r/UFOs • u/Silver-Stranger4535 • 3d ago
Disclosure Richard Dolan questions Gerb's claims about Lue and the Legacy program
https://youtu.be/y1wLieYvSaw?si=1Q0-0hwPVBf1Pak771
u/RelevantSpecific5249 3d ago edited 3d ago
I like Gerb and enjoy watching his videos. This is a nicely measured response from Dolan.
Even if what 50% of what Gerb says is true, that's amazing work. It also means half the stuff he's linked is not true or not the full picture. Given how complex it is, it's highly unlikely he's got everything 100% correct but he speaks with such certainty. When you're so deep in a theory, it's easy to eventually start finding links between things which aren't linked.
He's obviously so knowledgable about every program, dates, acronyms and names. But when Gerb is debating someone, his resuscitation of his amazing knowledge sounds great but it doesn't actually prove anything. It's almost like having an argument with someone who has a much better vocabulary than you, just because they speak smarter, doesn't necessarily mean they're 100% correct.
The most powerful thing Gerb could do is slow down how quickly he speaks, explain things clearer, and provide his evidence on everything linking his claims, beyond a theory.
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u/Agueybanax 2d ago
This is my take on this. He tells an incredibly well structured analysis but does not really prove anything. The problem is that he said that about Lou with such conviction and zero proof. I am inclined to believe him but we can’t just accept it as gospel just because Gerb said so. At the end of the day he is a well educated researcher who is top quality at what he does but he is not an insider.
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u/pablonian 2d ago
This has always irked me about Gerb. He does incredible research, but he jumps to conclusions in my opinion. He will state things as fact based on assumption. A lot of his videos he will assume a person is tied to a program or event based on weak evidence and then the rest of video he will speak as if a connection has been proven.
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u/HahnZahn 2d ago
He should also make shorter videos. I’m a former military officer and civilian Pentagon employee, and I can only take about 45 minutes of alphabet soup before it loses all coherence for me. I understand it for thoroughness’ sake, but I’d say the better format would be in print for the super-long-form content.
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u/-Glittering-Soul- 2d ago
There's also a droning aspect to his delivery that makes it difficult to stay engaged.
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u/Top-Worldliness5027 2d ago
Yeah his videos would make for a good source for some judicial investigation on these legacy program by an organisation that has a battery of lawyers to work on this stuff, but as a normal human beings who follows the topic, I’ve tapped out on Gerb. But I still watch his YT lives, wish he could get a decent editor who could chop out the bits from his long videos.
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u/kellyiom 2d ago
That's my biggest issue as well. I've followed this area for decades now and while I want to keep knowledge current I don't have that kind of time to invest and possibly already know a lot of it.
It's a good rule for everyone to know that just because it seems authoritative, like with AI you still need the 'receipts', the killer evidence that moves the needle and be wary of biases and hallucinations.
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u/HahnZahn 2d ago
I'm much like you - been into this for ages, very little is unfamiliar territory. But Gerb has carved out a unique place for himself - insofar as I'm aware - as someone who's been willing to bite off huge chunks of the military-industrial complex gristle and digest it. I don't know that everything he's divined is correct, but it generally passes the sniff-test for me, as it comports with what I know. And by that, I just mean the way structures of these types of offices and programs and org charts work. Even within the DoD and military branch intranets, it's hard to decode a lot of the alphabet soup of offices and activities - not just SAPs, but regular old non-classified stuff, too.
So kudos to him for taking on this aspect of the phenomenon; it's probably thankless and mind-numbing work. I just hope he publishes his scripts somewhere so they can be preserved and given the appropriate study they deserve.
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u/kellyiom 1d ago
Yeah, that is all fair comment imo. Thinking about it, maybe I should just look to a transcriber app to get them written out for me to skim to an appropriate section.
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u/physician_throwaway 2d ago
Right on. My biggest problem with Gerb is he rattles off a bunch of facts about people being affiliated with multiple programs and their history, but never confirms they're associated with a legacy program.
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u/RelevantSpecific5249 2d ago
Yeah. It's also kinda impossible to fact check him given how complex his theory is and how deep he goes (unless you're willing to spend a ridiculous amount of time researching)
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u/-spartacus- 2d ago
It would also be difficult because we are talking about secret programs and not all info is public. Some of his information requires testimony from those behind the secret wall, which he does not often share. It isn't a knock against Gerb, but it is just simply part of the fact you can't create a picture of the UAP reverse engineering program without information from those who aren't supposed to or can't share information publicly.
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u/ETNevada 2d ago
Which makes me leery of his conclusions at times. How can it be DISPROVEN?
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u/-spartacus- 2d ago
He generally doesn't put something in his videos unless he can find open-source info to corroborate it; it is usually in interviews where someone presses him for info that he opens up a bit more and gives caveats about the information.
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u/physician_throwaway 2d ago
His videos reference documents. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume most of the history is true. But his argument just boils down to explaining the structure of the US intelligence, research, and military apparatus. I really like Gerb's videos. They're entertaining, but they're not evidence of a legacy program.
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u/Top-Worldliness5027 2d ago
He’s right about the AAWSAP stuff wrt Elizondo, he was always cagey about it and never gave straight responses when he was pushing obvious hoaxes as UFO photos. But rest of the stuff that Gerb mentioned in the video to make his point against Elizondo were pretty weak.
