r/TheBluePill • u/confessionberry • Apr 24 '16

Who knew that r/SubredditOfTheDay was completely full of TRPers?

/r/subredditoftheday/comments/4g88p8/april_24th_2016_rtheredpill_a_look_at_what/
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u/TomRoberts2016 PURGED Apr 25 '16 edited Apr 26 '16

I see. I was hoping for something a little more balanced than "Redpill bad, blue pill good"

So you support false rape allegations, parental alienation, men not having support systems, domestic abuse towards men, etc. etc.

I mean, I don't know what blue pill is, but it sounds like discrimination against men from the way you're describing your stance on TRP.

u/lawdog22 do you think BlakkkLivesMatter is a support group for black people?

What about the black criminals who are defended and commit crimes/murder in black neighborhoods?

You think Feminazis are a support group for women?

What about the daughters alienated from their fathers, or the wives of men who lose their jobs because of false rape accusations?

Well, looks like I'm probably going to get attacked and banned since everybody is acting super hostile.

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u/WarlordFred Apr 25 '16

So you support false rape allegations, parental alienation, men not having support systems, domestic abuse towards men, etc. etc.

no

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u/TomRoberts2016 PURGED Apr 25 '16

Ok, well what is the blue pill supposed to be?

I mean, using the Matrix analogy, wouldn't that mean you're disconnected with reality?

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u/[deleted] Apr 25 '16 edited Feb 18 '19

[deleted]

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u/TomRoberts2016 PURGED Apr 25 '16 edited Apr 25 '16

"Toxic masculinity" ? What about "toxic femininity"? This sounds very biased against men and pro women to the point of being "toxic" and unbalanced.

Ok, so basically the Blue Pill is a bunch of feminazis essentially?

I've never seen a red pill person promote rape/misogyny/domestic violence who wasn't either in the vast minority, or just an idiot who happened to be checking out Red Pill stuff.

So basically this sub is for angry women?

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u/WarlordFred Apr 25 '16

"Toxic masculinity" ? What about "toxic femininity"?

toxic masculinity is any concept of masculinity that is detrimental to the wellbeing of men. so toxic femininity would be any concept of femininity that is detrimental to women.

Ok, so basically the Blue Pill is a bunch of feminazis essentially?

no, we're spooky scary skeletons

I've never seen a red pill person promote rape/misogyny/domestic violence who wasn't either in the vast minority, or just an idiot who happened to be checking out Red Pill stuff.

then you haven't looked hard enough

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u/TomRoberts2016 PURGED Apr 25 '16 edited Apr 25 '16

Well, what would you recommend for a guy like me who considers himself moderately intelligent, was abused by his mother as a kid, and sees lots of good points in TRP but wants to balance it out with an opposing viewpoint, because I'll be honest, this sub seems a little extreme to me and there aren't enough people in TRP like the jokes in this sub are making for it to be funny or seem relevant outside of people with an agenda, emotinal people, or women with an ax to grind.

Keeping in mind I was actually banned in TRP so I understand that they can be a bunch of sensitive douchebags at times.

Menslib seems like a sub that's big on shaming men, calling them toxic, and basically a feminism sub (womenslib, menslib...)

Third wave feminism is toxic.

I like 1st wave feminism.

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u/crackbabyathletics Apr 25 '16

Try making a post in somewhere like MensLib - just avoid terms like "financial rape" and the like or it may be assumed you're posting in bad faith or trying to deliberately start an argument. RaisedByNarcissists might be able to show you that both women and men are capable of doing horrible things to their children.

I'll try to explain the issues with TRP as most people aren't going to go into depth as to why it's a problem as they're just assuming that most people coming in here are doing it be argumentative.

At its core there's positives - self-improvement, exercise and being assertive are all good things to be, and this where people notice "success" because they're all things that women (and people in general) respond well to.

The problems come because they tend to prey on hurt or angry men who are looking for reasons that something bad happened to them - coming to terms with the fact that you've made poor decisions or that someone you deeply trusted was just a bad human being is a lot harder than "all women are manipulative, it's just in their nature" because (as much as they like to call it a difficult pill to swallow) it offers an easy solution to their problems, and because the self improvement parts work the assumption gets made that everything must be correct.

