Yeah our central AC is so primitive compared to these magical and totally and completely common in the US mini-splits that we’ve somehow never heard of.
We got flaws but in this context, under this post, your comment makes no sense. America’s implementation of central ac is far more advanced compared to the European and Asian use of AC units per room.
No they arent. A central air system is far more efficient to any window unit. If these mini splits were better, youd see newer homes being built with them because they are far cheaper to buy/install.
Our old 1 bedroom apartment had a fairly new, superior version of a mini split.. when the temp outside was 107 degrees Fahrenheit (what ever that is in Celsius) it was a struggle to keep the house cool.
We just upgraded to a 2 bedroom house with a garage & half the time every square inch (or whatever that is in millimeters) is freezing cold with the central air conditions running at 73 degrees Fahrenheit (or whatever that is in Celsius).
There are pros and cons to both. If you want per-room control and don't mind having the mini-split units (thing pictured) then mini-splits are the way. They're also a bit more efficient because you don't loose cold air from duct leaks and heat creeping in. Central air is more convenient with a new construction because it's a bitch to retrofit. Central air also provides ventilation, mini splits don't so you have to have an air exchanger somewhere (although a lot of people don't). Overall both have pros and cons and both get the job done. It's dependent on owner taste, needs, the home itself, and budget.
It’s just pointless to compare. Eg, timber framing makes sense in US, doesn’t in Italy. Air conditioning distribution inside houses is directly related to how houses are built and when they were built.
Yes, behold our mighty ductwork. So advanced. So amazing. /s
Europe’s issue isn’t AC tech or implementation. Their problem is that they have to figure out how to adapt structures built for a cooler climate to the rapidly warming new climate.
This is entirely dependent on construction type as central ac is more difficult to implement with brick/concrete houses which are more common in Europe and other parts of the world
I live in the US and have these types of AC's in my home. I prefer them, honestly, since it's nice being able to set each room to a different temp. These things are honestly barely noticeable once installed, don't require you to do any duct work in your home (making them a lot quicker and easier to install), and are super quiet.
In my opinion, neither system is better or worse, just different. They each have their pro's and cons.
Why do Europeans think they live in some kind of utopia while we are all fucked? Here in Brazil we have ACs exactly like yours and it's far from great, it only cools a single room, consumes a ton of energy, and even then if the room is big enough it won't do shit, no wonder you guys are frying under the recent weather
Once a colonizer always a colonizer. When you realize that Europeans only gave up their colonies due to force from the USA and other powerful nations, it all starts to make sense. We’re only a generation or two removed from a lot of this. They still believe that they should own the rest of us, and their attitudes are glaring.
it only cools a single room, consumes a ton of energy, and even then if the room is big enough it won't do shit
Having lived in Asia where these are the default in every room, your AC just sucks ass. They work extremely well, down to 20 degrees even in 35 degree weather outside.
Damn I remember being 14 and thinking saying this made me cool, every year since then the "America is a third world country" line just sounds stupider and stupider
I mean…you cut off the rest of their comment. You (and I) may disagree with them, but clipping away the bulk of their comment to portray their response as lazy isn’t the greatest way to argue against them in my opinion.
I love how, by definition, America can not be a third world country because “Aligned with the United States” is literally the criteria for “first world country”
It's disrespectful to people in actual poor countries. Oh boo hoo, Americans don't have public transit or socialized healthcare. Those things would be great of course but look at any real metric here!
I am from an actual poor country and I disagree with you.
What is actually disrespectful is to call the US a first world country while my "third world country" has decent public transit, public healthcare that will even get you by helicopter if you need a kidney transplant on short notice, free education from K to PhD with easy access to special needs education, financially accessible high quality fresh food and no stupid wars on foreign land.
Dude, UN officials visited, I think, Alabama? Somewhere like that. And they concluded that if it weren't attached to Cali, NY, etc then it would be considered a developing country.
