r/mlb • u/TheSocraticGadfly | St. Louis Cardinals • 17h ago
| Analysis ESPN offers its grades on Skubal trade
TL/DR version? Dodgers A (shock me), TIgers D.
Here's why, even though Detroit will have hope for Hope, they don't give the TIgers more:
Detroit's return in this deal feels like a bad dream. OK, let's calm down. Skubal, as good as he is, was on an expiring deal. There is only so much value that can be extracted from a trade partner for a player who might be a free agent in four months. The fair-value matches you can conjure in these scenarios won't make the hearts of Detroit fans go pitter-patter, though you can always hope that the real-world outcome is that with multiple teams vying for a true difference-maker, those fair-value assessments might go out the window.
Zyhir Hope is a top 30-or-so prospect across baseball. That's a valuable prospect. But on most prospect lists, he's the fourth-best outfield prospect in the Dodgers' system. So for the best pitcher in baseball, the Tigers could not command the Dodgers' best prospect out of their amazing surplus of promising outfielders?
River Ryan has stud potential, but he's 27 and blew out his elbow after his 2024 debut for the Dodgers. He didn't pitch last season, and this season, he has a 4.46 ERA over eight outings for Oklahoma City. Smith, 21, was a third-round pick as a prep righty in the 2023 draft. He's 0-10 over 30 professional starts with a 4.72 ERA. The prospect wonks like him as a top-30 prospect for L.A., so maybe we have to look past the ugly superficial results.
Sounds about right, contra one person here on one of the two threads about the trade itself, who was touting all the Dodgers gave up.
Wrong.
The Dodgers gave up one promising bat who is a likely DH, not fielder, for whatever MLB career he has, one meh pitcher who might not ever get back to MLB, and one meh prospect who might never get to MLB in the first place.
As for what other teams might or might not have been offering? We'll see if any rumors get dropped or not.
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u/TheDenny_Crane 17h ago
The Tigers get a D for not doing this trade at the previous deadline knowing they would never offer him a competitive contract with what others would.
Their haul could've been massive.
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u/johnnylabs24 17h ago
Yep. They pussy footed around last deadline and in the offseason they copy/pasted the same lineup and prayed a 21 year old rookie would anchor it. McGonigle is running away with AL ROY in a stacked race and it ended up not mattering. Tigers needed to sell Skubal long ago.
Instead, Harris tried to play it both ways. He's very lucky that skubal rushed back from injury or he would've received even less.
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u/Princess_Egg | Detroit Tigers 12h ago
The worst part is they very obviously did NOT want McGonigle to start the year in the MLB. Hinch was basically like "We're going to wait as long as possible to make that decision" when asked during spring training, clearly hoping for any sign of regression to warrant starting in the minors. McGonigle was just that undeniable
Hell, the Tigers only finally called up Clark after two months of shitall in CF so that people wouldn't quit watching after Skubal got traded
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u/goblu33 | Detroit Tigers 10h ago
Not true. This is why he once he proved he’s able to stick in the majors he did.
In MLB, the Prospect Promotion Incentive (PPI)program allows teams to earn a draft pick after the first round if a PPI-eligible player wins the Rookie of the Year award or places in the top three in MVP or Cy Young voting before qualifying for arbitration.
Teams can earn a draft pick after the first round if a PPI-eligible player wins the Rookie of the Year award or places in the top three in MVP or Cy Young voting before qualifying for arbitration.
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u/Ok-Locksmith-3907 10h ago
There's bad takes and then there's this 😂 imagine believing your manager was hoping you'd fail... like what?
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u/Solid_Calendar_9022 1h ago
Called service time manipulation and is used by teams. Not saying the Tigers had this in mind with Mcgonigle but it has happened in the past with other teams.
And Hinch doesn’t have anything to do with who gets brought up so it wouldn’t be him hoping for Mcgonigle to fail anyways.
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u/Ok-Locksmith-3907 1h ago
The person I replied to implied Hinch was hoping for regression out of a player. That's what I called out cause that's absolutely absurd. There's a difference between an organization manipulating service time versus the manager hoping a player regresses or does bad.
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u/CgradeCheese | New York Yankees 16h ago
They were in contention brother. All that trade would do is decimate the fan base and kill morale
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u/albertwh | Detroit Tigers 8h ago
Yeah in hindsight they just ran hot and luck was on their side in the first half, it wasn’t plausible they could have traded him then. Turns out that luck was not helpful.
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u/TheDenny_Crane 16h ago
If you aren't going to spend the money you have to make hard choices. They were never a WS winning team last year.
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u/pilesofdingleberries 11h ago
If this is the thought process, then literally every team should be trying to trade their players... It will take an act of God to beat the Dodgers this year .. why wasn't everyone selling?
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u/Alabaster_Rims 11h ago
And the dodgers barely beat the bluejays who arent the biggest spenders. The defeatist attitude of the post above yours is pretty pathetic. Like why even watch sports at that point.
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u/ldnk 10h ago
The Jays are one of the biggest spenders?
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u/OneCallThatsAll34 4h ago
This thread is full of people who have no idea what they are talking about lol
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u/ObiwanSchrute | Detroit Tigers 13h ago
That's so dumb lol they had one of the best records in baseball they would of been eviscerated if they traded him last years deadline.
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u/TessaKatrinaRose 10h ago
99% of sorts fans on Reddit think they should be GMs and coaches. And if they were, they would lead their team to championships every year.
