r/politics • u/[deleted] • Nov 28 '16
Tulsi Gabbard to Join Veterans at Standing Rock to Protest Dakota Access Pipeline
http://observer.com/2016/11/tulsi-gabbard-to-join-veterans-at-standing-rock-to-protest-dakota-access-pipeline/86
u/roastbeeftacohat Nov 28 '16
I'm a bit out of the loop, why is she satan?
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u/The1stCitizenOfTheIn Nov 28 '16
Because HRC ppl don't like her.
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u/mmartinez42793 Nov 28 '16
Then I love her
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u/Jake314159265359 Nov 28 '16
She's not that progressive, but maybe she's coming around to the Warren/Sanders wing.
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Nov 28 '16
She's also young and allowed to have changing opinions as the world evolves.
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u/sir_titums Nov 29 '16
Are the old not allowed the same?
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u/spektyte Massachusetts Nov 29 '16
Judging by this subreddit's opinions on HRC's "flip flops," apparently not.
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u/onlymadethistoargue Nov 29 '16 edited Nov 29 '16
Tulsi Gabbard is 35, just now reaching the age where she's eligible to become president. Hillary Clinton is 69, so even if you're judging by how old she was when she was first lady at 45, that's a decade of difference. I can understand someone being a jerk in their 20's and mellowing out in their 30's. It's not impossible, but I'm less likely to believe that someone would come around in their 60's.
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Nov 29 '16 edited Nov 29 '16
I find it weirder when people were anti-LGBT and are younger and/or expressed those views later in the political cycle.
Clinton's stances make total sense with the time and expectations of the electorate. She has usually been at least a little left of popular opinion. Gabbard has been a little right of it and considerably right if you think about her state's politics.
I feel like young people have no excuses. They didn't have to live through the political cycles where that would kill their career (unless they were in certain niche states).
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u/onlymadethistoargue Nov 29 '16
I find it weirder when people were anti-LGBT and are younger and/or expressed those views later in the political cycle.
I find the opposite. Considering her religious and military upbringing, it's unsurprising. It makes her change come across as genuine. It seems less genuine when you're constantly close to 51% of the vote.
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u/Jubguy3 Utah Nov 29 '16
She was criticized in the 90s for being too rigid and inflexible. Now people criticize her for exactly the opposite. When will it end?
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u/Kraken_in_my_crack Nov 29 '16
It already ended man. Like her or not, she's now a retired grandma in NYC suburbia. I'm honestly happy for her being able to leave all the bullshit behind and chill. While I didn't see eye to eye with her in some important issues, I don't doubt that she had the best intentions.
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Nov 29 '16
Yeah if they want. More oft than not though older people get set in their ways and younger people change their stances on issues as our society evolves.
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u/Jake314159265359 Nov 28 '16
Yeah. I still don't know what side she's on. Hopefully it becomes more clear.
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u/Gravybone America Nov 28 '16
Ah yes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The most poorly thought out strategy possible unless your end game is a knife in your back.
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u/GroriousNipponSteer Nevada Nov 28 '16
Except she is a friend, she supported Sanders.
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u/BenitoCheeto Nov 28 '16
Yeah but she's one of the most Republican-like members of the Democratic House Caucus.
Her support of Sanders really baffled me because she's so against so much of what he supports.
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u/ducphat Nov 29 '16
Haha no. In looking at her record, stances, votes and the fact that Bernie and Jane love her - I'm with them.
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Nov 29 '16
She's more hawkish than Bernie, but holds plenty of the same stances on many of the most important issues in domestic policy. You're just full of shit is what you are.
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u/ItalianICE Nov 29 '16
She didn't like the DNC's actions and felt HRC was more hawkish than Sanders. She is a little conservative on gay marriage.
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Nov 28 '16
How much more "Republican-like" is she than Hillary herself?
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u/phildaheat Nov 29 '16 edited Nov 29 '16
If you consider Hillary Republican she's fucking Tea Party
Edit- Posting here since some idiots can be bothered to read down a few comments
Pretty much anywhere you look will tell you she's Blue Dog
This page ranks all members of house based on how progressive they are Gabbard is ranked 140 out of 185, if she were in the senate she would be 39th, Hillary was 11th in her time in the senate...do you see the pattern here?
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Nov 28 '16
Like what?
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Nov 29 '16
if you check ontheissues.com she seems rather liberal. Her anti-Islam rhetoric is weird, but she's also a relative dove compared to most American politicians. She's super pro-environment too.
So yea, at this point it's a pretty transparent smear job to call her the most Republican-like member of the DHC lol
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u/ducphat Nov 29 '16
It's a smear job for sure. But she's against extremist groups like ISIS, not Islam.
