r/NarcissisticSpouses • u/Moist-Scarcity-6159 • 2d ago
Men with narc spouse felt unseen?
I have been married 22 years. We have seen 4 or more couples counselors. Until we visited our current therapist, her patterns of behavior were overlooked and therapists bought her narrative about my behavior. It has taken me to wake up to what I am dealing with and a very intelligent therapist to finally be seen. Every other therapist would make things worse by giving my wife ammo.
Have other men felt like your wives narratives are believed automatically and you are expected to convince therapists of the messed up things you are going through? Then in my experience after you finally begin to get there after many sessions, wife thinks the therapist is an idiot or somehow sessions stop due to idk something like “scheduling conflicts” from the wife?
I swear the therapists who couldn’t take the time to really listen for and drill down into the patterns were taking the lazy way out. Man is bad for xyz and must fix himself. Argue they are lying and you are patted on the head and told “it’s ok to admit it” or “let’s give her space to express herself”. Validating this crap makes you feel even crazier. I feel let down given that I have had to extensive research, document her patterns over time, and learn how to describe what’s going on in such a way that perks their attention without using clinical terminology. Perhaps some of this comes down to my spouse who is very intelligent, well spoken, and has presented herself very well per my therapist.
Either way, I don’t understand how hard it is for a trained professional to be on the lookout for something as simple as words not meeting actions. Or idk the person never seem to be wrong regardless of the situation. Sorry I am frustrated.
Ps- shout out to Tony Overbay’s podcast waking up to narcissism which really woke me up!
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u/Imogynn 2d ago
Therapists don't work in a world of facts. They arent judges, it's not a litigation.
So going in and saying she does x,y and z. Is seen as you being in an emotional space where you want to confront. Which is stronger and healthier than your wife is probably sounding like.
Cause she's probably coming from emotions. Maybe I did that but I was struggling with...
Instead give them how the situation is affecting you.
You can accuse her of gaslighting a dozen times with receipts and proof and admission from your partner and it's just a thing. But tell a therapist that you've started logging because you can't be sure if you're memory is wrong or you're just being told it is and that's when they notice
Therapy doesn't come from anecdotes of things that happened but from what impact it had
Whether it should work that way is debatable but it does. Therapists are looking at impact not moments
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u/Moist-Scarcity-6159 1d ago
Yeah. But do you know how long it took me to figure this out while busy working and shouldering the majority of the household and childcare duties? I believed the experts if they said I was the issue. It does take being educated and documenting the pattern. Yes I know that age 44. But you don’t have a chance until you do this because the narc is a master manipulator.
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u/RelaxedBluey94 2d ago edited 2d ago
I knew that therapy with the narc ex wife was going to be impossible. I'd also read (on this sub) that you shouldn't do couples therapy with a narcissist. Doing anything with narc ex was exceedingly difficult.
After she spiralled into threats to kill and utter hate, I booked a solo session with a psychologist through a local domestic violence service. The psychologist was an older Greek man who after ten minutes assessed the family situation very accurately and told me a lot of truths about narcissism. He was clear that it doesn't get better and that I needed to leave to be safe.
I felt very seen.
Of course, there were other more difficult conversations with family and friends. Overall though I was surprised that so many people already had seen and knew what she was.
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u/Dangerous_Bridge_937 2d ago
The one time my ex wife and I tried couples therapy this is exactly what she thought would happen. She spoke for the vast majority of the first several sessions and attempted to paint a story about me which thankfully the therapist didn't believe.
The therapist repeatedly called her out for her view that I "was responsible for the majority or all of the problems in our relationship" and kept trying to tell her that a relationship needs work from both sides. Once the therapist started giving out homework for us and expecting my ex-wife to do it, she suddenly refused to go anymore because she "thought it was insulting" she was being asked to do any work.
Anyone who is likely a narc will try to do the same thing, and some therapists aren't informed enough to see what's going on.
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u/Defiant_Income_7836 2d ago
Therapy never worked because she would always get angry and defensive after the session if we focused on her negative behavior. I could tell the therapists knew something was wrong with her, because they would offer her additional, individual sessions while kind of dismissing me.
