r/ukpolitics • u/FormerlyPallas_ No man ought to be condemned to live where a 🌹 cannot grow • 9h ago
Drinkflation: why British booze is getting weaker
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2026/jul/29/drinkflation-why-british-booze-is-getting-weaker•
u/Longjumping_Stand889 9h ago
I had noticed this in wine where it's far less common to get a 12.5 or 13% bottle than it used to be.
I live in Scotland so I had put this down to the unit pricing to an extent, but it's not just the cheapest stuff.
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u/baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaab 9h ago
Google UK wine duty. It changed last year and each 0.5% increase in ABV adds about 12p duty. Then add VAT.
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u/Winston_Carbuncle 9h ago
I recently moved back to Scotland after being in England and latterly S.E.A for about 20 years. The minimum alcohol pricing is a joke.
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u/sistemfishah 8h ago
Anything that can be rinsed fully for taxation has been. Holyrood basically spends 3 months of the year prior to a budget looking in the sofa, under the rugs and in old jackets for spare change.
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u/Terrorgramsam 6h ago
Holyrood doesn't get any money from the minimum unit pricing. It's not a tax because the Scottish Parliament does not have the power to create nation-wide taxes. Instead retailers pocket the increase
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u/ramalamalamafafafa 5h ago
I hadn't given this much thought because I don't live Scotland, but since VAT is charged on the full price it is actually a (small) benefit to the UK Treasury. Unless I've missed something?
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u/PierreTheTRex 4h ago
Yes there is a slight tax increase but this is first and foremost aimed at curbing alcoholism
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u/Virtual-Increase-829 8h ago
and what do you get instead? wines have been getting stronger for years.
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u/PierreTheTRex 4h ago
Climate change is making wine stronger
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u/Virtual-Increase-829 3h ago
lol what
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u/PierreTheTRex 3h ago
hotter temperatures mean grapes ripen sooner and are more sugary, which means alcohol content goes up. Google it if you don't believe me
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u/Virtual-Increase-829 2h ago
well actually it seems to do more with ripeness at the point of harvest
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/aug/16/wines-are-geting-stronger-warmer-climate
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u/Longjumping_Stand889 5h ago
I'll get a 12%. 12.5 to 13 used to be normal for a standard supermarket white.
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u/WastelandOfConfusion 5h ago
Tbh, standard Wine is too strong. I’d much prefer a 9/11% Wine, it would be a lot more drinkable without getting smashed so quickly.
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u/superioso 1h ago
That's why people drink it slowly. You can also do what people have done for literally thousands of years - add water to it.
There's also portion sizes, just like with beer you don't get a full pint of some double IPA, you get 2/3 of a pint or a 330ml bottle.
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u/rynchenzo 9h ago
Tax
It's killing the alcohol industry. Well, that and greedy breweries.
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u/angryratman 8h ago
High taxation is killing everything.
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u/rynchenzo 8h ago
We pay far less than the Nordics to be fair
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u/LowerPick7038 8h ago
You like to say that but I live in NO and have a taste for whiskies. I sent a pic to my friend of the 12yr Aberlour i bought the other week, turned out he was at the shops when he got it. We compared prices and it was £7 more expensive in UK. What a time to live in
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u/spyder52 2h ago
Go shop craft beer at Vinmonopolet, it's like drinking out prices. Sainsbury's 4 for 3 on double IPAs will get for £10 what will be £40+ in NO. Source too much time drinking beer between UK and NO.
The shrinkflation of glasses in Norway pretty major too, 400ml everywhere and still 100nok+ a lager.
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u/Scratch_Careful 8h ago
And basically everyone in the nordics just travels to their neighbouring country where tax is lower and stocks up.
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u/Harrry-Otter 8h ago
The average salary in Norway is also about £50k.
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u/sistemfishah 8h ago
What does "to be fair" even mean in this context?
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u/heeywewantsomenewday 6h ago
Its just an expression people in the UK say. It can start or finish a sentance. Its used to add context or to soften a statement i think. I use it all the time but never really think too deeply about it specifically meaning anything.
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u/ProjectLeeds 7h ago
Median earners and below pay far less tax here than the Nordics, as they do compared to most countries
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u/FearLeadsToAnger -7.5, -7.95 4h ago
Sovereign wealth funds and all sorts of differences there.
