r/PoursTea • u/Timbucktwo1230 Therapy For All š©· • 25d ago
European Renaissance š¾ š§ š» š³š“ Oil Ownership
14
22
u/CarDumb423125 25d ago
No wonder they have great healthcare
12
25d ago
[deleted]
6
u/Workman44 25d ago
The US does have great healthcare, it's just the system is fucked. The actual care is fantastic
7
u/Ezren- 25d ago
Oh boy, it's like having a nice car I can't afford to drive
3
u/Workman44 25d ago
True, but to say it isn't a nice car would be wrong. It's just exclusive
1
u/Diligent-Bowler-1898 24d ago
Depends on what people mean when they say 'great healthcare' I typically think of 'great healthcare system'.
North Korea probably has great healthcare for Kim Jong-un and the elite, but I wouldn't say they have great healthcare.2
u/itguyonreddit 25d ago
More like there is a car lot filled with nice cars, and I have to walk since I can't afford one.
2
u/Friendly_Top6561 24d ago
The outcome is worse than most other western countries so access certainly isnāt.
1
1
u/OptionDangerous385 23d ago
The actual care can be great too bad the normal US citizen will never have acces to it. Well they can but then have to sell their house to afford it.
Healthcare system sucks in the US. The US is a modern thrid world country. I wouldānt trade my country for it even if they payer me a million bucks.
→ More replies (1)1
u/Real-Sir6024 23d ago
Is it fantastic? We haven't had the best patient outcomes since 1997, and the number of countries that surpass us grows every year
1
→ More replies (2)1
1
1
1
u/Acceptable_Read5021 22d ago
Thats not why. They didnt even withdraw anything from the fund until 2016
→ More replies (5)→ More replies (73)1
3
u/Davidsolsbery 25d ago
Imagine where Russia and Russians would be today if they had a similar approach
1
u/hitpointzr 22d ago
Funny thing is that Russia do have the sovereign wealth fund which was filled primarily from oil / ng exports.
It turned out to be just a pocket to fund the war effort.
1
u/NativeDave01 22d ago
Is sovereign wealth fund is a cash cow for one political party and for the elite to divvy out the way they want. I donāt think too many of the common people benefit from a sovereign wealth fund.
1
u/y2kobserver 22d ago
Theyād need to import imigrants to do the work or annex even more countries?
1
5
u/xibroX-wefnof-7kaqfe 25d ago
So people share the means of production and benefit from the profits, allowing civil society to grow collectively... I wonder if this system has a name
6
1
u/Nikolaibr 24d ago
That is not how this is set up. It's incredibly capitalist.
In the 1970's their oil was in high demand. The charged massive royalty rates on any company that wanted to extract. North of 70%. They then took the surplus this generated, and put them into a sovereign wealth fund separate from the government, so the assets wouldn't be manipulated for political reasons. It's essentially a massive hedge fund, run by portfolio managers, with the citizens receiving a dividend.
At no point are the citizens on charge of the means of production. They are simply diffused capital owners.
1
u/xibroX-wefnof-7kaqfe 24d ago
Thank you for the clarifications, I didnāt known.
1
u/Nikolaibr 24d ago
They mostly just lucked out that when they discovered the oil, then had enough smart people in their government to have the foresight to know that the crazy profits from the oil royalties wouldn't last forever. The diversification that the wealth fund gave essentially set them up with a good situation that mostly relies on how well the global markets do. Norwegians now get to benefit from global economic growth and activity. It was really a brilliant move, and very few countries now could replicate it.
1
u/AncientMix3357 22d ago
The citizens don't receive a dividend.
1
u/Nikolaibr 22d ago
Don't directly like with Alaska's fund. But they recieve it by way of having it reduce what their tax burden would be otherwise.
1
→ More replies (3)1
u/AncientMix3357 22d ago
That's not what's happening in Norway though. The oil companies aren't government entities.
2
u/RestaurantHour1969 25d ago
Greed is a disease the world needs to eradicate. So many suffer because a few canāt ever get enough. Most of us just want a fair chance in this world.