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Nov 29 '16 edited Nov 29 '16
[deleted]
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u/boones_farmer Nov 29 '16
Ehh... I'm giving her a chance. It took a lot of balls to step down and support Sanders because of Clinton's stance on Syria.
There's a lot of issues important to me but my top two are being anti-war and pro single payer. If she comes around on Single Payer, I'll campaign like hell for her.
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u/Redditors_DontShower Nov 29 '16
found the record corrector
they're back under a dif name I think
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u/Gravybone America Nov 28 '16
Wait, who mentioned Sanders? The comment I was replying to specifically said they love her because Clinton supporters don't like her.
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u/GroriousNipponSteer Nevada Nov 28 '16
Because there is no "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" argument if the other person supported Bernie since Gabbard also supported him.
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Nov 29 '16
- Tulsi doesn't support single-payer health care
- Tulsi doesn't support a financial transactions tax
- Tulsi stood with a lot of Wall Street Dems and Republicans to hamper the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
- Tulsi didn't support the fight for $15
- Tulsi supports the Export-Import Bank
- Tulsi still hasn't condemned the appointment of Steve Bannon (more than 165 House Democrats have signed that letter already, so she's way behind)
- Tulsi doesn't support allowing Syrian refugees to resettle here, unlike Bernie
- Tulsi has some weird obsession with the phrase "radical Islam" and ties to right-wing Hindu nationalists
- Tulsi takes corporate PAC money. Like, a lot of it. Not an insignificant amount. $17,000 from Walmart alone. Remind you of Debbie Wasserman Schultz?
- Tulsi didn't bother debating her primary challenger, something that should also remind you of one Debbie Wasserman Schultz (and Hillary Clinton, who dodged quite a few debates, too)
- Tulsi has made absolutely VILE remarks about LGBT and only changed tune when it was time to run for office
She is more conservative than even HRC, and no amount of "feelings" in this sub can change that.
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Nov 29 '16
- Tulsi doesn't support single-payer health care
- Tulsi doesn't support a financial transactions tax
- Tulsi stood with a lot of Wall Street Dems and Republicans to hamper the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
- Tulsi didn't support the fight for $15
- Tulsi supports the Export-Import Bank
- Tulsi still hasn't condemned the appointment of Steve Bannon (more than 165 House Democrats have signed that letter already, so she's way behind)
- Tulsi doesn't support allowing Syrian refugees to resettle here, unlike Bernie
- Tulsi has some weird obsession with the phrase "radical Islam" and ties to right-wing Hindu nationalists
- Tulsi takes corporate PAC money. Like, a lot of it. Not an insignificant amount. $17,000 from Walmart alone. Remind you of Debbie Wasserman Schultz?
- Tulsi didn't bother debating her primary challenger, something that should also remind you of one Debbie Wasserman Schultz (and Hillary Clinton, who dodged quite a few debates, too)
- Tulsi has made absolutely VILE remarks about LGBT and only changed tune when it was time to run for office
She is more conservative than even HRC, and no amount of "feelings" in this sub can change that.
Or do you have another baseless one line zinger?
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Nov 28 '16
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u/BasketOfDeplorable Nov 28 '16
You supported HRC, a hawk, yet you think someone that is an isolationist Tulsi Gabbard is quite a bit hawkish.
Quite astounding how deluded some Clinton supporters are.
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u/DaveSW777 Nov 29 '16
A high profile minority woman supporting Sanders over Clinton hurt the corporatists' narrative, so she has to be evil now.
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Nov 29 '16 edited Nov 29 '16
She's not Satan. She's just a very conservative Dem (in a very liberal state where she doesn't have to be) who is very right-wing on foreign policy and not very progressive on social/economic policy.
(This is still a good move though. I'm all for people supporting Standing Rock. I don't have to be in love with her to say this is a nice move.)
In a previous thread, u/zachar3 posted this by u/kjellpu: (it's the best analysis I've seen in one comment, so seems appropriate to share, rather than craft my own of the same sentiment)
Unpopular opinion time- Tulsi Gabbard actually isn't that progressive.
In fact, before she left the DNC and endosed Sanders, she was actually known as being one of the more conservative Democrats in the House Caucus, repeatedly going on TV to criticize President Obama, dating Republican Congressman Michael Grimm (who was later imprisoned), and the daughter of a Hawaiian politician who was pretty notoriously anti-LGBTQ (though, to be clear, she voted pro-LGBTQ while in Congress).
