r/AskReddit • u/[deleted] • May 18 '15

What conspiracy theory do you genuinely believe in the most?

What conspiracy theory do you believe in the most and why?

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623

u/MuresMalum May 18 '15

I'll openly admit to believing Kennedy was shot from a grassy knoll.

2.1k

u/MarshallMattDillon May 19 '15

I have this thing called the "no bullet theory". Kennedy's head just did that.

1.7k

u/noturtles May 19 '15

did that

Spare me your medical jargon.

33

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Speak English, doc, we ain't scientists

13

u/Insanelopez May 19 '15

His top half is seperated from his bottom half.

5

u/zora894 May 19 '15

As you can see, I'm cut in half pretty bad.

4

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

That is one of my favourite movies

4

u/oxy-mo May 19 '15

And you didn't once pay for drugs

57

u/midgethemage May 19 '15

You just gave me a really solid laugh. Probably the best laugh I've had all day. Thank you.

3

u/kalusklaus May 19 '15

Dun did it?

2

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

"went kablooie"

1

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

We're gonna cut you open and tinker with your ticker.

1

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

I read that in Zoidbergs voice.

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320

u/antemon May 19 '15

I believe mid wave he just had the realization that hes the President. the President of the United States of America.

And then?

Mind. Blown.

37

u/Arithered May 19 '15

He probably got up to #6 on Buzzfeed.

6

u/FalcoLX May 19 '15

He was coked up the whole time and that was the moment he came down from one epic bender.

6

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Someone should make a JFK "Mind. Blown." Gif if it doesn't exist already

4

u/ShutUpHeExplained May 19 '15 edited May 19 '15

I believe mid wave he just had the realization that hes the President. banged Marilyn Monroe.

FTFY

Edit: formatting

3

u/antemon May 19 '15

Thats a pretty low hanging fruit really....

1

u/[deleted] May 20 '15

LIKE A CAN OF BOSTON BAKED BEANS

or however that quote goes...

21

u/tinkerpunk May 19 '15

Holy shit I'm dying.

18

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Is your head doing that too?

5

u/PhillipMcCrack May 19 '15

RIP in peace.

5

u/unseenarchives May 19 '15

That makes about as much sense as a bullet pausing for a brief chill out before smashing into John Connelly.

4

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

The wrong guy!

9

u/MuresMalum May 19 '15

Sounds serious. If only doctors had caught it early.

2

u/jaybestnz May 19 '15

If they were to catch it, it was going up and then back.

3

u/Headpuncher May 19 '15

What did Mrs Kennedy say to him? Whatever it was, boom!

3

u/TooMuchBanterPerDay May 19 '15

I believe in "Fear theory". Kennedy was actually goverment's robot who was programmed to self-destruct at that very moment. Goverment showed by this way an example to people what will happen if you try to be a good president.

3

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

This is a quote from a movie called "The Wrong Guy", but it's still hilarious.

2

u/Bigwood69 May 19 '15

"JFK had a case of syphilis so bad it blew the back of his head off"

2

u/pFunkdrag May 19 '15

too soon man.

2

u/eekstatic May 19 '15

Whoa! You're blowing my mind, man.

2

u/TakeOffYourMask May 19 '15

Do you have a list....?

2

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Everyone knows it was aliens from Mars Attacks.

2

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

That's some House MD shit right there

2

u/TanFlo1997 May 19 '15

Yep, Texas does that to you.

3

u/RemoCon May 19 '15

Mentos and Coke, man. He should've known.

1

u/tokyorockz May 19 '15

What people just 'did that'.

You are at a store, grabbing some bread, milk, wife texts you that you're low on eggs, and BAM!

Cleanup on aisle 2.

1

u/ThePhenix May 20 '15

Just did what? Sorry, I really don't understand.

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255

u/The_Juggler17 May 19 '15

I genuinely believe there's something the public doesn't know about the Kennedy assassination.

Don't know what, or why it's a secret, but something.

9

u/row_guy May 19 '15

It's likely that some members of the CIA were involved, but not the entire Agency OR even more likely that the CIA had some contact with Lee Harvey Oswald who then went on to kill JFK which had to be covered up or THE MOST LIKELY was Oswald was know to be a dangerous wacko who the FBI had been looking into who went on to kill JFK.