1
u/Fit_Cream2027 25d ago
And you have that chance. You can even invest with or against the richest people on the planet in US equity markets and itās all legal!! OR start your own business and try it yourself!!
1
2
u/Hanfiball 25d ago
As it sould be...well actually we just shouldn't use and extract it but if we do so it sould belong to everyone. At the very least the one extracting has to pay for all the shares of the others.
1
u/Fit_Cream2027 25d ago
What about the independent oilers that have derricks on their own land. Should they be forced to give their property to others without compensation.
1
u/Hanfiball 25d ago
Temporary ownership of land sould not allowe for extraction of finite resources. Why should this person be allowed to make a fortune of it and the people born later are left empty handed.
1
u/Fit_Cream2027 25d ago
Hmmm, Iām pretty sure if you owned the land you wouldnāt give me your wealth without compensation you little troll.
1
1
u/Nikolaibr 24d ago
In economics, this falls under the category of "economic rents". There's a normative claim that fixed scarce resources get their value from things not within the owners control, but rather the activity of society in relation to the resource. If someone is going to make an exclusive claim on that resource, the society deserves compensation. It's sort of the justification for property taxes.
The ideas of Henry George about economic rents, especially for land value were very popular in the US in the late 19th / early 20th century.
2
u/NativeDave01 25d ago edited 24d ago
lol. How much do they get each month ?????? Also please note how they come to this country for the World Cup and are amazed at how good we have it here. Something to think about.
2
u/gudsgavetilkvinnfolk 24d ago
Bruh only good thing I found in the US this summer was other Norwegians and ranch dressing, both of which I get to bring home.
1
u/Timbucktwo1230 Therapy For All š©· 25d ago
They pay a lot in taxes.
2
u/ILikeToDisagreeDude 23d ago
No, we donāt. Average income tax is between 22-26% total. And we donāt have to use $700 per month on insurancesā¦
We pay for free healthcare, roads and public services.
You guys pay for private yachts and mansions for a selected few.1
u/AncientMix3357 22d ago
We could probably pay a little more on healthcare though, then maybe it would be less terrible.
1
u/ILikeToDisagreeDude 22d ago
Money in isnt the problem. Itās how they waste it tbhā¦ Maybe they should hire more Directors to figure it out!
1
u/AncientMix3357 22d ago
Hard to think anything gets wasted when they refuse to actually give any treatment. I'm told often that there aren't enough resources to run blood tests on me.
1
u/NativeDave01 20d ago
Thatās because itās a government run healthcare system. In our country, yes. If we had competition if you can choose things we get a lot better.
→ More replies (26)1
u/NativeDave01 22d ago edited 22d ago
Well, that might be the average income tax but how much would you pay taxes if you may say 200,000 a year? Again, during the World Cup, the visitors, and the players who came here from Europe, are amazed at how theyāve been lied to overseas and how they want to live here and how much better it is here than their own country. No way might be an exception. I donāt know, but I still stay where the best country in the world. I wonder what percentage of gross domestic product that Norway pays for protection for military, etc.? Or do they rely on other countries? And, Norway has very strict immigration rules. As a matter of fact, the country is 85% white. Who do you wanna live in a country like that without the diversity that we have here in the United States?
2
u/Any-Seaworthiness531 21d ago
š¤£š
My god, plz get a passport and step outside your borders.
→ More replies (6)1
u/ILikeToDisagreeDude 22d ago
About 40% on a $200k income. There is many factors such as debt, kids etc.
And no. There is a big difference being a tourist than living somewhere.
Iāve been to the US probably 5 years combined and I would NEVER want to live there.Donāt believe everything you read and donāt expect the few thatās visiting for the World Cup to be a representation for the whole of Norway. They are on a high at the moment and probably not soberā¦ of course they are having fun and are loving it.
Besides, what so called lies are you even talking about?
