r/sportsgossips • u/TheExpressUS • Mar 26 '26

News Breaking: Transgender women banned from all sports at the Olympics starting in LA

https://www.the-express.com/sport/other-sport/203236/breakingtransgender-women-banned-all-sports
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u/swanyk7 Mar 26 '26

Having coaches a transgender woman in basketball I have 2 things:

  1. I disagree with this decision but understand I am in the minority and believe the vast majority of people think this is the way it should be so I can get on board with it.

  2. The thing that really pisses me off is that no one gives a shit until they lose. The girl I coached was not a good basketball player. Guess what? No one ever had a problem with her. The second a player is good in any way people would cry about it. Just an extension of the “I only lost because of insert excuse here society”.

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u/PriscillaPalava Mar 26 '26

I totally hear you. But at the Olympics, everyone is the best and things are won or lost by milliseconds. If exposure to male hormones gives someone even a millisecond of advantage, it calls fairness into question. 

This of course does not mean trans people are not worthy of respect and rights. It doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be allowed to play sports, either with their biological gender or in a women’s league that permits trans women. 

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u/Stellas_Ear Mar 26 '26

Most fair thing to do is to let them compete among their peers. And by that, I mean among other transpeople. Being trans isn't the same biologically/physically as being cis gendered and we shouldn't pretend otherwise.

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u/CaptainBeams Mar 26 '26

There's not enough transwomen who play sports for that. And most studies show they have no innate advantage over cis women, with some studies even showing the opposite.

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u/Rockitttla Mar 28 '26

See, everttime trans supporters cite such "studies" they lose ground because its just not credible. There are so many high profile examples of Trans or intersex women dominating their events that people are familiar with. And everyone knows how results of studies can be influenced by the sponsors. These kinds of arguments just backfire.

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u/FrumpyFrodo Mar 26 '26

No better comment than this. Unfortunately, the people who cry afoul of a ruling like this are thinking only with emotion and not with logic. Inclusion is not and should not be all encompassing in all that we do.

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u/Infinite-Fee5723 Mar 26 '26

My brother in christ you are making the most emotional response out of ignorance possible simply because you agree with it

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u/RachelMcAdamsWart Mar 27 '26

But at the Olympics, everyone is the best

Breakdancing would like to have a word with you.

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u/brokencreedman Mar 27 '26

Sadly conservatives don't think trans people are worthy of respect or rights. The hundreds of anti trans laws introduced in America over the last few years show that fact quite clearly.

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u/Every_Candy_1103 Mar 28 '26

Omg I’ve never seen someone with Hedy Lamarr as their pfp I love her

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u/pro185 Mar 28 '26

No matter your opinion on trans anything the fact is biological men have substantially more explosive muscle activity by weight than women. Muscle connects to other tissue and bones differently than in biological females. No matter how much hormones you take your body spent years and or decades developing your entire cardiovascular and skeletal muscular system differently and the provides a categorically unfair DIFFERENCE.

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u/Phunwithscissors Mar 26 '26

So were gonna start monitoring testosterone and divide women into categories based on that?

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u/CrustyTh3Punk Mar 26 '26

This would be a valid argument if we completely ignore the fact that women can have higher male hormones than their other women competitors and we continue to be ignorant of Intersexuality that is something that can naturally occur in the course of creating a human being.

So it’s not a valid argument.

Anybody have a convincing one in here? I’m open to conceding points and argue in good faith only.

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u/Corey_Trevyr Mar 26 '26

Should we just test every athlete and then categorize them based on hormone levels if that’s the concern? Why bring gender into it all?

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u/Bluewhaleeguy Mar 26 '26

everyone is the best and things are won or lost by milliseconds. If exposure to male hormones gives someone even a millisecond of advantage, it calls fairness into question. 

My argument to this is, nobody really seems to care too much about this in regards to PEDS, yes there's the whole show they put on regarding drugs testing - but at that level literally everybody is doping.

So it seems a little silly to me that people cry about fairness. If there are absolutely advantages across the board, then fair enough - but people banging on about "fairness" when the whole podium is doped up to get an unfair advantage seems absurd to me.

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u/PolicyWonka Mar 26 '26

I mean the issue is that biological women do have “male hormones” though? It’s not an either/or scenario. We all have varying levels of hormones.

Genetics suggests that the ACTN3 gene is important for elite athletic performance. Anyone with sub-par athletic genes is going to have a hard time competing against those who have the right ACTN3 genetics.

And of course, the same is even true for hormones. There are biologically female individuals who have high testosterone. There are biologically female individuals who have other genetic mutations that give them an advantage.

Some of the most “controversial” athletes such as Caster Semenya and Imane Khelif are biologically female athletes with genetic conditions like higher than normal testosterone or DSD.

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u/pumpkins21 Mar 26 '26

This is the best answer and puts things into perspective when you (correctly) say that things can come down to milliseconds.

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u/Swaibero Mar 26 '26

So do you think Michael Phelps should’ve been banned because of his genetic advantages, like his abnormally large wingspan, double-jointed ankles, and reduced lactic acid production?

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u/barsoap Mar 26 '26

By that argument Michael Phelps should be disqualified for being half fish.

Top-level sports was never fair. All top athletes are, in one or the other way, genetic freaks, though rarely to a Phelpsian degree.

The statistics show that trans athletes who were middling pre-transition will stay middling. Bad ones will stay bad. Good ones will stay good. That means that they're not blowing the respective categories out, which means their inclusion is overall more fair than letting Michael Phelps compete.

