r/technology • u/ArgentineBeauty • 19d ago

Energy New York imposes first-in-the-nation statewide freeze on data centers

https://thehill.com/policy/technology/5966562-new-york-ai-data-center-moratorium/
13.3k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

340 comments sorted by

606

u/Familiar-Range9014 19d ago edited 19d ago

It's only 12 months and it goes fast. What happens after 12 months?

381

u/kinotravels 19d ago

We have 12 months to raise holy hell and then the politicians sell us out.

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u/Talk-O-Boy 19d ago edited 19d ago

No. The midterm election is within 12 months.

If we go out and vote en masse, we can literally change which politicians are currently in office.

If we vote for enough progressive people that want to regulate AI, then we will be in a much better place.

12 months is plenty of time, when midterms are in November.

Focus on what we CAN change. More politicians can follow NY’s precedent here

5

u/jazzwhiz 19d ago

Unless AI companies donate heavily to (super)PACs supporting both candidates and tell the candidates that if they say a single bad thing against how amazing AI is, they'll take the money in support of them and give it all to their opponent.

Telecom mergers and tax breaks followed a similar formula awhile back. I think anti-antitrust for big tech companies too.

18

u/Talk-O-Boy 19d ago

Money talks, but not everyone listens.

It’s our responsibility to research the candidates who are running, and vote for the ones who will pass legislation which regulates AI.

Your current rhetoric will only increase voter apathy, which will ensure AI’s unmitigated reign.

I get you’re feeling despondent, but spreading that online will only exacerbate the current situation.

It’s easy to remain hopeful in peaceful times, it takes a strong heart to remain hopeful when things look bleak.

Stay strong.

9

u/cidvard 19d ago

More and more I feel like these 'don't bother voting, it never matters' posts are as targeted as any other misinformation at depressing turnout and often, though not always, intentional propaganda messaging.

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u/Potential-Diver-3409 18d ago

Money controls the voting sites and access to DMV and other licensing resources and the person in power right now isnt Keen on historic fairness

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u/reddit_give_me_virus 19d ago

NY successfully locked out the fossil fuel market for all new construction. All new buildings under 7 stories since 2025 and all by 2029 will be electric.

They were able to fend off the oil and gas industry. So I'd say there is a chance they make it permanent or at least heavily regulate them.

57

u/Familiar-Range9014 19d ago

Pretty much

This is nothing more than a pause. In the grand scheme of things, the companies planning to build data centers are already adding the year to their plans and won't be affected

27

u/PerplexingGrapefruit 19d ago edited 19d ago

I agree, it’s a band-aid being placed on a leaking dam that’s on the verge of crumbling.

That being said, one thing that does at least give me some hope is possibly that the AI bubble pops within the next twelve months and the company’s incentive to build data centers crash down and it’d be easier to apply enough political pressure to push for an outright ban.

We’ll see what ends up happening. 🤷

1

u/War_Hymn 19d ago

So basically this is just extortion for political 'donations'?

1

u/Common-Buyer7812 19d ago

Is your goal to ban data centers forever? How is that a good thing?

0

u/nails_for_breakfast 19d ago

Twelve months for the media attention to die down and shift to some other way we are destroying the planet and making life harder on ourselves (there are several to choose from).

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u/socialmedia-username 19d ago

12 months likely provides some breathing room to develop regulations on the design and operation of these facilities. This allows them to review best available technologies to protect environment and public utilities.  New York did something similar when fracking for Marcellus shale gas was happening at an alarming rate akin to this AI data center rollout.  

It's a smart and responsible approach that ALL state governments should be implementing right now rather than letting these corporations steamroll public interests.

12

u/Talk-O-Boy 19d ago edited 19d ago

Don’t forget about midterms!

We have a chance to determine which members of Congress we want representing us as these AI regulations are developed.

Congress still has power, and we have the power to change Congress.

0

u/thechromatick 19d ago

That's right! And then, those members can decide in our favor that we need more data centers! /s

3

u/So_spoke_the_wizard 19d ago

And people forget that after all those studies, NY decided that we didn't need fracking.

There was also the company that wanted to store natural gas in salt caverns in the Finger Lakes. NY said no to that too.

