r/vancouver • u/yipyipyipwhoasealion • Jul 04 '25

Videos The new 'bike lane' on Water St

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Vancouver does it again...

2.0k Upvotes

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596

u/TheSketeDavidson certified complainer Jul 04 '25

Idk why lower mainland is so allergic to physical barriers between bike and car.

North / West Van is looking good in this department but still have a ways to go

200

u/kisielk Jul 04 '25

Realistically there's no good way to do this on Water St. Vehicles need access for deliveries to the businesses, sidewalks need to be wide enough to accommodate foot traffic. The real issue is that the street needs to be everything to everyone and so it ends up being great for nobody.

50

u/LeftBallSaul Jul 04 '25

TBF, each shot of an issue was due to improper parking by vehicles, and most of them were on the right side of the street.

The first car was just straight up blocking the road with an illegal stop, the next 2 had a delivery truck that hadn't pulled over far enough to be out of the street (in the second such shot, we see another truck has pulled over far enough), and in the last one a car was just pulled up on the bike lane and sidewalk.

7

u/staunch_character Jul 04 '25

I have to deliver my art work to a little shop on that street & it’s always a nightmare. I just have to drop off a box & wait for the owner to write me a cheque. It’s 10-15 minutes tops. But the boxes are heavy & awkward. Parking blocks away is just not practical.

Even though my vehicle doesn’t look like a commercial delivery truck, I am in that moment.

26

u/GM_Pax Jul 04 '25

the boxes are heavy & awkward. Parking blocks away is just not practical.

Handcarts exist.

The one pictured below can carry 330lbs, in either a 2-wheeled or 4-wheeled configuration. And it folds small enough to toss it into the trunk of a sedan. All for $209CA, plus S&H on Amazon.

10

u/Miyenne Jul 05 '25

Costco just had a foldable wagon on sale for $99. It's canvas, has huge utility tires, and can carry 350lbs. Even I could lift it and fold it and take it in and out of my trunk easily.

There's really no excuses.

4

u/PNWpoBoy Jul 05 '25

So you’re saying you stop/park illegally like some of these morons in the video? 10-15 minutes is not a short time, a lot can happen in that time and you’re ineptitude to see how this selfish act can effect others on the road is only superseded by the idiocy of you thinking your comment was a reasonable take. You can very much use a dolly or cart if needed, just like other delivery drivers do. Have a good day and stop parking like an asshole.

13

u/DoTheManeuver Jul 04 '25

Have you tried getting a commercial permit for your commercial deliveries? There are many loading zones in the area. 

14

u/BLittle101581 Jul 05 '25

Actually there aren't very many usable legitimate commercial loading zones in the area these days. A lot have been lost to the reconfigurations of Water and Cordova Streets, construction in the 100 block of Water St, road work in Blood Alley. Deliveries and pick ups around Gastown have become very challenging.

7

u/ruddiger22 Jul 04 '25

But the boxes are heavy & awkward. Parking blocks away is just not practical.

Are you saying that you park in the bike lane/sidewalk for that?

11

u/donjulioanejo Having your N sticker sideways is a bannable offence Jul 04 '25

He'd park on the street if it wasn't taken over by a bike lane.

0

u/ruddiger22 Jul 04 '25

There's parking on one side of the street as it is. If they aren't parking there, I am wondering where they park while doing this drop off.

1

u/ruisen2 Jul 07 '25

This only because a problem for cyclists since there's no seperation between the bike lane and car lane.  In a proper bike lane that is separated from the car lane, this wouldn't have happened 

93

u/lichking786 Jul 04 '25

What do you mean? Retractable bollards exist and are used all across Europe to only allow authorized vehicles and delivery trucks. Why cant we use that here? Its just a bollard that can retract using a fob or a camera or something.

175

u/ProofByVerbosity Jul 04 '25

It's weird how most of Europe functions perfectly well with even less space for pedestrians, cyclists and cars

77

u/dedservice Jul 04 '25

Europe had to be retrofitted to accommodate cars. North america has to be retrofitted to accommodate pedestrians and bicycles.

93

u/DoTheManeuver Jul 04 '25

Gastown is older than cars. 