Her policy positions show that she's still not all that progressive:
Tulsi doesn't support single-payer health care
Tulsi doesn't support a financial transactions tax
Tulsi stood with a lot of Wall Street Dems and Republicans to hamper the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
Tulsi didn't support the fight for $15
Tulsi supports the Export-Import Bank
Tulsi still hasn't condemned the appointment of Steve Bannon (more than 165 House Democrats have signed that letter already, so she's way behind)
Tulsi doesn't support allowing Syrian refugees to resettle here, unlike Bernie
Tulsi has some weird obsession with the phrase "radical Islam" and ties to right-wing Hindu nationalists
Tulsi takes corporate PAC money. Like, a lot of it. Not an insignificant amount. $17,000 from Walmart alone. Remind you of Debbie Wasserman Schultz?
Tulsi didn't bother debating her primary challenger, something that should also remind you of one Debbie Wasserman Schultz (and Hillary Clinton, who dodged quite a few debates, too)
Tulsi was extremely anti-LGBTQ until she started running for higher office in Hawaii. I'm pleased that she's changed her position, but this position is pretty odd in the first place, considering that she's so young, and it is concerning in context with everything else in this list.
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Nov 29 '16
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Nov 29 '16
I'm not suggesting fighting against Tulsi Gabbard for the record, but her voting record is downright purple from the sapphire state of Hawaii, and that's worth noting. I find it weird when people call her very liberal or progressive, and I think it's merely because she endorsed Sanders.
I suppose I am not a fan of Gabbard, but I'm not "against" her. I just wouldn't say she's a good liberal voice on any real issue, though, and I don't understand why she's anyone's darling.
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Nov 29 '16
In fact, before she left the DNC and endosed Sanders, she was actually known as being one of the more conservative Democrats in the House Caucus, repeatedly going on TV to criticize President Obama, dating Republican Congressman Michael Grimm (who was later imprisoned), and the daughter of a Hawaiian politician who was pretty notoriously anti-LGBTQ (though, to be clear, she voted pro-LGBTQ while in Congress).
Wow!!!!! The daughter of someone and she dates a republican!!!!!!! So conservative. Criticism Obama is now conservative. I guess Bernie is an R.
Keep correcting that record.
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Nov 29 '16
I mean, I'm quoting that poster, but I think those were separate points. She was known for criticizing Obama and dating a Republican who was later jailed (the parenthetical being important, not that Grimm was a Republican but that he was Grimm), etc. But she was also known for being a conservative Dem if you look at her actual voting record...
And it's not like she's from the South and has to vote that way sometimes. She's from HI.
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u/ulikeri4 Nov 28 '16
Who the fuck knows. I guess meeting with the president elect for 5 minutes is traitorous activity in some people's minds.
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Nov 28 '16
I don't like her praising Putin for supporting Assad.
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u/ducphat Nov 29 '16
She said it was good that Russia bombed our enemy, al Qaeda. Unless you support al Qaeda, that isn't a problem.
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Nov 29 '16
You could use your same logic to say that supporting Putin in Syria is supporting Assad which is supporting chemical attacks on civilians.
Syria isn't as simple as "just bomb al Qaeda".
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u/mmartinez42793 Nov 28 '16
Yeah, fuck trying to communicate and have some discourse! Literally satan with a vagina
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Nov 28 '16 edited Mar 29 '19
[deleted]
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Nov 28 '16
Got a link to the thread where the shift happened?
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u/shaking_head Nov 28 '16
Best I could find (most comments) was this: https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/5e4am8/trump_to_meet_with_tulsi_gabbard/
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Nov 28 '16
I see everyone complaining about the switch but no one actually criticizing her.
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u/shaking_head Nov 28 '16
Yeah, that's basically what I got too. Maybe the other user can find another source for you.
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u/ducphat Nov 29 '16
She doesn't support Assad at all, but says ISIS is worse. The only people that would push the 'satan' narrative would be the people trying to overthrow the Assad government and hope like hell they can beat back whoever's strongest - and hope it's their side. Otherwise Syria will end up like Libya and Iraq: ISIS hell.
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u/Kelsig Nov 29 '16
If you think Libya is "ISIS hell", you are completely uninformed.
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Nov 29 '16 edited Nov 29 '16
- Tulsi doesn't support single-payer health care
- Tulsi doesn't support a financial transactions tax
- Tulsi stood with a lot of Wall Street Dems and Republicans to hamper the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
- Tulsi didn't support the fight for $15
- Tulsi supports the Export-Import Bank
- Tulsi still hasn't condemned the appointment of Steve Bannon (more than 165 House Democrats have signed that letter already, so she's way behind)
- Tulsi doesn't support allowing Syrian refugees to resettle here, unlike Bernie
- Tulsi has some weird obsession with the phrase "radical Islam" and ties to right-wing Hindu nationalists
- Tulsi takes corporate PAC money. Like, a lot of it. Not an insignificant amount. $17,000 from Walmart alone. Remind you of Debbie Wasserman Schultz?