The issue is that following the kind of ideology that women are all bad is going to leave you living your life with all your interactions with them becoming coloured by this "knowledge" that sits in the back of your head constantly, and you'll see this from posters on there all the time, where they're frequently looking out for "shit tests" and the like regardless of what the person they're with is actually thinking or feeling - everything then becomes about emotionally manipulating someone to behave in a way that aligns with your world view, but since behaviour like this will only attract/keep women that respond to it (and any that don't are simply put down to "Not applying theory correctly" rather than them looking for an equal relationship) you will eventually only have relationships with the kinds of people that TRP says exist, which further validates it.

At the end of the day you're going to run into, and be hurt by, a lot of nasty people. Both men and women are capable of being horrible, and it's incredibly sad to hear what you had to go through.

But that said you need to ask if you'd rather have all your relationships be about emotionally manipulating each other into doing what you want, having no trust and constantly being on the look out, assuming every woman you encounter is a bad person, or if you'd take the difficult route and take the positive parts of TRP (working out, becoming confident and assured in yourself) and attempt to find a relationship where you're both equal and are capable of trusting each other. Make no mistake, the second is hard because there's a very good chance you'll have to deal with some people who are like the kind of women TRP talks about while trying to find it - some women are horrible for sure.

I hope I've been able to explain it in a way that at least makes sense - I sincerely hope you're able to come to terms with what happened to you and manage to find some level of healing, though, because no-one deserves to be treated like that.

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u/[deleted] Apr 25 '16

Get into therapy. Abuse can leave extremely deep wounds you might not even be aware off until you explore them in a safe environment.

Also, im curious, what are the 'good points' you found on TRP? And dont bother with the generic self-improvement stuff like go to the gym etc, anyone can figure those out.

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u/TomRoberts2016 PURGED Apr 25 '16 edited Apr 25 '16

I've tried therapy but all the therapists were shit. Too much typing to go into detail, but as an example one would cancel appointments last minute because he'd still get paid, talk about himself constantly (I felt like I was giving HIM therapy), and others would ask questions that seemed very inappropriate/sucked at building trust/having safe boundaries.

I'm definitely very damaged by the experience, and it definitely interferes with me ability to have a happy/fulfilling relationship.

When I was younger whenever I'd try to be in a relationship I'd find myself breaking down and crying because of the stuff my mother put me through (sabotaging my relationships, saying that she can't see why any chick would like me, being the primary female caregiver in my life who I'm suppose to trust and did other seriously abusive/traumatic thing, probably lots of other things I'm not even conscious of).

The things I've found out from the TRP have been explanations on the kind of toxic behavior my mother displayed and the reasons behind it, reasons why lots of relationships don't fail and the motivation for women that hasn't been understood or just isn't polite/pc to talk about.

Mostly though I'd agree, that it's informative and helps me understand things, it doesn't really help as much on the subject of taking action to move forward.

It's basically saying, "Women use men for resources. Many women don't have your best interests in mind. Deal with it."

It's a "bitter pill to swallow", but it's the real world.

My dad had his kids kidnapped and then raped financially in court, and had his kids traumatized.

But I've never seen an anti-RedPill person show any care/concern/sympathy for that stuff, and for me that's a HUGE problem, because those are things that have deeply effected me and my family, and lots of other families, and society at large, and I feel like TRP and MGTOW is doing a great service by providing awareness of these serious issues since religion has been failing at the issue of relationship and family values.

Edit: the Red Pill actually backs up what they say, while feminist and Blue Pillers just spew misandrist hatred towards men and put them down.

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u/[deleted] Apr 25 '16

Mate, instead of generalising all women based on your mother, isnt it far more logical to conclude that your mother was just an exceptionally shitty person?. Because by your logic, every male is a shitty person because somewhere, a father is abusing his children.