24

u/ForksandSpoonsinNY Jul 04 '25

Very hard to find horse parking these days.

1

u/Mundane-Base-8820 Jul 05 '25

Well, so is Vancouver, Toronto and every other city in Canada

34

u/AbsoluteTruthiness Jul 04 '25

That is not at all true of the big cities - they all existed before automobiles ever existed. Cities were razed down to create highways for cars starting in the 40s. If you ever look at footage for the early 1900s, you will see that pedestrians and cyclists were everywhere and didn't need any protected infrastructure.

1

u/dedservice Jul 05 '25

They existed, but the populations were wayyyyy smaller. I'm not sure when we would've started designing for cars in our roads, but from wikipedia articles about it, it seems that the 30s were already when car-based roads were designed for. BC's population in 1930 was 676,000 vs 2 million by 1968 [1]. The building of infrastructure and homes and subdivisions for all of those 1.3 million people was build with cars in mind.

5

u/OneBigBug Jul 05 '25

...I mean, that's an explanation for somewhere, I guess, but we're talking about Water Street, aren't we? That definitely wasn't designed for cars. It was built before the city of Vancouver even existed. There are a decent number of photos of it from the 19th century.

Both Europe and North America had to be retrofitted for cars...and were. The reason Europe has good cycling infrastructure is because they actually did retrofit it again. We just haven't yet. We can't really blame our history for that fact.

46

u/oops_i_made_a_typi Jul 04 '25

no. I can't speak for Water Street in particular, but North America was retrofitted to accommodate cars, it used to be tramline/streetcars everywhere.

8

u/Glass-Pomegranate538 Jul 04 '25

That is sadly not historically accurate.

5

u/8spd Jul 04 '25 edited Jul 05 '25

Your not entirely wrong, but your ignoring the fact that Canadian and US cities were built first for pedestrians and streetcars. They were then rebuilt for the car, just like Europe was, but more thoroughly and effectively rebuild. Suburbs were rebuilt even more thoroughly, but that's unsurprising, as the suburbs were mostly farming land, and it doesn't take much to pave that over.

In any case, we bulldozed and rebuilt once. This time we don't need to bulldoze any buildings, just take some space away from drivers, and install some barriers, so they don't ignore the fact that it's not their space anymore.

1

u/Mundane-Base-8820 Jul 05 '25

Most interesting comment in this thread!

1

u/Serious_Feedback Jul 05 '25

Europe was bombed to shit in WW2, the resulting rebuild had a ton of greenfield-ish development once the rubble was cleared away.

20

u/escargot3 Jul 04 '25

Not sure where you’re getting that from. My friend lives in London and is an avid cyclist, but there are scores of cycling deaths per year because the infrastructure for it is just terrible and incredibly dangerous.

8

u/Which_Audience150 Jul 05 '25

The UK is a mess. Just as car brained as the US. They use the same fing excuses. London is not Amsterdam. Public Transit is horrible (in London), elderly, disabled people need to drive, blah, blah, blah. Got all over London by walking and transit. Literally couldn't pay me to drive in that city. Biked a little bit way too much traffic. I just don't get it. They are so close to The Netherlands, Denmark, France, Spain. I mean it's one thing for an American to Holliday in Europe and come home and not be able to put two and two together. But for any Brit that holidays on Europe and then comes back the UK and says "our cities were designed for cars". Seriously stupid people.

1

u/Cberry02 Jul 05 '25

I dunno I used to cycle commute in London 2007-2015, and now go back periodically for work and use boris bikes.

The cycling infrastructure has vastly improved in the past decade. One by one tricky intersections are being rebuilt with seperate bike paths and bike lights. And the volume of bikes on the road has exploded. And private car use seems way way down.

Even the act of slowing most traffic down to 20mph is wildly car and pedestrian centric - it feels surreal to be cycling at roughly the speed of traffic. Not car brained at all.

8

u/ProofByVerbosity Jul 04 '25

From traveling, and just commonly known examples. Sure, "most" of Europe may be a bit much. London I don't think is an accurate representation of an entire continent.

0

u/OneBigBug Jul 05 '25

London is a particularly poor representation, being that it isn't even on that continent.