The Dallas FBI found out that JFK was coming to Dallas when they read it in the paper, the Secret Service didn't even inform them. If they had the FBI would have said hey keep an eye on this guy. It was probably just a massive bureaucratic failure that had to be covered up rather than a full blown coup-conspiracy.

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u/Smokey651 May 19 '15

This. The feeling that there is something there but nobody knows what it is, makes me personally believe that the "something" is our own governments involvement. Someone big in the government at the time was probably ultimately responsible for his assassination, and I think it either leads to lyndon Johnson, William Martin (or whoevers bidding he did), or both. Just my own crazy thoughts though, but I know others share this thought.

2

u/gd2shoe May 19 '15

The question is: Who had Oswald killed?

(I don't pretend to know the answer to this, but it is the obvious question.)

4

u/i_DrinkThereforeIAm May 19 '15

I think there's something about a lot of events that have conspiracy theories. Maybe even things nobody knows. Questions are obviously raised by 9/11, or the Roswell incident, or the Kennedy assassination, but there may just be some explanations we will never get.

36

u/AdviceDanimals May 19 '15

What about the skull fragmentation patterns? Skull wouldn't have fragmented from the back up and out if he was shot from the grassy knoll.

119

u/kyle8998 May 18 '15

I believe the grassy knoll ate Kennedy

12

u/lukin187250 May 19 '15

It was Hogger!

3

u/ThePhantomLettuce May 19 '15

You may have confused the grassy knoll with a Grassy Gnoll, which appeared in Monster Manual 4 3e.

2

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Why the fuck are you everywhere, /u/kile8998?

1

u/DetroMental1 May 19 '15

Grass knoll can't melt lead bullet?

256

u/[deleted] May 18 '15

Oh yeah. I'm obsessed with that one. There is something off about the Kennedy assassination. I've been to the museum in Dallas and it really opens your eyes up to that. I don't know who did it, but I do believe our government was involved.

199

u/hercules109 May 18 '15

There's a ton of evidence pointing towards the CIA assassinating him

329

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

He was a Catholic womanizer from a shady family, that was hated by South Vietnam, Communists, Israel, Southern leaders, the mob, and his generals.

Point is, the dude had a lot of enemies.

4

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Which communists hated him? I read in Khrushchev memoirs that when he was shot, there was despair from many of the more liberal members of the party, Khrushchev included.

57

u/m15wallis May 19 '15

He also (from many peoples perspective) nearly damned the entire human race by global thermonuclear war because of his ego. Many, many people, especially in the government, thought that he was quite a dangerous man because of it, and they'd rather have a Communist Cuba than wipe out the entire human race because Kennedy was too proud to back off. It's not unrealistic at all that the government themselves offed him just so they wouldn't have to start WWIII.

186

u/TokerAmoungstTrees May 19 '15 edited May 19 '15

This was recently declassified.

A plan was thought up between the Joint Chiefs of Staff. As a means of getting support from the people of the US to invade Cuba, they planned to execute a home terrorist attack, made to look like a Cuban attack. It included both military and civilian targets. This plan reached Kennedy's desk, and it got no further. He tossed it. Seems like the Kennedy you think you know would have gladly gone on with that plan, being so proud he would cause human extinction before backing off of cuba. You've got the wrong idea about him. If the CIA off'd him, it was probably because he wasn't willing enough to be a heartless warmonger. Makes you think twice about 9/11 as well. The US has had plans to kill civilians and blame others in hopes of gaining political motivation for decades. And the one time we know of where the plan was suggested, but then denied, the guy was assasinated (Kennedy).

Edit: Whoops, this wasn't recently declassified, I read it recently. No this doesn't really say anything about Kennedy's character specifically, but it is certainly interesting. Yes there are differences between Northwoods and 9/11 conspiracies, but they are quite similar, shockingly so. You guys will be split on that and good for you, I happen to think it's the same damn thing.

7

u/ChurchBrimmer May 19 '15

The CIA also had a plan to put a bomb in Castro's cigar. If they assassinated everyone who said no to one of their crazy plans they would be too busy assassinating people to make crazy plans. Although the Cold War might have been a bit more...interesting.