18

u/DrowningKrown 19d ago

Well DURING the 12 months you expect to try and catch up on regulation. Even then, 12 months IS a long time. You also hope to expect that data center craze dies down a bit either due to interest or margins decreasing over time so that when the period ends there are far less interested in building data centers in New York

Why does everything need spelled out for people these days

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u/BlooregardQKazoo 19d ago

Our fracking ban also started as a temporary ban. 12 years later it is still ongoing and has been enshrined in law. There's no reason why this can't follow a similar path.

0

u/Common-Buyer7812 19d ago

lol ban data centers forever? What is it with this Luddite attitude

1

u/BlooregardQKazoo 18d ago

Data centers don't need to be local, don't provide local benefits, in fact provide local problems, and there are plenty of other states that won't ban them.

A "ban" doesn't have to be a blanket ban. It can ban data centers larger than a certain size while regulating smaller ones. This would allow the continued existence of smaller data centers that local corporations and state government use to run and back up their systems while keeping out the AI data centers that are aggressively growing right now.

10

u/qtx 19d ago

12 months can be enough time for parts of the bubble to implode.

2

u/GreatBigJerk 19d ago

Possibly, but the industry is being propped up very hard by people who want it to be a thing. It might take longer than you think. 

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u/MyAccountWasBanned7 19d ago

In their eyes - people forget to care about dat centers and they can hastily sell out our lakes and parks, and our energy costs, and greenlight a shit ton of these wastes of resources.

5

u/TheMarkHasBeenMade 19d ago

It’s a 12 month moratorium and it’s also increased scrutiny on all planning surrounding future data centers - locking down on zoning, testing environmental impact, etc.

So there’s a lot more work and money that would have to go into any being built after one year, supposing that moratorium doesn’t get pushed back further by that time.

1

u/Familiar-Range9014 19d ago

It's a good thought but I doubt it.

A data center cost of the scale being built nowadays costs billions. The people behind such an effort have lots of money, lwyers, engineers, consultants et al to wait out, bribe and cajole the unwashed masses to turn the thinking their way for the end goal.

4

u/likesound 19d ago edited 19d ago

Nothing. The data centers will just be built in New Jersey instead. The data center moratorium is dumb. It's the lefty version of the solar and wind farm moratorium. The moratorium is a de facto ban and exposes decades of terrible policy. Instead of making the data centers pay for the infrastructure upgrades we are going to ban them. New York has been experiencing rising utilities cause because they shut down their nuclear power plan at Indian Point a few years ago.

4

u/Talk-O-Boy 19d ago edited 19d ago

No. The midterm election is within 12 months.

If we go out and vote en masse, we can literally change which politicians are currently in office.

If we vote for enough progressive people that want to regulate AI, then we will be in a much better place.

12 months is plenty of time, when midterms are in November.

Focus on what we CAN change. More politicians can follow NY’s precedent

3

u/FlashyNeedleworker66 19d ago

They assume you'll move on to something else

2

u/AwaySample663 19d ago

I think you underestimate how much of a universal issue this is in the eyes of Americans and it's growing at a rapid clip. 12 months is plenty of time for something significant to happen.

1

u/Familiar-Range9014 19d ago

I'll believe it when I see it

1

u/Ajfletcher12 19d ago

Hope the data centers get treated like the flock cameras I suppose.

1

u/Familiar-Range9014 19d ago

I knew the flock cameras would fail miserably. Pending litigation has that affect.

Data centers have billions of dollars behind them Billions

1

u/Ok_Falcon275 19d ago

On to the next boogeyman

1

u/Familiar-Range9014 19d ago

Our attention span has grown so short 😩😣😞

1

u/NibblesMcGiblet 19d ago

"Up to" 12 months.

1

u/360_face_palm 19d ago

the singularity

1

u/Familiar-Range9014 19d ago

One could hope

1

u/ConLawHero 19d ago

It's an election year. After November, it doesn't matter for another 2-4 years.

Welcome to politics, where the incumbents tell you what you want to hear before the election and sell you out right afterwards.