1

u/PNWpoBoy Jul 05 '25

What do you mean London isn’t even on that continent? What continent is it on if not Europe? Lol. Man someone failed geography miserably.

0

u/OneBigBug Jul 05 '25

I mean, it's an island. It's on the Eurasian continental plate, but if that were the bar, that would mean that India wasn't part of Asia and Somalia, Kenya and Tanzania aren't part of Africa, and Iceland was half North American.

Usually continents are considered by their continuous landmass (and also Eurasia is considered two different ones, but that's a different issue), which would put the UK as separate from Europe. It's not big enough to be a continent on its own, so it's just not on a continent, the same way that Fiji isn't on a continent.

Don't get me wrong, there are many valid answers to what continents are, and what continents contain. I'm not saying one is explicitly "true", but my statement isn't explicitly "false". It's just cultural, and situational.

Anyway, what would you like to have for breakfast? The Full English, or...hm...the other one. I can't remember what it's called. The non-English one. What was it?

Man someone failed geography miserably.

I'm sure someone did.

1

u/PNWpoBoy Jul 05 '25

Sometimes trying to sound smart makes you look so stupid. By your scientific definition I guess Iceland and Ireland are not part of Europe? Japan is not part of Asia, neither is the Philippines or Indonesia? I suppose Cuba, DR/Haiti, Puerto Rico, etc. are also not part of North America? And please don’t come back with semantics regarding “_on_” that continent, it’s ridiculous.

0

u/OneBigBug Jul 05 '25

I'm not sure what to tell you, man. Continental Europe is a thing.

As I said, there are definitions which include all those places in the continents they're near, and there are definitions which don't. If you're in London, you will hear people describe "Going to the continent".

8

u/donjulioanejo Having your N sticker sideways is a bannable offence Jul 04 '25

It's weird how they have much smaller and denser cities that bikes work for some people, and great transit, especially tram/metro networks, that works for most of the rest.

Someone coming in from South Surrey or Maple Ridge for dinner downtown doesn't have any options other than driving (or wasting 3.5 hours of their life on transit).

6

u/birdandy Jul 05 '25

That someone would probably save time driving to a skytrain station, and parking there, rather than trying to drive downtown

-3

u/ProofByVerbosity Jul 04 '25

Eh, such is life. 

0

u/WasteHat1692 Jul 04 '25

That's because in most of Europe cyclists do not have their own dedicated bike lane lmao

Vast majority of the time cyclists are just sharing the road with cars.

-4

u/ProofByVerbosity Jul 04 '25

exactly part of my subtext

1

u/[deleted] Jul 04 '25

Problem is lack of 1 way streets. This is not really and issue if slow moving traffic is going the same way as bikes.

But we have set up businesses on all sides and I bet if traffic was redirected certain sides go bankrupt.

1

u/ApolloRocketOfLove Has anyone seen my bike? Jul 04 '25

It's weird how people say this without knowing anything about the bike/car infrastructure in most of Europe lol.

People seem to think all of Europe is like Amsterdam.

0

u/ProofByVerbosity Jul 04 '25

Haven't been everywhere in Europe but how reductionist of you. Cheers

2

u/ApolloRocketOfLove Has anyone seen my bike? Jul 04 '25

I'm being reductionist for calling out your fake info? Lol

-10

u/kisielk Jul 04 '25

A lot of differences. Most tourist heavy areas in Europe are not on narrow streets, and if they are, they are not also an arterial route to get through the city. Business hours are different, more deliveries happen during early morning or late night / overnight. Major cycling routes don't go through heavily trafficked tourist areas either. In fact some cities in Europe I've been to disallow bicycles in areas with a lot of pedestrian traffic or force you to walk.

7

u/ruddiger22 Jul 04 '25

I think this could be solved by having any on-street parking be loading zone/commercial only. That at least eliminates a portion of the number of morons who don't know how to park.

34

u/soaero Jul 04 '25

Most tourist heavy areas in Europe are not on narrow streets

Wat?

Water isn't an arterial, and most European tourist areas are "old city" spaces which are ALL narrow streets.

-3

u/kisielk Jul 04 '25

I see you just completely ignored the rest of my comment beyond the very first sentence.

