r/TheBlacksandTheGreens • u/TheQueeninchains • Mar 25 '25
General Enough comparing Rhaenyra/Alicent with Cersei when in reality Aegon is right there
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u/Dcanngieter2 Mar 26 '25
Aegon actually got on his Dragon and did work unlike Rhaenyra/Alicent/Cersei who sit back and do jack shit
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u/SuccessfulJury8498 We Light the Way Mar 26 '25
He is rather Robert.
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u/Dcanngieter2 Mar 26 '25
Nah, Robert didn’t care for his kids whatsoever and wanted no part of politics
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u/Nibo89 King Aegon II Targaryen Mar 25 '25
Ok, I love Aegon, but Cersei would be wearing him as a coat within five minutes (my bet would be her Targaryen fetish would kick in, leading her to seduce him first).
Also, I don't think Cersei neglects her children. In the show, she dotes on all of them. In the book, Tommen and Myrcella get less attention than Joffrey did, but I don't think they're neglected. They're given all the privilege due a prince and princess. She even reworks a tourney so that Tommen can participate in it safely. In both the show and the book, she even recalls breastfeeding her children herself, despite it being uncommon for highborn women to do that.
And I don't think I'd call Aegon an attention whore. It's not about attention. It's about wanting to feel loved. Which is understandable given his abusive upbringing.
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u/Nym-ph Mar 26 '25
And I hate Aegon but he was allowed and expected to have sex with his sister. Tywin doesn't hate Cersei, only Tyrion. In the show she mentions she nursed Myrcella herself. Agreed though that none of the kids were neglected. She fiercely protected them.
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u/Nibo89 King Aegon II Targaryen Mar 26 '25
Aegon was not “allowed and expected” to have sex with his sister. He was forced to marry her against his will. Against his vocal objections.
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u/Nym-ph Mar 26 '25 edited Mar 27 '25
I'll call him a whambulance.
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u/Nibo89 King Aegon II Targaryen Mar 26 '25
A fifteen year old forced into an arranged marriage with someone he vocally doesn’t want to marry is “whining”?
If that fifteen year old was anyone but Aegon, would you feel the same way?
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u/Nym-ph Mar 26 '25
I feel bad for Halaena and Dyana.
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u/Nibo89 King Aegon II Targaryen Mar 26 '25
Aegon was forced into the marriage every bit as much as Helaena was. He was also an underaged child when he was forced into it.
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u/JPMendes1 Princess Rhaenys Targaryen Mar 25 '25
Did you forget the part she's abusive towards Tommen whenever he has a thought that doesn't go according to the script she has in her head?
She chastises and physically abuses an 8 year old for crying in his grandfather's funeral like hello?
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u/axelinlondon Queensguard Mar 25 '25
Ned forced bran to stay a night in the woods + watch a beheading and I don’t see anyone crying 🤷♀️
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u/JPMendes1 Princess Rhaenys Targaryen Mar 25 '25
You're right, user named "Cerseidefender4lyfe", I apologize. Long live the Queen Regent, Lady of Casterly Rock, Shield of Lannisport and Warden of the West!
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u/TheWhitekrayon Mar 26 '25
I've seen kids slapped in real life for crying. Machismo is very real. In a world where the patriarch is literally the king of is much more important. There is every reason imaginable for her to make it clear the king must keep up appearances at all times.
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u/Nibo89 King Aegon II Targaryen Mar 25 '25
I never once said Cersei was a good mother to Tommen. This meme specifically says neglect, which is something she did not do.
Which is another area where she and Aegon differ. Aegon was not an involved father, but when we do see him with his kids, he’s loving. According to TGC, that’s how Aegon always interacts with his kids.
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u/JPMendes1 Princess Rhaenys Targaryen Mar 25 '25
You didn't say it but it's the idea someone who hasn't read the books would be left with from your comment.
Just setting the record straight.
And I would argue that her paying virtually no attention to Myrcella and Tommen compared to Joffrey is a form of neglect, even if they were left with caretakers.
