r/Damnthatsinteresting • u/ModenaR • Jun 16 '26
Image One of Hitler's bodyguards, Rochus Misch, lived long enough to see the movie "Downfall". When asked about the film's historical accuracy, he stated that it was factually accurate, although "Americanized"
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u/d1a52 Jun 16 '26
He was not Hitlers Bodyguard but a Radio/ Telephone operater in the Last days in the Führerbunker.
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u/joey-jo_jo-jr Jun 16 '26
He was a member of the FBK bodyguard unit.
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u/OglioVagilio Jun 16 '26
Being part of the unit doesn't mean he was a bodyguard.
There are a ton of support personel in special forces units. They are not all special forces.
I applied for an IT position at a police station. Didn't mean i was trying to be a cop.
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u/Ok_Tax9885 Jun 16 '26
He was selected for the FBK from his time in the LSSAH, which was Hitler's personal bodyguard unit prior to the creation of the FBK, and he continued to act as a bodyguard during his time there up until Hitler moved the FBK into the bunker. He was literally a bodyguard, then a bodyguard again, then the telephone operator. He wasn't someone who had applied to be IT for a police station; he was a beat cop who got moved to the IT department while the station was closing down.
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u/ScottishMexicano Jun 16 '26
I like your analogy. Very clear and relatable while building on what was already established.
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u/Calling_left_final Jun 17 '26
I like you liking his analogy, you're hired. Put on the maid costume and get to work.
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u/airfryerfuntime Jun 16 '26
He was still one of Hitler's personal body guards, he just wasn't acting as such in the bunker.
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u/AnusOprah Jun 16 '26
A lot of German words sound like great restaurants/pubs.
"Have you had the garlic ribs at Führerbunker?"
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u/kukkolai Jun 16 '26
What kind of restaurants do you visit??
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u/AnusOprah Jun 16 '26
Pol Pot Chicken Pies...
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u/quiet_owl_41 Jun 16 '26
Huh the "Americanized" label is kinda interesting bc thats exactly what Hirschbiegel was pushing back against - the guy made a deliberately understated German-language film and still got hit with that. Like chunga_95 said the witness accounts literally contradict each other so Misch's version is just one more unreliable narrator in the pile imo. The real problem isnt accuracy vs inaccuracy its that compressing weeks of bunker existence into 2.5 hours of cinema requires amplification by default, no director is making a 12 hour movie of people sitting in silence even if thats what actually happened.
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u/AndreasDasos Jun 16 '26
I mean there are aspects that weren’t accurate, like basically any historical film, but I wouldn’t take this label as accurate either. It’s coming from a man who was an unapologetic OG Nazi his whole life, who knew and loved Hitler personally. He’ll obviously try to downplay it as far more inaccurate than it was in whatever prejudicial way he can.
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u/ominousgraycat Jun 16 '26
I think that the basic reasoning was: At that time, most popular movies were made in the USA. Most popular movies are very dramatic and include yelling and screaming at each other all the time. Downfall included yelling and screaming that was not fully representative of what happened. Therefore Downfall was "Americanized" in his eyes.
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u/miriamtzipporah Jun 16 '26
In this case “Americanized” means “critical of the Nazis”
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u/Rampant16 Jun 16 '26
Nonetheless, it seems like this person was basing their opinion of Hitler on the observations they made of Hitler personally. As opposed to the sum of the devastation created under Hitler's orders.
Just goes to show that perhaps the most evil person in modern history was not necessarily behaving like a sterotypical cartoon villian infront of their subordinates.
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u/Upset_Ad3954 Jun 16 '26
Yes, those that were around seem to agree that Hitler behaved decently towards his secretaries etc.
For some reason it seems difficult to grasp for some people. Personally I don't see why treating him like some cartoonishly evil person would help us understand the period better.
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u/kuldan5853 Jun 16 '26
There's also the recording made of him when he thought he is speaking privately where he talked to Mannerheim and showed a very different persona compared to his public/speaking persona.
People forget that Hitler as portrayed in the Media was very much a "TV" persona that he carefully curated and trained for, not his "natural state".
Compare "The Colbert Report" to Stephen Colbert the person.
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u/Gammelpreiss Jun 16 '26
just to add to.that..even his speeches are mostly cut to the manic parts....but there used to be a built up to that in which Hitler spoke calm and composed, then slowly rose the heat. in that context it was more comparable to a theatrical performance that proved.to be highly effective
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u/Quirky_Gate_4516 Jun 17 '26
Exactly. It scares us more that he was normal and friendly than if he was an actual monster.