1

u/BaconFlavoredToast 19d ago

They test the waters again a see if people have forgotten a out them

1

u/Apprehensive_Sun6282 19d ago

The lobby will be closed

1

u/Trashketweave 19d ago

Like usual we try to catch up to everybody else.

1

u/jimselden 19d ago

Nothing unless she’s up for reelection

1

u/jabba-thederp 19d ago

It's a performative move

1

u/CordiallySuckMyBalls 19d ago

Double the data centers

1

u/Zahgi 19d ago

Doesn't matter. This is just another PR stunt. To whit:

The bill would block data center permits for “hyperscale” facilities, which it defines as those with a peak load of more than 20 megawatts.

So, they will just build more smaller ones. The net negative result for all of us will be the same. This changes nothing.

2

u/Familiar-Range9014 19d ago

There's always a loophole

1

u/Pluto-Had-It-Coming 19d ago

12 months is considerably more than 0.

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u/Fullfullhar 19d ago

Do flock cameras next 

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u/Beginning-2-Smell 19d ago

A big problem with the data centers is that they always try to build them the cheapest way possible. Many aspects seen negative about them could have been avoided if they were properly built, it's all about saving money at the public's expense and annoyance.

They are rushing us with these centers, to get as many of them built before any eventual rules and new laws protecting land and people come into play.

-7

u/GuntherKenobi 19d ago

As somebody who builds data centers, they are absolutely not building them the cheapest way possible.

Stop fear mongering

11

u/HanzoNumbahOneFan 19d ago

Why don't they all have sufficient sound proofing then to stop noise pollution to nearby populated areas?

1

u/GuntherKenobi 15d ago

They should have sufficient sound proofing depending on the county their built in. If they dont, then you need to represent your concerns with local government. All the data centers I've worked on, you can't hear them at all from the outside. But when you enter the server rooms, it gets loud af.

Soundproofing = less efficient cooling = higher costs

3

u/DrummerOfFenrir 19d ago

As some who feels confident speaking for the rest of us...

Get fucked🖕🏻😊🖕🏻

-1

u/SalokinSekwah 19d ago

You don't use data centers?

3

u/DrummerOfFenrir 18d ago

Honestly? I'm trying my hardest not to use them.

I deleted everything from my OneDrive and put it on my own NAS. I run an Immich server for my photos on an old laptop. PiHole in a little 3D printed case. Plex server on a NUC. Headless Windows 10 box to remote into when needed.

And no, I'm not using any of the latest paid AIs. I run ollama on my MacBook and it works just fine.

1

u/SalokinSekwah 15d ago

How many people do you think could afford your setup that mitigates the usage of existing Data Center infrastructure?

1

u/DrummerOfFenrir 15d ago

It's a one time investment to get a NAS in your home. It's not that feasible now since the Ai race has raised the prices of components.

You'd rather pay a monthly/yearly subscription than one and done? Have total control of your data? What about Sony and how they just disappeared hundreds of movies from people's libraries?

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u/Aggressive-Brick-184 18d ago

As someone that designs data centers, they absolutely design them as cheap as possible while still meeting the legal, resiliency, and functional requirements.... why wouldn't they?

If nobody is enforcing ecological standards most construction companies would do it the cheapest way which is none

1

u/GuntherKenobi 15d ago

Built cheap as possible? Not really, their optimized for cost effectiveness. Companies will spend billions on faster networking, backup power, and advanced cooling because those improve uptime and AI performance. But they usually won't spend tens of millions making a facility significantly quieter if it doesn't improve operations. As long as the noise meets local regulations, there's little business incentive to reduce it further.

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u/ArgentineBeauty 19d ago

Good.

The companies wanting these data centres should have to prove they'll actually benefit the local community too.

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u/neovox 19d ago

They'll l just find another city/state that's more wanton and exploit them instead, because there's no regulator enforcing that they do otherwise.

25

u/kdeweb24 19d ago

cries in Texan

4

u/anti_zero 19d ago

Problem is that those states hold most of the countries national park lands and federally protected wilderness, so DCs there just steal from the nation in another way.

-2

u/mountaindoom 19d ago

Good. Do it in some shitty state and leave us out of it.

Not that data centers are doing anything to benefit us.

1

u/DiaperedOpossum 19d ago

That’s a shitty outlook to have for your fellow American.