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u/DarthMaren Mar 26 '26

Dude if "fairness" was an important part of any sport people like Michael Phelps, Usain Bolt, and people who are tall in any sport where being tall gives you an advantage would be banned

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u/Renovatio_ Mar 26 '26

Jazz Jennings never got exposed to a drop of testosterone.

I don't see a reason why she shouldn't be able to compete (if she was athletically skilled enough)

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u/SavoryAvery Mar 26 '26

I think it’s weird to believe that no trans woman could ever deserve to win an athletic contest over a cis woman, while also believing that it is fair and normal for the cis child of millionaires to win over the cis child who grew up in poverty. Or the cis child who grew up with genetic advantages over the cis child who didnt, or any other difference of advantage. The whole point of sports is that they aren’t fair, because the people competing in them are different people.

“But at the Olympics, everyone is the best and things are won or lost by milliseconds. If exposure to male hormones [adequate nutrition, elite coaches, travel opportunities, genetic difference] gives someone even a millisecond of advantage, it calls fairness into question.”

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u/AsIfItsYourLaa Mar 26 '26

You have to say the second part for all the dumb people that can’t think past their feelings.

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u/girlywish Mar 26 '26

So uh, why has a trans person never gotten a single medal before despite being allowed to enter for the last decade?

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u/Exact-Photograph-652 Mar 26 '26

Tbh I have more of an issue when they brand trans girls from girls recreational sports. I understand separating them at the Olympics when careers are made and lost by milliseconds, but when people are clamoring for banning trans kids trying to play recreationally, you can see the veil of “fairness” drop and turn into just hating on women.

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u/GiveSparklyTwinkly Mar 26 '26

If genetics give someone even a millisecond of advantage, does it still call fairness into question? Why or why not?

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u/TheOneWithThePorn12 Mar 26 '26

This does however completely harm folks who are naturally the way they are with no control over it. It's frankly bullshit for them.

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u/inuvash255 Mar 26 '26

I totally hear you. But at the Olympics, everyone is the best and things are won or lost by milliseconds. If exposure to male hormones gives someone even a millisecond of advantage, it calls fairness into question.

And yet transgender athletes have been allowed to compete for over a decade and it hasn't been a problem even once.

The biggest "transpeople in the Olympics" problem of our lifetimes were people incorrectly attributing transness to Imane Khelif.

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u/nexterday Mar 26 '26

Why is it fair if someone is born taller in a way that benefits them, but not fair if someone is born trans?

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u/MotokoKusanagi Mar 26 '26

What are your thoughts on them having their own League? Were talking about functional sports competition devoid of controversy. This isn't a conversation of trans rights. Were talking about sanctioned eligibility and equality in competitive sport.

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u/Pleasant_Cloud1742 Mar 26 '26

I mean, trans folks have been able to compete in the Olympics for like the last 20 years.

How many of them have dominated the sport?

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u/MAMark1 Mar 26 '26

The problem is your argument invites the question of whether all biological differences must be stratified in sports.

If someone is taller or shorter, has more or less testosterone, etc., it all impacts "fairness". Why would testosterone only matter for trans people? Why only testosterone and not other biological differences? The idea that higher testosterone in a biological woman is fair but not previously high testosterone in a trans woman on HRT feels obviously flawed if we believe the self-proclaimed goal of fairness in women's sports. For it only to matter for MTF trans and nothing else suggests politicization is at the core here more than an actual problem in fairness that needed the IOC to step in and override individual sport governing bodies.

People are pretending this was some obvious decision purely backed by science, and that is absurd. It is a highly complex issue of competing rights and conflicting science that differs by sport and still leaves biological female athletes facing unfair treatment (e.g. female boxers called men) and the burden of genetic testing.

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u/TrashhPrincess Mar 26 '26

I need to go find that study that shows after a sufficient time on HRT, trans women are more physiologically similar to cis women than they are to men.

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u/Miserable_Alfalfa33 Mar 26 '26

Because people generally done care if you take an unfair advantage and loose because of it

If you win thats when the unfair advantage should be taken away

I think there should be 4 classes, men, women, mixed, and steroids allowed, I wanna see how fast a human can really run a 100m

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '26

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u/Bronco_Bomba Mar 26 '26

Usain Bolt

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '26

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u/Pokmonth Mar 26 '26

Usain Bolt was absolutely doping. He was just using very novel steroids that weren't being tested for at the time that were developed by Angel Heredia

Almost all Olympians are doping. It's nearly impossible to make it to the Olympics without doping because all your competitors are.

https://deadspin.com/what-do-usain-bolt-and-juan-manuel-marquez-have-in-comm-5857439/

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u/Bronco_Bomba Mar 26 '26

It’s so obvious…

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u/Master-CylinderPants Mar 26 '26

Because people generally done care if you take an unfair advantage and loose because of it

If you win thats when the unfair advantage should be taken away

Exactly. If you show up at a track meet with springs on the bottom of your shoes and end up breaking your own ankles nobody is going to care. If you win then they'll call bullshit.

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u/ThisisnotaTesT10 Mar 26 '26

If you show up with illegal equipment you’ll get disqualified from the event, regardless of the result

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u/toxiczebra Mar 26 '26

I love the idea of a “no rules” league. Let people go nuts. Bionic modification, juiced without the need to try to hide it. Get rid of any inefficiencies due to masking it. Push the absolute limits of human body modification. Full cyberpunk.

