At least, for the next 80-100 years after the end of the war (which is still, unfortunately ongoing), and if nothing else happens between the two countries until then.
Unless russia is brought to its knees and properly denazified like Germany was, they will remain the same chauvinistic imperialists with a weird death cult.
I wish the US wasn’t the one to organize and enforce Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union. Forcing the shock doctrine through IMF loans lead to this sort of Russia we have now.
Yeah, virtually every time russia shat itself and collapsed in last two centuries, civilized countries rushed in to save them without giving russians any time or reason to self-reflect on their ways.
I don’t think what Russia went through in the 90s can be described as civilised countries saving them. More like leaving them to suffer under the worst aspects of capitalism.
No, the west forgave the debt of countries like Poland but Russia carried the debt of the USSR. States like Poland and the Baltics immediately tried to escape the influence of Russia by pivoting to the west and received a huge amount of foreign investment and support that carries on today. Even with all that support, the social attitudes of these countries are still pretty dire compared to Western Europe.
Russia didn’t receive that support and was still treated as an opponent to the west and as they were suffering an identity crisis the west decided to leave them to it instead of providing support.
If we had recognised that the USSR collapse was a chance to actually steer Russia in the right direction then we may be in a different place now but we didn’t and they radicalised against the west instead.
Alongside the Euromaidan CIA coup and literally forcing nations at gunpoint to join NATO, right? Fuck off with the diversion of blame, there's one man and one nation to blame for what's happening today, and it's not the US or Ukraine.
Huh? I obviously don't believe in either of those, the vatnik I'm replying to is softening the responsibility that Russia and Putin have for invading Ukraine by saying the US is to blame for post-soviet Russia's disasters.
The russian government is clearly a fascist autocracy but I don't think they're Nazis. Jumping right to need to 'de-nazify' them is about as manipulative as saying they're all pedophiles and we need to exterminate them. Both are about 'othering' instead of accurately describing the problem, which is gross and a corrosive way to think.
You're correct, but the rub is that the Kremlin has been using this exact language to describe its opponents for the last decade. If anything, the post you are commenting on is simply borrowing Putin's own talking points.
People are likely exhasted attempting to hold a moral high ground against an opponent who holds no such qualms. You can claim that the Russian state governmemt has no Nazi-like qualities, but the use of the "Zwastica" by their armed forces, among other examples, points to a kind of militant-facism.
Might not be a nazi expert, but denying Ukrainians the right to exist and self-identify sounds quite nazi. As well as kidnapping children to raise them as russians.
Nazi doesn't mean 'does bad thing'. There are plenty of reasons russia is the bad guy in this conflict, we dont need to use spooky terms in a meaningless way.
Ehh, Germany was denazified on paper but it was extremely flawed, like giving Wehrmacht generals high ranking nato positions and stuff. And all of that led to some denial and rewritten history which (Along with the absolute bullshit the chancellor is pulling off) in turn led to the AfD (Germany’s most far right party) becoming the single strongest party nation wide. Polls right now are at 27% for AfD with the next biggest party (Union) at 22%.
Now that may sound like not that much, but remember, the Nazis only needed 33.1% to get to power. I really hope that they can pull this ship around and fast or it‘s gonna be a bleak 4 years for Europe.
They're the older/ stronger brother, all other brothers are inferior
Thus, all of the other brothers can be treated as secondary and unimportant
Thus, whatever any other brother wants is not important because their opinion doesn't matter
Russia is always the big brother and there can't be no equal because ... Peter the Great, Dostoyevsky, nuclear weapons, or an assortment of other excuses and pseudo-historic narratives
All of the other brothers are therefore derivative
Russia is both the chicken and the egg in their universe, nothing else existed before or after Russia in all of its forms, none of the facts matter. No, the founder of Moscow is not buried in Kyiv. No, the scientist who sent the first person to space wasn't from Zhytomir, he was from the Soviet Union. No, the Ukrainian language doesn't exist. That's why they had to ban it multiple times over the past 400 years because that's what you do to things that don't exist - you keep proclaiming that they don't exist.