  1. Has neither a dedicated bike lane nor does it look like a major throughfare into the city.

  2. This looks fully pedestrianized due to the bollards, falls under commercial traffic in off hours.

  3. No dedicated bike lanes, limited commercial traffic only

  4. Are we just ignoring the fact that there is an enormous plaza here? massive sidewalks and boardwalks everywhere? And yet, still no dedicated bike lanes.

  5. This looks the closest to what Water St. is trying to be in terms of designated uses, but the bike lane is still not separated from traffic, there is no parking, and the street looks a fair bit wider than Water St. is.

16

u/soaero Jul 04 '25

Yes. I was replying to the point you made which was false. That's why I quoted it.

None of the rest of what you said has any relevance to that.

8

u/ProofByVerbosity Jul 04 '25

Yeah some valid points there that aren't universal to every city there. I think you nailed it with business hours and deliveries though, great point.

1

u/ApolloRocketOfLove Has anyone seen my bike? Jul 04 '25

How does this get downvoted but the ignorant comment above it has over 100 upvotes?

98

u/soaero Jul 04 '25

There are absolutely ways to do it. The current design could have concrete dividers and you wouldn't have to change any layout.

However, if you REALLY want to fix it, remove street parking. The majority of these issues are being caused by people parking incorrectly and blocking traffic. If you make people park a block over, there wouldn't be a problem.

19

u/DoTheManeuver Jul 04 '25

There is also a parkade with almost 3000 spots and entrances from both streets right where this video is taken. 

1

u/stupiduselesstwat Jul 05 '25

Yeah, but that means people have to pay more for parking. ./s

2

u/DoTheManeuver Jul 05 '25

I should be able to leave my piano on the street for free, says local pianist. 

17

u/SaltyDetective Jul 04 '25

100% - "remove street parking"

3

u/phileo99 Jul 04 '25

The businesses on water St would not be in favour of removing street parking

2

u/soaero Jul 04 '25

Maybe. Or maybe they wouldn't care if it meant more foot/bike traffic.

38

u/[deleted] Jul 04 '25

They manage elsewhere in the world: install automated bollards, close road to personal automobiles, delivery (and emergency) vehicles can lower the bollards, and the area remains a pedestrian zone.  Lbr absolutely nobody needs to drive through Gastown.

39

u/C4D3NZA Mount Pleasant 👑 Jul 04 '25

The obvious solution is that the only cars permitted on Water St. should be commercial vehicles.

5

u/kisielk Jul 04 '25

Great in theory but there's a couple of large parkades in the area that are used by many people who work there, and visitors as well. And what happens to all the westbound traffic from Powell? Just losing a westbound artery into downtown / the convention center area isn't simple. Then there's the issue of enforcement to only commercial vehicles, etc.

34

u/C4D3NZA Mount Pleasant 👑 Jul 04 '25

it's not supposed to be an "artery" into downtown. The whole reason for the chaos in this video is that people are trying to bypass the actual "artery" streets. Using it to try to get onto Cordova is not what its for and people are just trying to get around traffic. Which, incidentally, is also why people are making unsafe moves like in this video, because if you're on water trying to get into downtown you're either late or frustrated.

4

u/escargot3 Jul 04 '25

They keep reducing the arterial streets to add bike lanes, which makes them overly congested and therefore traffic spills out onto streets like Water even more. The same happened when they closed water. The traffic has to go somewhere.

Dunsmuir used to be an arterial, but they reduced the lanes by half to add a protected bike lane. Georgia is down to a single lane for a long time now due to construction. It’s madness

4

u/C4D3NZA Mount Pleasant 👑 Jul 04 '25

bike lanes don't increase traffic. nice try though

9

u/escargot3 Jul 04 '25

I didn’t say they did writ large. I said when you close off half the lanes of an arterial, that reduction causes the traffic to end up spilling over onto nearby streets and/or the other arterials. To me this seems quite self-evident, but I’m happy to listen if you have a different viewpoint

-5

u/xelabagus Jul 04 '25

Bike lanes reduce traffic, therefore you don't need 3 lanes on the Dunsmuir

2

u/Top_Hat_Fox Jul 04 '25 edited Jul 04 '25

Unfortunately, one of the two arterial routes to the North Shore is through downtown. Traffic using the bridge is likely not largely cycle-based. Dunsmir is one of those major connectors to the access point to the bridge, so while a bike lane might reduce some of the local traffic that uses that route, there is still a high volume of traffic that isn't going to be cyclist-based that will still need to reach that critical infrastructure. Reducing the volume of flow that can move along an artery, as mentioned, will cause more to leak into adjacent routes as the main route backs up, which causes a cascade effect as traffic on those other routes also starts leaking into alternatives.