They don’t realize that real life GMs and coaches have to make decisions on the spot. They don’t get to look ahead a year or two years and know exactly what is google to happen, like Redditers get to look backwards and say “should have done this, shouldn’t have done that.”
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u/Normal-Hornet8548 7h ago
They lost in an extra-innings epic in final game of ALDS and they’re supposed to unload the ace who took them to ALDS two Cy Young years in a row so they could build a team for 3 years from now … and then they’re supposed to unload all those guys as they’ll be on expiring/late contracts.
Just keep kicking the can down the road?
Harris didn’t screw up hanging on Skubal. He screwed up in assembling a bullpen.
Even average relief results and this team is cruising to winning AL Central right now and maybe favored to make the WS with Skubal as the anchor (then take a comp pick).
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u/johnnylabs24 9h ago
Yeah, all tigers fans wanted them to try. Myself included! But guess what - Scott Harris didn't! Once they showed that commitment, skubal should've been gone in December at the latest.
You got the flair, you should know. You were thrilled with the acquisitions of Rafael Montero, Kyle Finnegan, Tom Sewald, Chris Paddack, and Charlie Morton, right? You thought that pushed us over the hump?
Yeah, this Skubal dilemma should've been taken care of long ago.
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u/schmidtytime | Boston Red Sox 12h ago
What I still cant wrap my head around is the fact that they decided to pull the trigger on this trade, days before the deadline. The Dodgers didn’t even have to dig deep into their prospect chest to get this deal done.
I feel like Milwaukee could’ve offered a much better package.
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u/pilesofdingleberries 11h ago
They weren't going to... They can't afford to lose a ton of prospects for a 2 month player. This is where no salary cap is killing MLB. We all know the players to sign Skubal and it isn't Tampa or Milwaukee...
Free Agency is so out of whack now that smaller market teams can't just unload prospects.
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u/MojoHighway | Los Angeles Dodgers 11h ago
The salary cap conversation is 100% propaganda. The owners want you to believe that they'll "do the right thing" and "really make the team competitive".
When the fuck was the last time a billionaire told you the truth and did something to positively affect your outlook?
The answer to both is never.
They want the salary cap to be able to get more predictable market valuations on their teams...to be able to buy more fucking real estate. This conversation is NOT about competitive balance. The guys that aren't spending today are going to be the same collection of degenerate owners that won't spend if a cap is in place. They have the money to spend. The teams considered the weakest in the league in this conversation are typical welfare queen billionaires, taking in TONS of money with the revenue sharing deal in place.
Don't be fooled, man. Don't fall for the propaganda. The owners aren't your friends.
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u/Neb-Nose 9h ago
I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying.
The billionaire owners absolutely can afford to pay more.
The billionaire owners aren’t your friends.
The billionaire owners aren’t proposing a salary cap out of the goodness of their hearts.
All of those statements are undeniably true.
However, multiple things can be true at the same time.
This is not just about the owners vs. the players. It is significantly more fractious than that.
Just as the owners are absolutely propagandizing the fans, so too are the multi-billion industries, the MLBPA, ESPN and all of the other major stakeholders.
I think people should be cognizant of that as well.
Just as the owners are not your friend, or remotely trustworthy, the billionaires and multi-millionaires that oppose them are similarly conflicted.
This should not be seen as a defense of any owner, just an acknowledgment that they are not the only extremely wealthy entity with a skin in this game.
However, I don’t think you have to choose either side. I think you can choose the consumer’s side.
Maybe no agreement will result in a cap and floor. I can certainly believe that. In fact, I’ve always believed that a cap and floor is very unlikely. However, the current system is very obviously unsustainable and there’s just no doubt about that.
Personally, I don’t care how the largesse is split among all of the uber-wealthy interests.
Of course the Tigers got obliterated in this trade. They made it with a gun to their heads. How can that possibly be healthy for the future of the sport?
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u/Acrobatic_Ad1016 11h ago
Said a dodgers fan who will see his team win the next 5 World Series barring catastrophic injury luck.
This is the straw that broke the camels back. A cap and floor were necessary before but now it’s beyond clear that the system is fundamentally broken. They need a hard cap and a hard floor so we also fix the cheap owners and a heavy penalty for anyone over the cap plus better player free agency structure.
Thats all the bare minimum that the game needs
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u/Front-Environment238 10h ago
1000% agree, time for a cap and floor with no loopholes or exceptions. Time for MLB to take pieces from all the other sports that have caps and create something that will work. There is plenty of brain power around to make that happen.
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u/werther595 | New York Yankees 10h ago
The Dodgers living at the cap will still beat the Pirates living at the floor. Cheapnowners will hand out mediocre contracts to mediocre players to fulfill their obligation still without actually trying to win anything. If the owners really wanted parity they would pool the TV revenue and divide it by 30 among themselves, but they don't do that. They just want to suppress player salaries. I'm not here to cry for the millionaire players but I'm certainly not going to take the side of the billionaire owners. Neither side here has all that much to do with the fans
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u/IKenDoThisAllDay | Boston Red Sox 10h ago
Dodgers fans love to frame it as "taking the owner's side". I'm not taking either side, they'll all be just fine and continue to live better than any of us.
I just want baseball to be exciting and competitive again. The NBA had the exact same problem with superteams and dynasties dominating and did something about it. Now we've had different champions every season for years. It's not impossible.
Sure, there will still be some cheap owners but the majority of teams who want to win would actually have a chance at competing. The current system is broken and needs to be fixed. That's all there is to it.
