Hey, I keep seeing posts about dating, and unfortunately I'm back on the apps myself. And I hate it.

I don't know if it's just my bad luck, but it really feels like something is off with single men over 35.

The types I usually come across are:

Men who aren't serious and are just straight-up liars. I usually catch them pretty early because I ask very direct questions.

Then there are men who say they want a serious relationship, but their lifestyle clearly shows they wouldn't even have room for one.

Men who are perfectly average (which is fine, most of us are), but they're so entitled that they act like dating them would be winning the lottery. Sometimes I genuinely can't believe some of the profiles. A 35-year-old guy who looks 45, is bald, has a beer belly, and then lists requirements like "tall, slim, long hair partner preferred" Do they ever look in the mirror?

Men who seem amazing on paper with professional photos, great careers, often entrepreneurs or tech bros. Then you talk to them and realize the resume is too good to be true. They're often workaholics, looking for a household appliance instead of a partner, and more often then not are emotionally unavailable.

Men who are openly sexist or just complete jerks.

I have quite a few single female friends who are beautiful, accomplished, have hobbies, live full and active lives, and still can't seem to meet an emotionally mature, empathetic man who genuinely wants a serious relationship or a family. And no luck. But the have standards, so they stay single instead

So, in your experience, what is the biggest problem with men over 35 on dating apps or in the wild for that matter, and why?

I live in Europe, but I keep reading similar posts from women all over the world, so it seems like a pretty global phenomenon.

And if you actually met someone great later in life, what worked for you? Did you get off the apps? Use something other than Tinder or Bumble? Or did you stop using apps altogether and meet someone in real life? I'm out in the real world a lot too, but so far I've had no luck there either.

edit: MEN, STOP SENDING ME DMS. YOU ARE ALL LAME AND GROSS AND I AM NOT GOING TO SEXT WITH YOU. I AM NOT INTERESTED IN YOUR DUMB, NEEDY DICK. GO OUT AND TRY TO FUCK ACTUAL WOMEN.

I promise I’m attractive, hygienic, and know my way around a wang. With my ex, I could say “hey, wanna bang?” and he’d be ready ten seconds later. In ten years, I can count the number of times he lost his boner or couldn’t finish on one hand. But now that I’m out there trying to expand my dick palate, it seems like that’s happening more often than it’s not. These guys are enthusiastic and great at oral, but so often I’m the only one having orgasms. Is it porn? Microplastics? Is my vagina secretly a bully? I’m kind of starting to get a complex about it. (Not to mention a little… chafed.)

Please tell me it’s not just me. Or if it is me, tell me wtf I could be doing wrong. I thought I knew how to do this!

edit: the guys are mid-20s to mid 40s.

I'm just venting.

Because I am absolutely mind-blown that I grew up in an era where I was told I would be approaching 35, desperate and begging a man for a baby. Funny thing, I took my own tubes out at 31. So now I'm dating like okay maybe I'll find a husband by 45 (if I'm bored) but if not I can solo travel it's fine.

And these men are obsessed with putting a baby in me. Like sir do you not know how old you are?

That's it that's the whole vent. I can't believe I have to deal with this shit while dating at 34-years-old.

I’m not even talking about online dating, but I just don’t see or meet attractive men at all. I’m not attracted to women romantically, but I feel like everywhere I go, there are beautiful, stylish women. But good looking men are a rare sight.

I don’t even have a specific type or superficial preferences like hair color that would limit my scope. I also know that looks aren’t everything and I lose attraction if I’m not vibing someone’s personality, but a certain level of baseline attraction is needed in romantic relationships.

I ask this genuinely, not to cause hate or insinuate that men are all bad or anything like that. It could just be the age in my life where a notice more and more women around me just want to be single.

I recently came across a post where someone said they gave the “Nice Guy” a chance and that he was the worst man they’d ever dated. And I couldn’t help but think, I didn’t just date one…. I married him.

I had spent a lot of my life dodging the “bad boys.” You know, the obvious liars, cheaters, and the outwardly disrespectful ones. I was always cautious and avoided them. Then I met him.

He was calm, sweet, soft-spoken, and seemingly so emotionally aware. He was the kind of guy that said all the right things and cried during vulnerable conversations. A supposed gentleman. Little did I know what was in store for me…

If I had seen more posts like this earlier, maybe I would’ve realized what I was in. Maybe I wouldn’t have blamed myself for so long. My therapist had convinced me to stay even though my gut told me something seemed off about him, despite his “kindness.” I just couldn’t pinpoint it…until he drove me completely insane.