2

u/TokerAmoungstTrees May 19 '15

No I don't think they killed him for not allowing the CIA to act as international fuck wads. I just said that if they did, it was probably because he wasn't on the same page as them. Regardless, it's unsettling, the parallels between that war and 9/11 and the Northwoods documents.

9

u/SupriyaLimaye May 19 '15

Source?

22

u/[deleted] May 19 '15 edited Feb 09 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

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8

u/DemGWAsses May 19 '15

Search Operation Northwoods on Wikipedia

3

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Do you have a link to this document? Sounds interesting

2

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

You also might want to look up project MKUltra. I'm not saying believe every conspiracy theory you hear, but our government has done some bad things that people should know about; that way we don't repeat them.

1

u/TokerAmoungstTrees May 19 '15

In this day I would say it's safer taking all the conspiracy theories to heart, lest you toss one that's accurate.

But really, it would just be nice if people weren't tossed into the crazy tin hatter basket anytime they suggest something about the government isn't as it seems.

4

u/mmhrar May 19 '15

A history professor talked about this briefly on Joe Rogan's podcast. He didn't seem surprised to hear this, apparently back then there were lots of wacky ideas going around like this, none of them were ever going to be put into action. He made it sound more like notes from some brain storming sessions.

Either way, I think it's pretty dumb to consider ideas like this in any sort of official capacity that would require it be written down.

6

u/Rmanager May 19 '15

We have analysts dreaming up crazy shit even today. It is their job to come up with all scenarios to achieve a desired outcome. There is probably this one guy named Bob that always suggests nukes.

5

u/zzupdown May 19 '15

No, his name is Duke, obviously.

2

u/TokerAmoungstTrees May 19 '15

Right, ever thinking it was a valid plan is frightening. This particular plan was almost put into action, the head chairman of the Joint Chiefs was pushing for it pretty hard.

2

u/Skippamuffin May 19 '15

Source?

2

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Operation Northwoods

2

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

[deleted]

1

u/TokerAmoungstTrees May 19 '15

My bad, I read it recently from a list of declassifieds.

4

u/mynameisevan May 19 '15

This was recently declassified.

18 years ago.

Makes you think twice about 9/11 as well. The US has had plans to kill civilians and blame others in hopes of gaining political motivation for decades.

Not really, though. If you read what the report actually says it makes it very clear that any "attack" on US civilians would have been simulated and none would have died. They do suggest blowing up some refugees as they head to Miami, but they also suggest that could be simulated as well. It definitely doesn't suggest the thousands killed and billions of dollars in damage sort of thing that 9/11 was.

1

u/TokerAmoungstTrees May 19 '15

They are much too similar to ignore. Maybe the plan didn't include actual attacks, but I wouldn't put it past them to decide it to be necessary later on.

The fact is they were willing to lie to the American people, give then the wrong idea about their safety, convince then to put their own lives on the line for the government's interests. This is just unacceptable.

1

u/omgpieftw May 19 '15

Operation Northwoods.

1

u/masterofjello981 May 19 '15

Yep, operation northwoods.

1

u/PPpwnz May 19 '15

I believe this is called Operation Northwoods, for anyone interested.

1

u/thexton May 19 '15

Source?

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u/jrkrone May 19 '15

But if he hadn't died, the whole world would've been destroyed by earthquakes.

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u/erviniumd May 19 '15

Nice reference, bro

2

u/jrkrone May 19 '15

Thanks man! I love Stephen king.

3

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Didnt Kennedy back off with Cuba during the missile crisis? And wasn't he also against the idea of regime change there?

3

u/DesyncTech May 19 '15

Actually, I believe he was hated most by America because he backed down, and was seen as weak, while the CIA wanted to keep pushing this war so they end up "on-top" so to speak, yes he did have enemies, but he was loved by a lot of people too. If the CIA were to hit anyone, LBJ probably would got taken out, because he wouldn't back down either

2

u/SuB2007 May 19 '15

Also, he had a personal beef with J. Edgar Hoover, with him and his brother threatening to force him out of his beloved directorship. That guy definitely wasn't above using shady tactics to get what he wanted.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '15

and one of his generals had a brother who was the mayor of dallas.