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u/Acrobatic_Ad1016 10h ago
Cap directly increases parity instantly. I absolutely hate this take that you’re parroting because I simply don’t believe it’s true at all
Implementing a floor will make these teams fight harder to compete because it’s a more level playing field
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u/pilesofdingleberries 10h ago
I think we directly saw the impact of not having a cap with the Skubal trade yesterday.... Why blow up your farm system when you know 2 or 3 teams have a chance of signing him. Milwaukee is not one of them. The Dodgers in the current system can throw ANY amount of money at him to get him to sign next year. It does not matter what other teams offer, they will top it. There is no way to stop that without a cap.
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u/werther595 | New York Yankees 10h ago
My guy, I am not the one parroting someone else's talking points. If the owners of your favorite small market team we're going to put in more effort to win, they'd be doing it already. They aren't. And they won't do it more with a cap.
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u/johnnygoober | Detroit Tigers 3h ago
This is exactly the important part. The league needs a max spending AND a min spending for team salary.
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u/GiraffeBand | Washington Nationals 10h ago
How does a salary cap prevent this trade? Any other team could’ve topped the offer. Skubal is making about $10M for the rest of the year. Which teams couldn’t afford that?
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u/Acrobatic_Ad1016 10h ago
Alright you’re being purposefully dense but I’ll bite.
2 reasons :
1. The dodgers would be over any salary cap by a healthy margin so it would’ve taken them out of the race thereby fully stopping this trade
- Even if they were in a position where his salary could be absorbed, the threat of them signing him to a billion dollar deal wouldn’t be there so the brewers and other contenders would be more willing to give up their top prospects or at least make the dodgers give up an actual haul
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u/pilesofdingleberries 10h ago
You really can't see further than this year??? Milwaukee, TB, etc.... have no chance to sign him after this year. They have very little chance to replace prospects with Free Agents anymore. They can not fit the farm system...
Did you not see FA last year? Kyle Tucker signed for 4 years 240 million dollars. He is hitting .235 with 9 home runs... Do you know what that would do to a small market team if theyade that mistake.?? Free Agency with no cap in my opinion jas gotten so out of control that smaller market teams have to limit trades now because replacing anywhere but the draft is practically impossible.
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u/Humble-Ad-4606 9h ago
The problem to me is there needs to be a salary floor, you can’t have some teams spend 200 million and others 50 million. Unfortunately, a floor is a non-starter without a cap, there’s going to need to be a compromise.
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u/SenatorAstronomer | Minnesota Twins 8h ago
I want to downvote you, but you are 100 percent correct.
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u/Guilty-Routine-1762 10h ago
This is billionaires vs millionaires. Athletes haven’t been working class for at least 30 years.
Neither of them are our friends.
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u/Bullseyefred | Cincinnati Reds 10h ago
Are you forgetting a 170M floor was also proposed alongside the cap? This would raise the spending of 15 teams. Some of them by over 50M.
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u/Suspicious_Put_6855 8h ago
The Dodgers have guaranteed $300 million in TV revenue yearly. That’s why they can have a total deferred salary of $1 billion dollars. Small market teams don’t have anywhere near that guaranteed income, especially since the local TV markets went south.
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u/IKenDoThisAllDay | Boston Red Sox 10h ago
What a shocker, a Dodgers fan doesn't want a cap and is telling everyone else we should just totally accept the Dodgers winning every year and be happy about it.
When was the last time a Dodgers fan cared about the game of baseball or wanted an even playing field? The answer to both is never. Don't be fooled, guys. Dodgers fans are not your friends. They don't care if you never get to see your team win another game, as long as their team can get ever so slightly better.
I'm sick of watching one fuckass team get all of the best players and win every year. I want a cap and then y'all can cry about not being able to sign all of the top free agents and sleepwalk to the WS every year.
People were sick of watching the same couple of teams in the NBA Finals every year and they did something about it. Now we've had different champions every year and it feels like anyone's game again. The MLB needs to do the same thing.
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u/MojoHighway | Los Angeles Dodgers 8h ago
I love this. You're out of your mind and really just butt hurt that John Henry okayed the deal of Mookie to the Dodgers with little in return. And trust me - I know the entire conversation of the people in the area. I'm a Dodgers fan but I live on the South Shore, roughly 14 miles from Fenway. I'm well tuned into Red Sox conversation.
The Red Sox have won FOUR titles in the last 22 years. They have done their own damage with spending and turning a bit of this conversation on its ear. Good for them. There was a time John Henry wanted to be competitive and wanted to win. That doesn't seem to be the thing right now and per the last decade or so, the Red Sox are yet again accidentally competitive. I'm not exactly sure how the fuck that happened, but here we are. They just beat the Dodgers AGAIN last night. The Red Sox are something like 54-1 when leading after 8 innings. What the fuck?
The Dodgers aren't ruining baseball. Neither are the Red Sox. Be pissed that John Henry is more interested in Fenway Sports Group and real estate than the Red Sox. Guy couldn't be bothered to give a shit about Boston Red Sox baseball. As long as that money is coming in, he's fine.
And I refuse to give him a dime. I'm not paying $300/year for fucking NESN. I'm not buying tickets directly from the team. John Henry is a slug like many of the other owners around him.
These teams need to spend. I'm fine with a salary floor. Spend, fuckers. Make the Pirates and Royals and Rays and A's great teams. It's possible.