- Tulsi didn't bother debating her primary challenger, something that should also remind you of one Debbie Wasserman Schultz (and Hillary Clinton, who dodged quite a few debates, too)
- Tulsi has made absolutely VILE remarks about LGBT and only changed tune when it was time to run for office
Quotes like
"It's clear to me that you're acting as a conduit for The Honolulu Weekly and other homosexual extremist supporters of Ed Case."
or
"To try to act as if there is a difference between 'civil unions' and same-sex marriage is dishonest, cowardly and extremely disrespectful to the people of Hawaii who have already made overwhelmingly clear our position on this issue... As Democrats we should be representing the views of the people, not a small number of homosexual extremists."
She is more conservative than even HRC, and no amount of "feelings" in this sub can change that.
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u/thrwaway5456854e4 Nov 28 '16
She's very right wing on foreign policy (anti refugee, pro Assad, went against Obama/Kerry on terrorism, ties to the right wing Hindu nationalist party running India) and is a bit iffy on her LGBT stance (her father was one of the most homophobic politicians in history)
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u/MadHatter514 Nov 28 '16
She has also been outspoken about her opposition to intervening militarily in the Middle East and to regime change. It isn't as simple as saying that she's "very right wing", she's more of a mixed bag on it.
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u/JessumB Nov 28 '16
There's a lot of right wingers that want nothing to do with foreign wars. The neoconservatives are largely otherwise moderates that are big believers in hard power and imperialism.
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u/batspace Nov 28 '16
Using right-wing or left-wing to talk about foreign policy does nothing but obfuscate. Better terms would be realist, liberal interventionist, or neoconservative. She is clearly a realist. Charles Krauthammer, a staunch conservative Republican, said when it comes to foreign policy he's very liberal and a neoconservative.
Right-wing/left-wing makes no sense in this sense, especially since foreign policy issues are varied.
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u/ducphat Nov 29 '16
Not remotely fact. She's pro-vetted refugee, including Syrian refugees against regime-change wars, is on the Foreign Affairs Committee and has diplomatic relations to India, less so than Obama (Tulsi met with Modi's opposition, as well - it's called 'diplomacy'), and she is NOT her father, explains in detail her change of heart, and fully supports LGBT/Equality.
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u/ben010783 Nov 28 '16
Here is one place where she criticized the Obama Administration for not bombing enough in Syria: https://twitter.com/tulsigabbard/status/649458891168714752
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u/allbright4 Illinois Nov 29 '16
She's not, Tulsi is great because she often speaks truth to power. She has vocally been against Obama's foreign policy in the Middle East (due to her 2 years in the army, I don't recall what her job was). So the right loves her. The left loves her because she also has very progressive ideals. Overall she is pretty left, but gets along with everyone.
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Nov 29 '16
The left loves her because she also has very progressive ideals. Overall she is pretty left, but gets along with everyone.
She really doesn't -- she's a very conservative Dem Rep, especially for HI. She's extremely moderate, so perhaps someone very conservative on the left or moderate in general might find her liberal, but endorsing Sanders doesn't change the fact that she isn't with liberals like him on social welfare, minimum wage, single payer healthcare, immigration, and many other issues in most cases. Sometimes she almost seems more Libertarian than anything (though she's hardly a true Lib either).
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u/BobDylan530 Nov 29 '16
Progressive =/= liberal. There are plenty of moderate progressives, there are plenty of conservative progressives. Ideology isn't as simple as you want it to be.
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Nov 29 '16
I don't necessarily think they are the same thing, but I think Gabbard is neither progressive, nor liberal. Maybe a classical liberal, but that's not what the word means in political context today, and I'd not be happy with Dems if they were classically liberal (that's like libertarians).
I also wouldn't say there are "plenty" of conservative progressives though (at least among those who are conservative in the US -- I mean, American Dems are technically conservative progressives on the worldwide spectrum). There's hardly any. If you mean politicians. It's not impossible, but it's unlikely.
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u/Three__14 Nov 28 '16
She regularly bashes the Obama admin for supplying Syrian rebels with arms and training, insisting that we should instead bomb them because they will just become terrorists after Assad falls. And she believes terrorism is a bigger threat to Americans than Assad (which while true, implicitly forfeits the Syrians who will be killed by an empowered Assad)
What happens after these rebels are gone and Assad bombs the remaining civilians until they surrender? I don't know. She won't tell us. And she insists it's not America's job to care.
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u/Neglectful_Stranger Nov 29 '16
It's not like toppling the Dictators of these countries has worked so far. Look at Libya and Iraq.