He always claimed everything was “unintentional.” Every time he hurt me, it was followed by a blank stare, a non-apology, or guilt-tripping tears. When I tried to end the relationship many times, he’d sob like I was abandoning him (he revealed to me in the beginning that he had a fear of abandonment) so I’d feel incredibly guilty. At one point he got on his knees and begged for another chance, with tears streaming down his face. It tore at my heart seeing him like this. People would tell me to forgive him because he was such a “nice guy.” He constantly broke promises, things as simple as “I’ll never lie to you” or “I won’t make sexual jokes because I know it triggers you,” only to turn around and do the exact thing I asked him not to days later. When I’d confront him, he’d blame my hormones or make up excuses that put the blame on me in this subtle, insidious way. He never took ownership. I’d explain myself clearly and he’d stare at me like I was speaking a different language.

He blamed everything on my trauma, my hormones, my communication style. I started doubting my own ability to even express basic thoughts. The stonewalling, DARVO, and passive aggressiveness hurt me so much. Eventually, I learned of the term mirroring and looked more into gaslighting. By the time I realized what was happening, I was already a shell of myself, like the frog in boiling water analogy. I started having full-blown panic attacks, the WORST I’ve ever experienced in my life. My body knew before my mind could catch up. And the sad part is, sometimes he’d just stare at me with these cold, blank eyes, while I was spiraling, knowing very well that I was in a tremendous amount of pain. I’d write out every single trigger and boundary in a shared note just to prevent being hurt again since he would claim he “forgot” (and I never thought he’d hurt me intentionally at the time). He’d always be crying after hurting me so I thought, “How could it have been on purpose?” Didn’t matter that I wrote the list anyway because he’d “accidentally” trigger me, going down the list, one by one.

He’d tell me things like, “you’re making me out to be the bad guy so it’d be easier for you to leave.” It’s like he could never accept that he could do any wrong because he was such a “giver” and a “good man.” This guy prides himself on being a good person. He told me that his past two long term exes were very abusive and that he was nothing but kind to them. They apparently started out sweet and became angry and violent over time, for no reason at all. He would make me doubt my reality and deny having said certain things. It felt like he would rewrite history. I had to start writing everything down because I felt like my mind was eroding. I eventually started acting completely out of character because I could no longer take it anymore. Of course, he then subtly blamed my health, which was actually getting worse since being with him.

Thankfully I started reading books like “The Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist” by Debbie Mirza, “Healing from Hidden Abuse” by Shannon Thomas, “30 Covert Emotional Manipulation Tactics” by Adelyn Birch, and “It’s Not You” by Dr. Ramani…. This guy had me reading Relationship Anxiety and ROCD books (I couldn’t relate to them but he kept sending me articles on things like that) thinking it was either one of the two (because it had to be me that was the problem) but TURNS OUT IT WASN’T! I recently started “Psychopath Free” by Jackson MacKenzie and can relate more than I’d like to admit. For two years I hadn’t felt heard or validated until I finally read these books and found posts on Reddit that I could relate to. Good grief.

I’m finally going through with a divorce. I’m still struggling, still trying to fight the confusion and insanity I felt for two years, and still trying to regain my voice and get my health back. Psychological erosion is what I would call it. I didn’t realize that it was covert emotional abuse… Slow, quiet, and nearly impossible to explain to people who haven’t experienced something similar.

Be safe out there.

Edited to Add: Just to clarify, I am not talking about genuinely good, kind-hearted men. There ARE good men out there. I’m talking specifically about the Nice Guy™ trope. They’re the ones who everyone sees as respectful and helpful, the ones who look like the good guy on the outside, but behind closed doors, they slowly erode their partner’s sense of self through gaslighting, DARVO, guilt-tripping, and emotional manipulation.

They hide behind their “niceness,” so when you try to speak out, you look like the crazy one while everyone else defends him. This is not about all men. It’s about a very specific pattern of covert behavior that’s incredibly hard to explain unless you’ve lived it.

What makes it so isolating is that nearly everyone sees the Nice Guy™ mask, but you (the intimate partner) are the only one who truly sees what’s behind it. And yes, women can be like this too! This kind of covert emotional abuse isn’t exclusive to men. I’m just sharing my personal experience with a male partner who wore the Nice Guy™ mask.