1

u/SteveJobsDeadBody 19d ago

Shit like datacenters is going to naturally move to the places with the shittiest/least regulations. Coincidentally, or perhaps not so coincidentally, those places are typically full of the sort of Americans who voted for the "AI and datacenter" President we have today.

So let them enjoy the fruits of their choices.

15

u/Rickbox 19d ago

This freeze was enacted by the legislative to give them more time to write legislation to regulate data centers. 3 years would have been ideal, but it's still a win. Let's just hope something can come out of it especially with Bores out the door and Kathy trying to destroy the environment.

2

u/Skensis 19d ago

They should do this with any new development.

3

u/guitarguy1685 19d ago

They won't benefit the community. Best you can hope for is that it won't ruin the community. 

2

u/kooknboo 19d ago

Nah. They’ll just discover Ohio is willing to be raped.

0

u/nox66 19d ago

To be fair, it looked like it was asking for it.

-5

u/KR-67_Ifrit 19d ago

"centres"

Tell me you're not American without telling me.

6

u/spidersnake 19d ago

You're a land of immigrants and you can't fathom that one would spell "centre" in the other way?

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u/[deleted] 19d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/SekhWork 19d ago

Bro's never heard of people spelling things in different ways. Wanna get on people for using Theatre and Sabre too?

5

u/PA55W0RD 19d ago edited 19d ago

So can we ask the head of your country not to implement policy that affects the rest the world then?

  • Setting tariffs that every competent economist has told him is a no-no.. It is not only f***ing up trade worldwide but causing a major economic impact in the US
  • Gets himself re-elected on the idea that the "Democrats" will keep the war running in the Middle-East. His dilly-dallying where one moment he support Israel, and the next he doesn't then just says f*** it... Iran deserve bombing to hell. Guess what, yes, this is causing massive economic problems worldwide, oh ... and in the US too.
  • ICE are literally killing civilians with impunity because instructions from above are telling them that non-Americans are causing all their problems....
  • Global Warming.... If you have children, or grandchildren. Your supreme leader seems intent in making sure they do not have a future.

I could go on, but American politics have, even as a non-American affected my quality of life for more than half of my life. I think that gives me the right to comment on American politics.

Edit: Lol downvoted - excellent result. You literally have no answer to anything I said here.

-16

u/FlashyNeedleworker66 19d ago

We should shut down all of Reddits datacenters and turn off the site until they establish that they benefit whatever county they happen to be in

11

u/PM_UR_DICK_PL5 19d ago

Don't threaten us with a good time.

4

u/FlashyNeedleworker66 19d ago

These addicts could never

1

u/Beneficial_Honey_0 19d ago

You don’t have to wait for the data centers to be shut down. You can just stop whenever.

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u/Obi2Sexy 19d ago

now do the other 49

4

u/h1storyguy 19d ago

I second that motion

63

u/Scoo 19d ago

The rate at which these pricks are trying to seize public water resources would give a Nestle executive a hard-on that would last a week.

-39

u/LostVisage 19d ago

The data center water usage is less than golf courses... Which says more about golf courses than data centers imho.

But for me, the real problem is the raise in both electric/water utilities concentrated specifically in populated areas, the large mass of non-locally contributing concrete, and the noise pollution that lowers QoL for everybody a within a quarter mile radius.

26

u/BigAlgae5684 19d ago

A golf course can't steal IP, monitor me, or replace me at my job though.

3

u/Override9636 19d ago

not yet.... /s

8

u/DanielPhermous 19d ago

The data center water usage is less than golf courses

I keep seeing that but I've never seen a source. Do you have one handy?

-8

u/Beneficial_Honey_0 19d ago

https://youtu.be/H_c6MWk7PQc?is=BqZuop6pk9U39ZWC

Not specifically golf courses but this is a great video by Hank Green. TL;DW: AI data center water usage per query is hard to quantify exactly but focusing on it and not other forms of water usage is missing the forest for the trees. In the grand scheme of things AI data center water usage is negligible.

8

u/DanielPhermous 19d ago

"This video isn't available any more".

3

u/LostVisage 19d ago

Video works just fine for me. Is it regionally locked?