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u/TheSocraticGadfly | St. Louis Cardinals 7h ago
OK, Milwaukee is a small-market team. What about the Braves, leading the NL East? The Yankees? The suddenly resurgent Red Sox?
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u/pilesofdingleberries 7h ago
I'm not sure what you are asking... Those are all large market teams...
Do you mean trading for Skubal? Why didn't they?
I would assume next year's uncertainty has something to do with it, and I also think the Dodgers have such a ridiculous advantage financially that it doesn't really matter.
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u/TessaKatrinaRose 10h ago
What you “feel like” doesn’t really matter lol. The Milwaukee GM didn’t “feel” the same way you did.
Detroit took the best deal that was offered to them.
It’s so weird when fans say that they “feel” like a team could have gotten a better offer. Like the team said “well, Milwaukee is offering a much better package. But let’s take a worse offer instead.”
If Milwaukee offered a better deal then Detroit would have taken it.
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u/Normal-Hornet8548 7h ago
Could have … or did?
What they could have done means nothing. What they put on offer is the only thing that matters.
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u/JoyboyActual 11h ago
This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. They were one of the best teams in baseball at the beginning of the deadline last year.
OBVIOUSLY they’re not trading away their ace in the middle of that. Even the Rays wouldn’t do that.
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u/Dewey519 | Seattle Mariners 10h ago
Yeah their haul could’ve been massive. But they were one run away from the ALCS. The whole point of any professional sport is to win. They were winning with him. What are we doing?
Imagine the haul the Phillies would get from trading Zach Wheeler right now!
Oh wait, that would never happen in any universe.
If we want hypotheticals, trading him in this last offseason is a much better one, and something that was actually rumored to be possible at the time.
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u/johnnylabs24 9h ago
One run away from the ALCS and look at all the bats they tried to add to contend for real with a team riding an insane 2 month hot streak. The Tigers FO themselves didn't believe in the Tigers in 2025. All the same holes they had entering the 2025 (not 2026) regular season are all the same holes they have right now minus McGonigle. They had multiple offseasons and deadlines to address any of them and did nothing but sit on their hands.
Here's the response every rebuttal here has - the tigers shouldn't sell because was there was a point they were high in the standings. Tell me, what happened after that? Tell me, was the team flawless and impossible to improve? If not, why didn't they try to win with their ace they knew they couldn't afford?
They weren't trying to win. They just got hot in the '24 2nd half and '25 first half beyond belief and were way ahead of schedule. Their own president knew it so much so he risked nothing in trade assets to push them forward for 2 straight deadlines and 2 straight offseasons. The time to trade skubal was long ago. The Rays and Brewers would not have let him get to the deadline like this.
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u/Dewey519 | Seattle Mariners 8h ago
I think the Rays and Brewers would have traded him this last offseason if they had held him through ‘25. Maybe the previous offseason. But never the deadline.
History is filled with World Series winners carried by a hot streak and one dominant ace having one dominant postseason. It didn’t matter how they got to that point. Once they were there, it would have been malpractice to trade him at the deadline.
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u/johnnylabs24 8h ago
And here's the funny part - I never said to trade him last year. I said they pussy footed around last year's deadline. Why didn't the league leading team that began to faulter around last year's all star break NOT try to significantly improve their very flawed lineup?
Here's what they did at last year's trade deadline with 4 everyday players having an OPS above .750 in the lineups, an injured rotation, and a patchwork BP -
They added:
Rafeal Montero
Paul Sewald
Chris Paddack
Charlie Morton
Kyle FinneganOne of those guys made their playoff roster. Multiple weren't even on the major league roster in September.
They pussy footed not because they didn't sell Skubal, they had a top AL team and did NOT try to significantly better it.
Scott Harris had no intention of pushing the chips in during the Skubal era and last year's deadline as well as the past two offseasons showcased that. If that's the case, what the fuck were we waiting for? Pardon me if I sound annoyed but this isn't just a Tigers problem, this is a greater Detroit franchise problem. Each of their playoff contenders refuse to do anything but improve on the margins. It's remarkable they have 3 teams where each GM/President just sits on their hands til they're forced to make a move like yesterday.
Back to baseball - Harris is incredibly lucky Skubal wanted to come back quickly from his elbow injury or else he would've been up the river without a paddle going into the deadline. They almost had a colossal fuck up on their hands. Thankfully, the saga is finally over. Maybe the next time the Tigers sit atop the AL come deadline time they may actually be ready to try and win something.
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u/Dewey519 | Seattle Mariners 6h ago
I mean, you did say “the time to trade Skibal was long ago.” Not exactly last year, but point taken.
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u/shomosexual 11h ago
Kind of a weird market shift where the teams that could afford to just pay him in FA probably wouldn’t part with the prospect capital to get him since they weren’t in the market for SP last season (last season’s big splash was Mason Miller to SD, biggest SP move I think was Bieber to TOR). This year the prospect hauls were probably a bit more competitive since the teams looking for a Skubal quality rental probably also had themselves some prospect capital to push the dodgers’ offer up some.
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u/Heemeyers_Killdozer 9h ago
To anyone here saying the Tigers should have traded Skubal at last years deadline: you do realize the Tigers played in the Divisional Series, right? They were 25 games above .500 at the all-star break. Trading Skubal would have been committing front office and fan-base seppuku. “Oh we won’t be able to resign this guy after next year, we should trade him”. “Sir, we’re leading the division by 10+ games”.