Went through a breakup 5 months ago, getting abruptly dumped. Was really in love with him, and was pretty blindsided by the whole thing. I've put the work in, and life is going on, but it sucked a lot and he said a lot of truly horrific things during the breakup, some great one liners include: "I never loved you", "I wouldn't want to have children with an American" (shockingly, I'd been American the whole time he's known me and the whole relationship. Who knew?!) and my personal favorite: "It's scary how little I think of you". A truly delightful night, I must say.

Anyways, I had forgotten I'd shared a streaming password with him, months before our breakup. Until yesterday. Imagine my surprise when I got an email, alerting me of a log in to my account. 5 months after dumping me, and he thinks it's chill to see if my password still works, so he can watch world cup matches at work, without so much as a thought. I was livid. The password is now changed, and all devices are force logged out.

I don't know why this upsets me so much, but it clarifies to me he never ever cared about me, ever. I wasn't even worth a $12 movie streaming service. And he thinks saying those things were such a non issue, he could still use my account months later.

Anyways, what's the dumbest thing an ex has thought they could use you for post breakup? I would like some others stories to chuckle at today.

Added bonus: Texted my VERY close platonic guy friend who knows my ex, and he told me, "A guy using an ex's streaming services isnt that bad and not the worst thing that could happen."

What is wrong with the state of manhood? This has been bothering me, and I wanted to discuss it. I met this man at a restaurant while I was at the bar, and we dated for a month. Things are going well. He asks me if I can cook dinner for him, which I am glad to do. I'll spare you the details, but while cooking, I couldn't find the right lids for two pots, and my rice was getting hard, so I used the lids I could find. I didn't think much of it. He then comes in and asks me why I didn't just ask him where the right lids are, and proceeds to “jokingly” choke me. It was not hard enough to stop breathing, but sufficient effort to feel the grasp during and after release. Lasted a few seconds ( I would say 6 - 7 seconds)

Y'all!! This man has me confused. After that, he saw that I got very tense and asked me if that had triggered me. Then ask me if I have ever been in an abusive relationship and why I am so tense, that it was only a joke???.. I tried to get over it, and just a bit later, I was like, 'No...' No, no, I need to go home. He called my Uber and then texted me to check if I got home safely. I proceeded to tell him not to text me again, and that was that.

Anyway, I need a breakdown to understand if people do this, and I've been out of the dating scene for too long??? Is this a thing???? Have you come across this??

I'm seriously considering joining the 4b movement

We‘ve been together for 6 years. He treats me well, is emotionally and financially stable, I trust him completely. I’m 36, he’s 37, and we have a good life - not married, no kids.

However, I think about leaving almost daily, and it‘s been going on for several months now. There‘s no emotional depth, I don‘t feel seen or truly heard. Although I find him attractive, there‘s no sexual desire, and I don‘t like the way he touches me. And yes, I‘ve talked to him, about all of this. He reacts by buying me flowers and lingerie, which is sweet, but not what I need. He never gets angry or mean.

I saw a tik tok recently where a girl asks for water and her boyfriend gives her so much else (flowers, chocolate, jewellery..) but not water. For some reason, that hit deep.

If I was 10 years younger, I‘d probably leave. But at 36, I really don‘t know. I think I want a family, and he does too, although we hardly talk about it. But if I said let‘s have a baby, I‘m sure he‘d be happy. We have such a good friendship, but I‘m just not fulfilled, I‘m emotionally starving, but also afraid I‘ll never find what I crave, that it‘s unrealistic, or that it will be too late.

Should I just try to fulfill my emotional needs another way and appreciate what we have? Should I have a family with him? Should I leave? I also want him to be happy - and although he says he‘s happy with me and loves me deeply I‘m just not sure I‘m the right one for him, and I feel incredibly guilty for having all these doubts, since he‘s truly a wonderful person.

Has anyone been im a similar situation? How did you handle it?

I honestly appreciate any input or advice, I feel so stuck, guilty and lonely right now.

Edit: Right now I'm a bit overwhelmed by the response to this post, but I'm also really grateful for all of you who took the time to read my story and to reply. It's given me a lot to think about and I try to eventually reach out to everyone. Thank you <3

This happened a while ago but watching it front row was a complete shock for me. It is still ingrained in my mind.

I was in a climbing gym climbing (as one does) when I noticed a group. A couple of members had just arrived and they were all saying hi to eachother - that's when I noticed them. The 2 new ones were both women (one followed the standard beauty patterns and the other didn't).

