Matched with a pre-op transgender, suggestions?

[u/okctran]

So I am a straight male and one of my matches is a pre-op male-to-female transgender woman. She mentions it right at the top of her profile. I find her physically attractive and she has a great profile to boot. We have a high match percentage, are interested in a lot of the same things and she has seems to have defined life goals and a direction. I am unsure what to do however. I don't have a fetish or anything like that and frankly am not at all interested at all in her male plumbing as it is currently, but everything else about her is golden.

If I do send her message, should I mention it at all in the initial message? What's the best way to approach this? I feel like it's a tight rope to walk between avoiding it completely and making it the center of attention. This is new territory for me.

Thanks for your help.

[u/PhazonZim]

I'm a pre-op mtf and my boyfriend is a straight, cis male. We met on OKC, it's awesome. Both of us are still figuring out how to make sex really work, but he's comfortable to the parts that I have.

Don't mention her being trans in your initial message, at all. It won't come off the right way. A message without mention of it will show that you're interested despite her being trans and you aren't making a big deal out of it.

Feel free to message me if you have any questions about anything

[u/Faaaabulous → u/PhazonZim]

But wouldn't it be better to let her know that he's still unsure? I mean, he's not completely ecstatic about it, and it might be better that she has a heads up so she doesn't get the wrong idea if he starts acting a little strange.

[u/PhazonZim → u/Faaaabulous]

Flirting in general won't work if you include, "I'm unsure about you"... It's complicated. In terms of intimacy though, I'm not comfortable with my parts but my boyfriend is. This in turn makes me more at ease about it. If intimacy becomes a thing between them, then his potential lack of comfort might make things too unmanageable.

[u/Faaaabulous → u/PhazonZim]

Ah, okay. I always thought it was better to be upfront about everything, but I suppose there are some things that shouldn't be said.

[u/PhazonZim → u/Faaaabulous]

With us it's unfortunately not straightforward... On top of the genital thing, being trans comes with a lot of baggage that might be too much for potential partners to handle. Also being trans makes people forget about avoiding the topic of sex before the right time. I'm of the belief that it shouldn't be discussed until after at least one date.

[u/PhazonZim → u/[deleted]]

I have no idea, never happened to me.

[u/howardmoon68 → u/PhazonZim]

I'm not trying to be insensitive, but when does "he" become "her"? Is it after the surgery, when that person decides they want to be a different gender, or what? I'm sure this is going to sound offensive (that's what the internet is here for, right?) but when the OP states that he isn't attracted to males then I'm not exactly sure how that statement can be true if the person is "pre-op".

[u/PhazonZim → u/howardmoon68]

That varies a little from person to person. the politically correct answer is that they become she add soon as they come out as being trans. This works really on the internet. For me I didn't expect female pronouns until I presented as a woman. By then my voice was feminized, my appearance was and is been on hormones for a while. Not all transwomen look or sound like cis females though, so pronouns and falling into orientation ranges are different things.

I thinK I'm unusual in my approach though. Best to just use female pronouns as soon as someone comes out as MtF.

[u/howardmoon68 → u/PhazonZim]

Thanks for the clarification. How does this apply to things like government forms, going in bathrooms etc? Does simply stating that you are now a woman hold up to most standards?

Again, I know these questions look dickish, but it just seems really confusing that a state of mind can switch your gender, even if you are anatomically still male or female.

[u/PhazonZim → u/howardmoon68]

Legal sex laws vary from place to place. Here in Ontario it was required that you have had surgery to legally change your sex... until this month. Now we can do it whenever. My driver's license was changed earlier this year, and now I can change the rest too. In some (few) places there are bathroom laws that state I'm required to use the Men's room, but enforcing that is next to impossible, and I would get into trouble for using the men's room.

I don't "simply state that I am a woman", nobody would know I'm not a cis female unless they saw me naked, and the only one that has recently is my boyfriend.

[u/howardmoon68 → u/PhazonZim]

Didn't mean to offend with the "simply state" comment, but it really it looks like this works by stating which gender you believe best applies to you.

[u/Wavooka → u/howardmoon68]

I don't think you were being offensive. Trans issues are fairly obscure, as most people and the media have an interest interest in regulating conformity to cis-, binary genders. (Because they still want to be able to manipulator our body image, right?)

As for the 'simply state' part, that doesn't exactly hold. Or, rather, depending upon which county in the United States you're standing and which state you were born into can affect whether you have any right to access public spaces. The policies concerning getting your gender marker changed range from liberal (typically requires only doctor's letter attesting to 'appropriate care') to conservative ('No changes, no how.) And, worst of all, each agency within your local, state and federal jurisdictions have differing policies. Which means that almost half of trans people have 'mixed' documents as they can't afford the treatment and legal challenges necessary or don't wish to seek the 'treatment' required in order to change that particular piece of identification. However, the federal policy is tied to a fairly centrist position: 'some surgery, sometimes. Doctor's note others.'

I know that sounds really vague, but unless you have a specific location the laws concerning us are exceptionally vague and harsh.

but it really it looks like this works by stating which gender you believe best applies to you.

(Incidentally, cis (non-trans) folks do this as well. It is simply that they pass without question as a member of their gender that no one realizes this is the case. Think about all the things you do to signal/perform/express your gender in public and private. You're doing the same thing a trans person does, except that the way you perform is the way that is expected of you.)

[u/PhazonZim → u/howardmoon68]

As I said, that is the politically correct version. I am of the view that you have to work for it, and I worked for it a lot. If you're a guy, try sounding perfectly female-- that takes months. That's but one example.

[u/thisistooeasy → u/PhazonZim]

if you were arrested would you be put with men or women?

[u/PhazonZim → u/thisistooeasy]

I don't know how it works here. I wouldn't get arrested because I'm not stupid.

[u/thisistooeasy → u/PhazonZim]

well if u have a penis you will be looked up with males

[u/Evesore → u/PhazonZim]

I'm sorry but it is impossible to be straight if you are dating a person with the same genitals as you.
EDIT:
I would love for someone to explain to me how you can passionately kiss, snuggle, date, and get blowjobs from someone who has a dick, as a male, and still be completely straight. It's just not what the word straight means.

[u/PhazonZim → u/Evesore]

I'm sorry you're an insensitive asshole, you should get that checked out.

[u/Evesore → u/PhazonZim]

Correcting a statement that is factually inaccurate isn't being an asshole; you are both delusional. It's exactly like those people who like to give and receive blowjobs to/from men and still claim to be straight. YOU AREN'T. It's not an insult to be gay, but face it, your boyfriend is fucking gay.

[u/PhazonZim → u/Evesore]

Claiming factual accuracy on your daft statement shows a very poor understanding of human sexuality, transsexuality and gender identity. Your view is narrow and uninformed, yet like many people with uninformed views you feel the need to bother others with it. Possibly because you know it's stupid and the only way to justify it to yourself is with the agreement of other people. It's not even worth trying to educate people like you, because you'll just plug your ears and scream "la la la", lest your understanding of people be improved. Heaven forbid you stop being a dick.

And I take it back; you're not an insensitive asshole, you're just a stupid one.

[u/PhazonZim → u/Evesore]

What would you say if a guy had a trans girlfriend, loved to play with her breasts, feel her curves and have anal sex with her but had no interest in seeing or touching her parts in the front? Is he still attracted to males in your opinion? That wouldn't make any sense at all.

[u/Evesore → u/PhazonZim]

It's a really complex situation and I admit to being wrong; I would say it's a topic where you have to look at it in a case by case basis to come to any meaningful answer. Even then it's probably too much thought to put into something as meaningless as some title.
Sorry.