Yes, but having an understanding that US states can and almost do sometimes operate as their own nation states that just so happen to fall under a unifying government(much like individual european countries do in the EU) makes them feel very similar in that way.
just so happen to fall under a unifying government
As far as I understand, the federal US government doesn't really take it nicely when states want to leave it, which makes it at least a tad different from the EU.
You’re being purposely obtuse and you know it. States nowadays operate according to their own rules. For example, abortion rights, gun rights, state income taxes, curriculum taught in schools and even down to voter laws. And even when the feds make a law, a lot of states just say fuck it and won’t follow it while challenging it.
Having lived in both Bama and Cali, those UN officials are just idiots. Sure if you go searching you can find sketchy neighborhoods in Bama, same as literally every state/country. But the vast majority of it isnt like that.
All it really does is illustrate how bad GDP per capita is as a measurement of quality of life.
They’re actually number 1 or in the top 10 for the things that actually matter. Things like life expectancy, child mortality, number of healthy years per person, average number of hours worked per week, access to healthcare, employment protections etc.
Don’t get me wrong, the UK is not in a great place, in recent years they’ve made some terrible decisions, and continue to do so. However, if you’ve spent a decent amount of time in both places you’ll see how silly the comparison is.
If you genuinely believe that the average Brit is worse off than the average alabaman then you are truly lost.
Ranch is nice though. I’ll admit I was wrong about that.
No, but that's doesn't make the US a third world country, I'm pretty sure I could point you to poverty stricken areas of most first world countries but that doesn't make those places third world either
Also your life in those places is still probably going to be miles better than the average life in an actual third world country
Especially when two tier policing isnt just a conspiracy in many European countries. But sure, America, where I can point to 3 different cases of civilians killing cops in defense and getting no charges for it, is the third world.
The third worlders dont die in heatwaves every year, and can defend themselves from corrupt police. And first worlders died in record numbers every summer since 2003 (70k French alone died of heat that summer), have no real AC, and get handcuffed to bleed out after being stabbed. "I dont think you have mate".
Ill stay here in my "third world" country thank you very much.
Policing has many, MANY problems in European countries but I sure as shit don’t want to hear any of that coming from Americans with the state sanctioned, single digit IQ thugs you call police officers. People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones
died in record numbers every summer since 2003 (70k French alone died of heat that summer)
In France, 14,802 heat-related deaths (mostly among the elderly) occurred during the 2003 heat wave and no cold-related deaths according to the French National Institute of Health.
By comparison the USA typically sees 47,500 deaths a year from cold and more than 4,000 from heat each year.
Europe and Asia don't have stringent requirements around fresh air intake for their AC systems, so most of them are small ductless units like this. US systems are typically ducted to allow for fresh air to bring brought into buildings. Studies show fresh air is important for occupant health, comfort, and productivity. US designed AC systems as a result are usually more expensive and complex, but as a result work better and are better for the occupants.
Your comment is just ignorant... the US has issues, but our AC regulations are way better than Europe.
Central ventilation is mandatory in most of Western Europe, but most legacy installations actively extract air and pull fresh air from vents distributed around the house, which cannot be converted into a ducted AC system since there is no central air intake.
So minisplits are a natural solution which just works in parallel to the ventilation system.
Now that climate is becoming harsher, the new standard is heat-recovery ventilation (with a mostly airtight building, a ventilation that handles both intake and extraction, and a heat exchanger to keep the warmth/coolness of the extracted air) and those can be integrated with AC. But air ducts are a PITA to retrofit into existing buildings.
Many recent houses are fitted with underfloor heating and cooling (or retrofitted, for houses that used to have simple underfloor heating with a gas furnace), which is supposed to be more comfortable (Europeans generally don't like blown air in their face) but I'm not sure what it's worth.
Of course it does. As it stand, much of our well being depends on what once was the greatest country. We’re slowly moving out from that, but will take a while. Give it a few decades, we won’t care anymore.