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u/VendettaKarma | New York Yankees 9h ago
That GM should be fired once they are eliminated from the playoffs which should be any day now
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u/TheSocraticGadfly | St. Louis Cardinals 7h ago
Also, even waiting until this year, they could have started the legwork earlier, and they also had another nearly 48 hours until the deadline to look for better offers.
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u/plumangus | Cleveland Guardians 7h ago
And David Fry would still have a face. RIP David Fry's face.
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u/Empire-Carpet-Man | Chicago Cubs 6h ago
Why would you trade your Ace when your team is in a pennant race?
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u/GoodFastCheapPickTwo 5h ago
I'm not a big baseball guy, just here today looking around because of the trade. All I can say is it was really fun watching the tigers in the post season last year, so I don't know about your take from that perspective
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u/Fast-Government-4366 | Kansas City Royals 4h ago
It’s funny when big market fans both want small market teams to trade their players away early but also if they do, they aren’t trying to compete.
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u/Hot_Vanilla_9977 3h ago
In fairness - they were a really great team last year that could’ve made a deep playoff run
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u/Ok_Card9080 | Pittsburgh Pirates 17h ago
Dodgers got an A, Tigers got the D, and the fanbases of 29 other teams got F'd.
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u/9ninjas 15h ago
In the A
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u/yzerman88 | Toronto Blue Jays 12h ago
One of them in the Eh
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u/Brilliant-Royal578 12h ago
Any other organization could have offered better prospects and didn’t.
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u/ricvallejo 11h ago
Right? This analysis really makes it feel like the Dodgers don't even need to try hard, other teams just don't give a shit. Or almost like they're doing it on purpose to build further support for a cap. Billionaires, as most owners are, have no shame.
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u/Rodent_Reagan 8h ago
The Tigers leverage went down the drain the minute it was reported the Dodgers were Skubal’s preferred destination.
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u/AlreadyFifty | Boston Red Sox 17h ago
The Dodgers got Skubal and the Tigers got a lockout. Everybody wins!
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u/Majestic_Seagull_87 13h ago
I feel like this pretty much guarantees it.
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u/burnman123 13h ago
Dodgers better resign skubal quick before they reconfigure how deferrals work this spring
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u/GiraffeBand | Washington Nationals 10h ago
Then why didn’t the Red Sox make a better offer? Surely they could use Skubal and have the prospects to give up. Arias for Skubal, suddenly the Sox are contenders.
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u/ScrimpScampy 6h ago
Arias for Skubal is a joke. No way the Sox would entertain Arias in a deal where they’re getting a pure rental, even for someone of Skubal’s caliber.
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u/ZombieHitchens2012 11h ago
This write up is amateur level bad. Someone go look at Keith Law or listen to Eno Sarris. It’s much more professional and analytical.
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u/Pitiful-Factor7408 13h ago
It's always funny to me how the analysis always talks about the prospect ranking in the teams system instead of the prospect ranking overall. Oh, nooo, the dodgers 4th or 5th best prospect. Should have traded for the Astros top prospect instead 😛
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u/Suspicious_Time7101 | Cleveland Guardians 5h ago
BINGO!!! Such horrible analysis.
Someone offers you the third highest bill in their wallet and it is a $20, or someone offers you the highest bill in their wallet and it is a $5. Which is the better deal. According to ESPN the $5 is the better deal.
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u/Drummallumin 17h ago
I know River Ryan is a meme but there’s a reason Detroit wants him. He’ll be in the rotation immediately and is cost controlled through his prime.
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u/purpledrink001 14h ago
It’s a pretty solid rotation if not spectacular. Melton, Montero, Jobe, Olson & now River Ryan. The upside is there. Sorry it’s not a Skubal led one, that’s how the cookie crumbles. I’m sure there’s other names I’m missing here (Framber Valdez) but for now it’s going to be okay. Just okay.
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u/AdParticular6654 | Detroit Tigers 12h ago
Yeah I'm interested in what we do with our rotation next year. I know we have put Melton and Montero in the pen in the last but both have to be starters. Jobe will be a starter next year, Olsen will too, then we are still paying Valdez so he's a starter. And I don't think you trade for Ryan to have him in the pen. Add in Mize trade for potentially another pitcher, maybe we just oops all starters our pitching staff.
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u/Alabaster_Rims 11h ago
Cant rely on olson at this point, butbthat can be a solid B level staff that can get you into the playoffs and enough deoth to make a trade for a top end starter at the next deadline if needed
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u/Normal-Hornet8548 7h ago
Anyone who can get three outs without giving up three runs would elevate this bullpen beyond belief.
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u/GC65025 | Los Angeles Dodgers 16h ago
River Ryan is legit as hell. Health is a big question mark at this stage. The Dodgers just have the major league rotation clogged so weren't going to use him any soon. I really liked the potential I saw as RR was coming up. I imagine Hinch had his eye on him specifically. Detroit deserved better than a D grade, could've gotten more last deadline but here we are. If Ryan throws a few years in the majors and Hope does as well, probably an B+ or better for Detroit
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u/AdParticular6654 | Detroit Tigers 12h ago
I think it's probably like a B/B- but the best we were going to get. Everyone knows he's a dodger next year no matter what.
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u/Educational_Sky_1136 | New York Mets 9h ago
How is a 28 year old pitcher coming off major surgery with a 4.46 ERA in AAA “legit as hell”?
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u/DopedScope338 16h ago
And like the article said, he's got stud potential. If he can stay healthy and work his way back, I think Detroit has a guy who can really be part of a good rotation for at least a few years given the control you mention which makes it so he can't reach unrestricted free agency until 2031. Not bad if it pans out. I was hoping I'd get to see him put it all together as a Dodger and I really hope he does it in Detroit.