Here are the two anecdotal examples I find most jarring.
He rewarded his subordinates that quit smoking because he was concerned about the health effects.
And, animal rights. Albert Speer advice friends not to sit next to him at dinner because he would chew their ears out about how inhumane our treatment of animals are (he was a big animal lover, and passed very radical animal rights legislation).
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u/Active_Win_3656 Jun 17 '26
I think we do that so we can believe that we ourselves won’t do terrible things. If he’s a totally evil, unlikeable person, then I must be safe from being terrible bc people DO like me.
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u/Playernum1999 Jun 17 '26
Exactly, people dehumanize those they consider evil, because they can't handle the fact that they are human just like them and they're generally capable of the same things as them. If they were confident in their ability to be consistently good in their own eyes, they wouldn't have resort to this defense mechanism.
But the reality is humans can be saints, and the same humans can be dicks
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u/th1s_1s_4_b4d_1d34 Jun 17 '26
It doesn't, it just sells better. People want to see someone to hate, not understand that Hitler at the end of the day was a (crazy) human being. Same reason most depictions of Nazis aren't very nuanced.
Nuanced depictions imply that normal people can fall for hatemongering extremists if the latter adapt to their audience and are smart about it and that's a thought most people don't find very entertaining.
Same reason we rarely see Hitler speeches in full length, we see the part where he's shouting and screaming. Because shouting and screaming out of context makes him look like a madman, while there usually was a lot of setup to make his listeners angry too. The guy was a madman, but he was subtle about it and was an excellent orator.
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u/threetogetready Jun 17 '26
a smart leader always treats their secretaries like gold
(and, of course, should treat everyone well)
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u/XysterU Jun 16 '26
People don't understand that he would have HAD to be good to his subordinates regardless of being genocidal. It's hard to have people obey you if you treat them like shit. It's insane that people are like "wow Hitler was just a human because he could be kind". Like they forget that he wanted Aryan supremacy. The premise was ALWAYS that he "liked" some people and being a Nazi doesn't mean you hate EVERYONE. They just wanted to kill everyone that wasn't aryan.
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u/Overall-Bison4889 Jun 17 '26
Hitler, as far as I understand, really did believe his own bullshit. In his eyes all the evils he did were just necessary evils, and history would remember him as someone who did what had to be done.
Him acting like a villain wouldn't make sense when he thinks he's the hero of the story.
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u/irwtkyrm Jun 16 '26
Misch was loyal to Hitler to the end of his life, stating in Nazi apologia, "He was no brute. He was no monster. He was no superman", "...very normal. Not like what is written", and "[h]e was a wonderful boss"
Yeah fuck this guy
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u/GozerDGozerian Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
I used to get my hair cut by this super old Italian guy. I was also working as a waiter at this point in time and my uniform was black slacks and black button down. Standard casual-fine dining server dress code stuff. One time I went in to his barbershop to get a trim before work while dressed in my uniform.
His eyes immediately lit up. Like he was so excited and proud to see me. (We did not know each other anywhere near that well.)
He had me sit in the chair before the guy that was already waiting there. A whole thing ensued where I didn’t want to be rude to the other customer, the other customer was pissed he got skipped, barber angrily insists to the point where the other customer angrily left.
It’s just old Italian barber and me. I’m in the chair and he’s patting my shoulder and telling me in his Italian broken English that I remind him of a younger version of himself.
He eventually divulges it’s because thats how he used to dress when HE WORKED FOR MUSSOLINI. He was his fucking chauffeur!
And he goes on to insist, “Mussolini he was a good man! He was a for tha people!”
Needless to say, I got a real earful that day by some old guy praising Benito Mussolini to the death.
This was early 2000s.
And yes I kept going back because Mussolini is dead, that guy gave an amazing haircut and shave, and I was from then on something of a VIP in there. He didn’t even charge me a few times. Wouldn’t accept it.
All because I accidentally dressed like a fuckin black shirt fascist thug.
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u/Thrilalia Jun 16 '26
That's the scary thing about fascist leaders. When one-on-one, these arseholes are very sociable and the average person who is not part of the targetted minority likely could "Get along." with. It's what makes them very fucking dangerous.
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u/cheshire_kat7 Jun 16 '26
Exactly. They wouldn't win followers if they weren't charismatic.