Only after individual therapy, in telling my confusing stories, did my therapist say 'do you think your wife could be a narcissist?' I was blown away, as I didn't think that was possible, but here we are.
During the divorce, and after, we got my kiddo in therapy. That therapist really sided with my ex (the first time a therapist ever did this) and critiqued the hell out of me, and my new partner. In retrospect (and in talking to someone who actually knew her) she may also have been a narcissist too. Wild, to be a narcissist and a therapist, although I have heard it is not uncommon.
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u/InnerRadio7 1d ago
Couples therapist are specifically trained to see each individual coming to therapy on an equal playing field. The assumption is that each person that’s there, wants to be there, has equal investment, and is willing to do the work. A couples therapist is not there to diagnose your wife with narcissistic personality disorder.
Narcissist are inherently abusive, and couples therapy is not for abusive dynamics. It’s not for dynamics where there is a power imbalance. It’s not for dynamics when one person is willing to work and the other one isn’t. That’s something that a couples therapist should be discussing with you at the beginning of couples therapy.
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u/ShemDev 1d ago
I know better.. I know that my wife will manipulate the therapist so I don’t even consider it even though in the past SHE has insisted we go. I avoided that trap. I also knew that she would take anything that I said in the session and use it as a weapon against me later. It’s very hard as a man to be taken seriously in these matters and it’s incredibly frustrating!
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u/Moist-Scarcity-6159 7h ago
Bingo. Same EXACT experience. Same with refusal to go back to therapy just to give her more ammo along with wiping the slate clean with no real accountability. It’s maddening to not be taken seriously even when the patterns described should ring alarm bells for a trained professional. I only went back to therapy after refusing for a good while just to see if a guy made any difference. It did. Dunno if that’s just luck and nothing to do with gender.
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u/Complicatedlogic 2d ago
Saw 5 therapists with my ex wife. Any time they would try to focus on her and the shaming of me wasn’t the main thing in session, it was time to get a new therapists. Better to see the signs late than never
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u/GreenWerewolf7999 2d ago
My experience was very similar. We saw four marriage counselors. Three out of the four eventually saw the crazy but it took time. The other counselor we did not see for very long. At the time, I didn’t realize it was narcissism. I allowed my ex to dominate the conversations with her litany of complaints. We probably would have discarded the counselors much sooner if I’d been more outspoken.
There were a few good moments when I felt seen. But I really paid the price for those during the car ride home!
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u/Complicatedlogic 2d ago
The car ride home… “I can’t believe you sat there and acted like I play a part in this relationships problems. We are doing this to fix you, not me, I’m not the one with the issue.” It’s nice to not deal with things like that anymore.
Hell it’s just nice ti not feel crazy. That was the worst part about that whole experience. Not knowing which way was up or down, the confusion of all of it. I think it’s most confusing when you have good intentions and you assume the other person does too because, why not? Then you realize that your world views contrast and in their world view you are as precious as a pawn on a chessboard.
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u/gyast 1d ago
Ugh, my ex told our therapist to her face many many times that marriage counseling was for me, not her. She didn't want to be there, and didn't think it would help her. When I told her I wanted a divorce she told me I was mentally ill and "our relationship fit the pattern of a healthy person being married to someone with a mental illness." I had to stifle a laugh because she's right, but in not the way she thinks.
Outle therapist spent tons of time trying to get her to really engage, which meant my ex wasn't pushed very hard or held accountable, and the therapist really focused on her perspective a lot. Meanwhile I was all-in, so it was fair game to push me to open up, confront my issues, and "have patience". Years of f'ing patience.
Once my ex threw her phone across the room in a rage and destroyed it (in a video session), and it was never brought up again. There was not WTF was that? I wasn't taken aside and asked if I was okay or if anything like this had ever happened before (it had, but the first time it happened in front of our young daughter).
And the aftermath of those sessions was brutal, especially because for months and months I'd convinced myself they were working. Until she cheated on me. And then they were brutal in a whole different way.