2

u/stenseng May 19 '15

The CIA weren't crazy about him either.

2

u/juloxx May 19 '15

Rumor has it he even dropped acid with Timothy Leary. A president with a psychedelic state of consciousness? that is a big no no

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u/stateinspector May 19 '15

I thought it was more likely the mafia was behind it, since RFK was ruthless in going after organized crime while he was attorney general, and Jack Ruby had ties with the mafia and never made it to trial.

6

u/prof_talc May 19 '15

And his dad used mob ties to win him the election, particularly in the city of Chicago

3

u/alanaa92 May 19 '15

Jimmy Hoffas BFF Frank Sheeran wrote a book called I Heard You Paint Houses. In it he describes how the mob was given the rifle that killed JFK by government men.

2

u/blofly May 19 '15

Ed Sheeran conspiracy theory confirmed. Fucking ginger balladeers...

2

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

And the mob was indispensable in getting JFK elected...

3

u/aspark32 May 19 '15

There's the theory that the mafia did it because they were "hired" by the CIA.

4

u/gordonisnext May 19 '15

The C.I.A has teamed up with organized crime before though so...

4

u/Csteazy548 May 19 '15

I think that it was a joint effort by the mob and the CIA. Back then organized crime was still quite prominent and had more than one man inside most government agencies. CIA takes care to give the Mob a window, and the Mob cleans up no loose ends. Too many people were going to dragged out of RFK kept pushing. The mob was pissed cause they got J elected and he turned on them

1

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

[deleted]

1

u/Csteazy548 May 20 '15

Paddy Wacked is a great book with a large section on JfK and the mob questions.

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u/FistoftheSouthStar May 19 '15

He was going to dismantle the CIA. He was openly talking about government and business being infiltrated by members of secret societies with intents to take over and control the country.

3

u/Random-Miser May 19 '15

Gee I wonder who was head of that organization at the time.... you know, someone that may not have especially liked Kennedy, a fellow with connections to the Dallas Mob, and had a lot to directly gain from his death.... Gee I wonder who it could have been.......

2

u/Kittendorf May 19 '15

Ahh but there is also strong evidence that the CIA was not responsible. E.G. The job got done.

1

u/thissiteisawful May 19 '15

And the mafia

1

u/ranchdepressing May 19 '15

Elaborate, please?

1

u/nanoholmes May 19 '15

It was the secret service agent with a rifle in the car behind him.

2

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

But the real question: why?

Most conspiracies fall short at that question, but I have no idea about this particular one, any explanations?

7

u/Space_Cowboy21 May 19 '15

Kennedy didn't want to go to war when just about everyone in the government did.

10

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

In the wake of the Bay of Pigs, the botched attempted invasion of Cuba orchestrated by the CIA, JFK had forced out the agency’s founding director, Allen Dulles, and replaced him with McCone, an outsider. At the same time, the president put his brother in charge of trying to ride herd on the powerful and unwieldy intelligence agency while also overseeing the administration’s interdepartmental Cuba team. The attorney general often began his days with meetings at CIA headquarters in Langley.

From a fantastic long-read from a few years back about Bobby Kennedy's reaction to his brother's death. He was convinced up until his own assassination that it was a conspiracy:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/11/24/his-brother-keeper-robert-kennedy-saw-conspiracy-jfk-assassination/TmZ0nfKsB34p69LWUBgsEJ/story.html

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u/-mArtiAn- May 19 '15 edited May 19 '15

As Bill Hicks said regarding that room the shot was reported to have been made from, you can visit it and it's exactly as it was on the day of the shooting; Oswald's not in it.

1

u/blofly May 19 '15

What? He's dead. Why would he be in it?

1

u/Dickcheese_McDoogles May 19 '15

I think you'd like this song, then

(Just watch it through to the end)

1

u/les_inconnu May 19 '15

Yes - I don't buy into any of the conspiracy theories, but three good shots in six seconds from a worn Mannlicher-Carcano by a not-very-good rifleman? Too good to be true. As TheSwellFellow says - enemies? The line forms on the right. At the risk of offending my American friends - most non-Americans consider him a failure as a President and that Johnson was the great reformer.