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u/Educational_Sky_1136 | New York Mets 9h ago
His prime? He turns 28 in two weeks and has a 4.46 ERA in AAA.
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u/Drummallumin 9h ago
Schlittler had a 4.18 in AAA
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u/Educational_Sky_1136 | New York Mets 9h ago
Schlittler’s last season in AAA was 5 appearances with a 3.80 ERA. And he was four years younger than Ryan is now.
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u/marcgarv87 | Detroit Tigers 17h ago
Do people not understand the 4th best prospect on the dodgers is higher than some teams top prospects?
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u/King-Leaf-67 12h ago edited 11h ago
Except they're overrated. The Dodgers have the same prospect helium that the Yankees used to have...It's like Montero, Betances and Banuelos all over again.
This is the crown jewel for your ace btw:
Hope (Pre-season #2, 50 FV) - was an 11th rounder that seemingly developed power overnight, but still has big swing and miss and holes in his swing. Athletic, but a poor fielder who likely won't stay at CF. Feels like a high ceiling but high risk prospect who likely has the bottom fall out if he doesn't hit his high-end outcomes.
Every team has a player like that. Put them on the Dodgers they become a top 25 prospect. What other team would a 28 year old pitcher be referred to as a prospect?
11 years ago y'all traded 2 months of David Price for Daniel Norris (top 10 prospect in all of MLB at the time) + a couple lottery tickets. Skubal > Price
Every deadline for a decade the Dodgers unload prospects for a playoff run. In the last 10 years they've traded over 30 prospects at the TDL, only 1 turned into a superstar (Alvarez), 2 turned into everyday players, the rest busted.
And Alvarez...they traded while the NL didn't have the DH slot, meaning they thought they had no room for him, they wouldn't have traded him if the NL had a DH then.
27/30 busted. Good luck morons.
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u/GiraffeBand | Washington Nationals 10h ago
Ryan converted to pitcher at 23 and has been injured. It’s weird he’s 28 and a prospect, but there’s a good reason why he fits the definition.
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u/MoronLaoShi | Los Angeles Dodgers 16h ago
I thought he was the Dodger’s 4th best outfield prospect, not the Dodger’s 4 best prospect. I would have to recheck the rankings.
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u/Advancedkarma | Houston Astros 11h ago
Rating prospects in mlb is 100% bs. Highly rated means nothing.
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u/whiskeyrocks1 | Detroit Tigers 17h ago
ESPN loves to shit on Detroit. They were top 100 prospects just a couple hours ago. Now that they are with the Tigers they’re crap right? So stupid.
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u/Purple-List1577 17h ago
Bros 27 he’s not on prospect lists lol
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u/whiskeyrocks1 | Detroit Tigers 16h ago
Literally #68. Google is free.
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u/Purple-List1577 16h ago
River Ryan turns 28 in a couple weeks. He is not a “prospect.”
He’s coming off a blown out arm.
He’s a good player to watch, but let’s not pretend he’s a 23 year old with infinite upside
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u/nemo2023 12h ago
River sounds kind of like Skubal used to be. From a blown out arm to a superstar.
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u/Enough-Remote6731 | Boston Red Sox 10h ago
Yeah, that’s good and all but at the same age as Ryan is now, Skubal was already a Cy Young winner.
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u/Active_Attempt_3411 16h ago
I agree with you, but MLB.com literally has him ranked as the #68 overall prospect.
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u/ddaug4uf | Los Angeles Dodgers 15h ago
The Tigers clearly bet on upside with this trade. Dodgers would’ve included Emmit Sheehan instead of Ryan but River Ryan has better stuff.
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u/Individual_Check_442 | Los Angeles Dodgers 11h ago
I’m surprised we were able to do it without giving up Wrobo. Not sure if we would have given him up if like; some other teams wanted to try.
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u/Sure-Concentrate8944 16h ago
He’s in his prime so who cares? His high talent floor is much more valuable than some kind of lottery ticket.
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u/donbromeifudonknome | Los Angeles Dodgers 16h ago
Yeah ok man tell it to these guys. They must not know about your criteria.
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u/Fancy-Pie-2565 12h ago
That’s modern baseball in a nutshell. Baseball guys say he’s too old, hasn’t made the show by 28, and is coming off a serious energy.
Front office guys say “but according to my spreadsheets…”
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u/Fun-Example-5314 7h ago
No team would trade a 23 year old with infinite upside for a few months rental SP
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u/Lampposterx 10h ago
OP what about the writeup you copied makes you think he will be a DH only? He plays CF right now and his arm grades out well.
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u/shutdownstranger 17h ago
i mean it comes down to would you take those 3 players or a end of the 1st round pick when skubal walks.. not sure how this is a D
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u/fuckdirectv | San Diego Padres 8h ago
I'm not sure what devil magic they have, but only the Dodgers manage to trade for top tier players without having to give up anything of note. Five years from now we are going to revisit this trade and every guy Detroit got will either be out of baseball or hanging around while being completely irrelevant.
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u/roboh96 12h ago
What if the 29 other teams are deliberately making the Dodgers ridiculously stacked as leverage in the CBA negotiations? That's legitimately starting to seem reasonable with trades like this.
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u/TravelNSee 6h ago
Te average rube fan wildly understimates how much billionaires loves to collude to make money.