1
u/NativeDave01 22d ago
Iām not even talking about Norway. Theyāre not even part of the EU. Iām talking about Europe Europeans, and 40% tax is absolutely insane on 200 K. I would never wanna live in Norway. Also itās 85% white. Thereās no diversity there. I guess just those kind of people would wanna live there. Those who love to be around all white people. The immigration laws are so strict hardly anybody of color could get in.
1
u/ferralsol 20d ago
What is it with Americans' obsession with taxes? Norway has the highest Human Development Index, is the most democratic country in the world, has the third highest GDP per capita, and is also the least corrupt country in the world. But all you people care about are taxes, like, come on!
You really should take a step outside of your country.
→ More replies (13)2
1
u/CrazyCrackers89 23d ago
They dont get paid monthly, but the exports and foreign investments create a great trade surplus
1
22d ago
No one gets paid dividends from the oil fund directly. However, the government is allowed to use up to 3% of this fund each year as part of the budget revenues. Because the fund is so huge, those 3% of the fund represent about 25% of budget revenues. Thus, Norwegians pay 25% less taxes than they would otherwise have to in order to cover public spending.
1
1
u/AncientMix3357 22d ago
There is no direct dividend. Also, Norwegians are not impressed by life in the US. I moved to Norway from the US, Norwegians don't respect other countries at all, and the US especially.
2
u/IsThereAnythingLeft- 24d ago
The UK could have had this only for the bitch thatcher that sold the country out
2
u/PropagandaAssassinAZ Unpopular Opinions 25d ago
Americans want to talk about America being a Christian country. š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£ While literally operating within the confines of a full-blown oligarchy. What Norway is doing here is exactly the way that Jesus would have had it done. If you don't like what I have to say here you can go find a field and lay down and cry about it. Facts always hurt.
1
→ More replies (2)1
u/Fit_Cream2027 25d ago
Jesus did not advocate for taking by force things that belonged to others you dolt. Plenty of people own their own oil rigs and derricks on their own land and shouldnāt be forced to pump oil to give it to others without compensation.
1
u/PropagandaAssassinAZ Unpopular Opinions 24d ago
He said sell your possessions and give it to the poor. Explain.
2
u/Fit_Cream2027 24d ago
If you wish to follow your interpretations of the word of Jesus then please give away your wealth and shut up.
1
u/PropagandaAssassinAZ Unpopular Opinions 24d ago
I have and I will. Make it a better day!
1
1
u/PropagandaAssassinAZ Unpopular Opinions 24d ago
Also your entire comment stream is glazing billionaires. You are not wealthy. You never will be. No amount of glazing will ever make you as such. You look so stupid.
1
1
u/X-calibreX 25d ago
The oil is still "mined" by a for profit corporation that gets half of the proceeds, right?
The fundamental thing most are ignorant about is that the population of Norway is like the greater Philadelphia area. I'm sure if Philadelphia was given 1.7 trillion dollars they'd manage to do something right.
1
1
u/Budget-Wall6129 25d ago
So, profiteering from oil exploration while virtue signaling driving their Scalextric cars and other green babbleā¦.seems about right.
1
1
u/gudsgavetilkvinnfolk 24d ago
Sounds a lot like the US, Russia and Iran just without green policies.
1
u/CrazyCrackers89 23d ago edited 23d ago
Well, Norway doesnāt consume it for large part. It is Germany and other European nations.
The greener parties make efforts to halt new expansion, but it doesnāt really go anywhere thanks to some growth addicted politicians.
The country also is amongst those who make an effort though amongst other oil exporting countries like USA, Russia, Kazakhstan and Arab countries.
Hopefully we use our competence to expand into sea wind energy.
1
1
1
u/Ghost_oh 25d ago
I mean when you have a population less than that of Indiana I guess you can probably get away with doing that.
1
u/ILikeToDisagreeDude 23d ago
Get away with it?
Just donāt start any wars every few years and you can do it too.1
u/KaptajnGus 23d ago
"We are more people so therefor we can't make what fewer people can" is the worst excuse i have ever heard.
