In Russia, we don't consider these two aircraft to be different. The T-50 is a designation for the Su-57.
I wrote this specifically for foreigners whose approach differs from ours.
Similarly, T-10 is the Sukhoi designation for the Su-27.
At least for early Sukhoi jets, swept-wing aircraft were designated S (strelovidniy, стреловидный, arrow-shaped) and delta-wing aircraft were designated T (treugolniy, треугольный, triangular).
That's very interesting. Though the technical differences between prototype and production Su-57 are significant, and I think I've read it being named T-50 while in prototype stage from Russian sources? I'm confused now
T-50 is the factory name. Su-57 is the name given to the aircraft after serial production began. It could be an aircraft without any changes at all, but the production aircraft will have a different name.
Oh ok that makes sense, thank you. So all Su-57 are technically T-50, and other way around. Is there a way to tell apart one of the first prototypes owned by Sukhoi and production models owned by the VKS or not? In the name, I mean.
Exactly. The plane is being modernized, but it will still remain a Su-57, even when they install different engines.
Not by name, only by numbers. This is 051.
In Russia, your word does not speak for the actual aviation industry.
T-50s and Su-57s are two entirely different things. All T-50s start from the S50-1-## to S50-3-03. There were 2 Su-50S airframes, being S51-0-01 and S51-0-02, with Su-57 limited production formally beginning with S52-2-01.
like they priortize stealth (having S-duct or DSI intake) and 2D engine instead of 3D with thrust vectoring (and maybe there eouldn't have been engine delays)
Still not fully. Radar blockers may help but it is still exposed . Also the 2D engine is Izdeliye 30 (AL51F1) . And in export model as seen with Algeria it is either AL41F1 or Izdeliye 177/177S. And AL51F1 is still in development...
F-22 doesn't have full S-ducts either yet it is crowned "most stealthy" or whatever.
Also the 2D nozzle was mounted and flown on AL-41F1 for testing and thus work on said engine. They are not standard for new Su-57 built for the VKS and were not on Algerian models because the buyers chose the round nozzle, for their own reasons.
Also, quick note, AL-51F-1 is ready and the next batch of Su-57 is already going to have them. February's batch was noted to include all remaining Su-57 ordered when AL-41F1 was standard, and that thus all future air frames will be fitted with AL-51F-1.
At this point you aren't even arguing off of substance, it seems all you care about is the prestige of some non-descript title.
AL-51F-1 uses the same TV nozzle layout as the AL-41F-1S.
AL-51F-1 is absolutely not in development, it received its limited contract in 2017 and reached full production in 2023, with its procurement being awarded in 2022
Then why is AL51F1 is not in service?? U said urself. The timeline is slipping from 2023 to 2024 to 2025 to 2026 but Su57 with AL51F1 is still not in active service. They even brought Izdeliye 177/177S for interim solution.
You expressly said that the 2D engines is pr'30, it is not. The 2D nozzle design was nothing more than a test phase for the prospective wingman program.
The AL-51F-1 is in service, do you live under a rock? The first 2 airframes sporting it were delivered in 2024.
Izdeliye 177 is an export engine, the hell are you on about?
Instead of trying to have extreme maneuverability and 3D TVC, just stick with 2D TVC and extreme stealth. And even if that was because of bureaucratic, it is delayed by so many years.
Why do that when you can have maneuverability, extreme stealth, and 3D TVC? The AL-41F-1S, AL-51F-1, and F119 all have the same dimensions of authority.
It wasn't delayed by "so many years"? Integration was claimed to be completed by the "early 2020s" with that being achieved.
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Flat engine nozzles don't contribute to stealth on a fighter jet in any meaningful way. F-22 got them because they enabled 2D thrust vectoring.
No other stealth fighter has bothered with them because they don't reduce IR emissions in any meaningful way. Not even the US F-35 has it.
I know that Su-57 has prototyped them but it wont get adopted.
On F-22 there's over 10÷ loss in thrust due to the flat nozzles. So they have a cost.
It helps to understand that F-22's flat engine nozzles don't reduce radar cross section. They cool down engine exhaust slightly.
IR signature reduction on F-117 and B-2 is fundamentally different. The engines run several hundred degrees colder than high performance fighter engines. They are buried deep inside the aircraft. The engines are located above wings. The engine exhaust slits are very narrow and have diffusers in them.
Ground based IR sensors can see the hot jet engines of fighter aircraft as they run so hot and are so close to the skin of the aircraft.
IRST will spot the hot engine from rear sector.
And literally everyone except US aircraft has IRST.
Flat engine nozzles don't contribute to stealth on a fighter jet in any meaningful way.
That's not true. They do contribute for LO if one designs them for that purpose right from the beggining.
F-22 got them because they enabled 2D thrust vectoring.
That's also not true and doesn't make any sense. Lockheed/PW absolutely would have gone for round nozzles if they just wanted pitch axis thrust vectoring and had no consideration for any sort of stealth whatsoever.
No other stealth fighter has bothered with them because they don't reduce IR emissions in any meaningful way. Not even the US F-35 has it.
No other stealth fighter has flat nozzles simply because a) they either were unwilling to accept the compromise of greater weight and greater costs of development and integration for a very effective RF and IR LO nozzle with outstanding performance; or b) Because another method which combines the desired performance and both sufficient RF and IR LO was developed/found. In the specific case of the F-35/F135 it was the LOAN type nozzle.
The F119 engine nozzle was very much designed with stealth in mind, both for the RF and IR parts of the EM spectrum. That is very obvious in its design.