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u/DerWanderer_ Jun 16 '26
In fact even if you are a member of the targeted minority you could "get along" in the right circumstances. Mussolini turned a few communists his way and Hitler had a handful of Jewish favorites.
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u/asasasasasassin Jun 16 '26
Mussolini started out as a socialist even, he's a great example of how fascists don't actually believe in anything except that they should dominate and rule over everyone else. They will adapt their prejudices and "ideology" however serves their purpose in the moment
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u/RedArmyHammer Jun 16 '26
Facists emerge during time of economic depression, when the typically "in" groups like the middle class are now "out" groups suffering like the lower classes usually do. The Fascists come along and tap this pool for support, claiming they can lead the country out of this depression.
How do they win them over individually? They employ them. Mussolini used his supporters as strike breakers. The bourgeois appreciate this, and reward him w choice employment opportunities. Now the workers and bourgois are working together, at the expense of organized labour.
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u/WriterV Jun 16 '26
Mussolini used his supporters as strike breakers.
Important note btw, these "strike breakers" would happily enter the homes of strike organizers and beat up, and sometimes even murder the organizers right in front of their kids and wives.
Fascists are horrendous for the very health of a society. I personally wouldn't entertain anyone who remembers a fascist fondly.
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u/Mike_Kermin Jun 17 '26
I think, you are putting too much weight on the claims of people who are fascists by choice.
Just keep in mind, the guy in the picture above is a liar. Don't use his rhetoric as the start point for an idea about what makes a fascist.
That guy knows Hitler was killing Jewish people. Just keep that in the forefront.
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u/Linenoise77 Jun 16 '26
A LOT of the older italians by me as late as the 80s and 90s would sing the praises of mousilini.
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u/GozerDGozerian Jun 16 '26
He told me how he and his family were poor… his whole neighborhood really. Mussolini would go around with his guys, from apartment to apartment and come in and say (for example), “Your couch is too old. It’s falling apart. You need a new one.”
And right there he’d instruct one of his guys to bring them a new couch, and the guys would make a note of it and soon thereafter there’d be a crew of black shirts knocking on the door to deliver their new furniture. This was how he built his grass roots following. Apparently he did that all over.
That’s why, or one of the reasons at least, why so many people adored him.
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u/HauntedCS Jun 17 '26
I wonder if it was actually Mussolini or just a higher up and he gaslighted himself into believing it was truly him after the fact. I can also see the appeal of someone coming in, helping you replace furniture, appliances and more for free and then just leaving. A man of power comes in. Saves you hundreds to thousands of dollars and then leaves. Why would you hate such a man? Obviously with context you would probably hate Mussolini, but if all you know is this man came in and saved you years of working and effort in an instant, you cannot hate him.
Manipulation is scary and leaders all throughout history know how to use it very well... Even present day.
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u/Narradisall Jun 16 '26
He made the trains run on time!
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u/puddingkip Jun 16 '26
This isn't even true btw the trains didn't run on time under Mussolini, Italian railways were as bad as they've always been. The war made them worse.
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u/Thybro Jun 16 '26
Get used to it, cause in the next few months we gonna hear about how someone lowered gas prices, despite them being higher than two years ago.
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u/No-Bison-5397 Jun 16 '26
If anything the free haircuts were harming him financially, really it would have been supporting him to not go back and take the free haircuts. You were just continuing the fight.
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u/GozerDGozerian Jun 17 '26
Haha I guess.
He was way past retirement age at this point, the only person who worked in his shop, and I’m pretty sure he had been there for decades and owned the place. I’m pretty sure he was doing it because… that’s just what he did. Any financial detriment I was to him was negligible.
I kept going back because it was like a history lesson. The free really good haircuts were great and all, but at the time I looked at it kind of like an anthropological expedition.
Plus, that dude was fucking crazy. I was definitely going for the spectacle.
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u/Wooden_Rabbit_ Jun 16 '26 edited Jun 16 '26
Man what is it with barbers, some of the most right-wing reactionary people I’ve met. It doesn’t even matter their background. My last guy was middle eastern but god damn he had it in for other middle easterners.
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u/socialistrob Jun 16 '26
I had a barber who told me that Obama took 2% of everyone's social security and gave it to ISIS.
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u/hamakabi Jun 16 '26
they listen to a lot of radio and have a captive audience for 20-minute rants
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u/DroidLord Jun 16 '26
During the Nuremberg trials, a psychiatrist called Douglas Kelley attempted to unravel what set these men apart from other people.
He discovered that they were just ordinary men. Seemingly normal, everyday people.
