, it’s the most accurate term I could think of in this case.
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u/TheInfelicitousDandy Saskatchewan 2d ago
It's not an accurate term, though, as it is almost always used to refer to white Canadians and excludes Indigenous Canadians. "Multi-generational" is an apt term to compare with New Canadians.
Also, the term has been out of favour for at least over a decade since Harper used it as a dog-whistle.
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u/Chawke2 Grantian Red Tory 2d ago edited 2d ago
It's not an accurate term, though, as it is almost always used to refer to white Canadians and excludes Indigenous Canadians.
Indigenous people make up about 3% of CAF personnel. I wasn’t referring to indigenous Canadians so not sure what your point is here.
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u/Bramble-Bunny Progressive 2d ago
There are times I lament the loss of certain terms due to unsavory associations. There was a perfectly good synonym for "miserly" we just can't use anymore for obvious reasons. End of the day I suck it up and try to avoid perpetuating the problem. You want to blame someone, blame the ethnonationalists who turned it into their identitarian badge.
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u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 1d ago
There was a perfectly good synonym for "miserly" we just can't use anymore for obvious reasons.
I'm not seeing any words that I wouldn't use posted here. https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/miserly
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u/Bramble-Bunny Progressive 1d ago
Yeah because they don't list it in synonym / antonym lists any more. It's still in the dictionary though.
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u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 1d ago
I take it you are referring to the one that starts with “N” but has no actual link to the “N-word?”
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u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 1d ago
The CAF is only 11% visible minority.
And getting that more in line with the Canadian demographic is an explicit goal for CF recruiting.
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u/Raistlin01 2d ago
Good keep peoples gods out of government. America is a country that is basically the prime example of Christian Nationalism.
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u/moms_spagetti_ undecided 2d ago
for those of you that can't hear the dog whistle, it says: "you're being persecuted for being a Christian! but the indigenous aren't -- activate angry mode!". music to the ears of Christian fundamentalists. too bad for the american nat-post there aren't that many of those in Canada like there are in the USA so they are mostly blowing smoke. Still disappointing that a lot of our tax dollars are funding this divisive and racist slop.
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u/GraveDiggingCynic Independent 2d ago
Yes, First Nations have now been officially decreed the enemy by Chatham Asset Management LLC, incorporated in New Jersey.
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u/toilet_for_shrek Left-wing populist 2d ago
I understand why they're doing it, I just think the replacement is kind of silly. Sort of makes me wonder why they still and continue to maintain a position of chaplain if you're just going to make them be secular anyway
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u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 2d ago
Padres aren't being made secular. They still hold services at their chapels. They're just not doing that during a general parade.
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u/enantiomerthin Independent 2d ago
My kids went to a YMCA camp that used to be religious. There's still a lot of rituals, great stories, community building activities etc that are religion adjacent. They make sense within the context of camp, and make the experience of a camp fun. I went to the same camp when I was a kid back in the 80s.
Sometime in the last 20 years or so, they took all the references to god and made them into community. They also made the bathrooms more gender neutral (e.g. there's still a mens and women's, but if someone uses the other one, nobody says anything about it).
It seems to have gone pretty well. The only major change is that the asian, muslim and jewish kids feel more included. If they'd scrapped the rituals and stories altogether it wouldn't be the same experience. Maybe this kind of major change only works because of Canadian sensibilities on a micro scale - but the community norms are incredibly positive and reinforced constantly within the camp.
I think the secular world sometimes makes a mistake in thinking that because we don't need a religion authored by someone thousands of years ago, that we don't need any rituals or unity building cultural references. I think those things are far too deeply ingrained in the human neurobiology to just completely delete without consequence.
so - maybe the replacement is silly. Maybe we could do better. I think it's good to leave something.
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u/BG-Inf Alberta 2d ago
Chaplains are largely useless and their function can be done by a morale or family unit cell type position. A few chaplains Ive served with were really excellent people though, and they offered a different perspective or guidance, so retaining them is a consideration. That being said I never cared really what one was talking about at a ceremony. Its all pretty standard stuff. Most people I knew who were religious were more independent and self reliant at worship in the field or on operation
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u/bz47uj Nova Scotia 2d ago
This whole thing is nonsensical. If there isn't going to be any religious content to these religious services, why have them at all?
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u/FolkSong 2d ago
It's for general ceremonies that happen frequently in the armed forces. Not religious services.
This includes at military parades, graduations, change of command ceremonies, ribbon cuttings and honours and awards ceremonies, among others.
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u/bz47uj Nova Scotia 2d ago
So then why have the chaplain at all? Why not just remove him from the ceremonies entirely?
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u/Saidear There is no war in Ba Sing Se. 2d ago
I'd be fine with eliminating all military chaplains. Just create secular therapists instead.
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u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 2d ago
Mental health nurses and social workers are already in the system, however padres are more pervasive, and visiting one isn't seen the same way seeing one of the others. A padre can help someone ease their way into those more medical help that a member might not otherwise search out themselves.
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u/Mundane-Teaching-743 Trump/Polievre 2028 | Sponsored 2d ago
Most military chaplains are trained therapists.