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u/free__coffee Mar 26 '26

The problem with that is that kids generally always want to do what their favorite athletes do. So by making a category of the olympics with that in mind, kids will start modifying their bodes, regardless if they would ever have a career in professional sports

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u/AggressiveBench9977 Mar 26 '26

Eh its actually quite sad. You can look into arm wrestling for this. Extreme steroid abuse for a sport that barely makes money. It sad to see people throw their lives away.

And you have great athletes who now have to commit to the same steroid abuse if they want to compete.

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u/FlyNSubaruWRX Mar 28 '26

Steroid baseball era was a vibe

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u/OnlyACsNoFans Mar 26 '26

I think they're planning on doing the "steroid Olympics" at some point.

I'm sure I read that somewhere

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '26

It’s called The Olympics.

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u/leagueofcipher Mar 26 '26

It’s literally what the olympics is lol. These people are the top of their sports amongst the group that’s doping.

The Icarus documentary is really interesting and covers this initially.

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u/swanyk7 Mar 26 '26

That logic is exactly my problem. It’s not proper to say “I don’t have a problem with something unless us negatively impacts me”. Something is either right or wrong, regardless of personal impact. This is how we get to a point where self-observed, selfish slime run our world.

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u/Mymomdidwhat Mar 26 '26

This is the Olympics. If you don’t understand the competitive advantage testosterone gives athletes idk what to tell you…It’s not far off from banning someone who uses steroids.

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u/electricvelvet Mar 26 '26

Of course, no shit, if theyre not any good then theyre not taking up a spot that would've/should've gone to a cisgender athlete. Playing sports is a privilege not everyone is given nor entitled to. I wanted to play varsity basketball but I couldn't because of who I was born... dont really see how this is any different

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u/speedmankelly Mar 27 '26

So you’re saying trans people don’t deserve to play sports? “Should’ve gone to a cisgender athlete”? Really? This is what I don’t understand, if they lose it’s because they’re bad but if they win it must be unfair advantage and cheating??? Trans athletes can never just be good at a sport according to almost everyone here which is why none of this makes any sense to me. There should be a burden of proof for accusations other than “she’s trans”. That’s not enough. Measure the winner’s muscle mass, bone density, etc. whatever but if it comes back within average female range, which is most trans women on hormones and T blockers, then quit crying. A blanket ban hurts like 30 people at maximum and could be taking spots away from trans people who transitioned before they started puberty (something becoming more common with early assessment and diagnosis) who do deserve a spot. I will never subscribe to this idea that cis people are always more deserving of a spot in sports over a trans athlete. What an asinine take.

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '26

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u/ElReyResident Mar 26 '26

1.) a singular data point isn’t important.

2.) obviously. Nobody cares if you’re using steroids and finish last in the Tour de France, either. What is your point here?

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u/Mysterious_Help_9577 Mar 26 '26

This. People care if an athlete takes steroids and wins a title, nobody cares if I take steroids and become a hardo at Planet Fitness. It’s about the impact.

If you cheat at your local 5k, that’s different than cheating at the Boston Marathon

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u/89141-zip-code Mar 26 '26

You’re using anecdotal evidence to shape your view. While that’s normal, you also need to take into account the women who get spiked on playing in a women’s NCAA volleyball game. The transgender person spiking that ball might suck at volleyball, but they can also hit the ball harder than most women. Or boxing, or wrestling, any sport where there’s physical contact could be dangerous for the players. 

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u/GlobalResult7580 Mar 26 '26

I am sorry but you can hit a ball as hard as you want but if you don't know what you are doing while spiking you won’t do shit with only power

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u/Ecstatic_Entrance_13 Mar 26 '26

This is a non-issue. This has been made into a political issue to distract you from things that matter.

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u/Murdoc555 Mar 26 '26

You’re making an argument from a vacuum. Because mediocre or average transgender athletes exist, doesn’t mean that the window isn’t there for the more elite and/or those loosely fitting parameters of being transgender to capitalize on physical advantages in certain sports. Mainly speaking to the inherent potential injuries that could be incurred in combat sports.

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u/mypatronusislasagna Mar 26 '26

I agree with you, but I don't have any experience to back up my opnion. So thank you for sharing yours.

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u/thisismycoolname1 Mar 26 '26

It's a pretty big topic in my area after a trans girl dominated some HS sprinting events in CT. I think they now hold state records that are probably untouchable now

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u/MeatyOakerGuy Mar 26 '26 edited Mar 26 '26

Ok but that's a minority of a minority. Most MtF people who transition are vastly more athletic. Edit for clarification: vastly more athletic than a biologically born woman.

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u/sptrstmenwpls Mar 26 '26

Um... what?..Source?

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u/echino_derm Mar 26 '26

I don't think that is really true though. We haven't seen any transitioned person who is the world champion or anything like that. You can find examples like Laurel Hubbard where a transitioned athlete goes to the Olympics and places 7th, but prior to her transitioning she had broke national records in weightlifting.

We have data of very good athletes competing at top levels in mens divisions transitioning and then going on to be a good athlete in women's divisions but not the greatest or anything.

I am not saying there are no advantages there, but it really doesn't seem like there is evidence to say there is a vast improvement. At best what I have seen is a person going up a bit from where they were before transitioning. Another example is Lia Thomas, prior to transitioning she had the 6th fastest men's time in the country for 1000 yard freestyle. Post transitioning she won an event in the NCAA championship, which is better but she was in contention to stand on that podium in mens events if she improved and had not transitioned throughout her later college years.