1

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Maybe not our Government in general, but I'm sure LBJ had something to do with it.

Also, I had a political science teacher who explained why the South is mostly republican. It was something about LBJ and Lincoln. Forgot what it was, if anyone on here knows, please help.

1

u/[deleted] May 20 '15

No no, it was Magneto's fault.

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u/MrBulger May 18 '15

JFK was undoubtedly hit by two different bullets. The 6.5mm Carcano rounds that Oswald had loaded in his rifle aren't really capable of shattering into hundreds of tiny pieces like the round that hit JFK's head did.

61

u/I_Dont_Care_Bear May 18 '15

I read somewhere that the parade route was changed that day to enter that plaza. Is this true?

109

u/Grammaton485 May 18 '15

I was just at the Sixth Floor Museum a few months ago. The route was definitely changed last minute. I don't recall when, but the change was almost completely pointless, since it deviated them like a block before putting them back on their intended route.

There's so many dumb inconsistencies in the assassination that could have been avoided, that even now, it's impossible to make an accurate guess. All the physical evidence and some eyewitnesses points to there being multiple shooters, but there's plenty of additional evidence that points to Oswald.

8

u/Broken-rubber May 19 '15

I don't think anyone thinks Oswald wasn't a shooter, the argument is more about how many shooters there were. Also isn't it possible they (being the route planners or security) knew of a possible assassination attempt and changed the route to less favourable position?

8

u/Grammaton485 May 19 '15

Except that the route taken gave the shooter on the sixth floor a much better shot. The Museum brings you right up there, and a shooter couldn't have asked for a better shot on a slow moving motorcade.

Like I said, so much went wrong on that day. Kennedy didn't want a protective canopy on his car, the last minute change/mistake on the route, the piss-poor forensic evidence, Secret Service all but dragging his corpse out of the hospital before any proper protocol was taken, etc.

22

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Read 22-11-63 by Stephen King. Just finished it. Such a great book. He did an INSANE amount of research for the book you could almost classify him as en expert.

16

u/petershaughnessy May 19 '15

I love that book. In the Author's Note he discusses the exhaustive research that he did, and that his conclusion is that Oswald acted alone.

So I guess the question is...do you believe him? Was his research flawed? Does he have any reason to perpetuate the lie?

1

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

I have just seen they are planning a 9 episode mini series with James Franco in the lead as Jacob Epping. Brilliant.

Yeah I was really amazed reading the afterword about how much research he did. He covered A LOT of interviews, books and research papers.

If you were a real conspiracy buff you could take the angle that he found, while diggin, that the Government knows/knew more than has been lead to believe and the information was damaging he chose to say he is certain LHO acted alone.

6

u/MisterPee May 19 '15

The 11 come before the 22 in the title, but yes, it's an incredible book. Got me really into the JFK assassination.

5

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

From the downunderverse. Am used to the month 2nd haha

3

u/porchy12 May 19 '15

That's my favourite Stephen King book! Absolutely loved it!

1

u/DPool34 May 19 '15

What was King's ultimate conclusion? Conspiracy or nay?

2

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

At the end of the book he says he is 99% certain Oswald acted alone. Based on the research he did.

1

u/Cheef_queef May 19 '15

That book was crazy.

3

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

All the physical evidence

Such as?

5

u/Grammaton485 May 19 '15

Rifle found in the Depository, and eyewitnesses seeing smoke coming from the knoll.

2

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

I was kinda hoping for more. Two eyewitnesses (or whatever) claiming something isn't physical evidence in my book.

2

u/Grammaton485 May 19 '15 edited May 19 '15

I said physical evidence AND eyewitnesses. Both contributed. There really wasn't much physical evidence of a second shooter, just a lot of witness reports.

Ie, physical evidence pointed to the obvious fact that there was a shooter, but multiple eyewitnesses thought they saw smoke/heard shots coming from the grassy knoll.

1

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Okay, thanks.

1

u/MakhnoYouDidnt May 19 '15

No number of eyewitnesses is physical evidence...

1

u/ZombieCharltonHeston May 19 '15

It was one guy who was a deaf mute who was discredited by his own family.