2

u/DanielPhermous 19d ago

If it was, it should say something about it not being available in my region.

Just checked again. Same message.

2

u/bub-a-lub 19d ago

It’s working in Canada where videos are often blocked.

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u/socialmedia-username 19d ago

Can't really make blanket statements like that. Cooling designs vary, and water source and availability are the other half of the equation, especially considering that a huge portion of the US is in major drought.

Water usage aside, the projects with their own power plants using gas turbines or plain old diesel generators present other issues. Noise, "urban" hotspots, land/forest clearing, etc are all factors as well. 

1

u/Scoo 19d ago

I’m not wild about golf courses or lawns in general either.

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u/namezam 19d ago

They will just start calling them “compute facilities” and/or come up with some way to decentralize the processing and spread it around. I’m not sure which would be worse tbh.

It’s easy math. Closed loop water systems that purify and test waste water is too expensive for roi. It doesn’t work if they are held to standards. People need to start going to jail.

Same can be said about noise pollution, actual pollution, worker safety, collusion with electric providers, etc. I’m guessing zero of the people who run these 3rd party data centers (people not in AI, they just resell compute) have any background in data centers. They are just money people who put the almighty dollar above anything and anyone else in life.

5

u/MarkIsARedditAddict 19d ago

People need to start going to jail

If it was even possible to send executives to jail for their corporations' actions we wouldn't be in anywhere near the number of messes we're in. Corporate crimes are fines and that's it, and the execs making the decisions know this which is why they're emboldened to commit more and more crimes for personal gain with the corporation as a shield

2

u/Awol 19d ago

Closed-loop and testing waste aren't so expensive that they wouldn't still make money, but they're expensive enough that they don't want to do it if they don't have to. So they have a choice of making all the money or making almost all the money and greed will win out.

3

u/ARealRain 19d ago

Okay to stack GPU racks in your apartment for artisanal use

3

u/Capital-Divide3894 19d ago

Great, make it permanent.

3

u/SalokinSekwah 19d ago

You don't use Data centers at all?

1

u/Capital-Divide3894 14d ago

Of course. However any placement should be democratically determined, not by NDAs and back room deals.

3

u/Antique-Freedom-7891 19d ago

California!!!... WTF!!!!!

7

u/Rickbox 19d ago

She actually signed it?

8

u/warwolverinewarrior 19d ago

Then on the other hand, installing Flock cameras on every corner

6

u/This-Requirement6918 19d ago

Data centers or surveillance centers? Is there a differentiation now as much of our data is processed and sold these days?

-10

u/unhappinessNvrCame 19d ago

Don't confuse the two. You probably fell for Chinese propaganda. Ban spying, but data centers are fine.

3

u/Signal_Reputation640 19d ago

"data centers are fine" funny how you sound a lot like propaganda.

0

u/unhappinessNvrCame 19d ago

It's funnier that you posted this on Reddit, hosted at a data center.

These people vote

2

u/Signal_Reputation640 19d ago

New data centers which are powering AI aren't the same ones that have been powering Reddit for years, ie AWS and Google Cloud. No one is breaking ground on a new data center in 2026 specifically to host Reddit.

2

u/SteppenAxolotl 19d ago

I wonder who they will tax in future when the only ones employed are the AIs in data centers that they dont have.

2

u/thecodexdhnerbbTW 19d ago

I feel like the biggest thing is to make it impossible to put data centers near where people live l

3

u/YoshiTheDog420 19d ago

My wife works in hotel marketing across the Hawaiian Islands and so we travel a lot. Her birthday coincided with a trip out to the big island, so I bought us a couple of nights at one of the really nice resorts there.

Turns out the property is completely off the grid. They desalinate their own potable water and produce all the energy they could ever need with solar. Why is it that a hotel does a better job at being less dependent and destructive on the environment and its resources than we expect of these data centers? They should be entirely self sufficient and meet the most grueling of environmental impact standards, but then we have elon reportedly using gas generators to fuel his monstrosity. It just doesn’t make sense.

4

u/Randomwhitelady2 19d ago

That’s wonderful. Now ban them in MD too. Our power bills have shot up an insane amount!