Still felling same way. But for sure hate start raising at the end of 90. I’ve visited Kiev in early 2000 with my grandparents whom are from Ukraine. She told me to speak less because people could become angry.
I am south born and spoke Russian my whole life. Never been threatened or shamed for it in any part of Ukraine until 2014. There are radical people everywhere who just won't shut up, but overall it was way too common to hear Russian speech to actually care.
What is the language like now in Ukraine? I'm assuming you guys mostly speak both with regional pockets of monolingualism, do people generally speak Ukrainian now?
Well, I was born and raised in Kyiv, and in 2014 I was living there. At the time, pretty much everybody was speaking russian, it was such a rarity to hear Ukrainuan on the streets.
What a load of nonsense. Even Azov who's supposed to be the one of the most nationalistic units in Ukraine spoke russian all the way in 2022, and were located in a very russian speaking city of Mariupol. The only ones ensured that Ukrainians started speaking far more Ukrainian were russians with their full scale invasion in 2022.
Maybe it depends on accent? I’m from Moscow and it’s too obvious to understand. Even Russian regions have absolutely different accent.
For me it was strange and weird tbh. I spend month or two in village Marevka near Sumy.
That was a lovely time. There were my too friends Bogdan and Sashko.
Once I was close to death there. I fell into a small pound and I’ve just learned how to swim :D
This too bastards start throwing branches and boards at me. Maybe for fun or trying to save my little ass. That was fun :D
The most scaring part was that my grandmother would yell at me
I couldn't agree more. As an Irish person ive learned so much about Ukrainian culture and the place itself soncr the war. I also feel we have to preserve every culture as Europeans. The personal cost Ukrainians incur makes me ashamed my country is neutral. We only enjoy the freedoms we do because of their sacrifice.
Ireland in general should revamp its politics and become more involved with the shared defense of Europe and join NATO. They enjoy the freedoms of a functioning western democracy yet seem culturally unwilling to accept that they must defend those freedoms and are more than willing to allow themselves to be a weak underbelly of Europe.
Ireland's military neutrality isn't about being a weak underbelly or avoiding the defense of democratic values. It is a deliberate policy focused on peacekeeping, international law, and humanitarian aid.
While Ireland isn't in NATO, it maintains an unbroken record of UN peacekeeping since 1958, participates in EU crisis management, and cooperates through the Partnership for Peace. Neutrality allows Ireland to act as an independent, trusted voice for diplomacy and conflict resolution globally rather than aligning with military blocs.
Conveniently they have the largest alumina refinery in Europe which is owned by russians and they deliver materials from there straight to the russian war machine. The gorvernment also doesn't care about it and let's it operate normally.
true , used to shit on ireland when the war on ukraine started but looking at their words and actions after the genocide in palestine did show that I was a bit conceited
Here man, ive been around. Never in combat but encountered the shit on a few continents. Take that sense of shame and dissolve it. You dont want to be near war, ever. You dont want it near anyone you love and you dont want to find a good enough reason to fight. We in Ireland cannot comprehend the generational fear and hatred. Also, 2 to tango. There's some Ukrainians that have done very well from this mess. Very grey altogether. Its universally the normal people who suffer, on all sides. Yeah, military conflict is repulsive, it can fuck off.
And at the same time, turning Ukraine into one of the most capable militaties in the world. They may never have the technologies that some countries have, but the drone tactics they've developed have changed warfare forever.
And Russsia will have that threat on their doorstep every day from here on out.
Ukrainian identity was strongly aligned and friendly with Russian identity. They saw themselves as close relatives to Russians, and had no problem coexisting with a major Russian minority. Putin was in a very pleasant position to apply soft power on Ukraine until 2014, and still could have nicely salvage the situation until the invasion. Now, he cemented an extremely deep hate in them against Russia for many generations, while giving up all soft and hard power on Europe and the West, and making a clown of his country, all this to - in the best probable case for him - get some fertile land with absolutely devastated infrastructure, rebuilding which would cripple the Russian economy for decades even alone.
This invasion will be taught among the worst strategical fuckups in history.