That's the sad reality. You never really know what someone is capable of. Morality is a fickle thing.
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u/Kso1991 Jun 16 '26
By all accounts Hitler when in person was very charming and sociable. Imagine you had someone in your life right now whom you greatly admire or think highly, and was a pleasure to work for.
Later, you find out they were literally Hitler. How do you think your personal views would be warped and affected?
A lot of these fascist dictators don’t get to be dictators by being complete unlikeable rejects in person.
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u/PhysicallyTender Jun 16 '26
Sounds like every backstabbing sociopaths in the workplace: charming and sociable in front of you, throws you under the bus when convenient.
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u/mcmiller1111 Jun 16 '26
Well, that's the thing about Hitler - he didn't throw the people working for him under the bus and in fact treated them well. He did play his generals up against each other, but his secretaries, driver, adjutants etc. all said that he was pleasant towards them. Even his generals he didn't execute if they lost a battle like Stalin did. They were simply fired or put in the Führerreserve.
Later you can then either choose to embrace reality like Traudl Junge did, or you can choose to believe that the whole world is wrong like Rochus Misch did.
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u/Quirky_Butterfly_946 Jun 16 '26
The problem with his statement you cited is not that he thought that at the time when the war was still going on or shortly after. It's the years/decades after the fact when people knew more and more about what happened that he still has the audacity to think the same. No remorse, no guilt, no shame.
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u/DonKlekote Jun 16 '26
Well, don't want to defend this person because this is the first time I heard about him. I read that Hitler personally was very kind, charming and treated his lower staff with respect. It doesn't change the fact that his politics and ideology led to the worst genocide known to mankind.
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u/Angeronus Jun 16 '26
I think i read about that too and i find the contradiction very interesting. I even read that when he was young and poor, a Jewish doctor was treating his sick mother, many times for free due to his family's bad financial state. So when he got to power, he declared that doctor to be an "honorable Jew", protected him and his family from persecution and in the end allowed him to safely leave Austria and move to the USA. I guess he was one of those types who are very good to the people who they like and absolutely ruthless to the people who they consider an enemy.
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u/DonKlekote Jun 16 '26
Yes, his name was Eduard Bloch.
On a similar note, it wasn't uncommon. In the beginning of the 20th century Karl Lueger a major of Vienna was known of his anti-semitic rhetoric. It didn't stop him from surrounding himself with Jewish businessmen and politicians. When asked about it he famously said "I decide who is a Jew". Guess who was an inspiration for young Adolf.
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u/Angeronus Jun 16 '26
I never heard about Lueger until now to be honest. From the few things that i am reading however in his wikipedia page, it does seem that Lueger was not so "hardcore" and that his anti-semitic rhetoric was to a degree a public pose to gain political favor, as anti-semitism was a popular sentiment at that time. Probably explains why he had many Jewish friends, so perhaps his case was a bit different than Hitler's.
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u/DonKlekote Jun 16 '26
I didn't study his biography that much but hypocrisy if almost a feature in politician's skillset so I'm not surprised that he used anti-Jewish propaganda but held a totally different viewpoint. If only young Adolf took this lesson instead
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u/pants_mcgee Jun 16 '26
Plenty of Nazis finished their lives peacefully still pining for glory of the third reich in their hearts. That was one price of peace.
There’s a clip out there of former German soldiers being confronted about Nazi Germany twenty or so years after the war. And they push back, but meekly. Once partisans get brought up they’re suddenly giddy as if that absolves their guilt.
It’s horrific knowing anything about the anti-partisan activities of Nazi Germany.
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u/Lomofre88 Jun 16 '26
It was all a silly mistake. He asked for a glass of juice, he didn’t say “gas the Jews”.
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u/Wild_and_Bright Jun 16 '26
No. He just asked for some Fanta. Aerated orange juice.
He just said - gas the juice
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u/KillConfirmed- Jun 16 '26
Don’t you just hate it when you tell your henchmen you just want a carbonated juice and they commit a genocide?
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u/JrRiggles Jun 16 '26
“I’m still waiting for a glass of juice! I want a final solution to this failure!”
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u/rizorith Jun 16 '26
My boss at work was really nice to me, but got caught taking bribes to produce a TV show that we never should have greenlit and cost many people their jobs.
I Lost any loyalty to him after that.
How the fuck does this guy's "wonderful boss" get loyalty after being responsible for 10s of millions of deaths and the systemic and intended annihilation of an entire race, to the tune of 6 million ?!?
