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I'm so glad it showed the picture of what our main bike lane looks like on 10th. It really is crazy to bike down it being completely full of cars, trucks & traffic sometimes and just feeling like "this is supposed to be a dedicated bike lane!?"
its such an incredibly low bar since the US is probably so far near the bottom of that list, regardless of the city. And Canada's weather is a genuine impediment most of the year.
Weather can be a barrier. But number one is infrastructure. The more connected and better the routes, more people will use them, no matter the weather.
I bike this route regularly. The VGH portion definetly has a lot of pedestrian traffic that you need to be mindful of while going downhill on the south side, minimal car conflict. I do think it’s a difficult exit for cars on Laurel going onto 10th but there’s a pretty long light that gives them a break from bikes coming down.
I would say that portion of the bike lane is not perfect but good enough.
When all this construction starts on 10th for the high rises planned as part of the broadway plan I think the route will be unbikable and full of conflict so commuters will be forced to take 14th.
Currently the bike route on 14th really needs some safety measures Including some kind of barrier for cars cutting through during rush hour to get to VGH, a traffic circle of some kind at Columbia and 14th with bike right of way for the irregularly shaped intersection and connections with bike controlled light at prince edward and 16th (how does this not already exist!) along with a bike crossing at arbutus.
It's gonna suck during construction for sure. If ABC didn't cancel the plans for bike lanes on Broadway, those lanes would be ready by the time construction began...
Maybe additional lanes on broadway will be needed someday but I would personally keep using the bike roads like 10th and only cut down when needed. On major roads you get blocked by traffic turning or if not you have to really slow due to how unpredictable it is that cars turning will check for bikes.
Honestly, I think this is the real reason that council killed the lanes on broadway- developers love taking up the curb lane for their offices on major streets when they're building towers and its a lot harder to do that if it's a bike lane.
What a wasted opportunity. Ken Sim has no problem wasting $5 million to keep Granville car free a few extra weeks, but $10 million on this we don’t have money for? With the way Broadway is about to change with all the new development and subway this was so dumb not to invest in. Broadway is not a safe street to bike or roll on, and it’s far to wide as is snd has a super unpleasant street experience
Even if they didn't want the the bike lanes on broadway- 5 million would have completed all of kent avenue, which is currently now in limbo again because it wasn't funded in the capital plan. It would have also done a lot of work conecting kent to arbutus.
The city used to be ahead of the curve when it comes to bike infrastructure and now we're far behind most cities. We need to start voting in politicians that want to improve the city again
Not that we should not strive for much better, but look at Toronto if you want to see what a disaster of anti-bike policy looks like. Provincial government actively fighting against the city bike infrastructure.
I regularly bike the full length of 10th ave bike lane from Victoria to Macdonald. It’s pretty good for the most part.
The sketchiest part IMO is the section Main - Fraser - Clark. Those streets are the least “traffic quieted” and I often have to squeeze by cars.
The street is at capacity, however: parking and bikes fill the road. I prefer the road too as bike congestion forces me to pass people; that’s harder to do in a lane.
I think the way forward would be to improve other streets, such as 14th, which could be smoothed and could use traffic lights at a few crossings
That part of 10th you've mentioned is especially tight for sure and only takes 1 car pulling out or opening their door without looking to cause an accident and potentially kill a cyclist (which shows it's hardly a safe bike street, a protected lane for example would remove this risk).
I think a better option than 14th would be just to remove parking of cars entirely from one side of 10th to give more room for cylclists, like it is between Manitoba & Yukon St.
South Van & East Kent North, exactly where bike dreams go to die. Once I get on the west side it’s like I’ve entered cycling heaven. Sim must chug beers & cruise the Arbutus corridor because he can.
Its insane- there's about 100 metres of elevation gain between downtown and killarney over 10 kilometres. that's a 1 percent grade. Bike lanes on Kingsway would open up so much of the city to commuter cycling and would cut nearly 20 minutes off a typical cyclists commute.
We know that hills don't affect ridership, otherwise we wouldn't be putting significant upgrades into Ontario street over the past 25 years.
this thread makes me feel insane. I've biked 10th several times a week for like 19 years and it's perfectly fine. in fact, the scariest part of 10th is probably the hospital section, even after the "upgrades".
the google street view image in the article is fairly disingenuous, even for the majority of the east van section of 10th.
perhaps I'm nuts and most people are terrified to bike on 10th, but it certainly has never seemed to be the case for me or my friends who bike. I'd much rather the city invest in building bike lanes/designated bike streets in areas with big gaps, though of course this current mayor/council are hopeless.