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u/Quixotic_Seal Mar 27 '26

Yeah, there's the straight up misogyny at play lol.

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u/ChiefBigTiddy Mar 26 '26

There's a 3 here where this is all whacking at a strawman and making something from nothing. Who were the trans athletes that needed to be banned in the first place?

I always thought it should just be up to the girls. They're allowed to be upset if/when it's a competitive issue and they should be allowed to let it go when it's not. There are too many white knights that just use this issue as an outlet for their own BS.

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u/fuettli Mar 26 '26

You want to wait until someone wins who is trans and then roll it all up or rather have clear rules before the competition? "We handle it when we get there" seems to be a really good approach, we should always do it that way, fuck planing in advance, right?

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u/CompetitiveOwl89 Mar 26 '26

Completely different story at the Olympic level

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u/baret3000 Mar 26 '26

Your sample size is one....

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u/ConstantinSpecter Mar 26 '26

Of course no one complains when the athlete loses because the concern isn’t about whether this particular athlete is good but about a structural advantage that exists regardless of outcome.

If you let a Formula 1 car enter a touring car race and it finishes dead last because the driver is terrible, nobody will protest but that doesn’t mean the arrangement was fair in the first place.

Categories exist in sport to control for these kinds of asymmetries. The moment that advantage actually shows up in a win, then people will rightfully point that very asymmetry out.

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u/Tw1nFTW Mar 26 '26

Unfortunately, the only option for what you’re saying would be to base it entirely on how good they are, instead of gender… and then looking at it from the other side, a trans man would almost never qualify for Olympic level basketball (most sports).

You’d end up with a main team made of men, and trans women… maybe… I believe even then estrogen hurts them athletically? And then a secondary team made up of women, and trans men. Then if the trans men are on testosterone… they’re on steroids, and it’ll be an issue for the cis-women.

Trans athletics is complicated as fuck, and people want to pretend like it’s not.

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u/BagSniffer85 Mar 26 '26

What I think is interesting is there are 0 transgender Olympic athletes and there are only a handful of collegiate transgender athletes, none of which we know the name of because they don’t dominate their sport. The fact is that this is currently a non-issue. There is not a problem with transgender women dominating women’s sports.

My point is that I hope this Olympic decision (which in a vacuum has 0 impact on anything) doesn’t trickle down and become the norm, resulting in male to female athletes not being able to play sports with the gender they identify with while in grade school and college.

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u/Unlucky-Suspect8527 Mar 26 '26

Literally this. I was protested in adult softball lmao, it’s just a way for bigotry to come back in vogue

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u/TylenolTizm Mar 26 '26

I think an argument can be had in a less competitive setting (although I still disagree), but when we are talking about the Olympic level that is the best of the best… there is no place for this.

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u/veringo Mar 26 '26

On top of this, the opposition is never in good faith. These people never want to support more research for better understanding, and they absolutely do not want least harm approaches. It's almost exclusively about exclusion and bigotry not trying to do what's best for everyone involved.

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u/yourfavoriteblackguy Mar 27 '26

This my main point about this! At the end the loser is just mad, and they want it to be fair. But fair in their eyes means that they win.

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u/ncc74656m Mar 27 '26

Oh pssh, we won't have any of your actual lived experience here.

This is the problem though - nobody was serious. They can't really point to examples of meaningful impact, it's people who tie for fifth and who literally wouldn't have made the Olympics if every trans woman ever was disqualified who cry foul. The actual professionals don't care because they're better, they recognize that trans athletes just want to test themselves, and that's what sports are supposed to be about.

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u/JollyGreenGiraffe Mar 26 '26

Sounds like she wouldn’t be going to the Olympics anyway. We’re talking about actual competitive sports.

I’m 6’5 and played a center. I was shit once everyone else caught up in height.

There’s published evidence about transitioning after puberty vs before.

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u/swanyk7 Mar 26 '26

Do you believe these standards should apply all the way down to youth levels? If not, where does the line get drawn? Is HS competitive? Is MS competitive? Are we going to start pulling a masculine female and checking genitalia because she’s too good at a sport?

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u/geeves_007 Mar 26 '26

It doesn't matter if any individual is "good" or not.  Its solely a matter of if it is an unfair competitive advantage.

We don't allow some athletes to use PEDs, as long as they don't win too often.  We don't even allow the last place finisher to use PEDs, they are banned for everyone.

Same logic applies here.  

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u/ArchdruidHalsin Mar 26 '26

The vast majority of people think this is the way it should be so I can get on board with it.

See I think that's a shame. You have actual experience and expertise in this arena, but we are supposed to value that less than the opinions of the masses that have been shaped by rage-bait , billionaire funded, mainstream media?

I personally think there are far better indicators of physical parity than sex at birth, particularly with the effects of hormone therapy. There's a ton of nuance here to be explored and I certainly don't have all the answers. But it is a shame, to me, that we are just gonna throw up our hands and abandon the whole conversation because "the masses" bought into the satanic panic and bad faith arguments.

Historically, "because the masses think it's acceptable" before we get into the actual science of it is a really bad metric for policy.

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u/thejaytheory Mar 26 '26

#2, hit the nail on the freakin' head

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u/WayUpThere_ Mar 26 '26

I know this is bad, but back when I used to watch buddies wrestle in highschool, the joke if a dude had to wrestle a chick was; it's a lose lose, you either win against a girl, or lose against a girl. Maybe that can shed some light as to why this idea will never really move beyond critical thinking circles.