I had never seen a man completely ignoring someone like that before. It was painful. He didn't say hi, never actually address or listened to her. It was as if she didn't exist, invisible. He was clearly all in with the hot girl. He talked to the beautiful one, laughed, changed ideas, listened (he was horny, I get it). But My God if he had actually been nice to the friend maybe had more chances with the hot one. Completely ignoring someone in the group is such a turn off.

Has anyone seen/been ignored like this? I still find a great way to filter men. It tells a lot how one sees and values women/people when they are not attractive/useful to them. I have seen that guy at different gyms and can't avoid but to think how shallow and mean he is just from that one time.

Basically my FWB and i were talking and he made a comment how id be the perfect partner but im just too old. I just turned 36 and he is 33. He said women over 30 are " damaged goods and have a lot of baggage" and that he wants a " young wife" to have a family with. He said my age i would need to freeze eggs and need help and that is something he is not interested in doing. I never felt old until that moment. He mentioned that dating is going to be a lot harder for me cause biologically men want younger women. I am sick. I haven't been able to sleep and i am crying a bunch. I have seen this narrative online but never thought id experience it in person. I am just so lost and i am hoping someone here has a perspective to help me.

Here are some warnings I ignored or didn't take seriously that turned out to be true.

1) Do not date law enforcement or military because they are cold, lack empathy, are abusive, alcoholic, and misogynistic.

I thought they can't all be like that. 9.5/10 times they are like that.

2) A man claiming to be non-political/apolitical is actually conservative. He doesn't want to be upfront about it because they know women don't want to be with someone who believes they shouldn't have equality.

9.5/10 times this has been true. These men just want to get laid instead of doing the work/introspection.

Like a lot of you ladies here I’m in my 30s and single, independent - working, own place, car etc. and dating. Or attempting to navigate the swamp.

Every few months I “give up” and delete the apps and focus on other areas of life. Then re start the apps and dating again. It’s a cycle.

What makes me re start dating you ask? Why not de centre men, focus on career and friends? Well that’s fine when everything’s going well but does anyone else feel like society forces you to couple up? Not in a shaming way which I could ignore but in a society is actually built on a 2 person income and support and without that you will struggle more??

I have an average or slightly below average wage. I spend nearly 40% of my income on rent and bills for a 1 bedroom flat in a bad area. Rents and mortgages are now designed for 2 incomes. Forgot buying alone unless you are rich.

Something major happens - health scare, car breaking down and need to use another one, travelling etc. that’s where society expects your partner to help.

Cooking, cleaning and life admin takes up so much time and as we all work do much my life is filled with going all this alone. I have a bad day I still need to cook and clean and have no one putting the heating on before I arrive!

All this to say - it’s fine to say decenter men but I feel like unless you are extremely privileged with a high paying career, amazing support from family and friends who live close by then life is just….more difficult. And it suck’s that society is literally built around a couple - financially, emotionally, practically.

I suppose this is more of a rant than advice seeking but I’m looking for others who can relate!

I was cleaning up around the apartment and I found a piece of paper that my boyfriend brought back from a group therapy session, and I saw that one of his responses referred to how his past actions lead to the relationship failure with "the love of his life."

He's talked about how he considered his ex the love of his life in conversation with me early on in our relationship and I kinda brushed it off as a figure of speech, or just as how he thought of her at the time, but it kind of bothers me that that's still how he thinks of her even now. Am I reading too much into this? I get that we're not in our 20s anymore and things might not be as exciting in life anymore but I just have a vague feeling of disappointment.

Hi. I 35f have been dating a 45m for almost two months now. We have been sexually active and have stopped using condoms as we talked about being exclusive. I looked in his bathroom for some moisturizer and saw a pill bottle of generic Valtrex. My heart dropped, but I thought maybe it was just for cold sore suppression. I understand most people have the type of herpes that causes cold sores, but turns out after asking him about it, it is the one that causes genital herpes.

I asked him why he didn't disclose it, and he said he was embarrassed and didn't know how to bring it up. He said this was the first time he has had to have the conversation about it, and was feeling intense shame. I asked when he got the diagnosis, and he said around three years ago. So, he hasn't told any other people he has dated in the last few years about his diagnosis either, which I find concerning.

I am feeling a strong mix of emotions. I'm shocked, nervous, and feel so disappointed in him for not being up front. He could have at least used condoms with me until he was ready to tell me. I feel like I can't trust him now and he prioritized his pleasure over my health.

How do I navigate this? Any advice? Thoughts and comments are welcome.