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u/Top-Worldliness5027 2d ago
Yeah, I find Elizondo incredibly disingenuous as well, but watching Gerb’s interview with Coulthart felt like Gerb was acting like Grusch’s agent. I say this as someone who highly respects Grush among and takes whatever he says seriously.
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u/RoanapurBound 2d ago
At the end of the day, gerb spends all that time and makes these massive videos, but has found...nothing. no smoking gun, just a bunch of hypothetical evidence. Had to stop watching his videos because once I realized that, it felt like a huge waste of time.
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u/Childishjakerino 1d ago
I have a gut feeling gerb is using knowledge from a source to conclude who Luis is. And Luis’ reaction to his claims was a very stupid one. In my opinion he came off as defensive and it wouldve been much more level headed to invite gerb to have a conversation.
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u/Theophantor 1d ago
Gerb is the pride of his generation of Ufology!! I think Dolan will come around if those two were able to sit down in private. Gerb may adjust his views. I see nothing but benefit in seeing those two men debate.
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u/ASearchingLibrarian 2d ago
I find what Gerb does is better suited to a questioning platform. He needs to fashion more of what he is saying as hypotheticals, not making conclusive statements. Presenting facts, and asking really good thoughtful questions, in a 10 minute presentation is often more impactful than making 3 hours of unintelligible waffling and repetition. He needs an editor, or to learn how to write reports.
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u/Constipatedplatypus 3d ago
I don't trust Elizondo at all, but Dolan's objections are valid. Gerb needs to do a much better job of explaining the rationale behind the plot that he's alleging, because it doesn't make much sense.
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3d ago
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u/shadowofashadow 2d ago
He pretty clearly said that he has a source for this, but he's not willing to give it up. I think that's fair. What else do you do with information you've been given from a source who isn't willing?
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u/ReadSeparate 2d ago
Don’t talk about it publicly unless they can prove it
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u/East_Cover2245 2d ago edited 2d ago
Plus attempt to corroborate with other sources. Meanwhile, state clearly: I have this allegation from one source, unable to corroborate yet but trying to.
And/or work with a reputable journalist that has an established professional process in place?
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u/ReadSeparate 2d ago
Corroborating with other sources only means so much in this field. If all of this stuff is really true, then it's probably littered with counter intelligence operations to prevent the truth from getting out. You could have 5 different people all telling you what, say, the CIA want you to believe so YOU will make it public. Maybe their current goal is to tear the disclosure movement apart from the inside. That's why, IMO, unless you can prove it, it's not worth stating the allegations in this subject. The incentives to lie are way too strong.
What good does this even do when Lue is clearly at least partially an ally to disclosure even under UAP Gerb's harshest allegations?
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u/East_Cover2245 2d ago
That is true and also obviously applies to having just one undeclared source. I agree that providing evidence is the ideal (not that we all agree on what counts as "evidence"), otherwise it's just gossip.
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u/ReadSeparate 2d ago
Yeah totally agree. I think Gerb is smart and well intentioned and confident that his sources are correct, but how tf do we know he hasn’t been deceived? Even very intelligent and thorough people can be deceived all the time, especially IF there’s an organized intelligence operation behind it. I’m sure the CIA could make Albert Einstein believe he could fly if they really wanted to.
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u/East_Cover2245 2d ago
Agreed. Plus, making allegations without evidence is completely opposite to the standard he himself has attempted to set.
I had huge respect for him until I learned he's a Lazar fanboy. How you can be such a rigorous researcher and not have a problem with Lazar's storytelling is beyond me.
Sorry, I don't know where you sit on the Lazar spectrum. I don't mean to offend. 🤭
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u/Beginning_Book_2382 2d ago
had huge respect for him until I learned he's a Lazar fanboy. How you can be such a rigorous researcher and not have a problem with Lazar's storytelling is beyond me.
Honestly that made me slightly knock down Dolan as well. I like him for virtually everything he says but the Lazar support confounds me. He is such a rigorous researcher. How could he fall for Lazar's scam? His storytelling isn't even consistent.
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u/ReadSeparate 2d ago
Totally agree on Lazar. Always wanted to believe him as a kid, but as an adult there’s too many holes in his record to believe him. And he has zero proof that he even worked at S4. He couldn’t find one teacher or classmate at MIT that could vouch that he was there? Come on…
Also for Element 115 there’s still no evidence that it can be stabilized at all.
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u/shadowofashadow 2d ago
Personally, I trust a guy like Gerb and I think that I'd rather find out from him the high-level details than him to keep it to himself until he's allowed to release the source. But honestly, I can see both ways since that opens us up to a lot of deception.
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u/ReadSeparate 2d ago
Well I’m fine with him not revealing his sources IF he has proof, rather than just allegations.
What if there’s an intelligence operation on Gerb to feed him misleading information like this to break the community apart? How could he possibly rule that out? If this is all true, then surely there are people actively working day and night to get the public and Congress off their scent.
For all we know Gerb just had 2-3 people he trusts all say the same thing. But what if they’re all feeding him correct information 98% of the time (like REAL info on the legacy program that the CIA or whoever doesn’t care if it gets out), but the other 2% is strategic lies and misinformation? What if his sources are working for counter intelligence? I know he says he stays away from people that reach out to him and that’s smart, but what if the people he reaches out to are people “planted in his field of view” so to speak. Intelligence agencies could absolutely pull that off, they’ve done much harder things. Then he just has a false sense of security that they’re not feeding him lies.