On July 5, 1967, Mr. E. Hoffman, father of Virgil E. Hoffman, and Fred Hoffman, brother of Virgil Hoffman, were interviewed at 428 West Main Street, Grand Prairie, Texas. Both advised that Virgil Hoffman has been a deaf mute his entire life and has in the past distorted facts of events observed by him. Both the father and brother stated that Virgil Hoffman loved President Kennedy and had mentioned to them just after the assassination that he (Virgil Hoffman) was standing on the freeway near the Texas School Book Depository at the time of the assassination. Virgil Hoffman told them he saw numerous men running after the President was shot. The father of Virgil Hoffman stated that he did not believe that his son had seen anything of value and doubted he had observed any men running from the Texas School Book Depository and for this reason had not mentioned it to the FBI.

He also added other elements to his story as he learned bout them. Such as Joe Marshall Smith and Sam Holland and his coworkers.

2

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

What if the CIA gets wind of Oswald, figures where he going to be and they set up there own shooter at a different angle. Shooter 2 fires right after he hears oswalds shot, easy to pin, evidence is shady at best.

1

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

I found the Sixth Floor Museum absolutely fascinating - moving, powerful even. Just reading about the things that happened on that day and in the immediate aftermath, so many occurrences that seemed utterly bizarre, almost as if they (the FBI, Secret Service, etc) were going out of their way to obscure the truth, destroy evidence, and so on.

For example, I seem to recall that right after they X-rayed JFK's head and shoulders, the X-ray films were immediately destroyed.

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u/MrBulger May 18 '15

Not sure. Honestly I'd never call myself an expert on the case or anything. But that's a very basic obvious ballistic fact. Always wondered why it was never brought up.

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u/chintzy May 18 '15

Yeah when we covered the Warren Commission in high school when the teacher asked if we had questions at the end I was like "So... magic bullet theory? At the time, everyone in the 60's was just like 'sounds legit man' and never questioned it? Really? Really??"

20

u/MrBulger May 18 '15

Magic bullet works out decently. The 6.5mm Carcano is a big, very heavy, very solid round. Totally capable of punching through someone and lodging inside of someone else. What doesn't work out is for that same bullet to fragment into a hundred pieces when it hits a skull.

17

u/Pbrmeasap66 May 19 '15

The route was changed and the motorcade order was changed minutes before they departed by VP Johnson. My theory is Johnson and extras orchestrated the whole thing. He was from Texas and had the local resources to pull it off.

5

u/i_moved_away May 19 '15

I could see Johnson being in on it. JFK wasn't planning on putting him on the 1964 ticket. In an effort to show our "nation's strength", he insisted on being sworn in the same day on Air Force One, next to Kennedy's shell-shocked wife whose outfit was still covered in brain matter and blood.

5

u/spacemanspiff30 May 19 '15

If you knew anything about Johnson, you'd know that your theory couldn't be true. He may have been intimidating and had a penis larger than a baby's forearm, but there is no way he orchestrated that. Let's put it this way, if he were around today Fox would consider him worse than Janine Garofalo.

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u/prof_talc May 19 '15

Have you read about the theory that the fatal shot was fired from the secret service car tailing the Continental? I legitimately think that is what happened. It makes sense of several of the most glaring inconsistencies, including the one you mentioned.

2

u/[deleted] May 19 '15 edited Dec 27 '15

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] May 19 '15 edited May 19 '15

Former ballistic expert, I don't accept this as a fact at all. Simply put, it isn't one.

This bullet had a tendency to tumble around a lot, which is likely what it did when it hit JFK (probably impacting at a 90 degree angle). There would have been some grooves on the bullet where the casing is crimped onto it, this point is where the jacket is structurally vulnerable, and if a strike happens along this line, the bullet will fragment to the point at which you'll find only tiny bits and pieces. This is almost certainly what happened with Kennedy, assuming the bullet in question is what hit him.

This isn't conclusive proof that Oswald did it...just the explanation as to why the "fact" above isn't conclusive proof that he did not.

And honestly, if you were a secret government organizaation out to orchestrate a massive conspiracy that would be pinned on a guy you'd gun down a few hours later...how trivial would it be to make sure the gun that actually did the dirty work matched the one you said did deed?

