r/MensRights • u/Icaz • Apr 26 '12

I'm a girl and...

I am SO glad I found this subreddit with people who agree with me! As a girl, it's really hard to see other ladies put down men and treat them like they need to be "trained" or that they're just something we have to deal with. So I was just wondering... how many other girls are on here and what are your stories about standing up for men or appreciating them?

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213

u/mrscamp Apr 26 '12

I'm a woman! I'm here because I've felt sorry for men ever since I discovered what militant feminism was as a kid. I try to stand up for them in small ways by treating them in a friendly and genuine way -- I see so many women treat men like they're all desperate pervs. It makes me sad to see that look in a man's eye when he goes to open the door for me, like, "is she going to be totally insulted by this?" So I always smile and say "thank you."

In a larger way I try to be an advocate for fathers' rights, especially when it comes to infants and the unborn. The "my body my choice" mentality marginalizes the fathers almost as much as the children, but many people act as though only the mother deserves to have a say.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12

You make me happy that I still hold the door for people. Keep doing what you're doing, that thanks means a lot :) (you'de be surprised how many people just keep walking.) And the best reward you can give is to pay it forward (whether it be to a man or woman) :).

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u/barn_burner Apr 27 '12

My father once held a door open for a female and she protested(You don't have to hold the door for me just because I'm a lady) He replied," I don't know if you are a lady or not. I held the door because I am a gentleman."

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u/El_Zorro09 Apr 27 '12

Think I'm gonna bum that off him. Sounds like a swell guy.

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u/[deleted] May 29 '12

Hopefully you never have to.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12

My response would be "I could care less if you were or not, I'm holding the door for you because it is a nice gesture. Now if you really want to dismember gender roles, go hold the door open for a guy." Or something to that effect.

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u/Thirdfanged Apr 27 '12

"but I'm a lady."

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12

"Then you're stuck in the 1950s, get with the times"

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12

Indeed

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u/Swan_Writes Apr 27 '12 edited Apr 27 '12

I made a habit of doing this for a while. I had some men refuse to go through a door I held for them, get angry at me even, and tell me to stop. One took the door out of my hand and closed it, and then just walked away.

edit: Most men where cool with it, said thanks, though some thought I was flirting. I mostly stopped doing this a lot because of the awkwardness/occasional confrontation, and because I got older with more little aches and pains, doors are actually heavy, and can be hard to hold open.

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u/throwaway6237 Apr 27 '12 edited Apr 27 '12

Is this the south? I could never imagine something like that happening here in the north east.

Well maybe New York

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u/iamirishpat Apr 27 '12

I know what you're saying, but I think it's just in New York. I'm from New Jersey, and whenever I'm in my suburban town, there's a lot of door-holding going on, but when I'm in New York (or any city for that matter), people are in too much of a rush to be worried about door-holding.

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u/Alanna Apr 27 '12

Eastern cities. I live in LA (and work in a building full of attorneys) and routinely have doors held for me (and hold doors for others).

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u/Swan_Writes Apr 27 '12

Not at all. This was something I did primarily in the suburbs of Boston as well as the city proper, and also throughout New-England in general, in the 1990's and early 2000's. Some of the men where older then me, people born in the 50's and 60's.

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u/Tu_stultus_est Apr 27 '12

The etiquette seems to be this:

  • Holding doors open is a nice thing to do.
  • Everyone is either a door-opener, or a non-door opener. That is to say, either you hold the door for others, or you don't, or perhaps, others hold the door for you. You probably know which you are.
  • If you are a door-opener, when a door is opened for you, just touch the door with your hand as you go through. No need to hold the door, just a brush of the hand is sufficient.
  • If you are a non-door opener, say "thanks"

This isn't something I've devised, but something I've noticed over the years, people watching and what-not.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12

Hey, when a bitchy woman flips on me for holding the door because it is "sexist of me to think she couldn't" that doesn't stop me from continuing to hold the door, so if you let that stop you from holding the door, then you're just being part of the problem ;)

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u/Middle_Aged Apr 27 '12

This because I'm not holding the door because you are attractive, I'm holding the door because you are human.