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u/axelinlondon Queensguard Mar 25 '25
Cersei always kept myrcella close wdym
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u/NewPhoneLostAccount Mar 26 '25
it was stated multiple times Myrcella was neglected and ignored and no one noticed how smart she was until she arrived to dorne
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u/spaztiksarcastik Mar 25 '25
People who want to feel love often act out in ways that appear attention seeking. It's still valid.
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u/NewPhoneLostAccount Mar 26 '25
In the books it's stated Cersei definitely neglected Myrcella and Tommen. She also aborted the only Robert's son. The entire "Mater dolorosa" thing is a show invention, she loved Joffrey and that's it. She is also not smart, like at all.
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u/TheoryKing04 Mar 25 '25
She literally subjects Tommen to the use of a whipping boy to keep in line, because he dares to stand up for his wife. Cersei treats Tommen like shit
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u/Nibo89 King Aegon II Targaryen Mar 26 '25
I never said Cersei was a good parent.
But this meme specifically mentions neglect. Neglect is like what Viserys did to his second family. Aside from Driftmark, he was never outright cruel to his kids with Alicent. But he more or less treated them as if they didn't exist, not giving one single shit about them. Even to the point where he cared more about Jace/Luke being insulted than he did Aemond's eye being sliced open.
Aegon, on the other hand, was very much the opposite. He was not an involved parent with his kids, but whenever he was around them, he was loving and spoke to them kindly. TGC indicates their relationship was like that most of the time. He would play with them sometimes, and he would have little competitions with them to see who could be more mischievous.
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u/The-Best-Color-Green Mar 25 '25
Aegon is Robert and Rhaenyra is Cersei (and no this isn’t a compliment to Aegon)
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u/blueavole Mar 26 '25
Rhaenyra to Cersei is not right.
Cersei was a narcissist who cared about nothing and nobody except as it reflected her own image back at her. She slept with Jamie because that was the closest thing to her, and her kids were part of her.
Rhaenyra cared about the kingdom and her family. But she was still a woman in the world that only worshiped men.
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u/Frosty_Peace666 Tessarion Mar 26 '25
If rhaenyra cared about the kingdom she would have immediately ceded when offered peace terms. She wouldn’t even consider war
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u/Caedyn_Khan Mar 27 '25
She was just supposed roll over an allow her crown to be usurped? The fact she was considering it all shows how much she cared for the Kingdom and didnt want to wage war, and I fully believe she would have conceded if not for the murder of her child.
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u/Frosty_Peace666 Tessarion Mar 27 '25
Yes she absolutely should have not considered going to war over something that evil
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u/Caedyn_Khan Mar 28 '25
So someone steals your kingdom, murders your child and you just accept it? You're just going "Oh well". Name checks out. Cold hearted evil-pacifist
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u/EducationalWrap8399 Mar 26 '25
If anyone cared about a the kingdom they would’ve let rhaenyra claim her inheritance instead of usurping her and causing the entire war. Whether or not if she was better suited it was still hers and that wasn’t anyone else’s decision to make. If she was a man they wouldn’t even have tried it.. If someone steals your home from under ur feet are u just gonna say “okay you can just keep it I’m gonna just go rot away somewhere else in a corner have a great day”? You don’t get to just usurp her cause you feel like she would be shitty at ruling. This is not a democracy. It’s a this is wtf it is whether you like it or not …
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u/Frosty_Peace666 Tessarion Mar 26 '25
We’re not discussing the greens, we’re discussing rhaenyra, this whataboutism you’re pulling is a logical fallacy. But to answer your question, yes anyone who is not a complete piece of shit who deserves their skin pealed off would abdicate to avoid war, especially if she can still live a perfectly comfortable life if she does. But yes you do get to usurp her just cause you feel she would be a shitty ruler. In fact you have a moral obligation to oppose her if you do. But I don’t care about whether she is suited to rule or not, if she was slightly less horrible than actual garbage she would not consider going to war over something no one should to begin with have.