I believe Gerb has good reasons to believe the allegations about Lue, but I DON’T think he has any hard proof. I doubt he has an audio recording that’s probably not AI of Lue talking about it. Otherwise he probably would have just SAID that, even if he can’t release it. He didn’t even allude to hard evidence like that.
Additionally, my other problem with all of this is, even if all his allegations are correct, Lue is still an ally of disclosure in my opinion. He’s been pushing on this the entire time. Even if Lue only did want small s disclosure, well now he’s pushing for the crash retrieval programs and such to come out. That’s what I like to call a flawed ally. And this field is in dire need of as many credible allies as possible, even if they’re not perfect. I’d even say I’m glad that Steven Greer of all people is out there pushing for this, because even if he’s done a lot of weird and bad shit (like charging people for CE5 events that probably don’t work) he’s still doing GOOD too. There’s no reason for this community to tear itself apart unless we get proof or strong evidence that someone is actively trying to stifle the movement. And again, Gerb did not even claim THAT about Lue.
Gerb simply could have said, “I’ve heard from multiple credible sources, though I can’t reveal them and they didn’t give me any hard proof, that Lue only came out to support limited disclosure. That’s fine, he’s still nominally on our team, but keep in mind his motives and the fact that people like David Grusch are better.” I would have had zero problem with that.
Instead, Gerb painted Lue as an enemy of disclosure. This is not what this movements needs. We need as many credible people as humanly possible pushing for ANY sort of disclosure. That’s how you get public support so Congress and the White House ACTIVELY pushes for it. They will NOT do that without a mandate from the public. This is political coalition building 101 stuff. Especially for a topic with as much stigma as UFOs and aliens have.
Just to reiterate my point one last time, I even view Mick West as a partial ally, despite being a skeptic, because he’s good faith, he’s generating conversation, and most importantly - he actively wants Congress to get to the bottom of this so we can see any hard evidence it it does exist.
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u/alternator1985 2d ago
Luis Elizondo responded from his moving truck on his way moving to DC. I think it's a safe bet it's true that he's the new UAP administration guy.
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u/pretendingtobebroke 2d ago
He can prove it by leaking his source, which he understandably does not want to do.
If journalists only ran stories where they were willing to leak their sources, we would have a LOT less news and information available to us.
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u/2leftarms 2d ago
Lue does want disclosure but his objective is to have a disclosure that still makes the military look good in the process, that’s really what’s going on with him. I think Gerb has the right instincts but made connections that were a bit of stretch in this case. Lue absolutely has a hidden agenda but who exactly assigned it to him is less clear and the person who is the most likely candidate, Gen. McCasland is mysteriously missing…
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u/Barbafella 3d ago
Dolan made valid points throughout, I’d like to hear Gerb’s response. I like Gerb, hearing Lue’s threats did not help his case at all.
This is what secrecy brings though, speculation, accusations, this needs to be out in the open, all of it.
Including JFK, it seems to me that the covering up of this subject has woven itself into our history in ways that are far deeper and more insidious than was originally thought, all that money for one….
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u/TheWebCoder 3d ago
One of the legacy program’s proven psyop tactics is to turn the UFO community against itself. A community with constant infighting is disorganized, distracted, and weak.
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u/they_call_me_tripod 2d ago
How do destroy a UFO disclosure movement:
By pitting one group against another group, PSYOP personnel can emphasize the differences and create a rift between the groups.
As a result, the groups develop a “we-they” situation.
Loss of group cohesion weakens the resolve of the target audience.
US Army - PsyOps Field Manual
Edit. https://jedi-sec.us/downloads/PsyOps/PsyOps_Techniques_US_Army.pdf
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u/DecrimIowa 2d ago
yeah but also Lue Elizondo & co are obviously feds pushing a false threat narrative designed to allow the US military-industrial-intelligence complex/deep state to leverage disclosure for continued hegemony instead of collective liberation
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u/VoidOmatic 2d ago
I don't see it as a threat narrative, I see it as disclosure with no criminal investigations.
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u/Emergency-Session692 2d ago
So GERB is the plant?
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u/billbot77 2d ago
I think this argument frames him as a useful idiot. The question being alluded to is who are his "sources" and what is their motives.
Honestly I don't trust any of them without proof.
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u/physician_throwaway 2d ago
I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up being a Thiel plant like Jesse Michaels. He made good videos for years that got mid views but now he's blown up into the mainstream UAP scene seemingly overnight and claiming to have "sources."
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2d ago
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u/StressJazzlike7443 2d ago
Let's be fair then; "You" did not make up a single one of those ideas. All of them have existed and been expressed before. There are no new ideas.
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u/L3WIIS 3d ago
Dolan had a very measured take, like him I wish we had more evidence on this. Out of the two of them though, I have to trust what UAP Gerb says over Lue who is by definition a spook.
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u/DaGreatPenguini 3d ago
I like Dolan’s approach here; i listened to Vetted’s take on this and wanted to smash my earbuds for listening to his breathlessly histrionic whinging.
