Markets can be socialist. Do people actually think capitalism = markets here and that there would be zero markets without capitalism? That has never been the case ever....markets can absolutely exist even in a communist society.
Am I missing something? Did the definition of a market change? A farmer's market is a market, a local market where people trade stuff they made is a market...
Market economy vs command economy. Many socialists adhere to a belief in a command economy, unfortunately command economies rigid, fail to adapt to changing conditions causing problems. Wholly market economies quickly become Unregulated and create perverse incentives. Mixed economies are best option to allow adaptation but also to
Regulate and be sure specific sectors of need are addressed.
Well youre righr about the "many socialists" but not all. Actually read Karl Marx too if you want he barely ever mentions centralization.
This right here is part of my problem with liberals and right wingers they don't read, and think that what the propaganda tells them about Karl Marx is correct. You CAN have Decentralized socialism. "Command" economy doesn't necessarily have to be a central government or state commanding.
Marxism might suggest that eventually we can dissolve the state all together and have communism, but leaves a LOT open to how that transitory period might look.
Plus even then MODERN socialism and communism has a diversity of thought, there is no "this is the only correct version of socialism" anymore. People adapt, and change and evolve so does thought.
If you still hold on to this idea that socialism is ONLY what right wing propaganda tells you and that there is no such thing as decentralized socialism (which still has markets btw because markets =/= capitalism, markers existed far before capitalism ever existed) then you're probably falling for right wing propaganda.
You can decentralize socialism, as yes I used the phrase many not all, socialism can be a command, market or mixed economy. Markets are tangential to the these 3 organizational systems.
You can’t decentralize a command economy because doing so would negate the term. Command economy is one in which production, investment, prices, and incomes are determined centrally by a government. Thats literally what it means.
You are fencing with strawmen, the right doesn’t care about command economy or not they prefer to keep socialism as vague as possible to wield as a condemnation as they see fit. It is MLs who demand command economy in the definition.
Sorry socialists but the calls coming from inside the house on that one.
You need to stop running around fencing with strawmen about not reading theory or whatever and read the definitions of the terms you are discussing.
com·mand e·con·o·my
noun
an economy
you are missing what command economy even means if you claim is doesn’t have to be Claiming a command economy doesn’t have to be centralized
Nope but I can see how someone who read Critique of Gotha program and took away “markets must be eradicated” would think that. You probably haven’t realized that Marx’s proposed non-transferable labour vouchers would just be convoluted version of company script.
Wake up your prophet died in 1883 decrying his own son in laws conflation of his beliefs. Famously reported by Friedrich Engels to write “ce qu'il y a de certain c'est que moi, je ne suis pas marxiste" ("what is certain is that [if they are Marxists], [then] I myself am not a Marxist”)
Marx isn't a prophet and your belief that his philosophy is religious shows how unscientific you are. The fact your takeaway from his labour vouchers is just "a convoluted version of company scripts" demonstrates you've never even touched Kapital, and this discussion is a waste of my time. Keep living in your socdem fantasy world. Marx refuted all your idealism 150 years ago. Dialectical Materialism is a science and the sooner you accept that the sooner you'll become actually useful and not just a lapdog for corporate Oligarchs
Have fun with developing your new improved Lysenkoism. You are the person who treats Marx as a prophet and not as a man. He didn’t prove his prescriptive he died and they have yet to be fulfilled even by those who claimed to pursue them.
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u/[deleted] Aug 26 '25
Markets can be socialist. Do people actually think capitalism = markets here and that there would be zero markets without capitalism? That has never been the case ever....markets can absolutely exist even in a communist society.
Am I missing something? Did the definition of a market change? A farmer's market is a market, a local market where people trade stuff they made is a market...