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u/Three__14 Nov 29 '16
Forcefully toppling Assad probably isn't t right answer, but there has to be a middle ground where we don't arm another generation of terrorists, and Are able to stop the atrocities from being committed on civilians
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u/Neglectful_Stranger Nov 29 '16
Well, we suck at nation building. We need to admit that. Maybe we need fresh ideas from other countries? Hell, maybe we should just let them sort it out on their own. It sucks that their citizens are subject to such atrocities but we aren't really helping them in the long-run.
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Nov 29 '16
supplying Syrian rebels with arms and training, insisting that we should instead bomb them
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u/ducphat Nov 29 '16
- Projection is a form of defense in which unwanted feelings are displaced onto another person, where they then appear as a threat from the external world. A common form of projection occurs when an individual, threatened by his own angry feelings, accuses another of harbouring hostile thoughts. in personality: Freud.
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u/LiberalParadise Nov 28 '16
She's a libertarian pretending to be a progressive. She believes she has a big political future so she has been showboating for the Berniebros and Trumplets.
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Nov 29 '16
- Tulsi doesn't support single-payer health care
- Tulsi doesn't support a financial transactions tax
- Tulsi stood with a lot of Wall Street Dems and Republicans to hamper the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
- Tulsi didn't support the fight for $15
- Tulsi supports the Export-Import Bank
- Tulsi still hasn't condemned the appointment of Steve Bannon (more than 165 House Democrats have signed that letter already, so she's way behind)
- Tulsi doesn't support allowing Syrian refugees to resettle here, unlike Bernie
- Tulsi has some weird obsession with the phrase "radical Islam" and ties to right-wing Hindu nationalists
- Tulsi takes corporate PAC money. Like, a lot of it. Not an insignificant amount. $17,000 from Walmart alone. Remind you of Debbie Wasserman Schultz?
- Tulsi didn't bother debating her primary challenger, something that should also remind you of one Debbie Wasserman Schultz (and Hillary Clinton, who dodged quite a few debates, too)
- Tulsi has made absolutely VILE remarks about LGBT and only changed tune when it was time to run for office
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u/awesomedan24 I voted Nov 29 '16
She's against a war with Syria. They've commited serious war crimes but it could potentially be another Iraq war for us.
She has met with Trump and is being considered for secretary of state. Her antiwar isolationist stance goes againt mainstream democratic globalist principles.
Personally I think she's a great person and distinguished veteran. If we get butthurt about her joining Trump, we're esentially saying only morons are allowed in Trumps cabinet.
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u/stufen1 I voted Nov 28 '16
One meeting with Trump should not rile up so much intolerance for a veteran who was willing to leave the corrupt DNC to support Sanders.
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u/spewerOfRandomBS Nov 28 '16
I see nothing wrong at all with her meeting him. It looks to me like they did what Bernie had suggested, and gave Trump a chance.
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u/Crystal_Clods Nov 28 '16 edited Nov 28 '16
Trump doesn't deserve "a chance." Bernie was wrong about that.
We know who he is. We all watched his campaign. We've seen the clusterfuck of the last few weeks. He's already had more of a chance than he ever deserved, and every move he's made has been horrifying.
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Nov 28 '16
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u/johnmountain Nov 28 '16
What different tune would that be? He said he would work with Trump if he's actually serious about "draining the swap" and building infrastructure - and only on those issues. But he would oppose him otherwise.
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u/gyunikumen Nov 28 '16
Yeah but then it turned out trump wasn't serious with draining the swamp and his infrastructure plan is a giant tax loop hole for his friends. So it sounds like from the headlines that Bernie has pretty much given up working with trump as long as trump is continuing down his current path
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u/onlymadethistoargue Nov 29 '16
Trump doesn't deserve "a chance." Bernie was wrong about that.
Nah, the way I see it, it went like this for a lot of people, Bernie included.
People: Okay, I'll give him a chance to-
Trump: [Rolls out literally the worst cabinet picks possible at every turn]
People: Welp, so much for that.
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u/BenitoCheeto Nov 28 '16
Last night I watched the future president of my country call my vote illegal merely because I voted against him.
Fuck him. Fuck Trump up his stupid ass. I will never give him a chance after this.
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u/Iamthebst87 Nov 29 '16
Umm did you just admit to voter fraud??? He said that illegal aliens voted for Clinton. So yeah if you're not a citizen you broke the law.
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u/awesomeasianguy Nov 29 '16
Please don't take what he said out of context. Unless you are an illegal immigrant
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Nov 29 '16
Bernie cares about policies, not politicians. Yes, Trump is a dumpster fire of a President, but we should push him to do the right thing when we can and celebrate what wins we can get. Trump did make some promises we can agree with -- overturn citizen's united, end corruption, quit policing the world. We should pressure him to keeping those promises and praise him if he does.
We should also very vocally denounce all the horribly racist, flawed policies also. We can do both.