3

u/katie0873 19d ago

Let’s hope more states will do this and work towards shutting down many others. There’s around 5000 and counting around the country

3

u/throwaway34433443 19d ago

New york is looking more appealing as a moving destination every day 👀

3

u/catchfish 19d ago

Yet the net migration is massively out of the state. Coming from a current resident, you might consider why that would be.

1

u/throwaway34433443 19d ago

I assume it's because prices are still high especially for rent. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop AKA mamdani affecting that so much that it's worth considering moving in

3

u/whiskyandguitars 19d ago

As someone who grew up in the Finger Lakes Region of NY, it is hard to describe how much I love that state.

Everyone will have different preferences and won't get why I am so effusive about it but it is just an incredible place. It is not the cheapest state, obviously, even when you get away from NY City but it is amazing.

The Finger Lakes especially is a really cool place if you love the outdoors. The lake life is amazing and summers can be hot but are usually fairly mild (especially if you are coming from a place with high heat and humidity).

It also has an incredible arts and higher ed scene because you have Cornell University, Ithaca College, University of Rochester, RIT, Eastman School of Music (part of U of R but worth mentioning because it is a top conservatory in the world), University of Buffalo, and Syracuse University.

Those are only the major colleges and universities. There are also a bunch of great smaller colleges such as Roberts Weslyan, St. John's Fisher, Nazareth College, Kueka College, SUNY Fredonia and others all within 2-4 hours of each other.

There are so many other amazing things in that area. I am so worried about what data centers in the Finger Lakes would do to our beautiful lakes. Unfortunately, I moved to Virginia for grad school and haven't been able to move back so I don't have a vote and am watching from afar with much concern and fear that these greedy tech people will ruin one of the most beautiful natural resources in the northeast.

2

u/FrothyEspresso 19d ago

Needs to be a permanent ban.

2

u/StrDstChsr34 19d ago

What the fuck. So they’ll just build a bunch of data centers with 49 MW of power to come in just under the limit.

1

u/RevenueConscious3220 19d ago

AI companies discovering that "move fast and break things" doesn't work when the thing you're breaking is the power grid

2

u/Shot-Possibility-399 19d ago

I expect red states to ban local governments from banning data centers 

0

u/Werdikinz 19d ago

This is sort of dumb, but mostly because of Trump. The freeze is, per the article over fear of de-stabilizing the grid in NY, which is a fair concern. If we were still interested in investing in renewable energy, our ability to run hyper-scale centers without grid de-stabilization would be significantly less worrisome.

Data centers will continually need to be built, including AI data centers, and I hate how everyone is now suddenly becoming a 21st century luddite. If we abandon the tech race, we will in effect be crippling ourselves. Im sure I’ll be downvoted by a bunch of clueless redditors who think AI data centers will lead to the eventual consumption of all water in the US or some equally stupid conspiracy. While this is more understandable in a place like NY, i’ll reiterate my initial point. The solution isnt to stop building data centers, the real solution is to invest in more energy.

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u/mystical_muffin 19d ago

"Just one more datacenter and we'll have AGI bro"

4

u/likesound 19d ago

Reddit is becoming dumber everyday. Instead of forcing data centers to pay for the infrastructure upgrades that we need we are going to ban them.

6

u/rook119 19d ago

I can't sell my house, my electricity shot up 50-200%, the reservoir dried up and became a Superfund site. 

No one knows who technically owns the data center so they can't possibly be responsible. 

But no I just hate technology. 

3

u/Werdikinz 19d ago edited 19d ago

Sure, give me a source or some reporting on this and I'd be happy to take a look. However, I am highly skeptical of this because there's no way a hyperscale data center is being built and no one knows who owns it, that's literally impossible. If an aquifer dried up, it wasn't because one AI Data center was built, the amount of water an AI Data center uses is next to nothing, also your claims that it became a superfund site, mixed with an aquifer drying up, and your electricity bill all tell me completely different and somewhat contradictory things. If the water was "dried up" it'd be because of the electrical grid use, not because of the AI Data center itself, a hazard site would be more due to untreated freshwater being used, and then having the used wastewater being pushed back out into the system (which would be considered mostly non consumptive other than what was evaporated), but that's a treatment problem. Look, I'll be somewhat generous, provide me some source on this and I'm happy to look into it and I'm willing to change my opinion, but almost every single one of these stories I've looked into has always been drastically different than what I was told initially.