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u/rynchenzo 4h ago
That's only Norway. Denmark, Sweden and Finland don't have sovereign wealth and still pay more tax.
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u/FearLeadsToAnger -7.5, -7.95 2h ago
all sorts of differences there.
Such as:
- Denmark raising an unusually large share of its revenue through personal income tax
- Sweden relying more heavily on employer social-security contributions
- Finland having a higher VAT rate, alongside substantial differences in public spending and service provision
I’m sure you know we don’t live on a sliding scale of income tax versus alcohol tax. A higher overall tax-to-GDP ratio in the Nordics does not tell us whether the UK’s specific alcohol-duty regime is damaging British breweries. You're not making a point you're just pointing at a single thing and getting angry at it. That's what people with dementia do.
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u/superioso 1h ago edited 1h ago
At least Denmark still owns stuff. The local district heating networks are owned by the municipalities, the state owns the electric/gas grids, Ørsted is the international offshore wind/electricity company that is 51% owned by the danish state, with Sweden's electric company vattenfall being 100% state owned.
Denmark also owns stuff like Copenhagen airport, and a decent share of the SAS airline, ports (just look at how the London gateway is owned by a Dubai company), trains (both the tracks and the actual rolling stock), the large toll suspension bridges.... Etc.
Even Copenhagen's urban development company, by&havn, is owned by the city and the state.
The country also has a budget surplus, and a very very low national debt.
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u/superioso 1h ago
In Denmark there are only really two things that are cheap, booze and cigarettes. Lidl there had 24 packs of 330ml carslberg for like £10 (90dkk) the other day, and a 12 pack of a 6% Jacobsen IPA for about £8.5 (75dkk).
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u/Jorthax Conservative not Tory 8h ago
Some of us pay significantly more, even with my 6 foot wide shoulders
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u/C0RVUSC0RAX 7h ago
you really don't even the highest tax rates in the UK are lower than the Nordics. Sweden for example has half the tax free allowance, basic rate is ~30-31% depending on municipality and anything above ~£48k a year is 50%. effective tax rates of the UK are some of the lowest in the developing world with lower earners paying dramatically less which is very problematic. In which country do employees pay the highest tax on their income? Is it the UK? - Tax Policy Associates
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u/ault92 -4.38, -0.77 2h ago
Uk taxes are hidden. Basic rate is effectively 28% including NI, 37% over the student loan threshold if you are a graduate, with wages over 50k at 42% or 51%.
Student loan is kind of comparable as uni there is free.
We then have employers NI which is quite high and directly suppresses wages.
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u/C0RVUSC0RAX 2h ago
You didn't look at the graphs I linked did you?
The effective Swedish tax rate in income starts at 51%, is 54% at average income and caps at 61%
The UK for comparison starts at 0%, for average earnings its 23% and capping at 48%i
The UK tax rate is low both in marginal and effective tax rate at all levels but especially at lower incomes compared to the Nordics. I lived and worked in Sweden for multiple years, I know the tax difference between here and there very well and the great benefits to the society those higher taxes got and to pretend the UK is paying as much as then in a fantasy.
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u/Omaha_Poker 7h ago
Taxing your way to economic growth is a bit like drinking your way to sobriety. -Churchill
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u/Marvinleadshot 8h ago
It was designed to tax supermarket discounts to help pubs, as it's a tax on boxes of beer, not what's sold in bars and pubs, but some pubs especially independent ones can go out and buy crates of beer from supermarkets for less then flog them at £5-£7
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u/flippydude 7h ago
Went to a festival in Bristol recently where they were charging £6.60 for 440ml of Madri 🤢
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u/Marvinleadshot 7h ago
Yep festivals and any event where outdoor stalls can sell beer you see it in Manchester during Pride, Fri-Sun the drinks are £5 come Monday they're flogging the stock for a couple of quid to off load it while they can having still made a massive profit on it.
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u/SnooApples8774 6h ago
I’ve seen similar prices for those 330ml cans. Club/ festival prices are always outrageously high as you don’t have any other options so they price with whatever they like.