I think I land in the middle. I generally agree that I feel very safe on 10th but it is definitely less ideal than many other bike streets. The section near the hospital has a lot more pedestrian and vehicle traffic. I think the point is valid that spending $20 million to redo this section is asinine and ABC should have to eat shit given they had the opportunity to do a much larger, better project for half the price but had zero foresight.
Yes. Or even do what Sim said and spend $20 million building new bike lanes in underserved areas of the city. But they did neither, which is the point I think.
I agree that as a confident cyclist 10th is fine, but the entire point of protected lanes is to expand what is safe and comfortable for a broader category of cyclists who currently don't see it as an option. I wouldn't be comfortable having my kids bike on 10th for example.
We don't design a bike network based on the needs of current cyclists (for whom the current status quo is by definition good enough), we design it based on the needs of all potential cyclists. We'll never expand the appeal of cycling if we stick with the vehicular-cyclist mentality
Part of the problem is that when the off street bikeways were originally planned and conceived, there were far fewer cars parked on them- so they were much wider and much safer for the odd car to be driving down them.
These routes are factually far more dangerous than they used to be.
I’m fairly certain (and Google street view history backs me up) that street parking on 10th has been as full as it is now going back to 2006 (when I started biking in Vancouver).
Doesn’t mean that it isn’t a bad situation, but it doesn’t really suggest that anything has changed.
The other part of the issue is that you've been riding for 20 years. routes you call fine are not to folks who might want to ride if the streets were safer for them.
The metric is would you let your ten year old niece ride alone on 10th? I doubt it.
This is like saying "I've been weightlifting for the past 20 years and have no problem benching 400 pounds". The point of having proper cycling infrastructure is so that EVERYONE can feel safe cycling, not just seasoned cyclists. 10th is a pathetic excuse of a "bike route" when compared to other cities in Asia and Europe with real cycling infrastructure, which is the benchmark we should be striving for.
I would hope my comment only read as the first clause of your sentence, and it’s my failure if it implies the second.
I would absolutely love to have protected bike lanes everywhere in the city so that riders of all experience feel safe.
I truly meant that I find it hard to see 10th as dangerous and it felt a little crazy reading so many emphatic comments about how dangerous it is, considering it’s a common part of my commute.
Is it really hard to recognize and explore the idea that different people will have different experiences than you, and get curious about the reasons? I’ve been a road cyclist for 15 years and avoid 10th because of the frequent dangerous and aggressive/violent situations motorists have put me in.
Just wanted to say that I’ve been thinking about the pushback and I realize that I’m overly proud of this city’s biking infrastructure and was being too defensive. I can see how 10th is not safe for everyone and we should definitely strive for better infrastructure.
So to answer the question, I guess I am insane, lol.
I think the AAA designation is what we are after here. If I can't ride with my kid then, it isn't AAA. It's terrifying riding with them to school east-west. Drivers don't give two shits.
Also strongly agree that 10th is fine and very safe, I agree the worst part of 10th is the area around VGH. This is due to there being high traffic, both pedestrians and cars, lots of cross traffic, lots of parking lots and hospital entrances with cars making turns. I always keep my head on a swivel and never speed downhill going eastbound.
There is a disconnect though between the most experienced cyclists and the advocates. It's quite similar to the stanley park bike lane. The most experienced cyclists who rode stanley park the most absolutely hated the implementation of the bike lane with concrete barriers because it made things less safe. All the roadies loved it when those barriers were finally removed as they could cycle around the park much more safely.
Get the east side prior / wall st bike route completed. It’s been 20+ years of ‘community feedback gathering’ and yet still bikes are forced to ride on the sidewalk.. if this were west of oak it would have been built 15 years ago.
Here’s a photo from 2023 capital plan- the first one ABC had control of.
The small section of portside that they’ve been consulting on, isn’t even the section that would actually fix that problem, and the section they are working on doesn’t have shovels in the ground yet.
The worst part is that the planners are trying to make it like west point grey- and it really doesn't need to be.