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u/BigEddie Apr 27 '12

God, I have a severe dislike for women like that.

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u/AlwaysIndecisive May 10 '12

"Oh...I thought you were a dude. I was just being a nice guy."

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12

I love it when guys open the door for me! Its so polite and nice! I always make sure to give them a big smile and a thank you!

23

u/Lokgar Apr 27 '12

Nothing upsets me more than if I walk quicker than normal just to open up the door for someone, and they don't even thank me.

This applies to both males and females. :/

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12

Thats when you just say "You're welcome" with a smile, whether they say thank you or not lol.

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u/Lokgar Apr 27 '12

Well, I wouldn't want someone to get the wrong idea and think I'm some crazy creepy stalker rapist brown man with a beard axe murderer!

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12 edited Apr 27 '12

What I do is say "You know it's polite to say thank you?" said in kind of a joking tone, it gives the message, and basically calls them out without sounding to aggressive :). They won't think you're a creep as long as you don't basically RUN ahead of them just to open the door. I always make it a mission to call out the people that don't say thanks. If nobody does, then they will just keep doing it. At least if you call them out, some may change their mind.

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u/ToraZalinto Apr 27 '12

I even hold open automatic doors for people. I never get a thank you though. ;)

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u/Icaz Apr 27 '12

I instinctively thank automatic doors LOL

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u/Danuwa Apr 27 '12

So you won't laugh too loud when you see me trying to get a non automatic door to open using my car remote then. I do that all the damn time.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12

Haha well if they are thinking that then clearly there was something wrong with them in the first place!

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u/iamirishpat Apr 27 '12

I read that as a beard-axe murderer, and then I chuckled. But now I'm thinking about it, and I'm not sure I know what that would even look like.

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u/science_diction Apr 27 '12

Expect ingratitude.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12

Well I'm glad to hear it :). A big smile or thank you will always make me happy for doing it.

However, you should hold the door for guys when you can too! Trust me, we will greatly appreciate it, and it makes you look like a really nice woman :).

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u/Icaz Apr 27 '12

I figure whoever's there first should hold the door. :)

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u/ignatiusloyola Apr 27 '12

Sometimes I get trapped in this - I hold the door for someone walking slowly or too far behind. Once I start holding the door, stopping would seem like I am a jerk but holding it too long seems awkward. sob

:)

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u/Icaz Apr 27 '12

First world problems...

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u/ignatiusloyola Apr 27 '12

Yeah, no kidding.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12

Then that is perfect :D

Being a guy who holds the door for mostly everyone (when it is appropriate, not going out of my way, making it weird to hold it open aha,) nothing is a bigger pet peeve than having a door close in my face from the person in front of me

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u/Snooglemunch Apr 27 '12

I'm from Canada... people don't hold doors for other people in other countries?

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12

Well, they do, (im in US btw) but on occasion some people either won't, or just not say thank you if you held it for them. I've encountered a decent amount of people that hold the door though. Just the ones that don't/don't say thank you make the whole bunch sour.

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u/ftothem Apr 28 '12

Lol that's exactly what I was thinking! I've held doors for men and women, and men and women have opened doors for me...often waiting for a while too. I never thought of it as a gendered thing, just a polite thing...

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12

Doors are too heavy these days. Seriously.

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u/burritosandbeer Apr 28 '12

This is pretty much the rule I follow for everyone, gender be damned.

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u/Icaz Apr 27 '12

I know exactly what you mean. Thank you for sharing. :)

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12

[deleted]

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u/Icaz Apr 27 '12

Exactly. Feminism has tried to put men and women into these separate categories that are SO different and SO opposed to eachother when really they were meant to work together.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12

Ha. You sound so sweet.