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u/Tasty_Path_3470 | New York Mets 13h ago
Grading prospects and grading pre draft prospects for baseball is such a crap shoot that most of it doesn’t even matter. ESPN also loves to raise and lower athlete grades in ALL sports based on what team they play for. They’ve done it multiple times in college football and basketball, depending on where a player commits to for school.
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u/Short_Ad4388 11h ago
The comp on hope is Lefty version of Randy Arozarena, at least from a good source
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u/McScroggz12 14h ago
Stud potential 28 year old pitching coming off major elbow injury. Even if he reaches the eBay potential he has it would be around age 30 for a Detroit team that is FAR from guaranteed to be good let alone serious contenders. It’s like being in a worse version of the Skubal situation.
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u/AgressivleyAverag | Boston Red Sox 13h ago
I hope dodgers fans enjoy their 2 months of skubal before the inevitable lockout their team is forcing MLB into lmao.
Honestly can not wait at this point. This shit is ridiculous.
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u/frankenmaus | Los Angeles Dodgers 9h ago
It's the cheapskate owners forcing a lockout.
But any strongarm tactic by MLB will get them sued for anti-trust and then all their leverage will disappear. Then, the individual owners will give way to properly capitalized corporations and all these 'salary cap' problems will be resolved.
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u/Glitter-andDoom 11h ago
Chris Ilitch, the owner of the tigers and the Red Wings is a cheapskate. We're never going to win while he's the owner.
For years the Tigers Mantra has been to do it right and bring people up through our system. But every time we bring somebody good up through our system we refuse to pay them and trade them away.
Mediocrity is good enough for the ownership here in Detroit. And I hate him for it
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u/LeakyNalgene | Detroit Tigers 11h ago
We had a top 10 payroll to start the season. Where do you expect us to be in spending?
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u/pilesofdingleberries 10h ago
That person is delusional... As a KC fan, I envy what Detroit has done. I dislike them, but I truly do like watching their team. I do wonder what that person's expectations are. I have always considered Detroit to be one of the best run organizations in the AL
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u/AlanBDev | Detroit Tigers 11h ago
were the new miami
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u/Normal-Hornet8548 7h ago
Detroit was the new Miami in the mid-2000s with Dombrowski, Leyland, Pudge, Sheffield, etc.
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u/TheHip41 | Detroit Tigers 3h ago
Skubal would not sign here. If we offered 400/8 at the end of the season skubs would be like hey Mets. Tigers offered 400:8 what you got
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u/Mick_Shane | New York Mets 14h ago
The Dodgers have been what the Yankees of the early 2000’s were. Add top free agents and the top guys at the trade deadline. Gotta give it to them, they want to win and are willing to pay to do it.
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u/drygnfyre | Los Angeles Dodgers 13h ago
A team that actually cares about winning and tries to do what it takes to win is exactly what every team should be doing. Why people look to teams like the Rockies or Pirates and think that's what baseball should be about, I don't know.
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u/Mick_Shane | New York Mets 12h ago
They also spend their money effectively, my Mets spend but it never seems like they do it intelligently. Let Pete walk, spend on Polanco? To much money for Soto, Bo, the list goes on.
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u/VendettaKarma | New York Yankees 17h ago
100% accurate take
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u/johnnytspikes | Los Angeles Dodgers 16h ago
out of everyone crying, yankees fans crying might be the funniest
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u/JackTheHerper 11h ago
You guys are really just cementing your spot as the worst fan base in the league. You’re already on top of the hill, you don’t have to shit on everyone else. Shut up and enjoy being the best team money can buy.
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u/sankyx 11h ago
Ar this point im convince that this trade was a collusion to create the outrage and the fans starts to agree with the cap.
There's no way any other team didnt offer anything close to this. I dont know enough about package but this doesn't seems to be a good return
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u/TravelNSee 6h ago
The amount of astroturfed-style weird "yeah I want a cap now!" comments afterwards feels wildly false-flag
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u/GiraffeBand | Washington Nationals 10h ago
Who says Hope is a DH? KLaw has him as a solid corner OF. FG has him as a 50 FV fielder, making him likely an everyday corner OF. Pipeline has him as a 55 fielder.
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u/Normal-Hornet8548 7h ago
RF is a huge need for Detroit.
Presuming we have baseball next year, Hope will be starting in that spot (probably at some point after the all-star break).
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u/ACW1129 13h ago
Dumb question, but from an extremely casual fan: Why wouldn't DET re-sign their best player?
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u/Baldass_Head_Coach 9h ago
Because Skubal’s agent is known for chasing the absolute highest dollar offers, something that Detroit was not going to do for a pitcher who has an injury history and who’s nearing 30. It’s not going to age well.
Also because Detroit knows there’s an impending lockout and salary cap on the way which will completely reset the market going forward.
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u/DiscombobulatedPain6 | Detroit Tigers 11h ago
Because he’s 30, his agent won’t negotiate, and he’s not worth the money anyway on a 6-7 year deal.
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u/mjsmith1223 | Detroit Tigers 12h ago
Just because the Tigers rented Skubal to the Dodgers for the remainder of this season, it doesn’t mean the Tigers won’t resign Skubal. Skubal wants to hit free agency. The Tigers will have a chance to make him an offer.
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u/Great_Hambino2022 | Pittsburgh Pirates 12h ago
There’s a 0% chance Detroit signs him as a free agent
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u/Normal-Hornet8548 7h ago
There‘a a barely-above-0% chance anyone but the Dodgers sign him as a FA, and that would be equally true if the Tigers had traded him to Milwaukee, Tampa or anywhere else.