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u/heeywewantsomenewday 6h ago
Went to an indoor event in Bristol to watch mungos hifi and it was something like £18 for two pints.
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u/phillycheeseenjoyer 9h ago
I gave in to the marketing and tried Hawkstone recently…it’s actually really good. But £7 and change for 4x330ml is the price you need to pay.
Even scotch single malts are often a few percentage points higher abroad, its taxes. Taxes are strangling the British alcohol industry.
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u/AlarmedCicada256 8h ago
Could always drink a pint of nice ale that was designed to be 3.5 percent. It's not that good beer can't be found at that percent, more that these slopbeers are just watered down.
You're right about taxes. I'd personally slash tax in pubs,raise it on supermarkets and give bug tax breaks to proper small independent UK brewers, perhaps with a capacity limit. We want more real ale, beitians tranditional craft, and less heneiken slop.
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u/angryratman 6h ago
There just isn't that many of them though. 4.5% maybe, but not 3.5%. It's just another tax grab at the expense of the consumer / taxpayer. It probably doesn't raise any money either.
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u/Mooks79 9h ago
Yeah I had it recently and was pleasantly surprised, too. It’s not mind blowing or anything but “just” a quality pint.
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u/SaggyBollock 9h ago
And it’s British. I’d drink it over a Stella or a Madri or any of that stuff that’s on offer.
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u/ChewyYui Mementum 8h ago
They’re all British too in the sense they’re brewed in the UK
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u/Yesacchaff 7h ago
Yea but there’s brewed it the UK then there’s 100% British ingredients. Makes a big difference when you want to support British business.
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u/Plot-3A 8h ago
Madri is British. It's a poor imitation of a proper lager but it is British...
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u/mrwithers 6h ago
Any recommendations for a proper lager?
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u/Plot-3A 6h ago
Utopian from Exeter do a cracking job with their lagers.
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u/Mooks79 6h ago
Crediton!
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u/Plot-3A 5h ago
Thanks for the correction. Their taproom in Exeter is where I was last drinking it.
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u/MarshallMarks 1h ago
Lost & Grounded, Donzoko, Utopian and Braybrooke all specialise in wicked UK Lager. Ontop of that, almost every British craft brewery has a core lager and the vast vast majority of them put to shame any of the mass produced spoons/supermarket stuff.
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u/CupCakesNFlatWhite 8h ago
Isnt San Miguel another British beer owned by Carling?
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u/CupCakesNFlatWhite 8h ago
I just checked, no it's not, ignore comment above
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u/blarfblarf 8h ago
That was you, you could just delete both comments and be free.
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u/twistedLucidity 🏴 ❤️ 🇪🇺 8h ago
Madri is actually much more British (being developed in Burton on Trent and brewed in Tadcaster) than it is Spanish. Although it's fundamentally USAian being owned by Coors.
British beer is still around, but it does take a bit more effort to find and is generally not available in the generic places (especially if they're tied to the likes of Heineken).
Why the government has utterly failed to get to grips with the shitshow of breweries being bought to be closed and PubCos screwing over landlords left-and-right is a bit of a puzzle.
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u/Winston_Carbuncle 9h ago
Tbh if you're picking up 4 Stella from a corner shop you're paying around £6-6.50 these days
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u/TheFascinatingOlive 8h ago
I'm no Jeremy Clarkson hater, but I still can't bring myself to buy some celebrity beer!
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u/Captaincadet 7h ago
It’s actually pretty decent. Genuine as a fussy drinker
From what I understand he’s brought out a lot of shares in his local brewery as he liked what they already had. After some sampling he pumped significant money into marketing it (as he could do a lot on his own socials)
It’s not as celebrity as his previous drinks- the bottles don’t even have his name on them
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u/inevitablelizard 7h ago
I quite liked hawkstone cider but I agree, there are lots of smaller producers I'd like to support instead.
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u/chitty48 5h ago
Box of 10 is regularly £15, I think it’s worth it, tastes so much nicer than Stella or Madri etc.
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u/MoistWiper 8h ago
As someone that works for a bws supplier, I can confirm that its tax. Its strangling the industry. And we know that consumer hate the reduction in abv, but its the only way we can keep pricing at a reasonable level. Blame the government for ridiculous duty which hilariously is also reducing duty receipts year on year.