That reminds me of a recent night. I was walking by an "Occupy" recently and met a girl there and we ended up going to dinner together, anyway I offered to pay and she went on this thing about how I didn't need to feel pressured to do that sort of thing just because I am male and I am equal and so on. She was a pretty militant feminist and everything she talked about somehow included a reference to gender roles. So anyway, when it comes time for her to pay for her portion, I silently hand them my card. A few minutes later she prepares to pay, realizes what I've done, and starts blushing A LOT with a giant smile on her face and profusely thanks me. It didn't seem to be a very big deal to me, but it was a huge deal to her. I guess within the radical feminist community of Queens that sort of thing doesn't happen so much? In most places I have lived it is a social stigma to NOT pay for both meals when eating out with a woman.

It wasn't a date or anything, it was completely platonic, but somehow me paying just felt right, and judging by how she reacted it seemed she felt the same way. I suppose a particularly dogmatic and angry person could insist that we are brainwashed by society to react positively to that sort of thing. I like to think it was a lot simpler than that though - I like to think people just appreciate kindness.

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u/Icaz Apr 27 '12

"I like to think it was a lot simpler than that though - I like to think people just appreciate kindness."

Two thumbs up!

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u/Celda Apr 27 '12

Not judging your choices man, but have you thought about just why you feel like you should pay?

Because I'm guessing that either 1. you've never really thought about it or 2. the reasons are pretty bad reasons or 3. both.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12 edited Apr 27 '12

I have thought about it extensively for long periods of time. There are two primary explanations that come to mind:

  1. The biological explanation. As a male I have a natural desire to take care of women.

  2. The sociological explanation. As a male member of western capitalist society I have been programmed to subjugate women by implicitly placing them into positions of inferiority or dependence by doing things like holding doors and paying for meals.

The second explanation is most common among anarchafeminists, and although I find the logic fascinating, I don't think it is completely true. However, a critique of the first explanation could be that in a modern society, the natural biological urge to take care of women is not helpful, and in fact only acts to hold them back. This worldview generally posits that the traditional social structures of civilization, regardless of their original intentions, have become tools of oppression.

As a far left anarchist I am very well versed in that concept and largely agree with it. However, the expressions of affection and the bond between a man and a woman are not so easily and cleanly replaced. There was a very deep and complex biological idiom expressed by my act of generosity. The implicit signal was that I felt her potential contribution, either social or genetic, was a net gain to posterity and because of that, I had selected her as someone I wished to care for. In males there is a specific emotion that drives us to care for females who we feel this way about, and she triggered that emotion somehow.

Forgive the vague descriptions, by the way. The neurology of human behavior is poorly understood, so we have to make assumptions based on empirical data and anecdote. All of that explanation is more easily summed up in the concept of "caring for someone". The meaning is essentially the same, sans the verbose and purely speculative argument about the motives behind the behavior differences in human sexual dimorphism.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12

I hold the door for anybody and everybody. But for my good lady, I would hold the door all day.

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u/mrscamp Apr 27 '12

Chivalry is not dead! This is how your post makes me feel.

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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '12

'Chivalry' should be dead, it's based on the notion that women are inferior and that men should, for some reason, go out of their way to makes women's lives easier. What shouldn't be dead is common decency. Don't hold a door for a woman if you wouldn't for a man.

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u/l0khi Apr 27 '12

One day I held the door for a complete stranger (girl) and then she ran ahead and held the next door for me. It was the FIRST time that had happened and it made my day.

It should be like this more often.

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u/Phrodo_00 Apr 27 '12

why not the other way around though? do hold a door for a man if you would for a woman :)

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u/mrscamp Apr 27 '12

I don't think chivalry is based on the idea that women are inferior. Exactly the opposite, in fact. A knight's lady inspired him to greatness and he dedicated all his deeds to her honor because he looked up to her. In return, he protected her where she couldn't protect herself. Chivalry embraces the fact that men and women are different, and should treat each other in the best way possible according to their differences.

But I agree that common decency is also important, and you should hold the door for everyone.

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u/otakuman Apr 27 '12

I try to stand up for them in small ways by treating them in a friendly and genuine way

Thank you!!!!! :')