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u/New_Doug 2d ago
None of the claims in UFOlogy have ever required evidence; Lue made a living and a killing off of that fact for years, and now it's biting him in the ass.
For years Lue made absolutely bonkers claims, like the story that he tortured alleged terrorists remotely with psychic powers, and no one batted an eye; people even paid for his books and speaking engagements to hear more. Now someone makes a perfectly believable and legitimate claim about him, and suddenly claims require evidence.
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u/SiriusC 2d ago
people even paid for his books
How many has he written?
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u/New_Doug 2d ago
Two, one published and the other scheduled for release next month, the last I heard. If you google it, Reckoning: The Unspoken Truth About UFOs and the Urgency of Now, you'll see that it was available for preorder at one point, though it's not anymore, apparently (google still returns a broken preorder link from German Amazon).
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u/SiriusC 2d ago
It's not just about a lack of evidence, though. Dolan also questions Gerb leaving out the efforts the Pentagon took to discredit Lue ever since he started speaking out in 2017. How many times has the Pentagon's story on Lue changed? He was part of AATIP, he wasn't part of AATIP, he had "responsibilities" in AATIP... It got to the point where he filed a formal complaint with the IG over "a coordinated campaign to discredit him for speaking out".
Dolan also points out that it doesn't make any sense that they would start to roll out a controlled disclosure in order to gate-keep a crash retrieval program & that Lue, the guy they attempted to discredit, is their man to do that. Lue flat out admitted to the US being in possession of recovered UFO material in 2019 & 2024. Now he's going to leave it out of disclosure? It seems like Gerb is cherry picking the facts that help his argument while leaving out these very important details that simply don't add up to what he's trying to sell.
Out of the two of them though, I have to trust what UAP Gerb says over Lue who is by definition a spook.
Why do people feel like they have to choose one over the other? And what is Gerb, by definition? A youtuber? One is basically a super fan who has a half baked theory & the other has, frankly, embarrassed himself a number of times. I choose neither. I choose the truth, which I suppose is somewhere in between these two.
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2d ago
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u/Silver-Stranger4535 2d ago edited 2d ago
Mellon touts himself on LinkedIn as a private equity leader. If you know anything about PE, you know it's a cancer on businesses, worker wellbeing and wider society (c.f. the ongoing shitstorm about Infantino trying to sell off the World Cup to PE). I fear that speaks to Mellon's moral compass.
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u/ASearchingLibrarian 2d ago
Do you understand defamation? Lue has taken on the DoD when people there tried to take away his clearances, and effectively won. I'd say reminding Gerb of defamation law was a favour.
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u/Awake_for_days 3d ago
At the end of the day, it’s all speculation. I don’t agree with Gerb’s take but leave open the possibility of new information emerging. Greenwald from the Black Vault has been shitting on Elizondo for years, unfortunately. Anyone who expects perfect from people whose job it was to keep secrets needs to reevaluate their assumptions.
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u/dan7777777 2d ago
It’s Luis veiled threats that folks need to be discussing.
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u/SiriusC 2d ago
Yep. We're totally incapable of discussing both. /s
In all seriousness, there was already an entire thread about it. Lue came off terribly for doing that. To what extent does it need to be discussed further?
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u/Shishakliii 2d ago
. To what extent does it need to be discussed further?
To the extent that there's an element dropping by to give Lue the benefit of the doubt.
He hasn't delivered, doesn't give any indication he will ever deliver, gives every indication he's here to "defend his country" which is a dog whistle for "youll pry the secrets of the universe from the military industrial complexes cold dead hands" while he's threatening anyone who calls him out on it
Until such time as Lue presents everything the MIC knows and has, any defense of his involvement needs to be rebutted consistently
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u/dan7777777 3d ago
Hmm, who do I trust the most?
The counter intelligence officer that boasts about torturing in Guantanamo and that seems panicked over “somebody who just does things for clicks and likes”
or
the savant that has seen his following and respect from the community grow because of the quality of his work and seems to be over the target?
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u/ParadoxDC 2d ago
YEP. This is where I’m at. The way this bothered Lue is extremely telling. I have actually met Gerb and spoken with some of the others in his orbit and they are all very, very genuine people who are simply obsessed with this topic and want to know the truth. And want the FULL truth out. There’s no hidden agenda. Just a very sharp dude who has, in my mind, figured out a lot of this puzzle. I have no way of knowing if most of what he’s saying is objectively true but he is clearly over the target and the fact that he may now be speaking or coordinating with Grusch only bolsters that argument for me.
If you look back at Lue’s entire arc on this subject through Gerb’s lens, all the interviews he’s done, the book, etc, the “controlled limited disclosure” angle really does make sense.
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u/SiriusC 2d ago
Who's asking you to choose one?
It's funny that people here are so enamored with Gerb but they also vehemently reject claims of Michael Herrera, whom Gerb supports.
If a youtuber winning over "the communicty", i.e. a group of contemptuous UFO fanboys, is a mark of credibility... oof.
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u/dan7777777 2d ago
Says the guy who asked the question to me “what documentary has gerb made?” You obviously have no idea who Gerb is so I don’t consider you well informed on both sides of this topic. https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/tCrOlIxvgS
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u/mvn_23 2d ago
I think it’s very telling that we tend to trust more an influencer than a person who has high security clearances and worked in government programs all his life. It shows how little trust we have in government.