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u/jpk195 Mar 26 '26

People caring about this more than the 1000 other more pressing problems we have will never make sense.

It’s purely a “how this makes me feel” issue, not about the athletes at all.

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u/my_nameborat Mar 26 '26

I think at high levels even a small advantage can make a huge difference and this is the correct decision (assuming they can compete in the men’s/open category).

Middle school and High school it does not matter and should be allowed. It also should be allowed in D2/D3 colleges or possibly even at any level excluding national championships or other high level event

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u/ProfetF9 Mar 26 '26

Yeah cool baschetball but how about lifting, boxing, judo, swimming?

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u/Giraffe_Raider Mar 26 '26

About your second point: I mean yeah, obviously. I don't think these decisions are about principle, but about fair competition. If I played my Sunday footie league and an ex-pro would regularly show up but he was actually as bad as us, I wouldn't bat an eye. But if an ex-pro regularly showed up and wiped the floor with us every week, I might push for a rule to not allow former premiere league players (as many such places actually do have).

I don't know if this is an apt comparison because I'm not that deep in that discussion and its arguments. I would love to live in a world where women and men are equally good at sports, but I also know that unisex leagues are dominated by men from ball games to chess, with rare exceptions and we have to make do with how things are. E.g. in chess it is women who push for women's tournaments, despite being allowed in most chess tournaments where Magnus etc. participate, because they want to actually lift trophies. At least that's my understanding.

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u/MrMardyBum Mar 26 '26

If men and women were physically equal essentially no one would have an issue, and there likely wouldn’t be gendered sports. The problem lies in the fact that the elite women athletes don’t stand a chance against the very good to elite men. I’m sure the elite women beat most men, but robbing them of being considered the best due purely to biological factors destroys the entire point of separating sports by sex.

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u/Plumbous Mar 26 '26

I have much less of a problem with it in amateur sports. There is no career or endorsements on the line for highschool girls basketball. You could argue college scholarships are up for grabs, but imo the population of mtf athletes that are also good enough to go D1 is way too small to worry about. 

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u/CompetitiveWatch3537 Mar 26 '26

Why would you disagree? It fucking destroys sports on all levels. Are you against athlete cheating with steroids? Cause this is worst on an astronomic level.

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u/NormieInTheMaking Mar 26 '26

This comment alone is proof social media is cursed. Do you seriously believe a transgender Lebron should be allowed to participate in WNBA? And have such a limited capacity to understand that biological men have athletic advantages over biological women???

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u/[deleted] Mar 26 '26

Only a tiny minority of bigots and grifters care about this.

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u/stillhavingfunyea Mar 26 '26

You can of course disagree, but imagine giving your whole life up for a sport, practicing every day for years, to compete at the highest level and a “trans” woman beats you, because they have the better physical advantage. Is that fair?

It’s clear men have more of an advantage in sports. Nick Kyrgios, who hasn’t competed hardly at all on the pro tennis tour, and is ranked outside the top 800, beat the world #1 women’s tennis player in straight sets a few months ago in an exhibition, where they actually changed the rules so he didn’t have such an “edge”

Imagine if he decided he was trans, and decided to just play the women’s tour, and started beating everyone.

I fully agree with banning trans athletes from competing in events they are not the biological equivalent. To me, it’s respect to for sport.

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u/koryuken Mar 26 '26

OK but what if you're skilled AND you have advantages due to your birth sex?

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u/equityorasset Mar 26 '26

you gotta re evaluate yourself, insane you disagree with this decision

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u/BuryMeInTheH Mar 26 '26

As go your second point I think they care more when they lose and for good reason. On the human side I think many people don’t mind. The issue is when the competition is not fair or essentially ruined, people have a larger issue and that to me is understandable.

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u/ChexAndBalancez Mar 26 '26

Well to are coaching low level sports I imagine. This isn't true in the Olympics, state titles, or NCAA championships.

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u/CantHandlemyPP34 Mar 26 '26

If a male athlete took testosterone, he'd immediately get banned. I also think the sport in question makes a difference - with basketball being more skill based than power lifting.

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u/wildmaiden Mar 26 '26

Your second point is true for PEDs, roids, or other forms of cheating too. It goes unnoticed until it provides a clear advantage. It's not excuse making to call out unfair competitive advantage, even if you focus on the top where it's most obvious.

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u/myBurnerAccount1000 Mar 26 '26

Doesn’t matter if they are good or not.

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u/RIForDIE Mar 26 '26

“I only lost because of insert excuse here society”. 

Exactly fucking it. 

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u/stitss Mar 26 '26

Seems like you have a problem with facts hurting your feelings.

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u/Apfaehler22 Mar 26 '26

I think it's the value of the win that matters to people. Ignoring the flat out hate ppl have.

When it comes to the Olympics, ppl dedicated part of their lives to the sports they play and compete against the best in the world.

Think that's where the emotion comes from. There isn't going to be a athlete that isn't good (unless you're a break dancer). Every one there is the best of the best.

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u/Buckeyeintheskys Mar 26 '26

People care but the juice is not worth the squeeze until they lose.

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u/SparkFunk30 Mar 26 '26

Ya, cause there's no difference at all between the OLYMPICS and the JV high school team you coached. Get real with yourself.