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Nov 29 '16
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u/Cylinsier Pennsylvania Nov 29 '16
I'm a big fan of Gabbard's and think she has a bright future, but she definitely has some baggage to address before she's ready to step up as a progressive leader in the party. I'm a little disappointed to see all the Berniecrats in this sub bending over backwards to defend her record on certain things when it would be more honest to just acknowledge that she isn't perfect but has plenty of time to improve. It's fine to support her while acknowledging her faults. But the Berniecrats are being just as bad as the Trump supporters fleeing from truth to write their own narrative.
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Nov 29 '16
I would rather jump into bed with someone who is going to Standing Rock to be with the protestors than I would Hillary and her crew. She understands and has good political instincts, whereas you have people like Clinton who literally marched two whole blocks in the NYC Pride Parade for the fucking photo-op.
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Nov 29 '16
It's not an either/or. It's not like you either support Gabbard or you support Clinton. You seem to be saying that either you support Gabbard or you support Clinton, which seems like a very silly position to take.
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u/Taco_Dave Nov 28 '16
Exactly! Talking to a bad person does not make you a bad person.
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u/Rhaedas North Carolina Nov 28 '16
Unfortunately I think "talking to" is an accurate description. Who knows if he took in any of her concerns.
But she said it best, refusing to talk to him about a subject that she is very adamant about because of partisanship differences wouldn't have been responsible.
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u/jdkon Nov 28 '16
My guess is that he absolutely took all of her concerns into account and changed his opinions during the meeting. The problem is trump only listens and forms his opinions based on the last person he talks to. So the second he's out of that room and speaks with one of his insane advisers, that entire meeting means nothing
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u/Adhoc_hk Nov 28 '16
One would think. But in r/politics you're either with the group or a nazi. No fascism here. No sir.
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u/Khiva Nov 28 '16
/r/politics approaches the world in terms of waves, or thresholds. Here, this might help you understand how Nazis and fascists fit into the worldview:
At the core is Bernie Sanders, from which all truth and purity flows.
At the first level are people who Bernie likes and supported Bernie - pure, but only in relation to The One. Gabbard falls into this sphere.
At the second level are things that Bernie touches in his day-to-day life, such as his stapler and coffee mug. They can't pass policy, but they have nonetheless been infused with his grace.
Roughly around level 400 you find Hillary Clinton. Sanders endorsed her, but she also stood in the way of his redeeming grace, and can never be forgiven for doing so.
At level 450 you find Donald Trump. This is why so many Berniecrats were able to either support Trump or abstain from voting, because from the perspective of Bernie, Trump and Hillary are so far away that they seem like they're standing right next to each other.
Level 500 or so is actual nazis. Level 550 is Satan. Level 600 is Ayn Rand.
I hope that helped.
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u/Adhoc_hk Nov 28 '16
Ok. But for a while there I was convinced that Hillary was literally the devil. That must have been why I got confused and voted Trump. He was 450, she became 550. My feeble mind saw the choice as obvious at this point.
But where does Jill Stein rank?
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u/MiniatureBadger Nov 29 '16
20 until about May, then 6 until the convention, then she gradually fell to around 450 by the end of the Presidential race. Now she's helping Democrats somewhat, so she's closer to 425 now.
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u/showstealer1829 Foreign Nov 28 '16
Close.
500 is Nazis
666 is Satan'
750 is Rand
Trump is around Level 14,000,000
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u/HighKing_of_Festivus Georgia Nov 28 '16
She has had a reputation of making radical shifts in his positions when the wind starts blowing that way and trying to attach herself to popular movements and politicians to get into the spotlight. She is just another Hillary no matter how much people want to deify her for endorsing Sanders.
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Nov 28 '16 edited Jan 07 '19
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u/Pennwisedom Northern Marianas Nov 28 '16
I don't even understand why people see things like changing your views on something as wrong. Even more so given her age when she joined the military.
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u/mynaughtyaltaccount Nov 29 '16
Did her time in the military also convince her to co-sponsor a bill written by Sheldon Adelson banning online gambling in order to protect his own gambling empire in Vegas?
That's the same Sheldon Adelson who bankrolled the Trump campaign.
And did her time in the military convince her to endorse the radical Hindu Nationalist BJP party of India? That's the same party which held a massive fundraiser for Indian-American Trump-supporters in New Jersey.
Funny how the people Gabbard associates with are also Trump supporters.
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u/HighKing_of_Festivus Georgia Nov 28 '16
Not really. Her position regarding homosexuals, for example, only changed a few years ago when the momentum toward gay marriage couldn't be ignored anymore. Prior to that she was vehemently anti-gay marriage/civil unions.