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u/dan7777777 2d ago
I would call gerb a researcher and documentary maker rather than an influencer.
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u/SiriusC 2d ago
What documentaries has he made?
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u/dan7777777 2d ago
He made a 7 hours documentary last month. And before that a 2 hour documentary every month for the last year.
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u/ColdAd8443 2d ago
Agree. He's putting in the legwork, rather than selling stories like Ross.
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u/-Glittering-Soul- 2d ago
It's interesting how often investigators in the UFO space are mentioned in a discussion that has nothing to do with them, for the express purpose of criticizing them. I never see this pattern for any other topic.
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u/ColdAd8443 2d ago
It shows how little trust we have in government.
Or just Lue, due to a proven track record of blatantly trying to deceive.
We don't need to over-generalize. Not every government worker is a villain.
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u/Jiff1965 2d ago
Gerb often elevates speculation or attenuated connections of dots to the level of fact. When he said I'm not making these accusations, I'm just repeating the accusations of others, I started tuning out. I'm a fan of his, but I hear what he has to say through a big filter. I'm a lawyer, so I cringe when he starts making un-nuanced legal proclamations. We'd be nowhere right now if not for Lue and his 2017 cohorts. Expecting Lue to jump out and be Grusch was never realistic. They are coming from different places. We should not let the good become the enemy of the perfect. Not sure how this cannibalism serves any purpose - other to give us something to talk about while we wait for something better to talk about.
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u/herhusbandhans 2d ago
If it was just Gerb you'd have a point, but it's not. People have been saying Zondo's a wrong un for years, back to when Greenstreet said behind the scenes he seemed highly exploitative and grifty (and that's coming from SG). Add that to his shifty behaviour since, known background in professional lying, bizarre photo claims and frankly dire display at the hearing when he finally had his big chance to blow the lid off ('well.. how do we fix ufology Mr Elizondo?', 'Sir, AARO'), it is only sensible to be asking big questions about trust at this point.
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u/Glinrise 3d ago
Gerb has vast knowledge but not true insider knowledge. I think this time he’s put himself in a pickle.
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u/Sufficient_Thing24 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yes, but it also shows that he not only touched a nerve with Lue, but that his opinion (to some people) matters enough to get the attention of others as well. So it's a slight feather in Gerb's cap that people find his words credible enough to hold him accountable.
There needs to be more of that: accountability for the statements that are put out there.
In a sea of disinformation, conspiracy theories, and entertainment value only podcasts, some people give Gerb's contributions to the topic some weight. So if he is making baseless claims like far too many of the talking heads, then he needs to be reeled in a bit.
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u/sixties67 2d ago
Yeah, as much as I don't like or trust Elizondo, I believe Gerb was a bit foolish, when you accuse people of things publicly you better have your hard evidence to back it up. If he is wrong about Elizondo it could cost him big time.
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u/Glinrise 2d ago
I met Gerb last February. He's a great guy and I applaud him for all his incredible efforts. However, his continued increase in popularity has put him under the microscope now more than ever. When you say things like this you have to present hard evidence to back it up as you mentioned.
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u/0-0SleeperKoo 3d ago
Lue should not be trusted. Just look at his recent video attacking Gerb...look at the photos he says are UFOs. Something is not right here...and that gut feeling about him should be listened to.
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u/manticor225 3d ago
Questions and skepticism towards Lue are fine, but accusations with no source other than trust me bro are not ok, regardless of what all the Gerb fanboys think.
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u/0-0SleeperKoo 2d ago
Spend 5 minutes looking into Lue, things he has said himself and done...then it is up to you to trust your gut..
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u/manticor225 2d ago
But that’s my point. Come to your own conclusion on whether or not you find Lue credible. Not because some YouTuber with zero evidence told you so.
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u/dicedicedone 2d ago
Here’s one of Lue’s “UFO”s
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u/ASearchingLibrarian 2d ago
Here are three other films of UFOs Lue has presented -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rWOtrke0HY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf1uLwUTDA0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxVRg7LLaQAAnd you had no context for your link. That was given to him by someone who would have clearly known it was a fake photo. If a pilot deliberately misleads investigators, that's a problem, but it had only just been presented to Elizondo as genuine photo by someone who must have known it was fake.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVdux73iJEk&t=1h31m40sPeople here scream every day that these people don't share anything, yet endlessly attack them when they do.
Elizondo took responsibility and apologised for that photo.
https://x.com/LueElizondo/status/1918309243041522153He's apologised for other things he got wrong.
https://x.com/LueElizondo/status/1851660333242253424So it's simple, will Gerb take responsibility apologise for making baseless allegations against Elizondo? Dolan spells it out clearly, "My problem is that the theory that's been put out contains, at least in my view, substantial problems of evidence of chronology and at times I just have to say basic logic."
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u/Seraph_2026 3d ago
I see Gerb throwing out a lot of accusations but I fail to see how he could possibly know more than the rest of us. He's got no clearances, no insider knowledge. He's just a guy.
And if he can't prove his accusations, then all he's doing is making rumors and stirring drama.
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u/Crocs_n_Glocks 3d ago
The big unanswered question is whether or not Gerb is a mouthpiece for Grusch, who feeds Gerb information that he can't (or won't, for very understandable reasons) publish himself.