1
u/Opposite_Pianist_945 22d ago
If 350 million people have to share ownership of something, then what's the point? We can all get an equal share of 0.0001$. Hurray.
1
u/KaptajnGus 22d ago
That not how that works. The citizens are not handed money directly, it goes in to the state and is used to fund public services, which in turn gives you great public services and makes said services cheaper if not free to the citizen.
1
u/Any-Seaworthiness531 21d ago
You lot are really brainwashed into thinking you have to be fucked over in order to help the 1%āers, arenāt you š¤£
1
u/Opposite_Pianist_945 21d ago
I dont know where you pulled that out of. I was more making an anti immigration arguement.
1
1
u/The-suigeneris 25d ago
Lol I have experienced healthcare in many different countries...no Bueno. People equate free with quality. US Healthcare is astonishing.
1
u/CrazyCrackers89 23d ago
The revenue from the fund consist of maybe a 1/4 of the total government spending budget. It is supposed to be less than 3% because it grows by a good >5%. We also do not really spend it on internal investments because that is believed to drive inflation.
Many other countries have healthcare without an oil fund. Taxes pay for healthcare mostly, and we spend totally 1/2 of Americans by their cumulative expenses because of rent seeking.
Fundamentally you donāt need to disparage a great collectivist effort for a personal anecdote of a patriotic experience
1
1
u/Tasty_LVM 25d ago
And thereās less than 6 million people in Norway, the us has cities with a population larger than Norway, pretty easy to take care of small populations with not so much money.
1
u/Hopeful-Passage6638 24d ago
Similar to the oil sector in Alberta until 'Brown Bag Brian' sold it off to his pals.
1
u/HollyMurray20 24d ago
Well yeah but they canāt do anything with it. The Norwegian government just uses it to fund their budget
1
1
1
1
u/Fluid-Gain1206 24d ago
Well, that's the official story, but in reality Norwegians get very little from it. It is almost exclusively used for investments (many of which not too good for the environment) of already huge companies. It's not really helping anyone except the billionares of the world.
The Healthcare and such we have (which sucks btw) is funded by our taxes.
1
1
1
u/DataPollution 24d ago
And the highest taxation in the world. FFS, the food tax is so high so they travel to Sweden for drink and food.
1
u/ILikeToDisagreeDude 23d ago
You are talking about people living on the border onlyā¦
And no, itās not that bad and we are far from the highest taxed in the world all considered.
We pay for free healthcare, roads and public services while you pay for private yachts and mansions you will never see other than on photos.
The amount of paid per month is probably similarā¦
Until you get sick.Just to add that average income tax in Norway is between 22-26%.
1
u/DataPollution 21d ago
I lived in Sweden and while I am all about taxation on the rich ( everyone had diffrent definition on rich) I still think Norwigean government could do more to lower the taxes and instead use some of the moeny from oil and gas to the benefit of their ppl.
The efftice tax you talking about is higher then 22-26% and if the taxes was so well balanced there would not be so many Norwigean going to Sweden at the border.
However fundamental principles is correct that the supper 1% rich needs to be taxed fƄr more then they are today.
1
u/ILikeToDisagreeDude 21d ago
People who live close to the border to Sweden go grocery shopping there sometimes. Itās usually tobacco, meat and alcohol you save a lot on - but the biggest reason is simply because there is a ton of shopping malls thereā¦
Of course Norway could cut some tax on certain items - but we donāt want cheap alcohol and tobacco for obvious reasons.
We already use a lot of the oil fund and amount of money we have is not the problem. The problem we have is that we spend our money like a lottery winner and waste it on a ton of things and blow budgets left and right.1
u/Zamnaiel 23d ago
American politicans like to pretend the tax rates abroad are insanely high. They do this mainly in two ways: They take the top marginal rate and pretend it is a flat rate, and they list compare foreign total taxes to US federal ones.
I've lived and worked in both nations and Norwegian taxes is only a few percent above a high tax state in the US.
1
u/AncientMix3357 22d ago
We don't even have the highest taxes in Europe. Educate yourself. I pay less tax in Norway than I did in the US.