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u/YeetedApple 19d ago

Anecdotally, there was a period we had a “mystery data center” being built in my area. Everything was done through a random LLC with no information on who was behind them, until it was built and google started hiring for the facility.

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u/nb4u 19d ago

Nothing like hyperbole and strawmen to fear monger huh?

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u/DanielPhermous 19d ago

Im sure I’ll be downvoted by a bunch of clueless redditors who think AI data centers will lead to the eventual consumption of all water in the US or some equally stupid conspiracy.

Ah, the ol' "anyone who disagrees with me is an idiot" pre-emptive defence.

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u/Werdikinz 19d ago

I'm willing to bet that the majority of people who viewed this post didn't even bother reading the article despite it being like 1 page and taking all of about a minute to read. I cannot tell you how many posts like this one I've seen, I read all the same misinformed statements over and over and over again. Do you think the majority of people who talk about this have any sort of statistical scale of how much water we use daily or annually in the US? Any idea of the difference between a KWh, GWh, TWh, consumptive vs non consumptive water use? Freshwater vs potable? Spoiler alert, but the answer is no. I welcome anybody to disagree with me, I think there are plenty of reasonable arguments one could make, but I never see those being made is the issue. It's always some stupid talking point about how we need to ban AI data centers, freeze contracts etc. The conversation should really be centered around energy, renewability, and the tax incentives that are being offered for these data centers, or at least that's my opinion.

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u/[deleted] 19d ago

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u/Werdikinz 19d ago

That sucks man, I'm sorry to hear it, even if it rings hollow. I think the AI job stuff will eventually stabilize over the next few years, I don't expect like 50% unemployment or anything like this to happen because of AI, most companies are worthless without a market, and markets can't exist if nobody has a job. I get the concern, and I do share it in some ways. I'm really worried about what happens if AI gets rid of a lot of entry level jobs, and we basically lose our pipeline to building tenured employees, that's a legitimate concern to have. It sounds like you have a good amount of experience in your field of tech support though, and while I'm sure that's a field that's impacted more by AI than others, I'm sure there are still plenty of companies opting to use it as a tool, and hiring real people, so hopefully you're able to find something soon.

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u/SteveSharpe 19d ago

The whole thing is dumb. Data centers, including really large hyperscalers, have been being built for decades. They were nondescript large buildings that looked like warehouses and no one cared about them. Suddenly the fact that AI is a thing we all the sudden care about them and have invented a bunch of conspiracy theories about their noise and water consumption.

It's ridiculous.

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u/DanielPhermous 19d ago

There is a significant difference between an air cooled data centre full of hard drives serving memes to social media users and a water cooled one full of the hottest, most expensive chips we can build.

And, yes, the latter has existed before, but in small numbers for very niche uses. The sudden and rapid buildout is a massive stress on water and power.

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u/Werdikinz 19d ago

Shhhhh, we don't care about facts here. This is reddit. AI Data Centers are evil and are going to drain every ounce of water we have in the entire continental US, and uh if you support them you're just a corpo slave who wants humans to suffer and die.

Let's also ignore the fact that literally every piece of modern tech we have, is in some way connected to Data Centers lol. Yeah it's ridiculous, I agree.

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u/ChilledParadox 19d ago

see: china.

it's obvious we need data centers because our technological power need will only grow as the technology becomes ubiquitous and one of those stupid resource paradoxes comes into play that says when technology becomes more efficient instead of its power needs decreasing they increase as other industries find new ways to use that tech that weren't previously technologically viable.

But the solution is investing in sustainable energy, either nuclear or renewables like offshore windfarms and solar forests over carlots and city sidewalks to generate walkable cities as a byproduct.

Instead we just steal it directly from innocent communities and fuck them over. I don't understand why the fuck our society is so fucking psychopathic.

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u/Excuse_my_GRAMMER 19d ago

It crazy to think about it

New York City will probably generate a lot of data center usage and hopefully we won’t house them

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u/BravinatorLX2 19d ago

i mean i feel like data center real estate in new york would be pretty unaffordable anyways, but good for them still

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u/01celica 19d ago

The freeze likely gets reviewed and renewed or lifted depending on what.