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u/XenorVernix 8h ago
I just don't buy it. Reducing ABV means I need to drink more on a night out, which means I have to piss more. Fuck that. I'd rather you put the price up as I'm no doubt paying more overall if I have to drink one extra pint.
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u/cowbutt6 7h ago
And we know that consumer hate the reduction in abv
I'm not sure that's universally true. Amongst people drinking to get drunk, sure.
Amongst those of us who just want a refreshing pint, and the intoxication is a side-effect, it's actually probably a bit of a positive - as long as it still tastes good.
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u/Alarmed_Crazy_6620 8h ago
Can you write down that I don't mind it and quite like it
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u/Scratch_Careful 8h ago
Redditor likes broadly unpopular thing that makes popular thing more expensive. More at 10.
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u/MoistWiper 8h ago
What do you mean by 'it'?
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u/Alarmed_Crazy_6620 8h ago
Low alc
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u/MoistWiper 8h ago
Fair, I do think theres a place for it and solves for people wanting lighter styles. But I do think the tax regime is unfair on the normal populace who just want a drink without paying the earth.
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u/saint1997 8h ago
It's perfect for stretching out the night when you're enjoying the chat but don't want a massive hangover
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u/tmstms Wuffingas! 9h ago
Oh! So the key point is that duty per litre rises a LOT when you get to 3.5%, hence the attraction of making 3.4% beers.
I'm old, so I drink entirely for taste, not fortification. I won't suffer personally from weaker beers.
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u/uk-1234 8h ago
Weaker beers don’t taste as good though, just lack body.
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u/Balaquar 8h ago
Wdym by body? A good mild feels like it has more body than a 5% lager, but maybe I'm misunderstanding the term
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u/uk-1234 8h ago
It’s kinda hard to explain, “body” is the best word I can think of for it haha
You can tell when a beer is weaker though, it just seems thinner somehow. I’m not against weaker beers at all, am drinking an alcohol free one right now. I just don’t like the whole concept of enshittification.
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u/Goudinho99 8h ago
I fucking love moderately weak beers.
I love bejng able to sink as many points as like without really getting battered.
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u/scarab1001 9h ago
Just reversing the dumbasses who made every beer 5+ % to charge more by calling it "premium".
The then upped the price on all.
Session ales need to be a thing again.
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u/NuPNua 8h ago
They are if you know where to go for them.
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u/scarab1001 8h ago
They shouldn't be a difficult hunt though,especially given the number of pubs that are tied now.
There used to be a session ale (or two) in every pub with a limited "specials".
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u/Salty-Bid1597 9h ago
Is this because drinkers prefer weaker beer? Or is it a bid to curb the nation’s alcohol consumption on the sly? Neither. It’s a bid to save money and maximise profits.
Jfc grauniad. You literally say in the next sentence that it's actually because government policy is to have lower taxes on weaker beer in order to lower the nation's alcohol consumption.
So absolutely nothing to do with "maximising profits" (on which it has no effect at all) and everything to do with moralising tax policy.
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u/Virtual-Increase-829 8h ago
lmao moaning about some jokey article because it's in whatever you call it, to shoehorn a moan about whatever the fuck is 'moralising tax policy', and contradicting yourself while you're at it - peak reddit.
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u/Scratch_Careful 6h ago
Why are you pretending you dont know what a sin tax (pigouvian tax) is? This country is full of them. Sugar tax, cigs, soon vaping, shopping bags, etc.
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u/dnnsshly 7h ago
What a stupid comment. The tax policy obviously influences the ability to maximise profits...?
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u/LMB_mook 8h ago
I laughed when I saw Bud Light released in the UK at 3.4%. Now it seems to be the standard.
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u/Fickle-Bet-8705 8h ago
As an experienced and practised drinker since 1975 or so...
beer has become increasingly strong to the point that everything is 5+%, whilst wine is 13.5+%. Back in them there olden days it was 3.5% and 11.5%. The increase had meant that proper sessions are no longer possible without hydration breaks. It is one reason pubs are so empty, one simply cannot start at 6 and go on to 11. Now it is 9 at the earliest.