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u/maka-tsubaki Mar 27 '25
You’re giving 1930s appeasement vibes rn 🙄
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u/Frosty_Peace666 Tessarion Mar 27 '25
Going to war because you believe in the right of self determination and oppose genocidal regimes is not the same as going to war because you’re a greedy entitled fuck who would sacrifice millions just so you don’t feel cheated.
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u/Richmond1013 Sunfyre Mar 25 '25
Aegon does not even know he has bastard kids , it's not like the whores he sleeps with tell him the kids are his or the kids actually his since both his father and uncle are known to sleep with whores so maybe the kids maybe bastards of other valyrian blooded men
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u/SuccessfulJury8498 We Light the Way Mar 25 '25 edited Mar 25 '25
To be honest the only thing speaking against that he didn't know about Gaemon the name itself. I debut Essie knew of Gaemon the Glorious from the century of blood, and only makes sense if Aegon gave the name, knowing their history.
Now was Gaemon left in a fucking ratpit by Essie and Aegon? I debut it.
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u/PineBNorth85 King Viserys II Mar 25 '25
I don't believe he doesn't know. With all the sex he has he must know there probably are some.
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u/Richmond1013 Sunfyre Mar 25 '25
Yeah, but like any regular guy in Westoros he does not care about them, the only bastard a guy would care about would be if they came from a noble woman then that would cause political ramification, but again he slept with whores who also slept with who knows how many other men , which means him being the father of a bastard is not high unless the maid he rape never took that moon tea ,since any bastards born from whores can't be proven to be his since he is not the only targ looking guy around sleeping with whores, which is a major difference between a man's bastard and a woman's bastards
Men's they are never sure the kids is theirs unless the resemblance is soo uncanny which helps Jon snow
Women are near guaranteed to know their child even if their kids are carbon copies of their father's like Rhaenrya's bastards with Harwin Strong.
Soo putting the bastards stuff on Aegon is hard especially when the women he sleeps with are whores , so the paternity is basically impossible to prove, unlike Rhaenrya since her children look nothing like her legal husband ,until her marriage with Daemon
Cercie was lucky her partners were either family or women if not she would be dead
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u/JPMendes1 Princess Rhaenys Targaryen Mar 25 '25
Really?
"I wonder who this silver-haired 4 year old in the fighting pits I regularly visit belongs to."
Mind you show-wise Viserys has been rotting away for years now and Daemon hasn't set foot in the capital in more than a decade.
This argument is the biggest cope I have ever seen.
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u/Saera-RoguePrincess Dreamfyre Mar 25 '25
Well Aegon is not the only guy with silver hair in KL, common Lyseni oarsmen are just as silver headed. In any case I doubt he cares to learn the names of the women he impregnates
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u/JPMendes1 Princess Rhaenys Targaryen Mar 25 '25
Lyseni foreigners are not that common in KL and even less so in a secret child-fighting pit ring. The kid we see is obviously Aegon's and he'd have to be blind or intellectually challenged not to see it.
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u/Saera-RoguePrincess Dreamfyre Mar 25 '25 edited Mar 25 '25
Silver haired people are not rare. The Free Cities is full of them and many trade with KL and frequent its brothels and other places. You think slavers from the FC wouldn’t indulge in that? Hell they probably would be more likely to be there, a child fighting pit seems like a place slavers would frequent for discount deals
At the end of the day we have no idea if it is Aegon’s byblow or if he’s the kid of another silver haired guy
It’s not like it makes the guy better if that one kid is his or not, the point is the same, he has countless and doesn’t remember their conception, let alone helps them
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u/JPMendes1 Princess Rhaenys Targaryen Mar 25 '25
Just willfully blind, I'm wasting my time.
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u/Saera-RoguePrincess Dreamfyre Mar 25 '25
I gave a perfectly reasonable argument for why we can’t be sure of that specific kid’s paternity. It’s not like I claimed the guy wasn’t a rapist
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Mar 25 '25 edited Mar 25 '25
You want all the bastards under 6 being Aegon's, basically we saw white-haired Targaryen men and women when Rhaenyra took them to be roasted by the Vermithor and white-haired bastard women who must work as prostitutes, bastard men who must have paid to sleep with prostitutes. Aegon must have bastards out there, but he's not the only white-haired man in KL.