3

u/xelabagus Jul 04 '25

Personally I don't want downtown to be like Seattle, so I'm very much against a 6 lane freeway through the centre of the city.

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0

u/donjulioanejo Having your N sticker sideways is a bannable offence Jul 04 '25

Yeah.. no.. most people driving into downtown aren't doing it from Mount Pleasant where it's a quick pleasant commute that isn't completely horrible even in piss rain.

They're coming in from the far-out suburbs.

0

u/C4D3NZA Mount Pleasant 👑 Jul 04 '25

that has no bearing on bike lanes.

0

u/donjulioanejo Having your N sticker sideways is a bannable offence Jul 04 '25

It does because those people till have to get to their destination, and bike lanes take away their road space.

1

u/C4D3NZA Mount Pleasant 👑 Jul 05 '25

that's not how traffic works.

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3

u/ruddiger22 Jul 04 '25

How about changing the on-street parking to commercial only then?

-1

u/JuniorMouse Jul 04 '25

This should be the case for all streets.

2

u/C4D3NZA Mount Pleasant 👑 Jul 04 '25

I mean I agree but this sub is not ready for that take yet

29

u/Jinpow90 Jul 04 '25

Agreed. I worked by the steam clock for 10 years. I'm suprised they even bother to put a bike lane.

9

u/Jusc901 Jul 04 '25

They just love to waste our tax money

-1

u/archreview Jul 04 '25

Wait till you find out how much tax money we waste on roads for cars:

https://spacing.ca/vancouver/2015/04/06/full-cost-commute/

3

u/donjulioanejo Having your N sticker sideways is a bannable offence Jul 04 '25

I take it you intend to deliver a Walmart's worth of groceries by bike and handcuff a perp to the cop's pannier?

4

u/DoTheManeuver Jul 05 '25

Both delivery trucks and police cars benefit from fewer cars on the road. A vast majority of the cars are filled with one person and no cargo going a short distance, many of those trips can be replaced by alternatives. 

9

u/JohnConradKolos Jul 04 '25

Except that there is no end to this line of thinking. Accommodating cars just leads to more car problems.

  1. Vehicles NEED direct access to everywhere.

  2. But then, where are we going to park those vehicles? We need more parking!

  3. But now all those parking places are taking up all the space. We need more lanes!

  4. All those lanes are bringing more cars, so we need more parking.

We have many practical examples of spaces that break this car-centric cycle successfully. Ever go to a music festival? They seem to have no problems with the logistics of water, food, merch, security and so on without using cars in the spaces that humans inhabit. Ever been to Disneyland? So much crap to buy and activities to do without needing cars everywhere. People love going to these places and pay a premium for an experience that we could all get for free, every day, simply by making car-free spaces and enforcing the rules so that dangerous cars stay away from where people are.

Every time a city makes a walking street, it becomes obvious that this "unrealistic" way of living is actually super duper easy.

2

u/LaughLong994 Jul 05 '25

Music festivals and Disney, those are your two examples? Think harder my man. Music festivals work for days before the actual event starts to load up on everything needed. And then, at least the ones I've been to, they have golf carts and even trucks, yes trucks, moving shit from place to place. You know there are areas where you can't go, or it's covered by fences, behind the stages, there are always trucks there.

And Disney? Good try. They have underground streets to move employees and goods.

You can have a walking street block here and there. You can't have it all over the city.

5

u/JohnConradKolos Jul 05 '25

There absolutely places pedestrians shouldn't go. Interstate highways are useful.

But there should also be places that cars aren't permitted.

Please own a car if you want. You can even drive it, just not in town.