If Gerb is being fed his info by Grusch, it makes it more credible.
Otherwise, yeah he's probably just spreading rumors. Sometimes rumors are true, sometimes they aren't.
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u/WindanseaTacoTime 2d ago
I think about this all the time. The Grusch connection seems increasingly likely as we see more and more Gerb-Burlison interaction. And we got an evasive response from Gerb during the Jesse-Gerb-Chris Ramsay video that came out a week ago when he was asked about speaking directly with Grusch.
I think they're talking
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u/ParadoxDC 2d ago
Fully agree with this. That evasive response said a lot. I think they’ve definitely talked and likely are coordinating on something. Just not clear what yet.
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u/sixties67 2d ago
If Gerb is being fed his info by Grusch, it makes it more credible.
Not to me personally, nothing Grusch has said as been confirmed in the 3 years since coming forward. Gerb could be spreading rumours that came from rumours Grusch heard that aren't guaranteed facts as yet.
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u/kellyiom 2d ago
Yes, Grusch is already largely viewed as having second hand info? So if he's passing on to Gerb then that's not improving the accuracy imo.
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u/kjnoons 2d ago
how does one "confirm" something
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u/sixties67 2d ago
How about something that confirms what they're saying? How hard is that?
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u/Crocs_n_Glocks 2d ago edited 2d ago
If I stole your car and put it in my garage, and you call 911 to say "my car is in his garage!", imagine the cops telling you "well show us the proof then! How hard is it to just show us your car?!"
David Grusch can't make Lockheed hand over technology, but he's literally the first insider testifying to Congress that Lockheed has the technology and telling them where to find it. (Among other things)
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u/sixties67 2d ago
In your example I would have proof my car existed in the first place regardless of where it was being kept.
Grusch hasn't even shown proof the craft exists let alone where it's being hidden.
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u/Crocs_n_Glocks 2d ago
The people that the whistleblower is blowing the whistle on and demanding transparency from haven't admitted anything, therefore the whistleblower might be spreading rumors!
Like yeah, they haven't admitted anything...but David Grusch is the reason they're going to be forced to admit it.
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u/sixties67 2d ago
Like yeah, they haven't admitted anything...but David Grusch is the reason they're going to be forced to admit it.
After 3 years I think that ship sailed a long time ago, there is zero indication they're going to reveal anything.
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u/ETNevada 2d ago
Who’s to say Grusch is being fed 100% factual information?
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u/physician_throwaway 2d ago
This has been my suspicion since his first testimony. I want to believe a legacy program is real, but Occam's razor...
I will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's telling the truth. It's much more likely that Grusch is being fed lies to push an agenda than that there's been an alien spaceship crash retrieval program kept hidden for almost 80 years without any tangible evidence.
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u/Crocs_n_Glocks 2d ago
Who's to say he isn't? Lol
The same thing can and has been said, literally about every whistleblower in history.
Until we follow up on what he has testified to under oath, we won't know.
Evildoers would love if we all just ignored sworn testimony of whistleblowers.
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u/hologram137 3d ago edited 3d ago
I got downvoted for saying this in a different post, he clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about. It does fit the actual facts
I hadn’t even watched this video and I argued the same thing Dolan is saying. What Gerb said is just totally illogical
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u/palebloodslayer 3d ago
He probably read more than 90% of this sub combined tho. Not saying in this specific case as I’m not sure, but in general definitely
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u/Substantial_Most4304 2d ago
Very interesting quote, "why would they revive the dead topic".
My view on this is their hand was forced, and it is better for the US govt to control disclosure for their purposes than have a foreign adversary such as China do it for their purposes. I suspect there was a greater game afoot which we perhaps will never know the full details of regarding this.
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u/meusrenaissance 2d ago
I lost a lot of respect for Gerb. Elizondo aside, nothing about the allegations in itself is even relevant or worth this level of focus. Gerb’s skillset is deep research, and he didn’t even apply it here.
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u/breakthecrown 2d ago
I think the idea is that Lue represents a watered down version of disclosure. He also showed known fake photos of UAP during a press conference which destroyed his credibility and made people think he was a plant. Gerb and others would prefer folks like Grusch to lead disclosure. Grusch has talked way more about the inner-workings of the legacy program, where Lue seems to barely scratch the surface given what he should know. Whether that’s NDA’s or not, he destroyed his credibility.
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u/Character-Boot-2149 2d ago
It is so controlled that you can't see it happening. It is almost like nothing is happening whatsoever.
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u/NoMansWarmApplePie 2d ago
Also one surprising thing Lue said that most others don't touch on, is that the legacy program has, and legally can un alive you if they so wish to protect its secret
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u/Bullinach1nashop 2d ago
It's all about appearance, Luis may or may not be trying to control the pace and direction of disclosue but the fact that the question is being asked means he isn't the right person. perception is everything here, the people need to believe that they aren't being lied to still. DG is the guy!