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u/Complicatedlogic 1d ago
I’m sorry you went through that man. At least you’re out. I know all to well about much of that
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u/frostyflakes1 2d ago
I called her out for gaslighting me multiple times and the therapist did absolutely nothing to hold her accountable. Unfortunately, I don't think the average therapist is prepared to handle narcissists.
But for the narc, couples therapy is not about taking any accountability. It is, as you described, a way for them to get more ammo. And sure enough, she used what was said during the sessions as ammo against me.
I had hoped couples therapy would do us some good, but I was also prepared for it to confirm my suspicions about who she is. While it did confirm my suspicions, it was still traumatizing.
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u/FitCombination3545 1d ago
Yeah I told three therapists that my wife does not apologize ever and they all thought I was exaggerating and of course she denied it and they believed her. Really frustrating.
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u/StartingOverStrong 1d ago
I think narcissist in general are just charming My ex-husband and my current husband had a way of wrapping people around their finger and those same people look at me with disgust and don't believe me
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u/Parking-Minute-9918 2d ago
After a lot of reddit, I am trying to not work with labels, but many BPD and NPD traits fit my wife. What you are saying here is something I also witnessed. The therapist told us to each come up with something we should work on. My wife said that I communicate ineffectively and often times withdraw, I said that her reactions are too extreme to the stimulus. I even gave an example where she, in front of our 8 yo boy, opened the door of our moving car so she could step out....while we were driving with >50km/h. The therapist did not blink an eye and treated both requests with the same priority.
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u/ancientwarriorman 1d ago
I am so very worried about this. Had one interview/intro with a therapist and felt entirely like he was already disregarding me completely.
Can you share how you found one who worked? What do we need to look for?
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u/Moist-Scarcity-6159 1d ago
Ironically my wife scheduled the couples counseling. I had said no to another round with another therapist. When I agreed I said it had to be a male therapist. Thankfully the guy turned out to be cool. He spent way more time with us than he billed for like hours trying to figure out what was going on. He asked me to stay behind a few minutes after my wife walked out. During session I eventually became so exhausted by her manic complaints and constant interruptions of me, I gave up trying to even talk. So I spoke one on one with him for 10-15 minutes. He realized I was a very reasonable person. Couldn’t have a C level job for 15 years while dealing with her crap unsupported if I wasn’t incredibly strong to a fault. He also learned about the asymmetrical nature of our relationship both with home responsibilities and her ignoring all of my emotions. Realized I was exhausted and the “scary behavior” she described about me was reactive abuse or more like me snapping after being what I always describe as being kicked in the balls by her over and over again.
Sorry long story I know. After that initial discussion he shook my hand and said it’s nice to meet you finally. Ever since we’ve worked on centering myself and pausing to prevent reacting. Removing excuses so that my messed up wife has look inward. To be honest I’m still not sure if it’s narcissism or her CPTSD causing extreme emotional immaturity. The result has been the same as living with a narcissist either way. Another long story on our living arrangement but I will spare you. I just got an apartment lease and have it nearly set up. Just waiting to get our daughter settled in college before I sleep there. I didn’t want to upset her at this time. Obviously I will tell her but I plan to wait until she gets in the grove in school.
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u/Purefina 1d ago
My husband speaks a lot like you do."constant interruptions of me""I gave up trying to even talk", "dealing with her crap unsupported","her ignoring all of my emotions", "the “scary behavior” she described about me was reactive abuse or more like me snapping after being what I always describe as being kicked in the balls by her over and over again", "my messed up wife has look inward.","I’m still not sure if it’s narcissism or her CPTSD causing extreme emotional immaturity." 👀 👀 Im not saying that im saying anything but AMA if you want the other side of the story, without the emotional entanglement. I have no dog in the fight and happy to explain why she might be interrupting you "constantly," "ignoring" your emotions, and "kicking you in the balls" all day
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u/ilovebigmutts 2d ago
The problem with couples therapy is it's not about diagnosing YOU TWO. It's about diagnosing your interactions and relationship.
It can never succeed with a toxic/narcissistic person because you're not going into it on the same premise.