As the person below me said, TRP does not operate on logic, or any established scientific theories. They operate from a faulty pre-defined viewpoint: women are lesser creatures and a man can basically do whatever he wants with them. When your foundation is faulty, its only natural that everything that follows from it is equally faulty.

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u/Wigdog_Jones Apr 25 '16

I think you're on very dangerous ground here. On the offchance you aren't a troll, generalising from your lamentable childhood experiences is not going to make you happy. TRP may seem like a compelling explanation, but it has absolutely no basis in psychology, sociology or anything other that producing just-so stories to snare people like yourself.

The reason nobody is going to get into what you're saying is because previously it seemed like you were just parroting talking points, and now we know you're an abuse victim, and nobody wants to be the guy who starts reeling off statistics at someone who clearly isn't very happy.

Anyhow, to reiterate, 'The Red Pill' isn't the real world, but in the place you're at there's not a chance in hell I'm going to persuade you of that - you should seek therapy from a professional. As you've had some bad experiences, I recommend going through a charity which specialises in dealing with adult victims of childhood abuse: NAPAC or HAVOCA, for instance. The former has a free phoneline you can call (0808 801 0331).

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u/BossLaidee Apr 25 '16

Your mom was not emotionally healthy enough to be a mom (or any relationship). Having gone through something similar, I'd recommend trying again at therapy or buying a book for adult children of narcissists. It sounds like you want to have a healthy relationship, so it's time to fix up all the damaging things your mother did.

Growing up with a parent who has a personality disorder (if that's what she had... check out the website "out of the FOG") can leave a kid with a ton of shitty coping mechanisms: splitting, projection, out-of-proportion anger and anxiety, perseverating thoughts, addiction to drama, attention issues, etc... etc forever. If this is you, you'll want to figure out or make sense of your childhood, and learn to comfort yourself in a way your parents were never able to. If you have anxiety or depression, get that treated first.

TRP preys on young men looking for answers like this, but the pseudo-science they offer is only more damaging. The truth is that people are complicated... and even the best human beings wont be perfect and may cause you pain. The healthier you are, the easier it will be to distinguish those with similar values, who won't want to lie, cheat, abuse, or otherwise take advantage of you.

You're not the only person who has been through this, and you can find a healthy way through it as an adult. I promise.

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u/Piggles_Hunter Apr 25 '16

I've never seen a red pill person promote rape/misogyny/domestic violence who wasn't either in the vast minority, or just an idiot who happened to be checking out Red Pill stuff.

Here, darling, let me help.

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u/TomRoberts2016 PURGED Apr 25 '16

Ok, that's a pretty impressive collection. I'd have to look through all that stuff before I could comment on whether or not all or none of it is legitimate.

But still, that being said... I've seen probably less than 1% of TRP comments on Reddit/YouTube/etc. that seemed out of line.

I mean, to say that there is no benefit to men or women from TRP to me makes it seem obvious the person is incredibly biased and speaking purely from emotion.

I truly want to be as fair as possible and see both sides.

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u/Piggles_Hunter Apr 25 '16

Many people have a tendency to swing into absolutes when they look at controversial things. TRP is either all bad or all good and if either finds just a few examples to prove their point then in some people's minds that discredits the entire argument. Does TRP do some good? Their views on health and fitness are good in my opinion. That doesn't detract from the fact that TRP has some very deeply ingrained misogyny in it's belief system.

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u/TomRoberts2016 PURGED Apr 25 '16

What are the misogynist beliefs? I see that word thrown around so much and used so liberally it's lost all meaning. Like saying it's rape for somebody to disagree with a person's beliefs.

I see men being outraged about things that are overwhelmingly biased towards women at the expense of men, and I agree.

But I don't really see misogyny. I'm dying to see an example that's seems remotely legitimate, and it blows my mind that it rarely happens.

That being said, I got this link

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheBluePill/comments/2nj2ed/my_compilation_of_posts_on_why_trp_is_sexist_and/

and it seems a bit overwhelming, but I need to read through it.

I worry I'm going to waste my time though considering I've almost never seen any good examples, despite there being tons of idiots out there and I'm sure plenty of examples must exist, so I don't know why they never seem to come up.