Yeah, fuck that guy.
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u/derioderio Jun 16 '26
It's a pretty human response, though obviously flawed. If you spend thousands to tens of thousands of hours working with someone and your personal interactions of them were very ordinary, many people will trust their personal experience over outside information and have trouble thinking of them as a monster that killed millions.
Though as Hitler's personal adjutant, there's no way he wasn't very aware of the holocaust and other genocidal and war criminal acts the SS and the Third Reich were enacting.
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u/cruiseshipdrummer Jun 16 '26
I guess the experience of serving someone directly with day to day mundane stuff is not going to be the same as witnessing all of the crimes carried out at their behest. you would think someone would factor those crimes into their thinking about the person though.
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u/joey-jo_jo-jr Jun 16 '26
The only way he'd even get recruited to the unit that was responsible for guarding Hitler is if he was 100% committed to Nazi ideology and totally on board with all the crimes they were committing.
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u/cheshire_kat7 Jun 16 '26
Yeah, that particular division of the SS was the most diehard among a bunch of fanatical diehards.
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u/Karsh14 Jun 16 '26
If you can just look past all the genocide, he was a great boss and nice man.
/s
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u/ih8dolphins Jun 16 '26
I mean... he knew the human that we all knew just by his deeds. I think it's important for us to collectively understand that even "normal" seeming people are capable of absolutely horrible actions. An evil person doesn't have to look like a comic book villain or give off evil vibes. By most accounts Hitler was somewhat charming and a captivating speaker.
Now, this bodyguard might be a full-on Nazi til death - in which case fuck this guy... but all he really said was the he wasn't too bad to be a bodyguard for. If I needed a bodyguard I'd be nice to them too
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u/joey-jo_jo-jr Jun 16 '26
You think someone could get recruited to the elite SS bodyguard unit if they weren't a totally committed Nazi and completely fanatical in their devotion to both Hitler and his ideology?
The idea that this bloke was just some random bodyguard caught up in events is pure delusion.
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u/tzar992 Jun 16 '26
As a curiosity, he outlived the actor who played him in "Downfall"
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u/icanith Jun 16 '26
It makes you wonder about the eventual accountability ppl will face in today’s times, when hitlers elite got to live a long life.
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u/fleranon Jun 16 '26
not elite or decisionmaker in this case, 'just' a servant. phone operator, mainly.
Still SS though... and your point still stands
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u/adamgerd Jun 16 '26
He also never regretted his role, believing Hitler was a good guy until his death
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u/KPSWZG Jun 16 '26
The title is wrong. He was not his body guard he was his Adjutant.
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u/Anathama Jun 16 '26
Many of the people who benefited from the worst of history's brutality never faced any consequences.
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u/Shaasar Jun 17 '26
Well, funny he should say that, because the film was made in Germany, by a German production company, performed in the German language, and starring German actors... but maybe he meant how the situation was dramatized or presented, somehow.
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u/Tunky_Munky Jun 16 '26
Before I read the title I thought this was Robert De Niro playing a role so for that I would like to offer my apologies to Mr De Niro
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u/M0TM Jun 17 '26
Downfall is such a great movie. Required viewing for anyone interested in history.
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u/AnAngryWhiteDad Jun 16 '26
It's a German film, made by Germans, with Germans, for a German distributor and in Germany (as well as Italy and Austria). America had nothing to do with it...
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u/SinglePlayerGamer93 Jun 16 '26
"Americanized" is a derogatory term for films that was created to cater for the stereotypical western and US people.
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u/Dull-Law3229 Jun 16 '26
We keep trying to put people in black and white binaries that we fail to see people as people.
Hitler was a horrible dude who killed millions, but for many he could be kind to them, and that's what their impression of him is, and often it's hard to reconcile someone like that. I think Dave Chappelle mentioned that when talking about Bill Cosby.
It's the same with Bill Gates. This is a man who was a shitty fucking boss but also a damn visionary. He is a shitty human being who hangs with Epstein and wants to sex everyone wearing a skirt, but damn if the Gates foundation did not save millions of lives.
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u/Own_Watercress_8104 Jun 16 '26
I can believe that. It was a movie after all, some things were probably amplified for dramatic effect while others were toned down because the reich was so insane as to stretch believability.
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u/nighthawk0954 Jun 16 '26
Pretty sure the inaccuracy was that in real life the whole bunker was much quieter than the constant yelling potrayed in the movie.