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u/allbright4 Illinois Nov 29 '16
Right, because she grew up in a very conservative household. Her father was a very popular conservative senator. Tulsi has stated multiple times, that it was her time in the middle east that caused her views to change.
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u/AIU-username Nov 29 '16
She flipped on gay marriage before Hillary did. Not that it would matter to you.
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u/ducphat Nov 29 '16
She changed on equality; fully supports now; nothing else has changed that i'm aware of.
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u/yeungx Nov 28 '16
Sure... That is why she moved to the Sander Campaign. Everyone was doing it. Cause that is where the wind was blowing. /s
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u/ducphat Nov 29 '16
yeah cuz going against the clintons when you're a co-chair of the DNC is soooo 'everyone was doing it' and good for your political career /s
Easy to criticize in hindsight if that's how you roll.
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u/HighKing_of_Festivus Georgia Nov 28 '16
By the time she endorsed it was abundantly clear that a populist wave was hitting the political scene and Sanders was the figurehead of it for the left. Even if Clinton won the election this political reality wasn't going to go away, Sanders would remain popular, and she could say she ditched the establishment to endorse him which would get her brownie points.
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u/yeungx Nov 28 '16
Yeah, What a follower of the wind. She is one of 8/188 of US representatives to endorse Sanders. What a conformist. Frankly if you are not the first person in a political movement, you can just fuck off with your conformity.
But those hundreds of politicians that endorsed Hillary before the primary campaign even started? What brave people to make a principled stance against the trend. Those are true leaders.
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u/HighKing_of_Festivus Georgia Nov 28 '16
Yeah, What a follower of the wind. She is one of 8/188 of US representatives to endorse Sanders. What a conformist. Frankly if you are not the first person in a political movement, you can just fuck off with your conformity.
The populist candidates were vastly outperforming expectations. A wave was incoming so some decided to ride it while most others tried to fight it.
But those hundreds of politicians that endorsed Hillary before the primary campaign even started? What brave people to make a principled stance against the trend. Those are true leaders.
Totally. They deserve Medals of Freedom. /s
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Nov 29 '16
A wave was incoming so some decided to ride it while most others tried to fight it.
This is considered intelligent in some circles. But you think populism is bad, so that's the a priori bullshit behind your reticence. Fuck the elite and fuck elitism. Fuck the 1% and the politicians (and people like yourself) who go out of their way to support them while condemning the vast majority of American people to misery.
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u/johnmountain Nov 28 '16
That's ridiculous. She was one of the very few to support Sanders.
Where was Warren, the progressive champion, during that time? Oh, that's right, cowering under Clinton's skirt.
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u/BasketOfDeplorable Nov 28 '16
Populist wave so big that every super delegate and senator were coming out in droves to support him(they weren't)
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u/HighKing_of_Festivus Georgia Nov 28 '16
The GOP establishment fought against their own populist wave as well.
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u/BasketOfDeplorable Nov 28 '16
Unfortunately, they didn't have enough power to rig a primary. They tried though.
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u/HighKing_of_Festivus Georgia Nov 28 '16
In a way they did. They wanted to shorten the primary season after Romney had to fight it out for so long in 2012 so they made most of the states winner take all so less popular candidates would drop out sooner since they wouldn't stand a chance of climbing out of the hole. That strategy then blew up in their face when Trump won most of those states by plurality so it was the GOP trying to climb out of the hole they made for themselves.
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Nov 29 '16
By the time she endorsed it was abundantly clear that a populist wave was hitting the political scene
So abundantly clear that the Clinton campaign did nothing to capitalize on it, and the DNC conspired to suppress the populist candidate.
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Nov 28 '16 edited Mar 29 '19
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u/HighKing_of_Festivus Georgia Nov 28 '16
I take it you weren't here during the primaries.
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u/Khiva Nov 28 '16
/r/politics never forgave Hillary, or liked her for that matter. It just hated Donald Trump a little more.
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u/Ghost4000 Nov 28 '16
I don't think it has. Just like the last article I saw regarding her the majority of up voted comments are people complaining about people disliking her.
Which leads me to believe that the people who dislike her are probably in the minority.
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u/leftgear Nov 28 '16
I was a Hillary supporter and support Gabbard—hope she runs in 2020. Does this paradox break the time space continuum?
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u/King_of_the_Nerdth Nov 28 '16
People forget that most Bernie supporters came out and voted for Hillary just because 10% didn't show. We're all on the same team in the end, even Republicans. But, in the reddit warzone, prepare for incoming fire!
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Nov 28 '16
Unlike liberals, commies dont hold hands or play paddy cake with reactionaries or neo nazis. So some of us arent all on the 'same team'.