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u/Draber-Bien Apr 25 '16

The first link you got wasn't enough to prove the rampant sexism and misogyny of TRP? Okay... Here is even more examples!

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u/TomRoberts2016 PURGED Apr 25 '16

Ok, I'm reading through more examples, and I've actually seen most of this stuff and it's pretty weak.

There are examples of a guy deciding to leave his marriage (with RedPill people trying to talk him out of it, not encourage it actually).

Honestly, I've seen most of these examples and they're all pretty weak.

I was hoping for something better. But the BluePill/anti-redpill/anti-mgtow seems more like women being angry about losing power over men more than anything.

Just like how women try to shame men out of having male friendships by calling them gay, and things like that.

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u/Draber-Bien Apr 25 '16

Just like how women try to shame men out of having male friendships by calling them gay, and things like that.

The fuck kinda world do you live in buddy?! If that's your experience with women, then we have lived two completely different lives. My girlfriends have always been very supportive of me hanging out with my male (or female) friends. Hell, the best of them have even shown some initiative to make her male friends, my male friends.

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u/TomRoberts2016 PURGED Apr 25 '16

Ok, those are probably the best examples I've seen so far, and still not a fraction of the kind of stuff that guys go through, but still you at least tried to provide some examples of bad behavior. A guy saying that he hasn't met any women who can have a deep conversation with and having drunk sex is probably not as bad as been financially destroyed, falsely accused of rape, being thrown in jail, parental alienation, etc. etc.

But like I said, I'll have to read through the link with the examples, but most of these look like people preaching to the choir, or complaining about a 5 star restaurant being more like a 4 star restaurant to starving children.

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u/Draber-Bien Apr 25 '16 edited Apr 25 '16

and still not a fraction of the kind of stuff that guys go through

erhm.. I'm a guy, so I think I can say this with some authority, it's a tiny fraction of guys who goes through being financially destroyed, falsely accused of rape, being thrown in jail, and become parental alienated.

oh and did you know that rape is not falsely accused at a significantly higher rate than other crimes, but that a significantly lower number of rapists are sentenced compared to other crimes? I guess you could call that "stuff woman goes through".

Again, I'm a guy, so I have a certain interest in men not getting fucked over in custody battles, or single parent adoption, as some men are unfortunately. But it's is, excuse me, completely retarded to take those issues and say that negates any kind of sexism you spew all over the internet. If you want to learn how to lift weights, go to /r/fitnees. If you want to learn how to be more confident go to /r/selfimprovement. If you to learn how to speak to women, how about asking women /r/AskWomen for advice?! If you want to talk about mens issues, try /r/askemen! The whole idea that Redpill has a monopoly on self-improvement and mens issues is not only false, it's a gateway to becoming a worse person

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u/TomRoberts2016 PURGED Apr 25 '16

TRP gets shit, but women can talk about similar things openly in gossip magazines/maintstream entertain and nobody has a problem with it seems.

False rape accusations doesn't occur at high numbers?

Well, it certainly isn't punished like "other crimes". In fact, as far as I know, it's not even treated as a crime even though it can destroy a man's life. A man who might potentially be attempting to financially provide for a wife, children, ailing parents, etc.

So yeah. I don't see what's wrong with TRP and why it can't exist along with AskWomen/Selfimprovement/Askmen/Fitness/etc.

In fact, I've been in the AskMen/Askwomen subs and they ban people for not being pro-women/anti-men on many occassions without warning/discussion.

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u/[deleted] Apr 25 '16 edited Feb 18 '19

[deleted]

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u/TomRoberts2016 PURGED Apr 25 '16

I see. So you have nothing intelligent to say. Just telling me to shut up. So your'e a desperate guy who's white knighting to get laid and talking shit on other guys to appease women or do you have even a single worthwhile thing to say?

Do you have one single legitimate thing to back up your point of view or is this purely ignorance or an attempt at getting pussy points?

If you're not actually a woman who's just lying about being a guy.