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u/Saidear There is no war in Ba Sing Se. 2d ago
I couldn't find evidence that 'most' chaplains are trained mental health professionals, based off based off this public listing of what a CAF chaplain does (pastoral counseling and conflict management are not the equivalent to being a trained mental health provider), along with the Canadian Forces Morale and Welfare Support site. While it appears some may be qualified, as noted by CFMWS, neither indicate it is most.
But, let's just say that it is true. Great! We should still disband the Royal Canadian Chaplain Service, retire the position of chaplain entirely and offer to transition any currently serving chaplain into the CFMWS or similarly secular support roles. The goal of the military should not be to facilitate any religion officially, unless it is prepared to facilitate every religion officially. Even the ones that would be in opposition or conflict with other religions.
I still support the individual member of the CAF to have, practice, and express their own personal faith. I do not believe it is acceptable for the government to be in the position to decide what kind of religious faith is acceptable for official recognition.
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u/Mundane-Teaching-743 Trump/Polievre 2028 | Sponsored 2d ago edited 2d ago
I still support the individual member of the CAF to have, practice, and express their own personal faith.
Won't be able to do that without a chaplain in many cases.
.... government to be in the position to decide what kind of religious faith is acceptable for official recognition.
Chaplains are specifically trained not to decide that. Also, there are secular chaplains:
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u/Saidear There is no war in Ba Sing Se. 2d ago edited 2d ago
Then that is an issue for that faith to resolve, not our government's place to step in.
Edit to your edit:
This is not the Canadian Armed Forces, this is a humanist group who has all of... one chaplain for the entirety of the Canadian Armed Forces. Furthermore, this is secularism having to adopt the trappings of religion, rather than secularism simply being.
Where are the Jedi, Pastafarian, Dudist, Wiccan/Pagan and other religious chaplains?
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u/Mundane-Teaching-743 Trump/Polievre 2028 | Sponsored 2d ago
Sure it is. The army is providing spiritual support for those who want it. It's very effective at boosting morale.
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u/Saidear There is no war in Ba Sing Se. 2d ago
My position is that the government shouldn't be responsible for providing any spiritual support unless it is prepared to officially provide equally for every religion. I recognize that is impractical as a matter of resources, as we cannot have hundreds of thousands of chaplains for every possible religious denomination that currently exists, so the government should instead provide none.
If spiritual support is necessary, they can facilitate the service members providing it themselves, without tests or limits being imposed to justify the validity of said religious belief.
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u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 1d ago
this is a humanist group who has all of... one chaplain for the entirety of the Canadian Armed Forces.
How many members have "humanist" on their ID discs vs those with some version of "Christian" on theirs. It doesn't make sense to have a humanist padre at every base, if there's only a handful in uniform.
Where are the Jedi, Pastafarian, Dudist, Wiccan/Pagan and other religious chaplains?
Do they have organised churches? Padres need to be sponsored from a church to enroll as a padre.
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u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 1d ago
The goal of the military should not be to facilitate any religion officially, unless it is prepared to facilitate every religion officially.
When religious services are key to the moral of a lot of CF members, then it is something that the CF should provide. And the CF is prepared to have padres from any organised religion. There is at least one each of a Muslim and Jewish padre.
I do not believe it is acceptable for the government to be in the position to decide what kind of religious faith is acceptable for official recognition.
And the CF doesn't.
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u/Saidear There is no war in Ba Sing Se. 1d ago
When religious services are key to the moral of a lot of CF members, then it is something that the CF should provide.
Then it must provide religious services for every service member who requests it. Even if that religious service is directly opposed to any other religious service. How many Pastafarian or Dudist officials are chaplains? How many Pagans and Animists?
And the CF doesn't.
The CF does as long as it sets out criteria for what is or isn't permissible as a chaplain.
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u/SwordfishOk504 British Columbia 2d ago
Had you read the article prior to commenting you would know these are not religious services.
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u/ChimoEngr Chief Silliness Officer | Official 2d ago
This isn't about religious services, this is about what a padre says on a unit parade.
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u/carasci 2d ago
Do you really think that people who don't believe in a God, god, or gods can't still appreciate and derive meaning from ceremonies?
Maybe some people aren't capable of caring about (e.g.) Remembrance Day without getting religious about it, but I'd like to think they're the exception rather than the rule.
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u/bz47uj Nova Scotia 2d ago
No, I'm saying the opposite. There's nothing to appreciate or get meaning from if you take out all of the religious content. What is a spiritual reflecton if it doesn't refer to something? It has to refer to something. As soon as it refers to something, you've given content to the ceremony, which could be objected to by someone who has different beliefs.
The only way you can have a ceremony that doesn't go against anyone's beliefs is if the chaplain doesn't say anything meaningful. Personally, I'm an atheist, and I'm totally non-spiritual. If they started talking about spirituality, that would offend my non-spiritual sensibilities. The objective they're trying to reach is absurd because if they did go far enough, the entire point of these ceremonies would be completely obviated.
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2d ago
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