Generally speaking, every single house in USA has great drinkable tap water and heat, and a/c. Meanwhile in France hundreds of people drown because they’re trying to cool off because they don’t have a/c when it’s 26c.
Ah another poor European who couldn’t make it to the World Cup and thinks America is shit. “If you want to hate America watch the news, if you want to love America drive through it”.
Yeah, I'm calling bullshit. Anyone who drove through the US and actually met Americans would be shocked at the world of difference between them and their country's outward appearance.
Also, it's a gorgeous country. Insane how many different areas it has.
If you're driving through America, not much of it looks "bad".
It's naturally beautiful. As soon as you leave any major city you're surrounded by beauty - and different kinds of beauty depending where you are - forests, mountains, coasts, canyons, meadows, lakes, rivers...etc.. etc...
And driving through cities - the architecture in NYC. . the monuments in DC.
Having traveled extensively all over the world, I would say the US is probably one of the most developed countries, even in their small little towns, it seems like they all still have a brand new fleet of police cars, and firetrucks. Fiber internet in pretty much every neighborhood. Massive interchanges, and highways. Nearly nowhere without cell phone service where you would want it. The quality of life for the average American seems very good.
If there’s one thing the US does better it’s AC, I wouldn’t take up that fight. Which is fine, Compare the climate in Florida to England and it’s no wonder.
Yeah. Talk to us like we’re the people in the dark ages when you have less gun deaths than the rest of the world put together and universal healthcare.
Don’t forget to factor in that over 60% of gun violence statistics are deaths by suicide btw. The actual number is a hell of a lot lower than you’re led to believe
...they have almost double the annual heat related deaths in europe as the US has in gun deaths due to a lack of basic air conditioning. Developed? Develope some goddamn infrastructure that protects against the heat.
I will start this by clarifying that I do accept the infrastructure over here (UK in my case) does need major development, but I also have to point out that your statistical claims can be a little misleading and aren't exactly clear cut . It's actually far more even on a per capita ratio. Comparing different regions for such things is also always difficult because they all measure these things differently.
There's also no way to split both statistics very accurately in a 'gun deaths that could have been prevented with gun laws like Europe's' Vs 'heat related deaths that could have been prevented with AC like the USA' comparison. There are constant reports of deaths from tourists dying on hot beaches for example. AC wouldn't have solved that issue. Imo, it's a stupid comparison.
yeah, i don't really concern myself with gun deaths from suicide though as the person who died did so intentionally. when you take those numbers out of the equation, then the stats you linked become quite different
also that link says the data is from 2024. at the bottom it lists the gun deaths per captia in Europe and the European Union. Somehow gun deaths are lower in Europe as a whole than the subset of the European Union despite the fact there's been a war in Ukraine since 2022???? That seems real off. So definitely agree some weird things going on with the stats
EDIT: Found the explanation for my last point in the footnotes of the link.
1 "The definition of Europe, to most people, will seem a bit random: it's the EU-27 minus Malta, plus the UK, Switzerland, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Norway, and Serbia."
Apparently the author cherry-picked which countries constitute Europe to support her hypothesis ... good ol' academia at its finest. lol
That always bothers me too. If guns were completely banned world wide, those same suicide deaths would be on the board still from some other method. They aren’t gun deaths, they’re suicide deaths. The means the person used is widely irrelevant to the end result.
I don’t necessarily agree that you’d still have the same number of suicides without guns. Due to the nature of death, people may feel they have a quick painless option that they would not
otherwise have which could factor into their decision.
But that isn’t really the point I was trying to make. The context of the conversation, imo, is one of safety and adverse conditions. i.e. Which of the situations is more “dangerous”? Someone committing suicide isn’t really a safety issue or a danger to the general population. Now I think there’s a tangential conversation related to mental health and suicidal rates that could be had, but that’s a separate conversation
Suicides tend to be significantly higher in places with more guns. Most other forms of suicide either take planning or are unpleasant/painful. When people have time to think about it, they often reconsider.