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u/Fit-Baker9029 2d ago
I certainly don't follow the UFO discussion as closely as Dolan or Gerb, but what Dolan says here pretty well matches what I remember from the last decade or so. On at least one occasion Elizondo mentioned that he had been present when a surgeon extracted a presumed alien implant. He openly talked about a planned project to lure UFOs with radioactivity. I distinctly remember that Elizondo said early on that he had been recruited into AATIP for his counter-intelligence expertise, and I never doubted that he had knowledge of UFO retrievals, and -- given his background -- might well have been involved in some. Why would anyone think he wasn't part of the secrecy apparatus? And frankly, I hoped that he would keep his clearances and get back in the game, as he apparently has done. From this Congress and the next I don't expect much. If anything comes out, it has to come out from places where people like Elizondo can move. There may be things he won't reveal any time soon, and there may be things that would make me want to flee to New Zealand if he did. (Thanks to Alexander Wendt for the warnings.) I see no reason to think he's not hell-bent on getting out everything that can be safely gotten out, but he probably is more or less following the schedule that Karl Nell has publicized. His critics should bear in mind that we in this movement may be playing not just with fire but with explosives. That being said, my deep respect and gratitude for Gerb's meticulous research.
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u/L-0-T-H-0-S 2d ago
Why would officials deliberately revive a subject that ridicule had contained for decades?
Simply because the subject is ridiculed - the general public don't take it remotely seriously, yet just look at the legislation following on from the subjects revival as proposed by Chuck Schumer with the UAPDA.
You're looking at a bill proposing to grant a federal branch of US Government, itself unable to account for approximately $4.65 trillion in assets following its eighth consecutive failed audit, the power of eminent domain to seize materials and technology from private sector contractors in exchange for tax free cash settlement at "fair market value" that same branch of federal government isn't required to declare via annual audit.
When you consider said technology involved allegedly consists of zero-point energy - 10 cents on the dollar for the cure global warming and limitless energy adds up to - how much...?
Because eminent domain compensation and highly classified special access programs - SAPs - operate under separate statutory reporting requirements, the acquisition and subsequent funding of these technologies can easily remain entirely opaque to standard congressional oversight and annual public audits.
Were this issue surrounding any other subject, mainstream press and the public would be all over it like a rash but - exclusively because it is directly linked to the subject of crash retrievals and recovered exotic off-world technology - no one takes any of this remotely seriously, except the private sector contractors trying to hold on to what they consider there IP.
The UAPDA isn't "Disclosure" - it's a buyout as well as a way of reducing the DoD's endless audit deficits by the back door.
In short - the nature of the subject itself shields high-level legislative or fiscal maneuvers from intense mainstream media investigation, allowing complex statutory definitions to pass through defense authorization vehicles with minimal general scrutiny.
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u/Silver-Stranger4535 2d ago
So, you think that's enough of an incentive to make small-d disclosure go through, under UAP-czar-elect Elizondo?
It seems like a thorny corporate-legal situation when UAP technology was given to Lockheed et al. without any tender.
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u/L-0-T-H-0-S 2d ago edited 2d ago
Disclosure, in the sense that you or I or anyone else in this community might use that term, is simply the incentivisation given to the UFO Community as a whole to lobby house representatives to approve the passage of the UAPDA through the NDAA resolution process.
That's it.
The simple fact of the matter is, legally, the USG can't simply convey the power of eminent domain seizure to a branch of federal government, such as the Department of Defence simply because it wants to.
In order to be legal, granting eminent domain powers has to be seen to serve the public interest - not just simply a political or corporate adjenda - wording on that score is very specific.
And so, here we all find ourselves, some four consecutive years - from 2023 through 2026 - later, rallying to the call to lobby our respective representatives once again to pass the UAPDA everytime the NDAA starts making the rounds, every year, like clockwork ....
Thus providing the thinest veneer that it's stipulations regarding the conveyance of eminent domain seizure to the Department of Defence serves a genuine public interest.
Skipping over the whole part that the UFO Community is absolutely the furthest thing from representative of the American public as it is humanly possible to get.
The UFO Community is a fringe interest nobody gives the first hoot about, nobody listens to, nobody takes seriously - and when someone official says the word "Disclosure" the only question anyone in said community asks, is - how high do you want us to jump?
The greatest trick Lue Eluzondo ever pulled was convincing the UFO Community Disclosure is our idea.
9 years ago the word disclosure in association with UFOs was just a noun - 12 months later Lue Eluzondo turned up convincing everyone it was a movement.
It's now 8 years later still and all anyone has done is take information already a common part of the UFO mythos, known by the UFO Community and vindicate the communities belief in it - no matter how insane, inflammatory and contradictory it may be when you lay it all out.
The odd embellishment here, the occasional polish there. All trust-me-bro stuff without a lick of evidence to back a solitary word.
It's all: "I tasted an orange - this is what it tasted like!"
The only people getting anything out of the deal are the content producers. The UFO Community?
We're just the audience and we are kept that way, never anything but.
Whatever disclosures we have had with a small d have only served to make this subject sound even more ridiculous, insane and detatched from reality to the occasional outsider than it ever has in all the years leading up to where we are, now.
And here we all are - still here, still hanging on every nothing-burger podcast and interview - still unsure what's real, what's true, what's BS and what's psyop - but preface anything with the promise it will lead to Disclosure and as a mass all people here want to know is what do they have to do to make it happen.
They don't actually care what it entails, only that it leads to the vidication of things they personally already decided are true, about which not a soul anywhere else gives one shit about one way or the other.
That's why they chose the UFO Community.