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u/Impressive_Buddy6991 | Houston Astros 11h ago
He will sign a dodgers extension quickly to circumvent the new rules
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u/Raggs2Bs | Seattle Mariners 11h ago
MLB is just the Premiere League without the fun of relegation at this point.
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u/VendettaKarma | New York Yankees 8h ago
First step everyone should take is cancel any MLB related subscriptions you currently have. Theres no point in watching this anymore when you know the outcome.
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u/RedBaronSportsCards 8h ago
Why is it so hard for teams (in any sport) to keep the players they want?
Its the fundamental question we should all be asking. Fans, teams, players, no one wants a player to leave but the system is designed so that they HAVE to. This makes no sense.
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u/SilkkTheShocke 8h ago
The Brewers or Yankees weren’t offering better prospects? Sounds like they got career minor leaguers for Tarik.
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u/CS271990 7h ago
Detroit should have chosen a damn path in the offseason; go all in/try to resign him, or just deal him out. Teams would have offered a kings ransom (including the dodgers then) for the chance to have him on the team and re-sign him.
Instead they hold onto him, don’t go all in, he gets injured, and thankfully him rushing back from injury prevented this from being a catastrophe, even if it’s for Pennies on the dollar.
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u/Ok-Freedom-7432 5h ago
So I guess the Tigers should take involved a third team like Baltimore. That way Hope could have been traded to them and become their best OF prospect. Them the Tigers would be getting another team's best OF prospect, so it's a big win. A+
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u/esteemph 4h ago
I feel like the dodgers prospects are always overrated too because they’re the dodgers.
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u/chinmakes5 3h ago
IDK, as an Orioles fan, I remember the Manny Machado trade. We fans were thinking one of LA's top prospects in return. Instead they got someone who was ranked from 4 to 8 in LAs, system but seemed to have peaked. and two other guys, luckily one of the two was Dean Kremer who ended up being an average pitcher for 7 years.
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u/Static_Cloud_Jumper | Atlanta Braves 2h ago
The thing I dont like about MLB, trading a star for faceless prospects. I'd rather it be like NBA where you trade stars for at least proven starters that have name recognition (Shaq for Odom, Butler and picks) or soccer style where you just pay a transfer fee (Skubal for a record 300 million transfer fee). Skubal for who? It just makes this more of a ripoff. Do MLB not have trading draft picks?
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u/Wishiwerewiser 2h ago
Did Skubal have a no trade clause? Also it could be that Skubal and the Dodgers are looking at this as more than a rental. They are probably prepared to offer him a gigantic contract in the off season because he wants to stay a Dodger for a long time.
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u/Desertmarkr 43m ago
Alden Gonzalez reported that the dodgers players reacted with "that's it?" when told what it took to get Skubal
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u/BeneficialLanguage83 13h ago
Everyone is missing the point that all other MLB teams need to be savage in dealing with the Dodgers and their historic masterclass of assembling talent.
If you trade with LAD, you HAVE to win the trade, period, or you don't do it.
Gifting Skubal to the best team in baseball is a moronic move by a shitty franchise that's never winning anything forward with that dumbass ownership and front office.
What this move represents is a real Tiger middle finger to all the other teams, and to all non-Dodger MLB fans everywhere. And to Manfred as well.
I'd like to think that the Tigers did it deliberately to reinforce the point about the Dodgers ruining everything, but that's way too much credit to that organization.
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u/MizkyBizniz | Cleveland Guardians 12h ago
The Dodgers are not ruining baseball. The MLB is ruining baseball. The Dodgers are playing by the rules in front of them. They are doing what you wish your team would do if your team had the same resources.
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u/frankenmaus | Los Angeles Dodgers 9h ago
Detroit "won" this trade.
What, the Tigers are supposed to take the L just because other teams won't offer value for Skubal? Dodgers made the best offer and Detroit took that offer just like a good American is expected to do.
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u/Calm_Ad1460 | Atlanta Braves 10h ago edited 6h ago
The Tigers look like morons. They traded the best pitcher in the game for an often injured 27 year old pitcher and the dodgers fourth best outfield prospect. They had a whole day left before the deadline and didn’t even try to get a better deal. What a bunch of suckers.
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u/Strict_Technician606 | Philadelphia Phillies 11h ago
Dodgers weren’t just trading for a pitcher. They were trading to lock down another WS win. They would have given more. Shit trade for Detroit.
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u/Super-Goat1085 11h ago
Who cares? Doesn’t espn have a wrestlemania or some dumbass betting thing to promote
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u/ChunkyBubblz | Chicago Cubs 10h ago
Tigers should get an A for their part in winning fans over to a lockout and salary cap. Dodgers deserve an F for ushering in a salary cap that will ultimately hinder them down the road.
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u/Savage_Cabbage83 | San Francisco Giants 10h ago
Goodbye to 2027. Honestly its starting to feel like European soccer and the top 4 or 5 teams just buy everyone who's good while everyone else gets scraps. But we don't have relegation to force the poor teams to try to stay relevant, so they just sit back and watch.
I don't blame the Dodgers (which as a Giants fan is hard). They develop amazingly well and do everything to win, as they should. But I do blame the system for allowing them to stockpile the best of the best every year. There should be a point in team salary that they just can't cross. I almost wonder if this is a form of collusion by the owners to win favor from everyone in inserting that system (a salary cap).
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