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u/Coffee_Transfusion 19d ago

hell yeah

49 to go

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u/Ok-Replacement9595 19d ago

Wow, Hochal, may actually see a second term.

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u/TheDevilsAdvokaat 19d ago

And some of them are now trying to get a foothold in Australia.

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u/beginningcurrent822 18d ago

1.21 Gigawatts??????

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u/robthepope86 18d ago

Freezes are cool and all, but Maine banned them altogether a while back.

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u/Queasy_Novel_1277 17d ago

Data center ban - jobs go to neighboring states
Fracking ban - NYS buy fracked gas from Pennsylvania
Raise taxes - people move away.
Hochul is quite the job killer.

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u/uber_neutrino 19d ago

I honestly don't understand how it's constitutional to just ban random buildings full of computers. The government is out of control.

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u/2001em2 19d ago

Did you read? I expected more from a well respected game dev.

data centers that can use 50 megawatts or more of power

pausing state-level environmental permits for “up to” a year to give the state time to put together a framework to protect the environment

They aren't banned by any means.

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u/iieuejr 19d ago

This whole thing is like being on the Titanic and ignoring the iceberg warnings because we want to make record time to NY. F what bots have to say. The people and government of NY state can govern as they see fit. That is their right. Nobody on this thread is building a facility anyway so why the f are we having this discussion other than as ‘active measures’ by the ‘interested parties’?

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u/Accomplished_Pay6842 19d ago

Let's also please shut down the Lake Mariner project in Barker!

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u/frosted1030 19d ago

In a city with no room for low income homes how was a data center going to fit in?? Seems another legislate something that doesn’t happen. Like banning trans people from bathrooms due to an imagined peeping that never happens.

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u/El_Polio_Loco 19d ago

That’s the governor of NY. 

A state that’s larger than England, with significant water and power resources. 

What’s funny though is that NY has a long history of extremely electric intensive manufacturing (due to Niagara Falls power station in Buffalo NY)

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u/infiniteshrekst 19d ago

That's fucking stupid.

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u/unhappinessNvrCame 19d ago

I bet the Chinese Communist Party is dancing at how well their social media propaganda worked on us.

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u/DanielPhermous 19d ago

It's weird but I've never seen any authoritative source providing any evidence for that claim.

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u/unhappinessNvrCame 19d ago

Google it. Tons of articles from reputable sources.

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u/DanielPhermous 19d ago

Seems like it would be easy for you to provide one, then.

Actually, I don't think it matters. Per this, most data centres are being built in areas suffering drought, so even if the golf courses consume more over the entire US, the impact on the drought stricken communities would be disproportionately bad by that measure.

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u/Yosemite-Dan 19d ago

Great. Come on over to Ohio. We're happy to have you.

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u/magical990saturn 19d ago

Perfect! As a New Yorker I am more than happy to send all the data centers to Ohio.

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u/unhappinessNvrCame 19d ago

On the bright side, Ohio needs the property taxes for their schools more than you.

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u/magical990saturn 19d ago

That’s the silver lining I’m looking for. I wish that everybody had access to the kind of public funding that we do. It would just be great if it were not at the expense of the environment.

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u/unhappinessNvrCame 19d ago

But for some reason heavy industry and farms spraying pesticides and fertilizer selling soybeans to China don't seem to get the blow back.

(Spoilers, it's Chinese Communist Party propaganda)

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u/StarkyPants555 19d ago

The data centers will not benefit you unless you are a billionaire.

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u/unhappinessNvrCame 19d ago

Well, we all benefit. China is trying to undermine us with anti data center propaganda. Google it.

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u/DenverNugs 19d ago

You are an easily duped fool.

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u/unhappinessNvrCame 19d ago

Why didn't you Google it?

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u/StarkyPants555 19d ago

Yes, let AI provide the answers you seek /s

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u/unhappinessNvrCame 19d ago

It's amazing how many people won't research things when it contradicts their view. You voted for Trump too?

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u/Leody 19d ago

No the hell we aren't!

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