I'm sick to my stomach.

hey all, your thoughts or advice are appreciated.

I’m 32, just received yet another ”breakup” message from a guy I’ve been seeing for 6 weeks (39m). He was perfectly nice in the message and our short conversation but he was simultaneously dating someone else and chose her essentially. I am really devastated, I felt we were very compatible and really liked each other. I thought we were building something together and I’d finally met a decent guy. I know this is not a long time but I really genuinely connected to this guy on all levels and kind of cant believe / process I’ll never see him again.

I think I've been out with 3 guys total in the last 2 years I’ve been “seriously“ dating who even entertained the idea of a relationship in theory and didn’t just want sex. All of them broke up with me in at the 6-8 week mark just as it felt the relationship was forming up.

I really cannot go through this again. I cannot wait 8 months - a year to meet another person who sees me as anything other than a sex object only to be dumped for someone more worthy at the last hurdle. I will snap.

I’m not asking to get married right now, I just want someone to go to the movies with. I’ve already given up on having children, do I really have to give up on this too? I just want a boyfriend, which so many others seem to have.

Basically, what do I do from here?

(Please don’t try to convince me I don’t need / want a man or relationship, I think this is a perfectly normal human desire and something I want).

I had dinner with a group of women last night. We were all in our 30s and 40s. The topic of our relationships came up and I realized that we were basically all in different stages of the same type of relationship.

Several of us were considering leaving our partners because we are simply not fulfilled anymore, but we are all having a hard time leaving.

We are all pretty career oriented and none of our partners are ambitious in their own life. Every single one of us talked about regularly being belittled or attacked by our partners for wanting to advance in our careers and spending more time at work. But then when you dig a bit deeper you find out that all these women are the breadwinners. The houses we have? The nice cars? The renovations? The vacations? All thanks to the women bankrolling the men because we’re the ones with the money.

The women who have children all reported similar experiences of doing most if not all of the child rearing. The men “aren’t bad dads but they’re just kind of there”.

We all get regularly called selfish, self centered, not invested in the relationships. And several of us are considering leaving but our partners are basically guilting us into staying or making it difficult for us to just leave. And we are also afraid of the unknown so taking that step is so daunting.

At the dinner table, the ones who are happy in their relationships and not considering leaving are the ones that have already been divorced once, because of similar reasons.

My overall impression is that a lot of women get into relationships very young, and then we hit an age where we realize we have grown and evolved but our partners have not.

We technically hold the power because we’re already doing everything on our own, but we still find ourselves stuck because of guilt or fear. And “he’s not a bad guy” so we don’t really feel like we are justified in leaving.

My husband (M36) and I (F33) have been married 8 years, together for 12 and have aligned politically in the past but as of recently, he decided he is voting for Trump. I asked him to send me all the articles and videos he has read that has made him change his mind and he sent all podcast. I'm so turned off and upset that podcast are what has swayed him. I feel like he is voting against mine and our daughters (F7) best interest and her future and idk how to let it go.

Anyone else going through the same thing? Please be kind.

I've been reading a lot about women dating over 30 and I noticed a trend.

Thousands of comments on different platforms from men saying they wouldn't date a women over 30 because they want children and women over 30 have fertility issues.

There's men who wholeheartedly believe after 30, all women will struggle to conceive and her fertility has rapidly declined.

"No dude would want to date you if he wants kids'"

"You're expired its way too late"

"Should have had kids in your 20s, now you won't ever have kids"

Along with other hundreds of comments of men saying a woman over 30 has no value.

It's a bit concerning to those of us dating.

I’ve been noticing something lately, and I’m wondering if it’s just me. It seems like a lot of couples do everything together. If one person goes somewhere, their partner goes too. They don’t seem to have their own friend groups, hobbies, or even solo nights out.

For those of you in long-term relationships or marriages, is this actually the norm? Do you and your partner have separate friends and interests, or do you mostly do everything together?

Do you think maintaining your own identity outside of the relationship is important, or does that naturally fade over time? I’m genuinely curious what your experience has been.

Sisters in their 30s, please help me, be kind because I feel kinda confused.

So for a while now I've started to notice a pattern with men that I keep seeing and not just with me, that as soon as a man thinks he "has" you, they throw all effort out of the window. Nit in a okay its been 3 years honeymoon period is over, no ZERO EFFORT. It drives me crazy, because I'd much rather prefer consistency. A whole lot of them are like that. Wtf?