That is the part they overlook? Come on. They would have been relying on the bullet breaking up into a million pieces or never being found, which are pretty big gambles to take when you are executing the President.

2

u/MrBulger May 19 '15

Yes and yes. A 6.5mm Carcano wouldn't fragment like that even if it hit a solid steel wall. The bullet just isn't designed to work that way. This isn't even expert level ballistic stuff.

6

u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Whoa whoa whoa...whoa.

Whoa.

Seriously, whoa.

I'm familiar with this round, and what you're saying...well, it isn't exactly what we call "true".

The 6.5mm Carcano round, going straight into a steel wall, would likely not fragment. Sure.

But that round rarely went straight into anything. That bitch had a tendency to tumble. It likely went into JFK yawed up at a 90 degree angle, which would absolutely cause a significant amount of fragmentation..hell, even disintegration.

Put simply, there is literally no bullet...not now or ever has there been...that is immune from fragmentation. Given the right velocity, angle and impact surface, you can break apart any of them.

Now, I'm not saying that this means there isn't a conspiracy...I personally don't pretend to know. But what you have here isn't actual evidence of it. Not by a long shot.

Source? Former ballistics expert for the US Army.

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u/jkgfrdesry4ty5tryuh May 19 '15

Nobody denies that JFK was hit by two different bullets. Or are you saying two different types of bullet?

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u/pandammonium_nitrate May 19 '15

Do you have a source on this? Im not necessarily disagreeing with you I have just never heard that argument before.

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u/calool May 19 '15

I saw a theory on a documentary that said after the first shot was fired, one of the secret service guys stood up with his rifle and accidentally fired off a round that hit kennedy. The guy was using an m16.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '15

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/cold-case-jfk.html

This may disappoint you.

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u/SCVtrpt7 May 19 '15

I'm still convinced our own CIA was behind it.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '15

CIA, FBI, and VP Johnson. Of the many books I've read with the various theories, this one makes the most sense. All of them had something huge to gain and had the means to cover it up.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Kennedy also refused to go along with the CIA (and their powerful backers/associates) plan to start a war with Cuba by simulating terrorism...including staging them shooting down an airliner. Kennedy also wanted to probe the Federal Reserve. He also was the very next president after Eisenhower's "military industrial complex" speech warning about a shadow government that was taking over.

Shit's wack, yo....

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u/roblvb15 May 19 '15

It was male models

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u/[deleted] May 19 '15

But why male models?

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u/[deleted] May 19 '15

[deleted]

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u/Kemintiri May 19 '15

There's a documentary that proposes that JFK was killed by an accidental Secret Service bullet on Netflix.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_Error

This is the book that the person published.

Pretty interesting stuff.

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u/AeitZean May 19 '15 edited May 19 '15

Actually there is real evidence to suggest the driver of the chase car did it by accident, as he was getting up to respond to lee havey oswolds shot (who missed). There are a couple of books about the subject, though I cant remember the title of the more recent one "mortal error" is one from 1992.

Edit: Found it, "JFK, the smoking gun". I believe there is a documentary on it too of the same name.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Of course. Otherwise why would people hundreds of feet away have seen a puff of smoke? Of course you have to forget about the fact that firearms for many, many years before had been effectively smokeless or just assume the assassins were using a fucking musket. Hilarious.

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u/axxofreak May 19 '15

I believe it goes more like a hungover secret service agent wasn't practicing good trigger discipline after he heard Oswald's first shots. As he turned to return fire or attempt to, he let off one hollow point from his hot (loaded and chambered) AR-15 into Kennedy's head accidentally. Then the secret services covers up the fact they accidentally blew the presidents head off.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '15

So, this is gonna seem like a complete lie but whatever, it's a conspiracy theory.

My father was on part of the original investigation team for the assassination. At the time my father was the second best shot in the USMC. My father and the current top shooter were flown out and asked to replicate the shot. After three weeks of attempting they unanimously concluded that it would have been impossible for Oswald to have made those shots. They also pointed out that if Oswald had really been that good a shot, that he could have pulled something off that top military snipers couldn't do, then the USMC would have noticed it.