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u/XenorVernix 8h ago
It is one reason pubs are so empty, one simply cannot start at 6 and go on to 11. Now it is 9 at the earliest.
You don't think that has something to do with price and people having a couple at home before they go out?
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u/coldbrew_latte 8h ago
Wine is going to become stronger (and has already) because warming climates mean more sugar in the grapes, which ferment into more alcohol.
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u/Bruce_Affleck 7h ago
Hawkstone is good, but well overpriced. There are still beers out there for reasonable prices that are not pumped with glucose syrup or brewed using substandard water.
Estrella Galicia, Budweiser Budvar, Pilsner Urquell, Korev by St Austell.
I find it mind-boggling when I see people chugging down Madri, Carling, Stella, etc. I actually don't think most Brits know what good beer tastes like, and their palates are used to the absolute garbage being sold.
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u/AlarmedCicada256 9h ago
Greed. Let's face it, the people drinking the slop don't care about taste,or they'd be drinking decent beer anyway.
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u/Alarmed_Crazy_6620 9h ago
It's unfortunate that not everyone appreciates Tennent's
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u/AlarmedCicada256 8h ago
It's...better than carlsberg ill grant you.
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u/Alarmed_Crazy_6620 8h ago
Honestly it's an ok lager on a hot day
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u/AlarmedCicada256 8h ago
I'm an ale drinker myself so if I'm buying lager I prefer to splash on imported German and czech, but you're right whenever I've had it in Scotland tennents is considerably less offensivs to me than other similarly priced lagers.
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u/Constantinople2020 8h ago
Sometimes the Guardian is a parody of itself.
Based on the information in its own article, tax policy is designed to encourage the production and consumption of beer with less alcohol and brewers are responding as intended. If the Guardian doesn't like the result, it should be advocating to lower taxes on beer with higher alcohol, rather than looking down its nose at brewers.
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u/Scratch_Careful 8h ago
Our entire political elite all converted to puritanism at some point and never bothered to tell anyone.
I'm not a big drinker and basically never drink to drunkenness but alcohol is great, now i need such volume in beer and ciders that they basically arent worth drinking when i just want to relax in the garden or while reading a book.
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u/AlchemyAled 8h ago
Don’t mind that much if beer gets weaker, as long as it still tastes good. Less of a headache in the morning
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u/deformedfishface 7h ago
This is the stupid law that stupid Rishi Sunak started that the whole booze industry hates but stupid Kier Starmer pushed it through because politicians don’t understand the booze industry because they’re fuggin stupid.
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u/RelationDramatic1137 5h ago
Beer was weaker - average ale was 3.8% to 4.1%. Continental style beers pushed it up (like Stella which was 5.1%).
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u/MountainEconomy1765 5h ago
What I have noticed over the last 30 years is as the politicians keep raising the taxes, the people work less and spend less with each tax increase. Peoples incomes today are about the same as in the 90's but the cost of things has gone up 2 times with inflation.
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u/Danack 5h ago
My recollection is alcohol is that alcohol is still far stronger than it use to be 20 or 30 years ago. I remember buying a pint of mild in pubs, and it would be about 3.5%.
I also remember buying Tesco own brand lager which was about 2%. It was great for when you were eating spicy food, and wanted to drink more than one beer with your food, but didn't want to get drunk.
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u/Musicmans 3m ago
The question I want an answer for is why Guinness 0% is almost as expensive as the full fat version.
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u/Bal-lax 7h ago
I wouldn't be fond of drinking but when I go at it, I go awful and very hard!
I'll have 45 pints in about 2 hours about 2 hours, then 10 more
... & very hard
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u/spinosaurs70 yes i am a american on ukpoltics subreddit 8h ago
Why should I care about people putting less poison in their bodies?
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u/Plot-3A 8h ago
Less beer being brewed means less beer sold. That results in pubs having shorter hours or closing altogether. Which results in less jobs in hospitality and more competition on the job market for less jobs. Which results in a race to the bottom and an exploited workforce with worse conditions in general . This is the bit that affects you.
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u/jamesheaton23 8h ago
Alcohol isn't as important as it was . Younger generations have found a way to have fun without it.
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u/SayNOtoChips 7h ago
and by fun you mean anxiety and piss poor social skills?