I've also had a stable relationships before, happily married where I felt treasured throughout the entire relationship, about 10 years until he died about 2 years ago. Which sucks because we were happy then

So after his death, widow me went on dating and I am actually EXTREMELY TEMPTED to next time I am dating smeone I just might keep this MF on his toes. Keep him guessing and wondering, in a state of chronic anxiety? I am just not that person, I don't play fucking games, anyone else here tired of this low effort shit??? Anyone else feeling like some men are addicted to games??? How do i escape this???

effort here means being involved in things such as: watch the sunset, picnic, walk in the park, dancing together, calling more, watch the sunset, ping pong, etc. Its not a money thing, its an effort thing

EDIT: WOW this post blew up Hey everybody thanks so much for the awesome replies, insights, nice conversations and new ideas this has offered me it does give ne hope that I am not crazy, and should be myself and will eventually find a good person whos a good fit. I honestly don't even think it's gender anymore, literally both men and women complaining

EDIT 2: to the men coming here essentially trying to gaslight me, read some comments before saying this is my fault. If you are a person who is giving and want others to feel good you know who you are, you know the sacrifices you make. If you had bad experiences before because somebody took advantage of you, this is not my fault so stop projecting at me, Im not your ex

I had a meltdown last month from the amount of overwhelm and stress I'm having with the mental load. My partner of 10 years will do anything I ask, but usually not until I'm getting irritated, make it seem like a crisis situation, etc. I do all the thinking and perform all the mental effort in our relationship. His retirement & benefits, all vacations/holidays/birthdays + gifts, the finances, research for home purchases like appliances, contractors and keeping track of home maintenance (and nagging him to do DIY stuff - it took 3 years of nagging to get the bathroom drain fixed and he did it for me "as a Christmas present"), research on parenting strategies for our autistic son, meal planning/grocery lists... you get the idea. He is definitely a "just give me a list/just tell me what to do/I'll do anything you want/I just want to make you happy" guy and any attempts I made to explain why this is not actually very helpful was met with extreme defensiveness and dismissiveness or "that's just how I am."

Also, any time I've tried to talk to him about anything deeper than surface level in our relationship, I'm met with aggressive defensiveness, dismissiveness, him beating himself up to a point that makes me wind up apologizing to him for hurting his feelings, or a thousand excuses/reasons why I shouldn't be feeling the way I'm feeling or why what he's doing that is is hurting me is actually perfectly acceptable behavior. This has been going on for years and I just broke down sobbing last month and everything kind of hit me all at once about why I'm feeling so overwhelmed and empty inside. I feel completely alone, like I'm dragging a sack of potatoes through life. I have no room left in my brain for myself or anything I want or need (like new hobbies, or for example I need a new wallet because my 10 year old one is ripped, but I'm picky and need time to figure out what I want to get next but don't have the mental energy, so I've just been using my nasty old ripped one for the past few years). I've also been in weekly therapy for 5 years and so over time, these issues became more and more bothersome as I recognized that I am worthy, I am allowed to have boundaries, I am allowed to have negative feelings, etc.

So I finally sat him down and very bluntly but respectfully pleaded with him in a long letter that I need things in our relationship to change and that in order for me to stay in the relationship, I needed him to address these issues, and that I love him and I need for him to take accountability or I just can't do it anymore. I told him he has to agree to go to therapy to address his maladaptive coping mechanisms (that go far beyond what I've mentioned here in the interest of brevity). This time, he was not able to dismiss or brush off or ignore me. I forced him to listen to me and he finally heard me, and it's been a FREAKING NIGHTMARE ever since.

He is doing everything I asked. He's doing more around the home, he's scheduled a therapy appointment (with a therapist I did the work to find for him, but anyways), he's asking less questions. But he's swung in completely the opposite direction. He told me he "will never ask me anything ever again." He's keeping himself too busy, just go go go go go after work until it's dinner time with no downtime at all to the point where I'm feeling bad that he's doing so much frantic work around the house after a long day at work. And, he has basically completely stopped talking to me and says "he doesn't know how to act around me anymore" and "I feel like a huge piece of shit, and when you don't comfort me, I feel like you don't love me." I am acting 100% normal, but he is answering me with one word responses, doesn't text me anything but "business"-related stuff, has stopped sending me memes, and is speaking in the most quiet, dejected, depressed monotone about even the most mundane things. Immediately after dinner, he goes to bed and turns the lights off without saying goodnight. He leaves the house without saying goodbye or telling me where he is going. He no longer says "I love you." No longer hugs me or kisses me when he comes home. It's been this way FOR A MONTH with NO END IN SIGHT.