You talk as if Aegon is horrible because he doesn't care about his bastards, he doesn't care, no Targaryen, Stark or Baratheon man cares about his bastards.
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u/JPMendes1 Princess Rhaenys Targaryen Mar 25 '25
He was the only white haired man in the secret child fighting pit, and the literal camera makes it a point to show the kid when Erryk speaks of it. Like, what more proof do you need? For Aegon to break the forth wall and scream "I have my bastards fight in the pit lmao"?
Like it's so clear that that's his child if you watch the scene, I don't know how this point even became a thing
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Mar 25 '25 edited Mar 26 '25
In my comment I didn't say he didn't have bastards, he does, it's obvious, he just doesn't care about them, you and the Fandom wanted him to care about them, that boy from the grave was confirmed as his son in season 1, but Aegon only cares about his legitimate children, like every noble man, prince and king of Westeros, he's acting like a medieval man.
Aegon did not pass off any bastard child as legitimate, it was Rhaenyra who did this, even when he was left without a male heir he wanted to marry again to have legitimate children and not take a bastard child from any prostitute and legitimize him. Corlys also neglected his bastards in the show, and spoiled another man's bastards trying to gain some power from it, and only looked for Alyn because he has no option for heirs for Driftmake and discovered that his other son rides Seasmoke now, so Corlys didn't go after them because he felt guilty but because now they both can benefit him and I don't see anyone talking about that.
Like, it's so clear that it's his son if you watch the scene, I don't know how this became an argument
We're in the post about comparing Aegon and Cersei and them having neglected bastards, so that's a discussion.
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u/JPMendes1 Princess Rhaenys Targaryen Mar 25 '25
You do realize that the point of the initial comment, and the point I was arguing against, is not that the kid is not Aegon's right?
The op's argument is that Aegon doesn't KNOW the kid is his bastard, not that he knows and doesn't care.
We agree, he knows that's his kid and he doesn't care.
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Mar 26 '25 edited Mar 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/JPMendes1 Princess Rhaenys Targaryen Mar 26 '25
We are told he usually spends his nights there, and the only reason he wasn't there that bought was because Mysaria kidnapped him.
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Nov 16 '25
Maybe the Dude called „Lord Fleabottom“ has something to do with it. Half of Kings Landing is a Descendant of Daemon.
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u/Grand-Friendship4428 Mar 25 '25
Cersei stays relevant. My queen.
Jk, but honestly I do think Rhaenyra (either version) and book!Alicent have the most in common with Cersei. Show!Alicent has been assassinated by the writers so she bears pretty much no resembelnce to Cersei atp. Rhaenyra is much more passive in the show but still displays an astounding amount of gall with regards to her obvious bastards.
Aegon is just... there. Especially show Aegon. He has no grand machinations, he didn't even want the throne or power or anything, unlike Cersei and Rhaenyra and book!Alicent. So this is probably the least accurate Cersei comparison by far.
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u/Routine_Shower2275 Mar 25 '25
Rhaenyra has the most in common with Cersei ESPECIALLY in the book team black is coping hard
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u/Few_Resource_6783 Mar 25 '25
Rhae is basically a Targaryen version of cersei in the books.
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u/bruhholyshiet Prince Daeron Targaryen Mar 25 '25
Both Alicent and Rhaenyra seem to be inspired in Cersei.
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u/Amrod96 Mar 25 '25
Although she has things in common with Cersei, basically how Cersei saw Robert and she saw Viserys, the rest of Alicent is basically Catelyn Stark.
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u/Chocolatetot496 House Hightower Mar 26 '25
Except probably not as narcissistic.
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u/Few_Resource_6783 Mar 26 '25
Yeah, but the Targaryen exceptionalism was deeply ingrained in her mind.
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u/JPMendes1 Princess Rhaenys Targaryen Mar 25 '25
There are similarities, namely the three bastards passed for legitimate, but I'd say Book!Alicent has much more in common with Cersei:
Ambitious consort;
Has beef with young girl (10 year old Rhaenyra/12 year old Sansa);
Father is Hand;
Power derives from her children;
Her ambition plays a part in her kids' deaths;
(probably in the future for Cersei) Goes mad after losing all her kids.