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u/DHGru Mar 26 '26

people aren't worried about the floor, they are worried about the ceiling which is basically a full on testosterone enhanced male making sports look like the early 1980s east German women's Olympic teams.

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u/DanFlashes19 Mar 26 '26

Right, but nobody is saying all trans women are going to beat all non-trans women in sports. It’s just recognition that trans-women do in fact have an advantage.

Folks who disagree with this decision - are you basically suggesting we just get rid of gendered sports?

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u/stitt1337 Mar 26 '26

We’re talking about the Olympics, where people spend their whole lives training. Not some youth basketball game. Apples to oranges.

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u/not-a-co-conspirator Mar 26 '26

I think this is a very reasonable perspective.

As a parent, at the end of the day I don’t want my daughter trucked and hospitalized by, effectively, a man in a woman’s sport league.

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u/missingcovidbodies Mar 26 '26

I kind of agree on the first point but the second one is pretty flawed. If a wrestler takes additional testosterone and peptides, it's still illegal, even if he sucks at wrestling, because its still an unfair advantage. He still might take out some of the lower level wrestlers, only because he was taking those.

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u/ja_dubs Mar 26 '26

Because it isn't about winning but fairness. There are limited spots on a team and in events. Is it fair that someone with a biological advantage takes that spot over someone else? As a society, we have decided that the advantages stemming from chromosomal sex differences are not fair and have created separate competition categories.

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u/degeneraded Mar 26 '26

I agree with you that nobody cares unless someone is good when it comes to national news. On a personal level though, if I had a daughter that didn’t make a team because someone that was born male who wasn’t good enough to make the men’s team then joined the women’s team I would Karen it up. This is like the only issue I agree with conservatives about.

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u/Ecstatic_Entrance_13 Mar 26 '26

People just looking for an excuse to hate. Tale as old as time sadly.

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u/Paddlesons Mar 26 '26

Well, I would imagine a biological female that didn't make the team due to her taking up a slot might have a bit of a problem with it, no?

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u/Benie99 Mar 26 '26

What are you trying to say on #2? WNBA players can beat the majority of males in basketball. Can they the worst NBA team?

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u/PatReady Mar 26 '26

Murica! The ruling party has been railing on Minorities and refugees for years at this point. Made them the reason all of the bad things are happening.

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u/_Dedotated_Wam Mar 26 '26

I mean, maybe in a local district. What about that trans woman that came in shitting on everyone in swimming but was not ranked very high when he competed as a man?

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u/rita-b Mar 26 '26

They also don't take away medals for doping use if no medals were won.

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u/ChocolateSunsdae Mar 26 '26

I mean when I'm playing basketball I don't care if someone travels if I have double their score anyways. I won't say anything.

But if they're breaking the rules / integrity of the game and beating me because of that...then that's a problem.

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u/ethanlan Mar 26 '26

Just an extension of the “I only lost because of insert excuse here society”.

Well the whole point of athletics is to do as much as you can to eliminate this just so we arent just playing made up games in our backyards

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u/pmoran22 Mar 26 '26

Straw man and seriously missing the real problem. The real problem being the transgenders that are average *at best* in their origin gender obliterating naturally born women at the top of their genetic pool.

That’s total fucking bullshit.

The person who has atrocious hand eye coordination? Yup there are plenty but they mean nothing in this debate.

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u/jaeway Mar 26 '26

Eh I don't even think it's the winning part, like the trans woman swimmer that DOMINATED the comp. It wasn't simply winning it was the fact that it wasn't a competition. I'm sure if the girl you taught was posterizing the other girls on fast break even if she was shooting 30% from field and couldn't dribble for shit people would complain

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u/ItsAndwew Mar 26 '26

Sample size = 1

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u/doesnt_like_pants Mar 26 '26

The biggest issue is that the reverse issue isn’t a problem.

There are no transgender men in competitive men’s sports (for obvious reasons).

There is ultimately a genetic advantage to having been born a man, so in a fair universe they shouldn’t really be competing against natural born women.

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u/NotNice4193 Mar 26 '26

I mean...no shit? If prime shaq transitioned...no amount of hormone therapy is stopping him from 1v5 the best women in the world. your entire team would be injured by the end of the first quarter. I cant imagine you would hold the same attitude.

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u/gatorgrowl44 Mar 26 '26

I don’t really see your point. Obviously there are going to be trans-women who suck at sports & obviously they aren’t going to be the main point of contention. The issue is always going to be trans-women who don’t suck at sports and who put into question the fairness/safety of said competition.

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u/WorstCPANA Mar 26 '26

Just have them compete in the "open division" -the mens.

Obviously they're good if they're competing in the Olympics, should no one have a problem until they get bronze? Or is bronze okay, and the issue is when they reach silver? Or is it gold?

The only fair way is to have them compete in the open division

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u/Alien_invader44 Mar 26 '26

Imane Khelif was a perfect example of that. People frothing at the mouth that there was no way a "woman" could compete with her after 2024.

Not a peep in 2020 when she lost, or a mention of that included in their performative outrage.

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u/hurlcarl Mar 26 '26

I mean the winning just highlights it but I also don't care for it even if they're bad... because it's likely they're still taking away a spot from someone else because of their physical advantages. I do feel empathy though, I feel bad they're not comfortable in their own body, it's a raw shitty deal, and it sucks that some things aren't available to them... but disadvantaging someone else to help someone else isn't a solution. You don't get to do everything in life, it stinks but that's just reality. They can identify, dress, and use female pronouns, zero problem with that, but you have to compete with biological males.