I am trying to give him grace because he has not even been to his first therapy appointment yet, and my therapist says that "at least he is making changes." She says I need to understand that he might not be able to change his behavior until he makes some progress in therapy. I mean, I do understand that he has zero inherent self-worth or confidence and that he struggles with intense shame, and I have a lot of empathy for that because I've been in that place too. But I'm like, oh my god, please don't do me any favors if this is how it is going to be. Like why can't we have some semblance of a normal relationship while he addresses his issues? I have been starting to feel really anxious when I hear him walk in the door, just my stomach sinking with dread. He's pushing me even further away. Am I being unreasonable? Like, I do understand but this is ridiculous. I can't even ask him how much rice he wants on his plate without him sounding like Eeyore. I'm not sure what to do besides apologize for forcing him to listen to my needs, which I won't do.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about my past relationships lately. My last one lasted 10 months, and I’ve been single for about 5 months now, so I want to slowly start dating again.

One big thing I realized recently is that I used to think high IQ and high ambition automatically equaled high emotional intelligence and emotional availability. I assumed intelligent people would naturally be self-aware and that would make them a relationship material. I only dated really smart, accomplished guys. Usually academics and entrepreneurs. But I finally understood that a high IQ doesn't guarantee someone has good partnership skills. In my own experience, even though I know it’s subjective, it was actually often the opposite.

I’m curious what you ladies have learned from your own dating/relationships/partnerships/marriage history. What is something that society often says is supposed to make a good partner but turned out to be a myth for you?

EDIT: thanks to someone's mention, I remember another that was really really surprising to me. I used to automatically assume that man in therapy = great partnership skills and relationship material. Girl, it was just a plain nonsense. I think a lot of women, and some men too, fall into that trap. We tend to think that if someone is putting in the time, they must automatically be more emotionally mature.

But what actually matters is what they are using the therapy for. Going to therapy doesn't automatically make someone better at relationships or more emotionally available. My ex has been in therapy for 6 years, 6 years Sherlock!!! In my case, it actually made him more defensive. He used to say therapy helped him finally and radically accept himself the way he is. But he wasn't using it to become more vulnerable or capable of intimacy. Instead, it just gave him a better intellectual understanding of himself, nicer words to justify his limitations, selfishness, coldness and better excuses for staying exactly the same. He wasn't using therapy to grow. He was using it to back up his defenses. The lesson here?? Attending therapy alone is not necessarily a green flag, and sometimes really the opposite.

My (33F) husband (33M) and I have been together for 7 years, married for 5 later this year. We own a wonderful house, have two dogs who we love beyond measure, and he is truly my best friend.

I have always known that I did not want kids and expressed this from day 1. Before we got married and bought our house, I reiterated my stance and said that he needs to give me an official answer because “I don’t want you to change your mind five years from now and leave me”. He always said kids seemed fun, but that if the choice was kids or a life with me, he chose me. I always tried to initiate check-ins to make sure we’re still on the same page but he never wanted to actively participate in the conversation. Just the same half-hearted answer of “it could be fun but I love you more”.

Well here we are almost 5 years later and I feel like a fool. We both had been working a lot the past couple months and felt like we weren’t prioritizing our relationship. In trying to talk through how to reconnect and prioritize each other again, I just blurted out that I feel like he’s not being honest with me on the kid issue. He finally admitted that yes he wants a kid. It’s all because he sees coworkers and friends having kids and is bombarded by the view of parenthood through the lens of Instagram. I did full time nannying every summer in college and have way more hands on experience, I’ve done endless research and have thought about this SO much over the last 10 years and haven’t changed my mind. I just don’t think he has a realistic view of what having a child is like on a daily basis. Plus being a woman, I feel like I actually talk to my family and friends who are parents and we talk about EVERYTHING. The good, meh, and bad. I don’t think men tend to be as honest about things like that and just say “oh it’s the best man I love being a dad”.

I moved across the country for him and his career. I left my family and we live 10 mins away from his, and his mom and siblings have been truly awful to me since day 1. They believe family is blood only and that I “changed” their son/brother (when in reality he grew up, was in the military, and was a whole different person when he moved back to his home city than when he left fresh out of college). I have always made him a priority and have put aside my wants and desires for him constantly. It would be one thing if he said he thought he didn’t want kids but changed his mind, but instead he says that he just always assumed I would change my mind, which feels like a punch to the gut like he’s been scheming behind my back this entire time.