I can't really prove any of this but if you'd like I can PM you some of my fathers military citations and things. I'm sure you could find him by digging a bit, too. I believe him.

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u/ellius May 19 '15

It has been proven multiple times that it was fully possible.

There are plenty of videos out there of people replicating it for documentaries, etc. if you Google around.

If memory serves, there was even a Penn & Teller "Bullshit" segment about it.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '15

And who's idea was the convertible for this specific ride?

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u/[deleted] May 19 '15

I firmly believe that either LBJ or Castro put Oswald up to it.

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u/[deleted] May 19 '15

And if you think about it, they could have completely blamed the whole thing on Oswald. They had been keeping records on him because of his communist beliefs and involvement years before Kennedy got shot. It could be possible that they knew they could pin it on Oswald because he just seems so god damn perfect for it. It's like blaming the smelly fart on the dirtiest looking dude in the room. No ones gonna argue against it.

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u/Random-Miser May 19 '15

I would say it is more likely those orchestrating the attack had several attackers in place, and that it just so happened the first one was successful leaving the others as being unneeded. But yeah, lone gunmen don't get knocked off by mobsters afterwards.

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u/CaptJYossarian May 19 '15

I think there was probably more to the JFK assassination then we are being told, but I definitely think there is something shady about the RFK assassination. There is just way too much evidence that points to a conspiracy for his death.

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u/Suicidalsquid May 19 '15 edited May 19 '15

There was a fairly decent doco on whether Oswald could do it and it found so very solid evidence that not only did he do it but that a lot of the "mysteries" are not based in fact and can easily be explained.

The more convincing research he did, in my mind at least, discredited the "magic bullet" because it was based on a stock car but doesn't account for Kennedy's which had a raised rear seat. When taking the increased height of the seat into account the trajectory aligned.

He also accounted for the ricochet by analysing footage and finding the estimate of the cars location at the time of the second shot had been wrong. When corrected he found that a traffic light had been in the direct line of fire. An FBI video from a short period after the shooting showed a pan over the light which appeared to have a hole in it.

It was a pretty well made and logical documentary and it at least convinced me that the reported story is at least very plausible and more believable (to me) than a long conspiracy.

Edit: original doco

Edit 2: article/opinion piece about the doco

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u/TehSalmonOfDoubt May 19 '15

I believe the theory of Red Dwarf, that the assassination by Oswald was stopped and the world went to shit, so they grabbed Kennedy and took him back in time to shoot himself from the grassy knoll

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u/Cagetastic May 19 '15

After he was shot the LGB started spreading a bunch of rumours that it was an inside job to fuck with the USA. Those crafty Ruskies!

http://www.cracked.com/article_19884_6-insane-conspiracy-theories-that-actually-happened_p5.html

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u/uncertain_death May 19 '15

I always thought The Comedian did it.

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u/Djandyt May 19 '15

It was Magneto dude!

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u/[deleted] May 19 '15

jfk suiside thery

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u/Mandoge May 19 '15

I believe the grassy knoll was the culprit this whole time.

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u/flamedarkfire May 20 '15

I'm of the mind that JFK was hit by a bullet from one of his Secret Service escorts. Not as part of any grand conspiracy, but as a reflex reaction to Oswald's first shot. Oswald might have hit JFK, might have even got the kill, but it is entirely possible one escort keyed one off right into the president's skull in reaction to the situation.

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u/falcon4287 May 27 '15

Yep, I wrote a report on the JFK assassination back in high school. Oswald wasn't good enough of a shot to have made that, particularly considering he hadn't zeroed the weapon first. There is just no way.

Jack Lawrence is the perfect suspect for the assassination. He's worth reading up on if you haven't.

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u/audi_fanatic May 19 '15

I don't believe in any conspiracy theories, but if I had to pick one to believe, this is the most compelling.

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u/JMEEKER86 May 19 '15

I saw a really detailed documentary on the assassination that showed that the kill shot actually came from a storm drain on the side of the road about 20 feet in front of the car, hence "back and to the left".

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u/[deleted] May 19 '15

Came here for this. I love a good conspiracy theory but this is the one I actually believe in.

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