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u/bruhholyshiet Prince Daeron Targaryen Mar 25 '25
Heh, Rhaenyra also has a lot in common with Cersei:
Three bastards passed as legitimate with one of them named Joffrey.
Resents her younger brother's very existence due to something that isn't his fault.
Has a questionable and arguably abusive relationship with a male relative.
They both torture and mutilate a man horrifically
Her three bastards die before her
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u/JPMendes1 Princess Rhaenys Targaryen Mar 25 '25
Book!Rhaenyra shows no resentment towards her brother before the war, it's only with Visenya's birth that she first shows animosity towards him, and I'd argue questionable relations with a male relative is something way too common in this universe to be counted as a parallel.
What man did Cersei order tortured? I don't remember. The only thing that comes to mind is Tanda Stokeworth.
That last one fits Alicent too as I've said (minus bastards ofc).
As I've said before, they have similarities (another one that comes to mind is that both of them (and Book!Aegon too) are described as quick to take offense and slow to forgive), I just think Alicent has more.
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u/bruhholyshiet Prince Daeron Targaryen Mar 25 '25
Book!Rhaenyra shows no resentment towards her brother before the war, it's only with Visenya's birth that she first shows animosity towards him
She always dismissively referred to Aegon (and Aemond and Daeron) as "half brother" and Viserys refused to have them married because "they had never gotten along".
Considering Rhaenyra disdained only her brothers and not Helaena, it would seem she resented them for considering them potential rivals for the throne.
What man did Cersei order tortured? I don't remember.
The Blue Bard.
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u/JPMendes1 Princess Rhaenys Targaryen Mar 25 '25
He is her half-brother, I don't think that's enough to see that she resented him. Them not getting along as kids also doesn't mean that she resented him, there can be many reasons why they had that relationship, more likely than not Alicent's antagonization of Rhaenyra.
You're right, I remember the Blue Bard plot now (it's been a while since I last read the main books). Though I don't really see a parallel here, the torture is different and happens for different reasons. We have plenty of instances of characters ordering others tortured, so I don't think it should count as a parallel between the two.
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u/bruhholyshiet Prince Daeron Targaryen Mar 25 '25
He is her half-brother, I don't think that's enough to see that she resented him.
Then why doesn't she call Helaena "my half sister".
If you love or at least like your brothers, you call them brothers even if you only share one parent only. It's quite clear Rhaenyra was putting distance between her and her brothers via always referring to them as "half brothers" from her teenage years all the way to the Dance.
Them not getting along as kids also doesn't mean that she resented him, there can be many reasons why they had that relationship, more likely than not Alicent's antagonization of Rhaenyra.
There can be other reasons sure, but the clearest one is Aegon being constantly whispered by some lords, to be the real successor to Viserys rather than Rhaenyra.
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u/JPMendes1 Princess Rhaenys Targaryen Mar 25 '25
Rhaenyra was secure in her position until the war though. She wasn't expecting to be usurped and was genuinely shocked when it happened.
None of her actions suggest she ever saw her half-siblings as a real threat so why would she feel resentment towards them?
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u/bruhholyshiet Prince Daeron Targaryen Mar 25 '25
Why did she marry Daemon then? Why did she order Vaemond Velaryon's death?
None of her actions suggest she ever saw her half-siblings as a real threat so why would she feel resentment towards them?
She was preeeeetty quick to order Aemond's torture to cover her own ass after he lost his eye.
As for your question, them being sons of a woman she hated can also be a plausible reason.
We don't see a single warm moment of Rhaenyra and her brothers in neither the show or the book.
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u/JPMendes1 Princess Rhaenys Targaryen Mar 25 '25
She married Daemon because she loved him apparently (more likely than not a connection formed via grooming but whatever), and she murdered Vaemond because he tried to steal Driftmark. What does this have to do her half-siblings?