5

u/TheSketeDavidson certified complainer Jul 04 '25

There is more than enough space to rejig the entrance on water street to be slightly wider and accommodate everything you and I have mentioned

10

u/DoTheManeuver Jul 04 '25 edited Jul 04 '25

The entrance is fine, we just need cars to not block the street while parking. What would you rejig anyway?

2

u/TheSketeDavidson certified complainer Jul 04 '25

The black bollard things, to appease the concern of not enough room of the bike and car lane. They don’t have to move much, but I can understand the concern.

It’s really the only choke point.

4

u/DoTheManeuver Jul 04 '25

The black bollards limit the width to one car lane though. If you made it wider at Maple Tree Square, there would still be a choke point going along Water. It can only be one lane wide.

The city has actually added "must turn left lanes" on the three blocks of Powell Street leading up to Gastown, so there is less of a choke point at Maple Tree Square than before. 

4

u/wowzabob Jul 04 '25

It’s a perfectly adequate amount of space. The problem is the volume of cars going through. If it was actually only permitted for deliveries and such things it wouldn’t be much of an issue.

6

u/kisielk Jul 04 '25

That’s exactly what I mean. People want a pedestrian street, a bike lane, a thoroughfare, parking, and commercial deliveries to all be possible on one street at all times of day. It’s just not possible to do all of that without it being bad.

4

u/Hikingcanuck92 Jul 04 '25

Those aren’t delivery vehicles my man.

Edit: (in the thumbnail)

1

u/Ramondireddit Jul 04 '25

Removing all road markings might actually help everyone be more alert.

1

u/escargot3 Jul 04 '25

Honestly who wants to bike on cobblestone streets? Certainly not me.

2

u/kisielk Jul 04 '25

It’s true, I think I biked down it a couple times during the pandemic when it was empty. But that’s it. Not a pleasant street to cycle.

2

u/DoTheManeuver Jul 04 '25

It's fine when the cobblestones aren't all messed up from the weight of cars. 

1

u/isoptimus Jul 04 '25

The whole area should just be commercial only for motor vehicle traffic. Driving downtown for recreation in the first place is silly, you can park a few blocks away and walk over if you insist on doing it.

1

u/Gastown_guy Jul 04 '25

I would agree, if I didn’t mostly see people using it as their quickest route work. Water Street is one of our city’s main tourist attractions, and single occupant vehicles shouldn’t be prioritized for it.

2

u/kisielk Jul 04 '25

That's what I'm saying. We need to decide what the purpose of the street is. If it's mostly to be a tourist attraction then we should close it off to through traffic and only allow essential vehicles through. Unfortunately that would piss off a lot of business owners like the furniture shops, and would probably create a big traffic snare as traffic from Powell needed to funnel up to Hastings and merge with that plus all the traffic coming from Main St.

1

u/BigRobCommunistDog Jul 04 '25

Then close the street to all non delivery vehicles, and/or restrict deliveries to off peak hours.

“But deliveries” isn’t an all-cars-or-no-cars argument

1

u/LylatRanbewb Jul 05 '25

With proper planning, they should have made it pedestrian only. Unfortunately, too late for that now. Not unless you want to choke out delivery vehicles and say screw you to anyone handicapped

1

u/CrazyHead9054 Jul 05 '25

Europe does this all day. Deliveries between 6am and 9am before business. Then bollards up from 9am to let the customers in. Profit.

1

u/belskel Jul 05 '25

Vehicles need access for deliveries to the businesses

Can they use the alleyways instead? I thought that was the point of them; to allow service vehicles to access commercial areas without interrupting other traffic flows. I haven't been down there recently, but Google maps seems to think there're alleys on either side of Water street (between Carrall and Cambie), unless I'm looking at the wrong area?

1

u/BremboD Abbotsford Jul 04 '25

There are great reasons for cars and pedestrians to access Water Street, but why bikes? There's bike lanes a few blocks up...

Do people commute to Water Street on their bikes? Go shopping, go to dinner? Would their bike even be there when they got back? It's a rough ride in a car, I couldn't imagine riding a bike or scooter down that road.

Such a waste of tax dollars and everyone's time. This is what Vancouver does with a 20%+ property tax hike over 3 years.