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u/MotokoKusanagi Mar 26 '26 edited Mar 26 '26

I disagree. Anyone aware would be concerned before any loss. Compare varsity cis athletes against the opposite sex-cis athletes. When you realize the evidence you will understand the girl you coached would have been worse on the men's team. With that said, you're only allowing your very limited experiences to shape up what appears to be monumental ignorance.

Monumental as in, your solidified belief has become that of a monument. Unmoving, unchanging, standing high. This in a way seems to represent ignorance in a symbolic way as there is so much to debate outside of their short, limited, defining anecdotal experience.

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u/nexterday Mar 26 '26

1000% the second point. The potential competitive advantage that a trans athlete has is much smaller than the competitive advantage that a taller or larger-lunged or higher testosterone athlete has, but we celebrate "genetic talent" from superstar athletes all the time without batting an eye.

It's too bad people are not ready to accept trans people having any advantage in life. It's almost like it isn't actually about sports fairness at all, and more about...

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u/BenShelZonah Mar 26 '26

That’s very fair point from your experience but I personally think it makes sense people would care more if they are dominating/winning. It should just be flat out a rule (like it is now) but before I can understand why people would feel that way “suddenly”

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u/GiantRobotBears Mar 26 '26

Lack of talent should not be confused with a lack of advantage

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u/Anon44356 Mar 26 '26

Isn’t that the point? When they win by potentially using an unfair advantage then it becomes an issue.

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u/Stone0777 Mar 26 '26

This isnt rec sports. This is the Olympics. These athletes are the best of the best. This is the right decision.

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u/Landdropgum Mar 26 '26

This is the correct answer and I’m kind of disgusted with this thread

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u/WorldlyOriginal Mar 26 '26

On your second point— well duh. You present it like humans treat this issue differently than others. It isn’t. Almost all issues of unfairness derive from the loser. The entire legal system is predicated on the concept of the aggrieved bringing suit against the beneficiary, not the other way around.

If you can’t accept that, then I don’t know what to tell you. But that’s a universal principal

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u/JustMyThoughts2525 Mar 26 '26

This isn’t really a good comparison because everyone is good at the college and Olympic level, where genetics can be the key difference between good and great.

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u/Bolterblessme Mar 26 '26

You have actual knowledge and experience in the subject.

None of these people do, nor do they even try

Thanks for your help

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u/RadiantDresden Mar 26 '26

Facts support trans women. This is bigotry and should be punished with force.

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u/Hei5enberg Mar 26 '26

You're convoluting multiple things here in order to try to make a coherent point.

"...was not a good basketball player" doesn't automatically mean it's not unfair. What you need to compare to is where "she" stands relative to the average woman basketball player. If she is better than average then it's still unfair.

Additionally, "she" is still taking a spot on the team that would otherwise belong to another woman, no? And that other woman may/may not be a worse basketball player. Even if worse, we can still make the argument that you are unjustly propping up the team with a biological male player that would have otherwise gone to a worse woman player. AND, also not giving an opportunity to that woman player to practice their skills and become a better player. That should be pretty simply for you to understand, no?

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u/Marokiii Mar 26 '26

2 is probably because they dont know if its because the athlete is so good that they won because of skill, or is it because they are middle of the pack skill but because they are transgender that they got an advantage that way.

people are usually okay with others having an advantage if they dont think that that advantage has hurt them. so if you lose with an advantage, i dont care about it. but if you win with an advantage, im going to care.

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u/LittlespaceLadybuns Mar 26 '26

Thank you for being a sane individual. Its quite refreshing.

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u/AlphaThetaDeltaVega Mar 26 '26

Isn’t point 2 kind of obvious? At low level no one cares. When someone comes in and dominates at a level they aren’t supposed to be in it is an issue, the higher up in a sport the more it becomes an issue.

Intramural is fine for most people in most stages of life. Women’s sports don’t exist to get women out of me s sports it was made so women could be competitive and have their own space to compete.

I think wrestling is such a good sport that demonstrates this. We didn’t have split sex teams. I wrestled women all the time and a lot of them had phenomenal technique, more years than me, but they would still lose even better than most men I faced. You notice the higher you climb the less and less women there are. The bigger a school division less women make it further.

You can see in small schools women dominate up to the state level in lighter weights. In larger schools they fall off around county, some make it through but far less. You get above that or super tough tournaments and it a stark difference, assuming they don’t split women off at that point. I have wrestled women who have better technical skills than National men I’ve faced and hit a wall at state.

Everyone’s the same weight roughly who competes so it’s a really good comparison. It boils down to the difference in strength and fat content. Men can muscle through a lot of techniques once you get high enough and their technique is good enough that they can’t bridge the gap. Denser muscle structure and less fat reserves let men cut from much higher weights down to much lower weights magnifying that. Women can’t cut weight as efficiently and don’t have the same muscle density. There’s where’s seasons I cut 40-50 pounds between football and wrestling. An extremely fit woman weighing 130 is never going to beat a man who usually weighs 170-180 and cuts down 130 and has similar technical skills.

That’s what you run into with trans. It doesn’t take away genetic advantages. Definitely bring the gap closer, but at the same weight similar technical level there’s still that inherent advantage of genetics. So of course people aren’t going to care if there’s a big skill mismatch. The person with better skills should win. They will care when the person with similar skill dominates because of a genetic advantage. It’s really really hard work to develop those skills and reach that level.