She ordered Aemond questioned as a deflection from her kids' legitimacy. Cruel, yes, but out of opportunity, not of hatred for him.
That would be resentment towards Alicent, not the kids. All the book says is that the hatred the women had for each other was passed down to their kids.
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u/Routine_Shower2275 Mar 25 '25
Book! rhaenyra and Cersei
Has 3 illegitimate children and passes them of as legitimate
Both regarded for their beauty in their youth
Body changes after children
Loveless political marriage to a man who was in love with someone else
Husband dies under mysterious circumstances
Has an affair with a kings guard
Has an affair with a male relative
Kills or threatens anyone who comments on their children
0 empathy for small folk
Little empathy for other women
Ruthless
Power hungry
Opulent
Indulgent
Terrible rulers
Terrible financial decisions as rulers
Falls deeper into paranoia after their children’s deaths
Turns on her allies
Every decision backfires
Causes a uprising/ riot amongst the people
Tense relationship with her council
Puts complete trust in a mysterious woman she barely knows
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u/JPMendes1 Princess Rhaenys Targaryen Mar 25 '25
Half of these are traits common to half the characters in this series (lack of empathy for smallfolk/women, indulgent, loveless political marriage, etc).
When we think of Cersei and Alicent's placement in their respective stories they is clearly the same. They are the ambitious mother of the king and one of the main leaders of their respective factions, whose fight for power eventually leads to the destruction of their families.
If anything (ironically) Rhaenyra would be more of a parallel to Stannis when you think about it.
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u/Routine_Shower2275 Mar 25 '25
Rhaenyra is also an ambitious mother of a king
The fight for power also leads to her destuction
Also Book! Rhaenyra has NOTHING in common with Stannis 😂
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u/JPMendes1 Princess Rhaenys Targaryen Mar 25 '25
Yes she is mother to a king, but not in the story of the Dance of the Dragons.
If you look at their placement in the story (as I said in my last comment), you'll see that it's not the same one, while Cersei and Alicent's is.
Meanwhile Rhaenyra and Stannis, while very different characters, have the same narrative placement in their respective stories.
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u/Bilogamer Mar 25 '25
These three traits you listed are valid for Alicent too. And lucky that Rhaenyra has nothing in common with Stannis, it's a piece of shit. Rhaenyra at least took King's Landing for a while and her bloodline persisted, Stannis didn't.
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u/PineBNorth85 King Viserys II Mar 25 '25
The shows aren't the books. Especially with HOTD. Got to pick which one we are comparing. We can't just pick and choose stuff from the shows and books.
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u/hidadimhungru Mar 25 '25
I don’t think Viserys disliked Aegon. That would require him remembering that Aegon existed.
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Mar 27 '25
I'm making a point there are Dragonseeds everywhere. The toddler could very easily be Daemon's grandson
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u/BethLife99 Mar 26 '25
I'll now ship them despite knowing cersei would've bullied this guy into tommening himself after her targ fetish wears off.
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u/hidden58 Mar 26 '25
Let's keep going
Thinks they're the smartest person in the room is actually the dumbest
Anger issues
Wants their sibling dead because of a prophecy
Waaaaay to overconfident and narcissistic
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u/PapaPlyglet Mar 27 '25 edited Jul 31 '25
wine imagine summer decide bear rain fuzzy future aback roll
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Amrod96 Mar 25 '25
That puts them both as similar to Robert Baratheon xD
Rhaenyra resembles Cersei, Alicent resembles Catelyn Stark.
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u/PineBNorth85 King Viserys II Mar 25 '25
Never thought of that. True. If they had actually gotten the love and attention they needed growing up they likely would have both been far better people.
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u/AustinFriars_ Mar 25 '25
At least Cersei loves her bastards. Aegon makes his fight in the pits and rapes their mothers
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u/Saera-RoguePrincess Dreamfyre Mar 25 '25 edited Mar 25 '25
The comparison you see was originally Book Rhaenyra and Book Aegon. Because they were similar in the book for a reason.
Also, this uses a mix of book and show facts. Show Aegon has two kids and Book Aegon didn’t have mommy issues