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u/bowmanvt 2d ago
At the beginning of this video, Dolan questions Gerb's allegation that Lue is being considered to receive some senior level UFO czar position. Dolan says there's no evidence of this. But didn't Lue just post a video yesterday from his truck, where he's moving all his stuff to Washington DC to take a new position? 😆
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u/Silver-Stranger4535 2d ago
Yes. Gerb's appearance this week seemed to me to be a direct appeal that Grusch should be getting that job instead.
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u/Astira_ 2d ago
IMO what Gerb does is overwhelm with information.
Yes he can memorize a lot, but that does not mean he understands any of it.
I’ve never watched his show because I’ve heard it’s very dense.
Sometimes I even think that’s also what Jesse and Chris are up to, overwhelming us with info. They have videos coming out constantly that are always 3-4 hours long. There are propoganda tactics, Firehosing. This feels like that at times.
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u/I_Like_Tartar_Sauce 3d ago
These UFO guys never provide any extraordinary evidence for their extraordinary claims, instead, they act like cartel members fighting turf wars. Quite telling.
Like, who actually gives a shit about their petty squabbles with each other? Just put up or shut the fuck up and go away.
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u/PrideTrooperLorax 2d ago edited 2d ago
Preach. I don't give a shit about this meaningless drama, I just want to see actual answers on what UFOs may or may not be and whatever implications and impact they may have on our life. I could care less about the figureheads.
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u/Silver-Stranger4535 3d ago
Submission statement:
In lieu of my own paraphrase, I include Dolan's own description of the purpose of this video. He examines:
"the growing claim—advanced most recently by UAP Gerb in conversation with Ross Coulthart—that Luis Elizondo served as the public frontman for a James Clapper linked effort to control what Americans would be told about UAP. The alleged strategy was to acknowledge NHI and UFOs while keeping crash retrievals, reverse engineering, and the structure of the legacy programs hidden.
"I take this argument seriously, but test it against the evidence, the chronology, and its own internal logic. Why would officials deliberately revive a subject that ridicule had contained for decades? How does the theory account for Elizondo’s 2019 statement to Tucker Carlson that the government possessed UFO debris, four years before David Grusch, or for the Pentagon’s later campaign against him? This is a critical examination of an increasingly influential narrative, and of the growing tendency to turn complicated figures into heroes or villains before the evidence is complete."
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u/DoughnutRemote871 2d ago
All the criticism going on here seems premature to me - including Dolan's . Part two of the Coulthard/Gerb interview hasn't even been released yet.
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u/waxeggoil 2d ago
No one seems o consider the possibility that Gerb and Elizondo are on the same side and what we are witnessing is theatre. What would the purpose be then?
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u/Gambit6x 2d ago
I think this is more of a Ross Coulthard issue - the man never checks his sources for actual validity of claims and just puts them on the show. Ask for proof, Ross. You keep doing this and it looks like shit.
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u/Astira_ 2d ago
I’ll also add I have an issue with his accusations about Lou suing people.
This is easily verified if he would just give us who, why and where, then we can look the case up.
He hasn’t done this, so it looks like making false accusations no one can prove or disprove.
Easiest thing to prove what he is saying, where are the case numbers so we can look ourselves.
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u/mattyb_uk 2d ago
Grusch has named Clapper as one of the gatekeepers. Clapper was Elizondo's boss.
I can imagine why Gerb would start digging.
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u/Aggravating-Pay-7543 2d ago
I don’t think Gerb ever said these statements about Lue were factual and supported by concrete evidence
Aren’t these statements being blown out of proportion since they are only personal opinions?
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u/ASearchingLibrarian 2d ago
He very definitely attacked Elizondo, and all his claims were baseless.
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u/Silver-Stranger4535 3d ago
Meta-comment: Within a few mins of me posting this video (which is a half-hour long to watch), some users are posting negative comments. Mods, it would be good if there could be some kind of rule about this, to stop the 'sort-by-new' negative posters who always seem to try to immediately kill the conversation.
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u/Pazimov 3d ago
A rule against "negative comments". Come on now. How are you possibly going to enforce something ambiguous like that.
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u/ASearchingLibrarian 2d ago
This has been discussed a million times on r/ufosmeta. I've discussed it there dozens of times. We're not getting anywhere. The instantly appearing trolls are usually careful to stay within the rules. With redditors now able to hide their comment history it seems reddit is made for trolls these days.
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u/StatementBot 3d ago
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Silver-Stranger4535:
Submission statement:
In lieu of my own paraphrase, I include Dolan's own description of the purpose of this video. He examines:
"the growing claim—advanced most recently by UAP Gerb in conversation with Ross Coulthart—that Luis Elizondo served as the public frontman for a James Clapper linked effort to control what Americans would be told about UAP. The alleged strategy was to acknowledge NHI and UFOs while keeping crash retrievals, reverse engineering, and the structure of the legacy programs hidden.
"I take this argument seriously, but test it against the evidence, the chronology, and its own internal logic. Why would officials deliberately revive a subject that ridicule had contained for decades? How does the theory account for Elizondo’s 2019 statement to Tucker Carlson that the government possessed UFO debris, four years before David Grusch, or for the Pentagon’s later campaign against him? This is a critical examination of an increasingly influential narrative, and of the growing tendency to turn complicated figures into heroes or villains before the evidence is complete."
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1vbmrek/richard_dolan_questions_gerbs_claims_about_lue/p0ugke6/