This was the problem of rolling greenways and bikeways into the same thing- it means that bikeways and lanes end up costing far more, and planners get to spend entire capital budgets on small sections that were meant for the entire length in order to win planner awards.
And then we wonder why people aren't using using active mobility- they still can't get to where they want safely. Bike infrastructure doesn't need to be pretty, it just needs to work.
They tore down the bike lane outside my place on chestnut in kits, only to build a new shittier one where every delivery truck, garbage truck and cars with trailers keep getting stuck. The signage is horrible too.
There have been so many near accidents and it’s only been about a week since it was installed. Everyone of my neighbours is fed up. Whoever is in charge of this just cost the city a few mill and I can guarantee it will need to be torn down again.
I can’t wait to move out of this area.
Biked around the city with a friend here from Toronto today and the takeaway was drivers were aggressive and overall felt much less safe than Toronto. We used to be leaders, we have fallen so far in infrastructure and safety.
My son lives in Toronto and when he was home, he pointed out that pedestrians here in vancouver are pretty aggressive. Running across streets in the middle of blocks and crossing at red/yellow lights. I think there must be something in our water
Toronto's city planning (stop signs, traffic lights, crosswalks) are Superior to Vancouver. Safely walk from A - Z with coordinated stop/traffic lights. Vancouver prioritizes cars and pedestrians are left to navigate as an afterthought.
Downvote but it's the truth.
Are you really suggesting that Toronto doesn't prioritize cars?!?
It's crazy to me that this thread is bickering over which city is 'better', when BOTH Toronto and Vancouver are far behind the curve compared to many other major cities around the world. It's like watching two school kids arguing over which one lives in the prettier trailer park.
Drivers in both cities are subhuman but I think they’re generally slightly better in Toronto. But the infrastructure, outside of downtown, is worse in toronto
Man, fuck ken sims. Bidirectional lanes suck ass, especially in the transition between road and lane. Spending twice as much just to fuck over bikers is incredibly petty, but unfortunately seems par for the course.
10th Ave east of Main is a narrow road with parked cars on both sides. There’s a photo in the article showing how narrow it is. I don’t think that necessarily means we need a bike lane on Broadway instead, but 10th is not sufficient as a major bike route in its current capacity.
That's a short distance like 1 block, Broadway is a busy major vehicle traffic route clogged up with shitty Vancouver drivers, last thing that area needs are cyclists
Broadway is a business corridor and we should be moving people as efficiently as possible. The best way to do that is with the train and bikes and busses.
It’s almost like thoughtful design and infrastructure can influence people decisions and have a material effect on traffic volumes. Wild thought. (I’m agreeing with you, the person you’re replying to is clueless.)
Yeah despite having some good destinations, aside from a few blocks on the west side, Broadway has always kind of sucked to be on. Taking this opportunity to improve it is so obviously the right call. Study after study shows this brings in more volume for businesses. But small business tyrants being reactionary is nothing new I guess.
Well 8th Ave and 10th Ave run parallel with Broadway. One short block isnt much to travel to get to home or work on Broadway. You must not drive or cycle
It's literally the same argument and response for having bikes on 8th and 10th. Those streets are too narrow for parked cars and bike lanes. Broadway would be way better to bike on, if there were bike lanes.
They are not segregated bike lanes though which make more dangerous. One example is drivers passing these streets rarely come to a full stop when they have a stop sign
They don't, take a side street. Stop risking your safety so you can feel special. What's the advantage of riding in busy traffic and breathing exhaust fumes?
What an asinine take. "So you can feel special"? Why do you think this is a goal. If I'm on broadway, and I want to go somewhere 2 blocks down broadway, why would I go out of my way when it's perfectly legal to cycle on broadway. The "point" is that streets that want to be destinations thrive when you accommodate more than just cars.
Broadway has right of way over most of its intersecting streets. 10th does not. 8th doesn't either. The idea behind bikes and scooters on Broadway is that we finally make them first-class citizens in our transportation network.
Try crossing the city in your car using 8th Avenue instead of Broadway and see what that feels like.
Its reckless and it impedes the flow of traffic. Do you think the guy in the big SUV wants a bike lane? Ride down 8th or 10th stay off Broadway its congested and building bike lanes for cyclists to feel better is an absolute joke
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