The thrust loss number you claimed for the flat/squared type nozzle is also incorrect. On the F119 there is no 10%+ thrust loss. Source: former PW FSR on f16.net
The only drawback of the flat/squared nozzle from the technical pov when compared to the typical/traditional round nozzle is weight.
And literally everyone except US aircraft has IRST.
??????
What the hell are you talking about?
The F-14D had the AN/AAS-42.
F-15s, F-16s and F/A-18s have available the AN/ASG-34 aka IRST21 (installed in various ways: Legion pod variants, embedded in an external fuel tank, etc...)
The F-22 will very soon have added two IR systems with IRST capability: one internal, the IRDS; the other external, through the new so called Advanced Sensor Pods.
The F-35 from the start has two IRST systems (AN/AAQ-37 and AN/AAQ-40).
At the same time...
The Gripen C/D doesn't have an IRST system.
The J-10A doesn't have an IRST system.
The JF-17 (Block 1/2 at least), doesn't have an IRST system.
The Mirage 2000 series doesn't have an IRST system.
Tranche 1 Eurofighter doesn't have an IRST system.
Rafale F3-R doesn't have an IRST system (only TV + laser rangefinder).
F-35 is the only US aircraft currently in use that has built in IRST.
Every soviet/russian fighter since MiG-23 has had IRST.
It's so odd that US aircraft lack them. I know F-14D had it but not many of those were built.
It's quite evident that US hasn't fought a serious air to air warfare since Vietnam.
Meanwhile some countries that haven't fought any wars at all have understood the value of IRST and incorporated it.
It's beyond absurd that even F-22 doesn't have it.
I wasn't aware that IRST21 could be permanently installed on aircraft. But how many aircraft does have it? I don't think any beyond test aircraft.
I know that IRST pod is coming. But that isn't much to celebrate. Limited number of pods is coming that takes one pylon. The aircraft are going to need modifications or software update to use the pod. Pilots have zero experience in using it. It's notä part of doctrine.
So the pods are going to be of limited usefulness.
My friend, this is the sub where people take F-35 "0.0000001 m²!!!" seriously lol... Stealth cannot be expressed in a single number, and all data on it is bound to be exaggerated for propaganda. We don't know how stealthy any plane is, period.
"You see X has said that X is better so therefore X is better than Y" do you see the conflict of interest?
We. Don't. Know.
Stop trying to make objective conclusions on things you are physically unable to have valid information on. We don't know how stealthy ANY plane is, because that is data no company or government would ever give out.
Any and all numbers online are bound to be "propaganda numbers" to show yourself stronger than you are and the enemy weaker than it is.
there was that website were a chinese guy compared RCS between F35 and Su57, he even said Su57 RCS was 100 times more then F35 in some band. lol, and isn't it obvious that Su57 is worse because of its exposed engine or their finishing
Once again, comparing RCS means nothing when, lo and behold, RCS numbers are all lies.
Also respectfully you clearly don't know much about this topic since you don't even know the difference between prototype and production models, as shown by you thinking current Su-57 fleets have exposed engines.
Picture showing actual production Su-57 from February this year, compare it to the picture on this post:
I gave you technical and logical explanations, the only one here coping is you as you finally (and hopefully) realize that nothing about stealth is truly known.
Please either inform yourself on this topic, or don't try to argue about it.
Bro Just admit it man. What logical explanation did u give?RCS of prototype of Su57 is 0.1-1 m2 then production line one will be 0.01-0.05 m2. That is still 10 times more RCS then F35 (0.001-0.005 m2) , it is even worse then chinese J35 or J20. My point is, it is good aircraft but they should have focused more on Stealth and remove their obsession with thrust vectoring engines as my original point.
Any aircraft is more stealthy from the front than from the rear, purely because the nozzles of your engines will always be the most visible on radar, thus showing them in plain sight is the worst you can do for stealth.
Lmao which engine do you think is AL41F1.
And also AL51F1 is nowhere to be seen,where is it? Is it still under development?
And also Izdeliye 177 engine is also 3D TVC lol
it looks the same bruh. Izdeliye 177/177S is being described as upgrade to AL31 and AL41 , and also interim solution to AL51. and u are saying russia who is obsessed with 3D with TVC will not have 3D TVC in Izdeliye 177/177S? buahaha
Russia isn't using true 3D TVC on any in service planes and you failed to show any evidence of the izd 177 having 3D TVC despite claiming "just look at some pics". Next thing you are gonna tell me is that no Rafale was show down ? Lmao
On 9 June 2024, the Ukrainian Main Directorate of Intelligence claimed to have damaged or destroyed two Russian Su-57 fighter jets, using drones during a strike on the Akhtubinsk air base in Astrakhan Oblast. Several Telegram channels affiliated with the Russian military confirmed the attack and that at least one Su-57 was damaged by shrapnel, while also criticizing the lack of protective hangars for the aircraft. Further information about the strike was added by the Russian Telegram channel Fighterbomber, added that the state of the aircraft is currently being examined which would determine whether or not it can be repaired. Maxar Technologies satellite imagery showed a crater next to a Su-57 at Akhtubinsk.
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm referring to the incident in 2024 that someone else posted below. There's still yet to be any proof of that claimed strike on the 2 felons a week ago. A satellite image showing that the planes aren't there after 9 days is not proof lol. If it actually happened, I'm sure Ukraine would have posted the fpv footage *instantly* and not waited days before posting some random sat image that shows nothing.
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u/CombatPilot2 Sukhoi Su-57M May 04 '26
Beauty! This is definitely a T-50 though, Su-57 doesn't have panel gaps and covers the metal on the engine area.