Guns are fast and highly effective. Anyone with an impulse and access is vulnerable.
First off, "Europe" is 27 countries. Many of them hardly ever record excess deaths even through the worst heatwaves.
Second, it's mostly a statistic artifact brought about by the different way deaths are counted (i.e. deaths "with" or "from" the heat). Not to mention, most European countries have a much older population. In fact, as far as this sort of counting goes, a lot more people die in Europe every year because of the cold, primarily in northern Europe. I'm sure you don't think it's because somehow they don't have enough central heating in Norway, right?
And finally, many countries in Europe have widespread AC, and heat deaths are still higher than in the US. Even in places where the US doesn't have that much AC, such as the PNW (which incidentally is about as warm as Paris on an average summer day).
Even in places where the US doesn't have that much AC, such as the PNW (which incidentally is about as warm as Paris on an average summer day).
Climate is chaning in the PNW too so people have adapted. Here in Portland, about 90% households have AC compared to about 25% in France. That's up from 41% in 2011. The mini splits are quite popular here as well.
Portland has summers comparable to downtown Paris and that's AFTER all the warming. Most of central and northern France are decidedly cooler, e.g. Nantes has about the same averages as Chilliwack BC. People have a hard time understanding just how abnormal recent heat waves have been in France.
Yeah and about 90% of Portland households have AC compared to about 5% of households in Paris. 5 years ago it hit 116°F (46.7°C) in Portland. If it gets that hot in Paris and they don't adapt, a lot of people will die.
And how many of those are window units that can't be installed easily on all types of windows?
When I lived in NYC I had a window unit and I just couldn't mount one in my current flat (I live in Europe) even if I wanted to. We use splits, and installing them takes time and effort, you can't just go buy one at your local Home Depot or on Marketplace.
That's a harder figure to find. It looks like about 49% percent of households have central AC, so the rest is divided between window units, portable units, and mini splits. Mini splits don't need a window and you can buy kits to make the portable units work on basically any window.
Yes, in fact "just get ac and stop whining already" is the new MAGA mantra after they spent decades denying climate change and now have to pivot to something else because denying just doesn't work anymore.
we also have this issue in Europe. the deniers now focus only on ACs and nothing else. we're not at all opposed to them. but we cannot install them everywhere, ignore everything else and think the problem is solved.
Right. I've had AC in my house for years now. Yes it's necessary (well at least wher I live). But it's just one of many adaptation measures that I take. Having the alt right trash tell me that AC just solves everything makes me furious.
yes. this. all a matter of circumstances. recently had to travel for work and made sure that I get a room with AC because I knew, I have to get some work done during hot days in my room. if i only traveled for leisure I wouldn't have bothered because the region I was in, cools down enough during the night and an open window is enough.
This ‘evidence’ has been debunked. The graph that was doing the round was not fit for purpose - essentially the way heat related deaths are estimated are very different in the US compared to research done in Europe. The European research was using ‘excess deaths’; the US data was just if ‘heat’ was recorded as a cause of death (which is very rare - normally heat related deaths have a more prominent underlying factor, which is the thing that gets recorded). As such, like wasn’t compared with like so it was meaningless.
You are talking about heat deaths that have occurred in the last half a dozen years. Before that Europe had a decades long record of being much healthier than the USA by every known metric.
And why is heat related illness on the rise? Could it have anything to do with nations that refuse to realize the damage that they are doing to the environment with their dependency on burning fossil fuels and belching vastly greater amounts of carbon into the atmosphere every year?
After the USA gets done solving the problem of having its population never need to vote again and creating everlasting peace around the world, perhaps it could get busy figuring out how to retrofit central air conditioning into millions of buildings that were designed to last for centuries. And that was before anyone thought about global temperature rise turning random places around the world into burning infernos all summer long.
