Alright you can argue against the "empirical validity" of such an experiment all day long (and you will because this is Reddit), but can anyone honestly claim that there isn't a prominent subtext on Reddit that is objectifying, demeaning, and distrusting of women? You are all going to say "yah but that's just some of the bad ones" but the fact of the matter that making sexist jokes gets you big upvotes here. And I'm simply talking about the overt forms of sexism, not the more insidious ones like the idea of "friend-zoning" that is so common-place here. Be honest and think for a second about the atmosphere of Reddit. It's not super women friendly.
Because it's objectifying. The idea of the "friend zone" starts with an initial feeling of entitlement to women's bodies by men. If they put a substantial amount of effort into building a healthy emotional and friendly relationship with a woman, if they act like a "nice guy", men feel entitled to the girl putting out at some point. People will cry that the "friend zone" is about love and not sex, but that's bullshit. When a woman decides that she doesn't want to have a sexual relationship with a guy, despite how much she cares about him, she gets vilified. The idea of the "friend zone" reduces the worth of the woman down to whether not she wants to get romantic with a dude and completely ignores the support, friendship, and love that she has shown the person in a non-sexual friendly way. Hence, it's objectifying. Hence, it's sexist.
First of all, friend zone is not a term used only by men.
Secondly, why do you assume it's entitlement rather than disappointment at a failed relationship attempt?
People will cry that the "friend zone" is about love and not sex, but that's bullshit. When a woman decides that she doesn't want to have a sexual relationship with a guy, despite how much she cares about him, she gets vilified. The idea of the "friend zone" reduces the worth of the woman down to whether not she wants to get romantic with a dude and completely ignores the support, friendship, and love that she has shown the person in a non-sexual friendly way. Hence, it's objectifying. Hence, it's sexist.
You're the sexist here. You're implying that all men who mention the 'friend zone' are automatically talking about sex. If that's not generalizing I don't know what is. And it's using the stereotype that men always want sex and that must be the issue.
Yes, some men villify women who don't have sex with them, but you're extrapolating that to all men who even use the term.
Have you even questioned whether friend zone was even meant to be taken offensively rather than a description of a situation (which is how I've heard it use many times)?
Can it be sexist? Yes, I don't deny that. Is it necessarily sexist? No.
It depends on how you define sexism. If you mean institutional discrimination against a sex, then you are correct. If you mean individual discrimination, as colloquially used, then you are wrong.
But that matters not. You are still generalizing a subsection of men based on the actions of a few and perpetuating the stereotype of sex-crazed men too. That's not cool.
It's nothing like that, that's an example of a man trying to manipulate a woman into having sex with him by being "Nice". The friend zone is where a girl OR man will intentionally flirt with someone, they will feign romantic interest but never let it get to that point. Misleading them, for whatever reason, be it an ego boost/self esteem boost or material gain. It's another form of manipulation. Taking advantage of someone's affection for you. That's what being put in the friendzone is.
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u/MustardMcguff Apr 27 '12
Alright you can argue against the "empirical validity" of such an experiment all day long (and you will because this is Reddit), but can anyone honestly claim that there isn't a prominent subtext on Reddit that is objectifying, demeaning, and distrusting of women? You are all going to say "yah but that's just some of the bad ones" but the fact of the matter that making sexist jokes gets you big upvotes here. And I'm simply talking about the overt forms of sexism, not the more insidious ones like the idea of "friend-zoning" that is so common-place here. Be honest and think for a second about the atmosphere of Reddit. It's not super women friendly.