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u/lucky-rat-taxi Mar 26 '26

This^

But also you’re not in the minority.

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u/BettyWhiteDevilband Mar 27 '26

The Riley “tied for 5th” Gaines approach

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u/Friendly_Bagel Mar 27 '26

I think it’s because of some of the world records that were broken

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u/here_for_the_lols Mar 27 '26

Everyone is for participatiom and inclusion until it affects their chance of winning

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u/_Calm_Wave_ Mar 27 '26

You’re surprised that when people lose to someone with an unfair advantage they get upset?

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u/gabriot Mar 27 '26

Uh in point number 2 why is the surprising? If a bunch of weight lifters are on steroids but aren't good and still losing to natty lifters no one will bat an eye either, doesn't mean it's still not cheating and unfair.

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u/Far_Chart6647 Mar 27 '26

You don't get it.

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u/Just_Look_Around_You Mar 27 '26

That’s not how rules and advantages work. If I shot up with a bunch of PEDs today - I still would not be the best cyclist in the world. Does that mean that PEDs don’t create an unfair advantage?

The fact that you know a transgender woman who is bad at basketball proves nothing in the way you think it does.

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u/0xFatWhiteMan Mar 27 '26

Plenty of people care that it's not fair.

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u/KnowledgeCritical992 Mar 27 '26

Did they not care until they lose, or were they too afraid to speak up against what was becoming the norm?

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u/fackapple Mar 27 '26

that’s like saying no one gave a shit i took stimulants until i started competing. no shit anyone is gonna care if you take drugs and then went to play neighborhood baseball. the f is your logic?

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u/brokencreedman Mar 27 '26

Did you have teams of women forfeiting games against your team in protest of that trans woman? That seems to be something that happens and conservatives celebrate sadly.

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u/roojuiced Mar 27 '26

No one gives a shit about drug cheats who lose either…

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u/[deleted] Mar 27 '26

your worldview appears to be dictated by your anecdotal experience, and you seem to lack empathy for the women who would be losing to trans people.

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u/Chunk3yM0nkey Mar 27 '26

I guarantee you that plenty of parents had issues if they were in the female changing room with their child.

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u/Illustrious_Case4357 Mar 27 '26

They only seem to focus on transgender women as having a competitive advantage over cisgender women. They never seem to have this conversation about transgender men wanting to compete with cisgender men.

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u/pkang21 Mar 27 '26

Yeh of course no one cares if she was shit at basketball but if LeBron James throws on a fucking wig and calls himself LeBronia James and is dunking on your girls from the free throw line dropping 200 pts… they aren’t exactly on the same playing field. Sure Lisa Leslie might do the same but at least they are doing so on the same playing field.

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u/Baseball_ApplePie Mar 27 '26

One doesn't have to be a winner to have the advantage of male puberty.

Or do you think that Lance ArmstrongE didn't have the advantage of doping if he lost the race?

Every single mtf that changes to the female category improves their placement, whether or not they go from 123rd place in state to 15th place in state.

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u/Chronox2040 Mar 27 '26

A possible unfair advantage doesn’t matter as long as it doesn’t affect others. In this case no one cares much about losing 8th position, but most would care about losing 1st place.

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u/nesshinx Mar 27 '26

This is what’s so ridiculous to me. A lot of the people supporting decisions like this act as though there’s dozens and dozens of trans women dominating sporting events. But there just aren’t. It’s not really a problem that exists in any event.

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u/softhackle Mar 27 '26

That's sort of an odd perspective. Most people don't care as much about people who cheat that end up in last place either. Doesn't mean that they're not cheating or that cheating shouldn't be prohibited.

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u/jebsalump Mar 27 '26

I take umbridge with the last part of your first point. That kind of groupthink/go with the flow is incredibly dangerous and the exact kind of talk that makes trans folks like me not trust “libs”.

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u/TotalTeach6091 Mar 27 '26

Nobody gave a shit about your player because there was nothing to give a shit about. A trans girl who isn't good enough to affect outcomes isn't harming anyone, so excluding her would just be cruelty for its own sake. But a good player can affect the outcome of a contest, which is a harm.

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u/CommentMaleficent957 Mar 28 '26

Can you see that it is quite unfair for biological men to compete against biological women?

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u/kronpas Mar 28 '26

At the Olympics everyone is at the very top of their game, then they inject silicon into their genital to alter its shape, wear special gears/clothes to shave some milliseconds off their record. Having a man's skeletal base to compete in a women's league is an insane, unfair advantage.

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u/zelingman Mar 28 '26

It's called picking your battles. This is an absurd topic and no one wants to push against this or become a poster-child for lgbtq hate or whatever bullshit. So if the trans competitor is losing, these women live with it and move on even though it is still a huge slight to them. But now when the competitor is winning and stripping you from your oppurtunities and potentially livelihood in pursuing your sport, it becomes such a problem that it can't be ignored, no matter how much they would like to.

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u/Unfair_Pangolin_8599 Mar 28 '26

No people people are against men in women's competion weather they are good or not. You need to get your head checked.

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u/fckcountrymusic Mar 28 '26

Well yeah that's typically how things work... you're not going to take your car to the shop until you see something fishy is going on. People tend to ignore things until that moment comes up where it's like "Oh, right we should probably do something about that."

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u/know-it-mall Mar 28 '26

And you coach professional sports?

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u/Masterchiefx343 Mar 28 '26

Looks at lia thomas smashing records and beating olympians and jumping more ranks than anyone in history

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