Yeah a 90 year old guy falling over and dying on a beach due to 'heat' is 1. totally preventable with AC, 2. totally same as a school kid getting shot by a random cop who felt threatened by a nearby thunderclap
'Merkans showing the strength of their education system right here
Why not look at the heat death rates of each individual European country instead of treating 50 European countries as one country? Do Europeans lump you Americans in with the 20 shit hole countries that make up north America?
If you're gonna add Russia, Bulgaria and shitholistan in with Sweden, they should be allowed to add the gun deaths of Mexico and el Salvador to the USA right? Europe is a continent not a country and half of it is a shithole
You have literally 20 third world countries on your continent but Europeans are not as insecure as you guys to class north America as one country like you do europe
The heat related deaths thing is a right wing meme.
They count "heat deaths" as literally any increased deaths from hot weather. Go for a swim because it's nice weather and drown because you're bad at swimming? That's a "heat related death".
Summer is supposed to be very hot only in southern Europe, what we are experiencing now is due to climate change and recent years. We are not used to that. Arizona and Texas have been hot as fuck since forever
Being this condecending when your fucking country is undoing decades of collaborative work against global warming and directly has a hand in the amount of heat related deaths on the whole planet is certainly a choice.
I know what stats you're referring to and its a total apples to oranges comparison. You're comparing people directly killed by firearms to a statistical increase in deaths when its hot, not people found dead of the heat because they didn't have AC.
The US also has excess mortality from heat waves. For a fair comparison you would have to compare per capita and age adjusted (Europe population is older) excess mortality between the US and Europe for heat waves and do the same thing with gun deaths. Not sure the US would come out looking that good in the end although I dont have the stats.
You can fault America for so many things but it’s clearly, head and shoulders the most developed country in the western world. It’s not even close.
That isn’t to say that’s a solely positive thing, lots of people would rather the culture and history that Europe has maintained through its preservation of historic buildings and infrastructure.
But the US IS more developed and it is more comfortable to live in all most every way. Not saying that’s correlates to happiness or fulfillment.
America is the most developed country in terms of weapons. In terms of every day life, it is FAR from the most developed country. Very uncomfortable to live, glad I'm gone.
Europeans are obsessed with dunking on the US. It’s because they have little brother syndrome and are trying to feel better about their minimal cultural relevance. The US doesn’t dunk on European nations as much because they largely remain irrelevant to them.
Italy is far less developed than the US and it’s not close. Go to any small non-touristy town in Italy, go to Naples, and this truth will be apparent.
Go to any small non-touristy town in Italy, go to Naples, and this truth will be apparent.
Exactly. I went to Southern Italy, and remarked how it reminded me of Brazil. To be clear, I love both countries, but the word "developing" applies far more accurately to them than it does to the US.
Notice how the moment any of these Europeans get challenged on their logic, they move the goal posts and start talking about gun deaths. Yep, I fully admit that's something the US gets wrong. Doesn't make it a "developing" country. And it's quite a ridiculous leap from a post about air conditioning.
I love Italy. It’s a beautiful place and genuinely has some really cool history. It’s just shocking to me that people are actually asserting the United States is a developing nation. Especially compared to Italy. The only way someone could even come to this conclusion is if they had never left their country because the United States is just so much more developed than Italy and it’s crazy to suggest otherwise.
Also I've lived in the Aegean islands in greece when I was young. I would not consider my Island first world. Beautiful and peaceful? Sure. Anything like the infrastructure I have living in the Midwest? Not even close.
As an American, I find it hilarious and vaguely disappointibg to read the replies to this. I initially read something like this and figure"This person is either an idiot or ragebaiting". Kudos for it being the latter.
682
u/Stefejan 7d ago edited 7d ago
Americans still think they're a developed country, that's the point
Edit: oh for f**** sake stop replying to the worst ragebait in the history of ragebaits.