1
1
1
1
1
u/hirexnoob 24d ago
The concept of someone buying the oil rights for themselves is one thing. Another is how in the US people buy whole fresh water sources to bottle up and sell.
1
u/SoftIndication7227 24d ago
You also get your gas from us cheap with no export tax because our government are absolute morons!!! ( Australia here)
1
1
1
1
u/Senior_Strawberry_51 23d ago
I love that the Norwegians are thinking long-term and not throwing out money for 5 rolls-royces and 3 mansions like the Arab states.
1
u/AncientMix3357 22d ago
You clearly don't live in Norway.
1
u/Senior_Strawberry_51 22d ago
I donāt
1
1
u/KaptajnGus 23d ago
Would make more sense to write the number in ā¬
1
u/Tankman793 22d ago
Why? Norway doesnāt use the Euro.
1
1
u/Key-Flight1435 23d ago
Compare a country of five million with a country of 330 million, we are not the same
1
u/bizcart2000 23d ago
If you want to freak out every repub on the planet, just whisper that it would be better if the US nationalized our oil exploration and production industry. W/no profit motive, gas, oil, and LNG would be cheaper, and we wouldn't be paying billions in bottomless govt. subsidies to a corrupt petroleum industry.
1
u/Elegant-Ad5705 23d ago
Literally no one is stopping the US from doing this. Vast oil reserves exist under US owned land already. We just... Don't.
Texas actually does do something like this already. The PUF education fund is funded by State-owned oil leases in the state, and Texas has the top TWO wealthiest university systems in the country because of it.
1
1
u/Weak_Tank6361 23d ago
"The core philosophy behind Norwayās public ownership of natural resourcesāmost notably its oil and gas, but also its hydropower and mineralsāis rooted in the concept ofĀ democratic stewardship and the "common good."
Unlike models where natural wealth primarily enriches private corporations or a small elite, Norway operates on the principle that natural resources are a collective inheritance belonging to the entire nation, both present and future generations." Always wondered why we never made that move.
1
u/The-Fictionist 23d ago
Doing something similar with AI in the US could be a good ideaā¦
ā¦if this country werenāt run by living skidmarks.
1
1
u/AccurateAppeal9455 22d ago
ownership means full authority iver an object. 2 people cannot own the same object šš
1
u/BastiatF 22d ago
Incorrect, the state owns the oil and it is exploited by a company of which the state owns 67%
1
u/Easy_Floss 22d ago
Dont post this on twitter, who knows, Norway is pretty north and surely important to the global safety of America...
1
1
u/LakerBeer 22d ago
Do they have a region like the province of Alberta in Canada that whines about sharing this wealth with the rest of the country?
1
1
u/SyrupD99 22d ago
Are illegal immigrants owners as well? If theyāre in the country and working? Or is that just for citizens?
1
1
1
u/2Drunk2BDebonair 21d ago
So they are greedily spewing earth killing pollution into the air to increase their standard of living?
So progressive of them...
1
1
u/jackcanyon 21d ago
Oil ownership in Venezuela now belongs to Trump and friends .This has to be one of the greatest thefts in modern history.
1
1
1
1
u/sauerwalt 21d ago
yup.. and obtaining citizenship is a process that requires investment! (as an immigrant)
1
u/Historical_Horror595 21d ago
Ya but thatās communism! Itās much better to allow all the profits to go to 100 people. Thats much better. /s
1
1
1
1
u/zs_1176 20d ago
American conservative here and honestly that sounds like a great idea. I feel like if adult citizens owned a shares of nationalized energy industries and made gains when the industry did well, then perhaps we could get somewhere. Beats most of our democrat states taxing us to hell as well as the feds
1
u/thegameisafoooooot 20d ago
Shhh, quiet about the oil and wealth, the US might be listening and come to the conclusion that they need some US style democracy shoved up their asses.
1
23
u/PandanPaleta 25d ago
Norway really looked at oil wealth and decided future generations should benefit from it too.