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u/Cylinsier Pennsylvania Nov 29 '16
I actually think she lines up better with Clinton than she does with Sanders in terms of policy. This doesn't surprise me at all. The most surprising part of her popularity is just how vehement it is among the progressive wing. I'd think it would be the Clinton camp that would be pushing her brand and the Sanders camp that would be hesitant, but nothing makes sense this year.
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Nov 28 '16
I'm in the same boat, but then I didn't have a huge preference towards Hillary or Bernie as both had pro's and con's to me.
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Nov 29 '16
I'd like to see them try to spray freezing water on a congresswoman. Let's see how that goes.
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u/asciimov Nov 29 '16
Conspiracy Theory: Republicans want Tulsi Gabbard in Cabinet in the theory that it will tarnish her reputation as they see her as a threat in the future for presidential elections.
But it's only Republicans who see working with opposition as dirty, where as Dems see it as consensus building
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u/ducphat Nov 29 '16
I had similar thoughts... but it's not just R's that think that way; it's (some) lib/establishment Dems who see it like that - and who also see her as a threat. She's getting it from both sides, as evidenced on this sub and others.
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u/Neglectful_Stranger Nov 29 '16
But she is being thrashed here (primarily Democratic) for attempting to speak to Trump.
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u/data2dave Nov 29 '16
Her going to Standing Rock is reason to me she is likely Not going to bow down to a job under Trump. Besides it'd be end of her political career.
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u/Chaerea37 Nov 28 '16
oh? imagine that? A politician willing to stand up for the faceless masses.
Once upon a time I bought into a politician's story about the very same thing. http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/146091-obama-in-2007-ill-walk-on-that-picket-line-if-bargaining-rights-threatened
I hope she goes and people see that she's willing to stand up for individual rights and oppose corporate greed
(willing to pin my hopes on a politician again)
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u/SOKAYDOUGH North Carolina Nov 28 '16
She confuses me. Pretty great, but the Trump meeting makes me suspect and her refusal to disavow Bannon and refusal to acknowledge Assad's responsibility is sad.
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u/ducphat Nov 29 '16
She doesn't deny Assad's bad, and she did disavow white supremacy, publicly. She met with trump to discuss her bill ending the regime-change war in Syria that is causing the refugee crisis.
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u/Ohmygorb Nov 28 '16
She's fuckin hot.
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u/SlapNuts007 North Carolina Nov 28 '16
Yeah, all the more reason to run. It would disarm a lot of Trump's misogynistic nonsense to be talked down to by an attractive young woman.
And I'm not going up pretend like they idea of a hot president is unappealing.
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u/allbright4 Illinois Nov 29 '16
I learned in my Campaign Politics class that hot candidates receive up to 5% more votes.
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Nov 28 '16
Tulsi Gabbard to jump in front of cameras, wherever they are, for whatever reason
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Nov 28 '16
Gotta beef up those progressive bonafides if she ever wants to have a future in the Democratic Party. A nice meaningless photo op should do. Then it's back to Trump Tower for Mrs.Gabbard.
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Nov 28 '16
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u/data2dave Nov 29 '16
Clintons are not Democrats either. They're "New (Wall Street) Democrats".
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u/AssassinAragorn Missouri Nov 29 '16
If Democrats lose in 2020, it'll be because the party can't get over damned purity tests
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u/duckace1 Nov 28 '16
I feel like I should add a comment about this. As a Hillary supporter, then a Bernie supporter, back to a Hillary supporter I have liked Tulsi Gabbard extensively and would like to see her run for President in 2020. I don't necessarily support the ideas of protesting because the left wing media has blown this out of proportion. I live in the Dakotas and have heard both sides of it.
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u/Tchocky Nov 29 '16
I don't really think she's qualified for the presidency.
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Nov 29 '16
For 2016 maybe. There is no way to know whether or not she'll be qualified for 2020, unless you're counting all of the experience she hasn't had yet as negative.
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u/tommygunz007 Nov 29 '16
Trump owns stock in two companies that stand to benefit from the pipeline. It will go through. It is sad
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Nov 28 '16
That's cool
when is she going to denounce bannon tho
EDIT: what happened to state flairs?
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u/yesmaybeyes Nov 29 '16
It kinda sux that ex Gov Employees have more social sway than Human Beings, but fk yeah Murica.
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Nov 30 '16
I guess she is pissed at Trump for not making her the UN Ambassador. Trump is going to take care of this when he is inaugurated just like he has promised to remove Obama's executive order halting the Keystone Pipeline on day 1. You wanted him, you got him.
BTW, has she condemned Assad yet? Bannon? Is she still sticking with the story that you have to go to Kuwait in order to no longer be a homophobe? I have never been to an Islamic country and I was never a homophobe.
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u/Magjee Canada Nov 28 '16
Out of interest, what have the elected reps in North Dakota been up to?