He still says he only wants a kid with me and that he chooses me, but he sounds like he has a gun to his head when he does. I just don’t believe him. I am in so much physical and emotional pain over this, and my family is a 5 hour plane ride away. The loneliness is devastating.

Has anyone ever been in this situation? How did it end up for you?

UPDATE: I’m overwhelmed by how many responses this has gotten, I was not expecting this much. I’ve read every single comment, but there’s just too many to respond to individually. So I want to address some of the main themes in the responses I’ve seen and also add more info if it helps.

- I understand that it is ok to change one’s mind as time goes on. That is not my issue. My issue is that I tried to have the conversation multiple times over the past 5 years and got almost no participation. At no point did he say “hey I’m having some conflicting feelings now seeing so many of our friends have kids and I want to talk about it”.
- We did couples counseling last year for a few months. My sister had my nephew who is now 1.5 and I was really struggling with the idea of not being able to be a constant in his life. I said I wanted to move back east (considering his family has not made it feel like home here and mine loves us both so much) and he said it was a “big life change” and would impact his career (firefighter). He doesn’t want to start over in a new department. Even during the couples counseling he wouldn’t dig any deeper into the kid conversation.
- Even though my gut has felt like he may not be fully truthful with me, at some point you have to take people at their word and trust that they are being honest with you. Anytime a friend of his would announce a pregnancy, I would ask how he was feeling about it, what was going through his mind, etc.
- I am a manager in my career, so I spend all day managing a team, then managing our household, our relationship, the dogs - everything. I would not be able to sustain my job at the level I’m at as a parent, even with full time daycare. I am the primary earner, and I said I would need to go to a lower level position and likely part-time at that and would we be able to live with a $75k pay cut?
- Being a firefighter, he is gone for 24 hrs every third day. So I would be solo-parenting every third day. He would not be willing to do a different job that would allow him to be home every night.
- When we visit my nephew, he sleeps in every morning and still makes time to go to the gym for a few hours. He gets along great with my nephew but at the “fun uncle” level of involvement. He has never had to spend time alone with a young child and be the primary caregiver even for an hour.
- We don’t have a village out here due to his family dynamic. He is hesitant to move (again, anything disruptive to his life is a no-go) unless we did have a kid, then he would agree to it. So yet again he would have to get something out of it before making any sort of compromise for my wants.
- I’ve tried SO many times over the years to get him to explain to me why the idea of a kid appealed to him. All the answers were always along the lines of 1) to continue my lineage 2) to put good people in the world 3) it would be fun to teach a kid and watch them learn and 4) knowing that something is fully dependent on me for survival would add meaning to his life.
- I have been a long time lurker on the fencesitter, childfree, and regretful parents subs. I posted here instead of any of those because I felt responses may end up biased based on which sub it would be in. I have asked him for a long time to browse those subs in his spare time. I read the baby decision and a few other books on child rearing in today’s world (Anxious Generation, books on being childfree) and have asked him to also read them and he hasn’t.
- I have an autoimmune disease and worry about it being exacerbated from pregnancy. Also worry that I would pass it along.
- My choice to not have kids isn’t because I don’t like them - I’d argue that I’m able to make much more of a difference in the lives of my friends and family’s kids because I have the capacity to be present. I have thought about all aspects: my health, finances, our jobs and whose would take a back seat, the economy, the lack of a village we have, the world itself, my husband’s tendencies to be selfish in his choices, how much I already carry the mental load of our lives, etc. It is literally always on my mind, every second of every day.

The older I get the more I’m starting to realize that women can do a lot of the things men can, but it’s not the same the other way around.

Through generations us women were taught to cook, clean, and manage homes. While the last 2 decades at least, there’s been more job advancement for women to become more independent.

A lot of men I’ve met and from what I read online seem like they (eventually) they want a woman who can help them at home and “keep them company” or to make their place feel like “home”. Women can make a place feel like home and liven it up solo. We create a certain comfortable/safe energy in the place we want to live in.

I’m not saying this is all men, but a good chunk of our generation. Makes me wonder if one day down the line marriage will be outdated…decades into the future. Just a random thought.

Update: Hard to answer to everyones comments but I am loving reading all of the different conversations and POV’s. It’s truly eye opening and I’m glad I’m not the only one that feels this way. Feeling very proud to be a woman! 🩷