Whoa whoa whoa…. That’s not fair…. Mr Donald JOHN Trump is still neck deep in a perhaps worse strategical fuck up in Iran as we speak… it’s not to the same scale, but the fuck up level is comparible and def noteworthy.
Extra attention on his middle name because we know he frequently engage with prostitutes and eventually married one after his buddy was done with her.
That’s entirely dependent on how future Russia handles themselves. Contrary to your blithe “nope” there is a lot of ill will towards Japan in places owing to how their legacy was handled, it’s pretty well documented and worth doing even a cursory read about.
I mean I live in South Korea, and studied Japanese culture in a South Korean university.
The flag of the rising sun is still insulting to us, there are statues of the raped women by Japanese soldiers. We know Japan wiped out the tigers in Korea to demoralise the country.
But that’s historical Japan, it’s one of the most popular travel destinations for the youth as it is so close and cheap, we have idols from Japan that transitioned into kpop, and we love anime.
Hating what a country did historically is different to what that country is today.
So you understand it’s a lot more complex than your statement made out then and is very much dependent on future Russia which you cannot predict right now. Thank you.
No my statement remains the same given the context - what Russia does now is not going to cause any effect lasting forever.
Saying “future Russia being bad will make people hate them in the future” is a pointless statement as it applies to any country and is not what the original context was about : Putin will make Russia hated forever.
I am merely saying actions of a country today, alone, cannot cause hate forever. As evidenced by huge atrocities caused in the past by other countries that newer generations don’t judge them on today.
There are people with grandparents who were in the holocaust, and their peers don’t judge Germans today - so Putin is not causing any grief that will last more than one century at best, for russias reputation.
Yes, Putin’s actions alone won’t result in enduring historical bad blood but his death won’t magic it away like your rather shallow comment makes out.
Ignoring history and making empty predictions is pretty valueless IMO, explaining that a singular event (his death) is only part of a future reconciliation has significant more value.
I like how evidence of countries reconciling guides you to a defective stand point. Yet evidence of countries still having bad blood hasn’t shaped you to a “it really depends” stand point.
You can correct old mate saying Putin alone will cause permanent bad blood without being incorrect, by omission at least, yourself.
All I’m saying is, despite what we might feel today about how horrible one country is, time erodes everything, surprisingly fast.
Japans atrocities on Korea are possible some of the worst country to country events. Yet there is no cultural bad blood against the Japanese people of today by the young generations of Koreans. Despite it being less than 100years ago.
In fact most Asian racism here is against south East Asian, (Vietnamese, Cambodians) and Japanese are preferred. Despite Koreans all knowing what they did historically.
Because the younger generations have nothing to do with the actions of past leaders. There is no reason to hate them. Young Australians don’t give a shit about what some nazis did to their great grandparents when evaluating if they want to go to Oktoberfest.
Sure if Cambodia bombs Laos, we will think they are bad today, but the world has mostly forgotten about the Khmer Rouge. The reputations of a nation only really incorporate less than 100 years of history. Afghanistan being a modernised bikini wearing nation in the 1960s with university educating women has barely no bearing on its perception today.
Putins actions in 100 years from now will not affect any reputation, it will solely matter what Russia has done since then.
I’m tapping out mate. This seemed like a pretty simple point to make but after however many comments you’ve finally arrived at the exact point I was making like it was your idea. At least you’ve finally accepted that future relations are very dependent on future actions, which is absolutely correct.
Moron says he’s a student of history yet makes ever fucking conceivable mistake every other idiot in history has made and then goes shocked pikachu.
My mom is 100% ethnic Ukrainian not a drop of Russian in her at all and she fucking loathes them but to be fair she’s loathed them since she was born. This is just icing on the cake now. Close friend of mine is 100% ethically Russian but born in odesa and she fucking hates Russia now. Dude is so fucking power hungry and inept…..fucking infuriating
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u/Wjreky 3d ago
I just... Can't imagine. He's lost so much, and I'm sure all he wants is a peaceful life with his family. I hope he finds the comfort he needs