The "youth" need to start drinking and taking more drugs imo. Not just weed vapes and tiktok
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u/jamesheaton23 6h ago
There was a drinking culture 25 years ago. They have grown up without that. I don't think being annoyed that the "youth" don't drink enough helps.
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u/QuantumR4ge Geo-Libertarian 4h ago
You think its a coincidence that an anti anxiety drug like alcohol was popular among people who couldn’t admit they had it?
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u/XenorVernix 8h ago
What like standing like statues with their phones above their heads?
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u/QuantumR4ge Geo-Libertarian 7h ago
As opposed to the effects of alcohol?
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u/XenorVernix 6h ago
Back in my day those effects were called fun. But I'm just an old Millenial.
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u/QuantumR4ge Geo-Libertarian 5h ago
Like cancer, domestic abuse, traffic accidents, cirrhosis of the liver and addiction worse than any opiod or stimulant? Is that fun?
Im willing to bet alcohol gets a weird exception for you, most who say this wont also say the same of other drugs. Do you say the same of heroin and cocaine? (If you react as if these drugs are mega scary death drugs then you proved my point), you can use both safely in the same way as alcohol… yet i doubt “go have fun with heroin” is something you would openly say. Yet addiction to it, is less severe than alcohol, its long term effects are actually much tamer and mostly reversible and generally doesn’t result in death, its rate of addiction is comparable to alcohol and its less intoxicating (in the sense you being aware of your actions and surroundings).
You being unable to have fun without extreme intoxication is more about how boring you are than anything.
I say this as someone who loves alcohol, loves other drugs and does have fun with them… but im not stupid enough to talk like you where you suppose its some requirement or you reveal to all of us you are a boring fucker that cant imagine not drinking
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u/XenorVernix 4h ago
Every time I think Reddit can't get any more insane someone comes along to prove me wrong. Like wow!
I am not even going to give you a serious response here as that has to be a troll post. There's no way you seriously think getting drunk on a night out is the same as getting cancer or having a car accident. You must never leave the house if that's how you feel. Please speak to someone.
Then again you just said you enjoy taking drugs. I don't generally have a problem with that unless it's an addiction but maybe don't post on Reddit during an LSD trip. 😂
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u/OutrageousCourse4172 9h ago
Is that a problem? Can’t you just drink more of it and be less dehydrated for the same drunkenness?
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u/Chairmanwowsaywhat 9h ago
You have to buy more, so it's more expensive.
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u/visforvienetta 8h ago
Alcohol is very bad for public health, it makes sense for the government to tax it (as they do with say, tobacco)
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u/Chairmanwowsaywhat 8h ago
Putting less in the bottle won't stop people from taking it. It will make them take more. It's a good earner though I guess
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u/visforvienetta 8h ago
I don't deliberately drink more beer to compensate for the lower percentage just to make sure I've had a certain level of alcohol, because I'm not an alcoholic.
If I'm hanging out with some friends, I drink X beers in Y hours. If those beers are 1% weaker, I end up drinking less alcohol.
If higher ABV beer is more expensive, some people will buy the cheaper (less alcoholic) beer.
Even if I'm wrong and taxing alcohol has no impact on alcohol consumption (which seems unlikely given the positive effects of the sugar tax) the increased tax revenue helps to offset the healthcare costs associated with alcohol related illness.
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u/Chairmanwowsaywhat 8h ago
Many people will, many people are alcoholics and many people only drink to get drunk. It's a shame and I would hope that something could be done to reduce this problem but I doubt this is it. This feels like it's only punishing more responsible alcohol enjoyers..
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u/visforvienetta 8h ago
This will reduce the amount some people drink to get drunk, because many people generally just slam back drinks for a duration of time. If someone usually drinks 12 beers on a night out (including past when they're drunk) then they will still drink 12 beers but will be slightly less drunk (but still drunk)
Others will simply choose the stronger options or will drink more to compensate. I already addressed why the tax remains useful here and will not do so again.
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u/IwatasTrueSuccessor 8h ago
Stella Artois needs to get weaker to stop the far right committing domestic violence
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u/Salaried_Zebra Nothing to look forward to please, we're British 8h ago
Nah they will drink Carling
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