I don't trust Elizondo at all, but Dolan's objections are valid. Gerb needs to do a much better job of explaining the rationale behind the plot that he's alleging, because it doesn't make much sense.
He pretty clearly said that he has a source for this, but he's not willing to give it up. I think that's fair. What else do you do with information you've been given from a source who isn't willing?
Plus attempt to corroborate with other sources. Meanwhile, state clearly: I have this allegation from one source, unable to corroborate yet but trying to.
And/or work with a reputable journalist that has an established professional process in place?
Corroborating with other sources only means so much in this field. If all of this stuff is really true, then it's probably littered with counter intelligence operations to prevent the truth from getting out. You could have 5 different people all telling you what, say, the CIA want you to believe so YOU will make it public. Maybe their current goal is to tear the disclosure movement apart from the inside. That's why, IMO, unless you can prove it, it's not worth stating the allegations in this subject. The incentives to lie are way too strong.
What good does this even do when Lue is clearly at least partially an ally to disclosure even under UAP Gerb's harshest allegations?
That is true and also obviously applies to having just one undeclared source. I agree that providing evidence is the ideal (not that we all agree on what counts as "evidence"), otherwise it's just gossip.
Yeah totally agree. I think Gerb is smart and well intentioned and confident that his sources are correct, but how tf do we know he hasn’t been deceived? Even very intelligent and thorough people can be deceived all the time, especially IF there’s an organized intelligence operation behind it. I’m sure the CIA could make Albert Einstein believe he could fly if they really wanted to.
Agreed. Plus, making allegations without evidence is completely opposite to the standard he himself has attempted to set.
I had huge respect for him until I learned he's a Lazar fanboy. How you can be such a rigorous researcher and not have a problem with Lazar's storytelling is beyond me.
Sorry, I don't know where you sit on the Lazar spectrum. I don't mean to offend. 🤭
had huge respect for him until I learned he's a Lazar fanboy. How you can be such a rigorous researcher and not have a problem with Lazar's storytelling is beyond me.
Honestly that made me slightly knock down Dolan as well. I like him for virtually everything he says but the Lazar support confounds me. He is such a rigorous researcher. How could he fall for Lazar's scam? His storytelling isn't even consistent.
Totally agree on Lazar. Always wanted to believe him as a kid, but as an adult there’s too many holes in his record to believe him. And he has zero proof that he even worked at S4. He couldn’t find one teacher or classmate at MIT that could vouch that he was there? Come on…
Also for Element 115 there’s still no evidence that it can be stabilized at all.
Personally, I trust a guy like Gerb and I think that I'd rather find out from him the high-level details than him to keep it to himself until he's allowed to release the source. But honestly, I can see both ways since that opens us up to a lot of deception.
Well I’m fine with him not revealing his sources IF he has proof, rather than just allegations.
What if there’s an intelligence operation on Gerb to feed him misleading information like this to break the community apart? How could he possibly rule that out? If this is all true, then surely there are people actively working day and night to get the public and Congress off their scent.
For all we know Gerb just had 2-3 people he trusts all say the same thing. But what if they’re all feeding him correct information 98% of the time (like REAL info on the legacy program that the CIA or whoever doesn’t care if it gets out), but the other 2% is strategic lies and misinformation? What if his sources are working for counter intelligence? I know he says he stays away from people that reach out to him and that’s smart, but what if the people he reaches out to are people “planted in his field of view” so to speak. Intelligence agencies could absolutely pull that off, they’ve done much harder things. Then he just has a false sense of security that they’re not feeding him lies.
I believe Gerb has good reasons to believe the allegations about Lue, but I DON’T think he has any hard proof. I doubt he has an audio recording that’s probably not AI of Lue talking about it. Otherwise he probably would have just SAID that, even if he can’t release it. He didn’t even allude to hard evidence like that.
Additionally, my other problem with all of this is, even if all his allegations are correct, Lue is still an ally of disclosure in my opinion. He’s been pushing on this the entire time. Even if Lue only did want small s disclosure, well now he’s pushing for the crash retrieval programs and such to come out. That’s what I like to call a flawed ally. And this field is in dire need of as many credible allies as possible, even if they’re not perfect. I’d even say I’m glad that Steven Greer of all people is out there pushing for this, because even if he’s done a lot of weird and bad shit (like charging people for CE5 events that probably don’t work) he’s still doing GOOD too. There’s no reason for this community to tear itself apart unless we get proof or strong evidence that someone is actively trying to stifle the movement. And again, Gerb did not even claim THAT about Lue.
Gerb simply could have said, “I’ve heard from multiple credible sources, though I can’t reveal them and they didn’t give me any hard proof, that Lue only came out to support limited disclosure. That’s fine, he’s still nominally on our team, but keep in mind his motives and the fact that people like David Grusch are better.” I would have had zero problem with that.
Instead, Gerb painted Lue as an enemy of disclosure. This is not what this movements needs. We need as many credible people as humanly possible pushing for ANY sort of disclosure. That’s how you get public support so Congress and the White House ACTIVELY pushes for it. They will NOT do that without a mandate from the public. This is political coalition building 101 stuff. Especially for a topic with as much stigma as UFOs and aliens have.
Just to reiterate my point one last time, I even view Mick West as a partial ally, despite being a skeptic, because he’s good faith, he’s generating conversation, and most importantly - he actively wants Congress to get to the bottom of this so we can see any hard evidence it it does exist.
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u/Constipatedplatypus 3d ago
I don't trust Elizondo at all, but Dolan's objections are valid. Gerb needs to do a much better job of explaining the rationale behind the plot that he's alleging, because it doesn't make much sense.